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2014/09/05 21:04:10
Subject: Zoe Quinn and the five guys; corruption in video game journalism
I find it funny that Jim Sterling is siding with the Journalists when he made this video a month ago (And this thing happened two-three weeks ago, so it's immediately after it XD)
As always with Jimquisition, some very NSFW language.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/09/05 21:04:15
I've never feared Death or Dying. I've only feared never Trying.
2014/09/05 21:05:12
Subject: Re:Zoe Quinn and the five guys; corruption in video game journalism
I'd say we don't need any publishers, reviewers, or com mentors. All we need is a open forum like amazon has. Everyone can rate a new game and comment on a game. The rating of the game will be more of a consensus of the people who played the game, instead of a few people who may be "less than unbiased."
I'd say we don't need any publishers, reviewers, or com mentors. All we need is a open forum like amazon has. Everyone can rate a new game and comment on a game. The rating of the game will be more of a consensus of the people who played the game, instead of a few people who may be "less than unbiased."
So...metacritic / steam comments?
If those are web sites? yes. all the good ideas have already been done
I do know steam, I just don't use it. Never heard of metacritic before.
2014/09/05 21:21:00
Subject: Re:Zoe Quinn and the five guys; corruption in video game journalism
The consumer aggregate score is the only honest review you can find. I hope Metacritic takes more steps to ensure that score can't be fethed with by PR departments.
In other news, I didn't know what a misogynist slime Joss Whedon was! Thanks Anita!
I beg of you sarge let me lead the charge when the battle lines are drawn
Lemme at least leave a good hoof beat they'll remember loud and long
About that...have Publishers and Developers started using quotes from independent and amateur youtube reviewers and commentators like TotalBiscuit on their boxes and to advertise, rather than the traditional gaming sites like Kotaku and IGN? I imagine that would be quite a snub.
I hope not; We need Game devs to have both sides. While TotalBiscuit is one of the more professional ones (that I've seen) almost all Youtube Gamers are a little too "Brodudeski" in my opinion. Not that there is anything wrong with that, just that we need them to have people whose job it is to analyze games and are scrutinized by the masses, and their livelyhood is based around reviewing games. Kind of like......
Well gak....
I'd say we don't need any publishers, reviewers, or com mentors. All we need is a open forum like amazon has. Everyone can rate a new game and comment on a game. The rating of the game will be more of a consensus of the people who played the game, instead of a few people who may be "less than unbiased."
In a perfect world we wouldn't need publishers.
If people bought only good games, and ignored the bad ones yeah it would work.
But we need publishers, commentators and reviewers. We need Professional Unbiased Journalists. Who are from the industry. And know what they are talking about. Not people that play games for a living. We need Game Developers. Former designers being the journalists. Not the idiots.
From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war.
2014/09/05 21:53:04
Subject: Re:Zoe Quinn and the five guys; corruption in video game journalism
KalashnikovMarine wrote: The consumer aggregate score is the only honest review you can find. I hope Metacritic takes more steps to ensure that score can't be fethed with by PR departments.
In other news, I didn't know what a misogynist slime Joss Whedon was! Thanks Anita!
Thunderfoot is really getting bad and rambling, that video could have been 1/2 it's length.
Also Firefly sucked, there's a reason it only lasted one season.
2014/09/05 22:02:45
Subject: Re:Zoe Quinn and the five guys; corruption in video game journalism
KalashnikovMarine wrote: The consumer aggregate score is the only honest review you can find. I hope Metacritic takes more steps to ensure that score can't be fethed with by PR departments.
In other news, I didn't know what a misogynist slime Joss Whedon was! Thanks Anita!
Thunderfoot is really getting bad and rambling, that video could have been 1/2 it's length.
Also Firefly sucked, there's a reason it only lasted one season.
Your name is quite like sounding what is coming after you.
I am only kidding though. It was a great series.
But I agree thunderfoot is quite rambly at times. I watched his videos, and thought it was being a parody of Antia, I think that was the goal of it being so long, because Antia is showing the same point over and over again. It took it as a joke.
From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war.
2014/09/05 22:06:25
Subject: Zoe Quinn and the five guys; corruption in video game journalism
Sigvatr wrote: Anita looks a lot better with open, long hair (e.g. 21:03).
Thats sexist!
(I would disagree, she looks better with a pony tail.)
But thats beside the point. I disagree largely with alot of her reasons about damsels in distress. And you know ignoring the very strong women in gaming. Where there are quite a few female characters that er fantastic and are not drawn to.
