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Rules Q+A livestream!

https://live.kickstarter.com/soda-pop-miniatures/live-stream/q-and-a-with-lead-rules-designer-david-freeman

Not really any KS questions answered; this is more about why they streamlined the system and tweaked rules to favor offense.

EDIT: Whoa, bit of a bombshell around 40 minutes – they're planning on including cards for ALL models, including the Kingdom Death crossovers, the Penny Arcade models and the special edition metals. (Gah, I hope they re-release Ayu Beat.)

New relic knight up. Not a fan of the way she's holding her sword and how she seems to have no legs


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Looking at the RK KS and the Miniature market RK section, the 'special prices' listed under the RK KS is very close to the MM prices for some of the items.

Eg. Shattered sword questing knight is 12.79 on the MM site but 12 on the RK KS. What's more interesting is the MSRP cause RK is listing his MSRP as 20 dollars while on MM it's RRP is 15.95. The RRP for MM is correct though considering I've cross-referenced it with PP RRP and MM RRP so either ND is planning to jack up prices or they're messing with RRP

@sining, I live two miles from Miniaturemarket, I can tell you they don't do a huge markup on what they pay for on a lot of lines. They deal in volume. So them giving almost a 25% discount is almost normal for most things, which is about the 'normal' Kickstarter discount price you see. You just won't find the exclusives there.

I'm talking about RRP not Sales price. If you look at RRP, it's 15.95, and the sales price is discounted from there. However, on Sodapops KS page, RRP is 20 dollars for the same model and sale price is 12usd.

The question is WHY is the RRP so different on the KS page.
I've cross-checked the RRP for Privateer press stuff with PPs website and MMs website and they're identical. It's just Sodapops that's weird.

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Mewens wrote:
Rules Q+A livestream!

https://live.kickstarter.com/soda-pop-miniatures/live-stream/q-and-a-with-lead-rules-designer-david-freeman

Not really any KS questions answered; this is more about why they streamlined the system and tweaked rules to favor offense.

EDIT: Whoa, bit of a bombshell around 40 minutes – they're planning on including cards for ALL models, including the Kingdom Death crossovers, the Penny Arcade models and the special edition metals. (Gah, I hope they re-release Ayu Beat.)

Yeah- it sounds to me like they were trying to go as broad as possible in their definition of "Legacy Minis."

From the way he was talking, I thought it was possible that they might include the Candy with the huge soda cannon. But Kingdom Death Candy and Penny Arcade characters are definitely in.

That makes me very happy. Gabe and Tycho get to keep playing.


edit: deleted some off topic stuff.

 spiralingcadaver wrote:
...Why do some of the stretch goals say KS exclusive (and are free) but have MSRPs listed?

To tell you what a fantastic baaahgain you're getting.

So how many projects will Prodos be casting for? RK2, AvP2, and Vanguard, at least.

Something I learned from Alien Assimilation KS (four years and running) is to avoid companies running multiple projects. That's obviously a generality, but I'm not seeing a track record for Prodos that, say, CMON and Reaper has (not that some backers are satisfied with theirs, either).

ced1106 wrote:
So how many projects will Prodos be casting for? RK2, AvP2, and Vanguard, at least.

I believe that is pretty much it. There are still some small ones offs and smaller stuff, but I believe most of those were pushed out and delayed in some aspects. Oh they still have DemiGods which is supposed to be in casting currently but technically that isn't their project, that was an offer to save that KS... which could have been a great PR move, if they finished delivery of outstanding AvP.

Vanguard is finishing sculpting so probably in production with AvP2. There will be a few months before RK2 gets a pledge manager, finishes sculpting on everything and then is ready for production. So by that time, given how long it took for LOAD manufacturing, they should have completed the others. But that technically doesn't mean anything because I have no real idea of the size of the facilities or what the capacity is. From what we've seen though the UniCast production system is relatively faster than traditional methods which still meshes with my theory on how they are achieving what they are doing (previously discussed in the UniCast thread).

ced1106 wrote:

 spiralingcadaver wrote:
...Why do some of the stretch goals say KS exclusive (and are free) but have MSRPs listed?

To tell you what a fantastic baaahgain you're getting.

More like telling backers it's not KS exclusive, so don't complain when it shows up later...

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

ced1106 wrote:

 spiralingcadaver wrote:
...Why do some of the stretch goals say KS exclusive (and are free) but have MSRPs listed?

To tell you what a fantastic baaahgain you're getting.

More like telling backers it's not KS exclusive, so don't complain when it shows up later...

Or they allowed you to buy extras of that freebie, at that price.

IIRC, a number of RK1 backers were (very deservedly upset) with SPM over exclusives tied to the original RK project, specifically the (retroactively non-) "exclusive" RK crossover SDE minis.

Well, at this point looking at the funding trend, Soda Pop Miniatures will be lucky to reach $500K. I'm thinking the $300K-400K range is becoming more likely. It seems like this Kickstarter is missing some of the "wow" factor that helps drive other miniature Kickstarters.

I've been disappointed that the majority of recent stretch goals are just things unlocked for purchase. Who the hell wants that? Stretch goals should be free stuff! Isn't that the point?

Do you think Soda Pop Miniatures will throw in some more unique miniatures? Perhaps a Relic Knight or two?

Mez

I haven't been following the RK funding, so off to KickTraq!



I had previously guessed $400-500k, and right now $400k is looking a little optimistic. I'm thinking your $300-400 is more likely.

I think RK2 needs the paid adds to keep the money coming.

While I'm sure they'd like to throw in big freebies, I'm not sure they're at a funding level where they can do so.

I really can't imagine SPM won't add more free units.

They've got Scribes (Doctrine), Purifiers (SSP) and Pit Crew (Cerci) as free units: That's all Radiant-aligned, which puts Void on a real backfoot in terms of getting models into early adopters' hands. (Squall might be a minion, too, to be fair, and she's free. We already know Moffett and Kenobo are minions.) Note, too, that they've tossed in 2 add-on models (rather than upgrade kits), and they're both for free units: Scribe Shield Construct and the Purifier Divine Healer.

I think it's fair to guess that SPM plans to add a starter minion unit to each of the 6 core factions. I can see the wisdom to this (it encourages players to pick up a paid non-Void, non-Radiant knight so they can come away with two cadres), but I can also see a downside ("My pledge came in, but now I have a mess of free miniatures I can't use and no one else really wants ..."). Personally, I would have allowed $130+ backers to choose a free cadre rather than unlocking a bunch of unrelated units that can't be used w/ the Questing Knights in the core set, but I suspect this KS is targeting existing players more than it's targeting new ones.

I think it's also interesting to note that the core units from the cadres seem to be getting nice, new resins as a paid upgrade. (Corsairs and Diamond Corps so far. Of the other 4, the only we've seen is Kyojin Berzerkers, which are not going to resin. Fortunately, the Noh actually look decent in the restic.)

On the issue of final funding:
If we assume that a) I'm right about the plan to give the 6 core factions a free minion unit +upgrade, that puts us 5/12 (possibly 6/12) of such goals introduced; b) the final KS is intended to feature those free minions; and c) SPM isn't playing around with the notably hidden stretch goals, then we can get an expected projection of around 350k to 420k. That seems to jive with the graphs above. (That's a lot of "ifs," I know.)

(There's also a decent argument to be made that such free minions should have unlocked early, and that could point at a significantly slower KS than expected.)

There are indeed a number of stretch goals still to be announced, per the spoiled Google document they were using. Below is the list that I made, based on the "Free" entries in Bioptic's google doc:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/17LpUNsHb-029qvptGdDKx-OcIbE8DenxgYyP8WZFUDA/edit?usp=sharing

Upcoming stretch goals should come from the list below:
-Darkspace Delphyne - Void
-Darkspace Kenobo - Void
-Darkspace Novitiates - Radiant
-Darkspace Rhouss Fixers - Radiant
-Enforcers - Radiant
-Headmaster Togan & Cecilia - Doctrine
-Isabeau Durand - Shattered Sword
-Leopold Magnus - Questing Knight - Black Diamond
-Relic Knights: Radiant Objectives - z.Accessories
-Relic Knights: Void Objectives - z.Accessories
-Rin Farrah - Cerci Speed Circuit
-Seraphim - Void
-Serpent Priestess - Noh Empire
-Void Witch - Void

They have had a lot of paid stretch goals - but the freebie pile seems pretty nice to me, and they've kept the stretch goals at every $5,000 - so they are still going through them at a pretty good clip.

One thing holding me back is wanting to make sure I avoid all the old, kinda crappy sculpts. Am not sure how to pick up a faction while doing that.

Everything included in the pledges so far are new sculpts.

The add ons from the stretch goals are all new sculpts as well.

The only old stuff are either the pieces they show painted as add ons, or what might be available in the pledge manager.

Sorry - wasn't clear on that - am aware everything in the KS is new - but I mean like, if I want to pledge for the KS and pick up say the Doctrine faction (or any faction really) - I don't think I can do that as of yet without avoiding all the old crap?