There are a bunch of things though I do have to say.
The biggest being the idiots that I see on the twitter, who keep calling us idiots.
:(
From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war.
2014/09/05 22:16:43
Subject: Zoe Quinn and the five guys; corruption in video game journalism
H.B.M.C. wrote: There are still people going "No! You're only annoyed because this time it was a woman!".
That particular line of argument incenses my wife no end. I can't imagine why.
Some of the shield retorts are even more horrific, getting cries of "Race traitor, Uncle Toms" and so much awful sexism/insults towards everything that "Isn't" white and straight.
Social Justice indeed.
I think at this point we can agree that SJWs are insane. They seem to think that racism, sexism and misandry is okay, as long as its targeting white straight men. It boggles the mind.
I have a working theory on SJWs. What is the end game? Extremely politically correct docile genderless amorphous blobs. Its basic psyche, that's projection, they cannot deal with how the world treats them, so instead of adapting they blame the world for their own problems.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/09/05 22:48:48
H.B.M.C. wrote: There are still people going "No! You're only annoyed because this time it was a woman!".
That particular line of argument incenses my wife no end. I can't imagine why.
Some of the shield retorts are even more horrific, getting cries of "Race traitor, Uncle Toms" and so much awful sexism/insults towards everything that "Isn't" white and straight.
Social Justice indeed.
I think at this point we can agree that SJWs are insane. They seem to think that racism, sexism and misandry is okay, as long as its targeting white straight men. It boggles the mind.
I have a working theory. What is the end game? Extremely politically correct docile genderless amorphous blobs. Its basic psyche, that's projection, they cannot deal with how the world treats them, so instead of adapting they blame the world for their own problems.
If they had a real plan with a clear goal, they wouldn't be focused on games. I think it's more of a mission statement, Complain about everything til someone gives me money, ie professional victim.
2014/09/05 22:53:02
Subject: Zoe Quinn and the five guys; corruption in video game journalism
If they had a real plan with a clear goal, they wouldn't be focused on games. I think it's more of a mission statement, Complain about everything til someone gives me money, ie professional victim.
No kidding, where were they 10 years ago when Jack Thompson was saying that games caused violence? Guess they only care when it involves women, which is sexist. Its funny how they cannot see their own hypocrisy.
And I can assure you there is nothing that can be construed as an insult in the OP.
I can see their point of view.
But I was introduced into the issue as more of the one who saw the potential to get my voice heard to get it out there. that the journalists should not be trusted.
I don't care what zoe quinn does. In fact I agree her game is actually okay. But not on par with a lot of games that just use simple mechanics and tell a beautiful story.
And boy does that forum swear quite a bit. Keep it G guys.
Ok so, since there's an official thread to discuss this gak, I guess I'll put my cards on the table.
I don't care about Zoe Quinn. If you search my post history, you'll see I gave Depression Quest a glowing review before the shitstorm landed, and I still stand by that. Regardless of whether Things are true or not, it was a game that personally resonated with me, and I respect her for making it.
What glued me personally to the "scandal" was the fact that it was being censored everywhere. I don't give a gak about people's personal lives, but censorship bothers me, ESPECIALLY when it seems to be politically motivated. I only started paying close attention to The Whole Thing when not only threads, but entire websites were getting taken down for the sin of even talking about the issue. As soon as I noticed the censorship of it on pretty much every gaming site ever, it became difficult for me to empathize with either side. Max Temkin was randomly accused of rape by some woman on facebook he knew in college, and immediately publicly denies it? Totally newsworthy, let's talk about how awful he is. Zoe Quinn, and holy gak, maybe the whole indie-game-scene might be engaging in unethical practices? How dare you even suggest such a thing, get off our site, you're banned. The double-standard just bothers me.
Quinn does not deserve to be harassed and anyone harassing her is an donkey-cave. But there's a fair number of non-donkey caves who have a legitimate concern about how this was, for a few weeks, forbidden ground that would get you banned from most gaming websites for even mentioning that it might be something worth talking about. I would assume most regular users of the internet are aware of The Streisand Effect, but apparently not. The "story" would have probably blown over in a week if not for the attempt to circle the wagons and censor it from the entire internet, which is inevitably doomed to fail.
Anyway, I'm not looking to start an argument, just my two cents on the whole deal.
This guy I agree with
From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war.
2014/09/05 23:19:18
Subject: Zoe Quinn and the five guys; corruption in video game journalism
Mechanical Crow wrote: I think at this point we can agree that SJWs are insane. They seem to think that racism, sexism and misandry is okay, as long as its targeting white straight men. It boggles the mind.