I'm not massively bothered by loads of freebies. Yes it would be nice to get a load and whatnot but I'm just here to get this project out and successful.

Why every single female model must have Marie-Claude sized breasts? ok, technically some have a bit smaller, but still almost the same, some variety would not hurt.

 PsychoticStorm wrote:
Why every single female model must have Marie-Claude sized breasts? ok, technically some have a bit smaller, but still almost the same, some variety would not hurt.

I guess according to Soda Pop, everyone who likes anime must also wants all their anime ladies to have basketball-sized funbags? Perhaps to prevent the game being played in public

How does it work with pledges after the Kickstarter ends (using a pledge manager)? Does the company running the Kickstarter do the charge, or is it still Kickstarter?

It seems like Kickstarter is very clear that its services aren't subject to chargeback for non-delivery.

Basically, it is better for the charge to be on the pledgemanager (the company) instead of Kickstarter itself, if you are worried about needing to do a chargeback down the road?

Mez

Soda pop use their own online store as the pledge manager they create a part that's separate to the main store that backers can access they create an account for you or if you used the same email address for both KS and an existing SPM account they use that. The PM works exactly like their store you add items to your cart and checkout to finish they give you credit equal to your pledge and it comes off the total at check out if you go over your credit you pay the difference in the normal way.

As it's store credit I doubt you could charge back against it (only any part that is in excess of your pledge) any chargeback would probably be against the KS pledge.

Kickstarter charges you when the project ends

if the company uses a PM to collect shipping or add more stuff you'll get charged for that when the PM closes (eg backerkit) or immediately you submit it

If you're worried about doing a chargeback down the road i'd advise staying away from KS full stop as you usually will be out of time by the time you realise something is wrong

(although stuff paid for via PM would probably be counted as a purchase rather than a crowdfunding payment)

 DaveC wrote:
Soda pop use their own online store as the pledge manager they create a part that's separate to the main store that backers can access and they give you credit equal to your pledge to spend and it comes off the total at check out if you go over your credit you pay the difference in the normal way.

Thanks! So it sounds like the safest way is to pledge the $25 level to get the pin-ups (through Kickstarter), then use the pledgemanager after campaign end for everything else above and beyond that.

Mez


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 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:

If you're worried about doing a chargeback down the road i'd advise staying away from KS full stop as you usually will be out of time by the time you realise something is wrong (although stuff paid for via PM would probably be counted as a purchase rather than a crowdfunding payment)

My credit card is awesome about chargebacks, (because they are rare). Most credit card companies are very accommodating as long as you don't abuse the privilege, especially when there is non-delivery of items purchased at retail (like a pledgemanager). That is the case even a long time after promised delivery, because it shows that you waited more than just a short period of time to try and resolve the issue. The key is documentation - the original delivery date and documentation of follow-up with the company after that date has passed.

Mez

 PsychoticStorm wrote:
Why every single female model must have Marie-Claude sized breasts?

The guy behind SPM likes big boobs, simple as that.

Not that there's anything wrong with that...

Nothing wrong with that, but some variation and plasticity, would not be underappreciated.

Or gravity physics for that matter.

The women in the two re-sculpted unit (diamond corps and corsairs) are both sensibly sized and wearing reasonable armor (especially compared against the men in the units).

I'd prefer RK had more variety in their body shapes too.

 odinsgrandson wrote:

I'd prefer RK had more variety in their body shapes too.

Funny enough, the Noh have got you covered there. Whilr their women may be scantily clad and well endowed, their men actually seem to have a good range of body types.

 DaveC wrote:
Soda pop use their own online store as the pledge manager they create a part that's separate to the main store that backers can access they create an account for you or if you used the same email address for both KS and an existing SPM account they use that. The PM works exactly like their store you add items to your cart and checkout to finish they give you credit equal to your pledge and it comes off the total at check out if you go over your credit you pay the difference in the normal way.

As it's store credit I doubt you could charge back against it (only any part that is in excess of your pledge) any chargeback would probably be against the KS pledge.

So if I just pledge $2 to gain access to the special online store ($1 pledge, plus $1 store credit), can I then use my credit card for the remainder of my order in that special store?

Basically, after some thoughtful planning, I think I only want the new rulebook and the upgraded cards, and maybe some Wave 1 items that I know will ship immediately (Dahon, etc.).

Will my strategy work?

Mez

Another livestream QA with a prepared-question section.

This time, the topic is the creative side of RK. It'll be Thursday at noon PST.

https://live.kickstarter.com/soda-pop-miniatures/live/q-and-a-with-creative-team-john-cadice-and-deke-stella