I have a working theory on SJWs. What is the end game? Extremely politically correct docile genderless amorphous blobs. Its basic psyche, that's projection, they cannot deal with how the world treats them, so instead of adapting they blame the world for their own problems.
Hey, do you want to know my theory about why this whole thing blew out of proportion? Sorry, it was just a rhetorical question . After the original Zoe Quinn story, a bunch of people were being misogynistic donkey-cave and a bunch of other people were raising legitimate question about corruption for game journalists. Some people answered to the misogyny of the donkey-caves by attacking everyone that was protesting on the issue. As an answer, the people that were protesting against the corruption started to retaliate by basically attacking everyone that was protesting against misogyny. Sure the journalists did play a role, but certainly there is also a big part of the escalation due to people perceiving, rightfully or not, that the retaliation to what other people said included them too.
"Our fantasy settings are grim and dark, but that is not a reflection of who we are or how we feel the real world should be. [...] We will continue to diversify the cast of characters we portray [...] so everyone can find representation and heroes they can relate to. [...] If [you don't feel the same way], you will not be missed"
https://twitter.com/WarComTeam/status/1268665798467432449/photo/1
2014/09/06 00:43:00
Subject: Re:Zoe Quinn and the five guys; corruption in video game journalism
And even then, a few people controlling the entire thing, really? Rather then competing on those points she's trying to do what she can to discredit the entire movement, attacking it simply.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/09/06 17:15:47
2014/09/06 17:14:51
Subject: Zoe Quinn and the five guys; corruption in video game journalism
I don't know, on one hand, you'd have to be pretty unstable, possibly actually crazy, have too much time on your hands, and be completely backed into a corner to fabricate that much crap.
Let me get this straight. There's this whole controversy surrounding a person named Zoe Quinn, and she thinks none of those chat rooms noticed her using her own name? That's just funny (PS. She was using her own name and they did notice her).
Further, she looks like a complete ass in most of those. Other than the very first one, none of those seem to be revealing anything Most seem like fairly mundane conversations about doxxing and various hack attacks, which we already know is happening and coming from both sides. Hell in one her ex actually seems to be refusing to give information because it'll be 'misused' and she accusing him of coaching them. There's one where 4chan is talking about cracking down on posts/comments that are negative/harrassing.
I fail to see the reverse conspiracy here. I do see Zoe Quinn is a very bad reader, and even worse at taking things out of context than DakkaDakka is
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/09/06 17:26:18
I just think it's funny she thinks these say anything we don't already know, or is revealing some kind of fabrication conspiracy (and /v/ is laughing at how they knew she was there the whole time. They literally trolled her in public, talked about it in public, and she apparently hasn't noticed).
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/09/06 17:29:06
Sigvatr wrote: Zoe Quinn is a notorious liar, lacking any sort of empathy, caring only for herself.
She has absolutely no credibility whatsoever.
Basically.
I wonder what psychological disease she has.
She is well. Completely above everything.
She is trying to get so involved into this. That you should do what lawyers usually say. Which is. "HIDE AND DUCK." Ignore it. Most of the criticisms aren't about her.
Its about the whole issue with the journalist. We don't care about the indie developer who slept with... A LOT OF PEOPLE.
From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war.
2014/09/06 17:32:57
Subject: Re:Zoe Quinn and the five guys; corruption in video game journalism
Zoë ʻTom-Kunʼ Quinn @TheQuinnspiracy wrote:I guess it's a good time to mention that I've been lurking in & recording 4chan's raid IRC channels for a few weeks
Zoë ʻTom-Kunʼ Quinn @TheQuinnspiracy wrote:they even made a bot that posts all of my tweets to the channel. Hi guys.
. After the original Zoe Quinn story, a bunch of people were being misogynistic donkey-cave and a bunch of other people were raising legitimate question about corruption for game journalists. Some people answered to the misogyny of the donkey-caves by attacking everyone that was protesting on the issue. As an answer, the people that were protesting against the corruption started to retaliate by basically attacking everyone that was protesting against misogyny. Sure the journalists did play a role, but certainly there is also a big part of the escalation due to people perceiving, rightfully or not, that the retaliation to what other people said included them too.
Most seem like fairly mundane conversations about doxxing and various hack attacks, which we already know is happening and coming from both sides. Hell in one her ex actually seems to be refusing to give information because it'll be 'misused' and she accusing him of coaching them. There's one where 4chan is talking about cracking down on posts/comments that are negative/harrassing.
