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 extremefreak17 wrote:
Question about reavers:

Lets say I were to take a unit of six with 2 blasters, 2 cluster caltrops, and an arena champ w/agonizer. Which models do i give the blasters and caltrops to? Would I want to give the arena champ one of each and then put the other two on another single model? Or maybe spread them throughout the unit?

I know this might not be the best loadout for the sqaud, but i am more or less trying to figure out which models to magnetize the upgrades to, and dont want to have to use magnets on every model.

Furthermore, Basters or heat lances?

Putting one set of Cluster Caltrops on the Champion is the safest bet, because he can look-out-sir onto other models. It also allows him to take down enemy characters first. The downside is that it allows a tough character to tank all the HoW's for his unit by issuing a challenge and it's a waste if the Arena Champion declines and so would lose all their HoW hits.

How are DE supposed to deal with the various forms of flyer spam that still shows up. Necrons, Guard, various forms of SM?

Our flyers just dont seem to be able to stand up to a prolonged air fight as AV10 means they are getting penned by all manor shooting airborne or otherwise.

I don't think they could do much about it in the prior codex either. However, there is now the option for up to 6 Razorwings and 3 more Void Ravens. That's some flier spam.

What's the take on the Kabalite Raiding Party?
You get 6+ FnP turn 1, along with
"During the entire first game turn, and duruing any tyrn in which the Night Fight rules are in effect, all Troops units from this Formation have 5+ cover save, and all other units from this Formation have a 6+ cover save."
5+ cover and stealth and fnp is fairly decent durability for DE.




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 Jayden63 wrote:
How are DE supposed to deal with the various forms of flyer spam that still shows up. Necrons, Guard, various forms of SM?

Our flyers just dont seem to be able to stand up to a prolonged air fight as AV10 means they are getting penned by all manor shooting airborne or otherwise.

Nightshields gives them a 3+ jink. You could spam 6 fighters jink when you need to and used the non-jinky ones to shoot down his flyers.
Or spam scourge and hope to get lucky.
At 1720 points, you get 2 HQ's, 4 troops and 12 units of scourge, packing 48 blasters/heat lances.

Hey OP, you gonna post the rest of the codex review/tactics any time soon?

 Jayden63 wrote:
How are DE supposed to deal with the various forms of flyer spam that still shows up. Necrons, Guard, various forms of SM?

Our flyers just dont seem to be able to stand up to a prolonged air fight as AV10 means they are getting penned by all manor shooting airborne or otherwise.

you assume that they are supposed to be able to deal with it. They arent, they are supposed to lose.

Of course if you are super fast and hug cover, you might be able to knock out their ground troops, but it is unlikely

 Jayden63 wrote:
How are DE supposed to deal with the various forms of flyer spam that still shows up. Necrons, Guard, various forms of SM?

Our flyers just dont seem to be able to stand up to a prolonged air fight as AV10 means they are getting penned by all manor shooting airborne or otherwise.

Being Eldar, could you not just outmaneuver Flyers? They are fast ,but only in a straight line

Shattershard gone.......there goes my pure laughing mayhem moment

 BlaxicanX wrote:
A 6'' scout move is going to get you in charge range turn 2?

"

If you play maelstrom...

So that Carnival of Pain formation.... how much is that base cause it has some really cool options.

 Exergy wrote:

 BlaxicanX wrote:
A 6'' scout move is going to get you in charge range turn 2?

24" appart
6" scout
6" turn 1 move
d6" run
6" turn 2 move
2d6" charge

Yeah, I felt silly for asking a couple hours after I said it. Basic arithmetic is not my strong-point.

mercury14 wrote:

 BlaxicanX wrote:
A 6'' scout move is going to get you in charge range turn 2?

"

If you play maelstrom...

Nope -any game - you always start just over 24" apart

How good are reaver jetbikes? In the old codex they were mostly just harassers who made little sweeps by your opponent but now that bladevanes are HoW based they may have actually good better? A unit of 9 can dish out 3d6 s6 rending HoW attacks. This can very realistically destroy most vehicles who's rear armor is usually av10. Against marines, 10 HoW does 6.66 regular wounds and 1.66 rending wounds, or about 3.75 unsaved wounds. Plus you still have the regular bladevanes s4 rending HoW hits, plus 3 s3 normal attacks per reaver.

Survivability wise reavers are rocking t4 with a 3++ jink save making them about as hard to kill as marines. Jinking is not a big deal for the reavers as their splinter rifle is not the most impressive weapon. Combat drugs can also do a lot to make the t5.

A few units of 9 reavers could be very scary might be a better counter to serpent spam than scourges.

I played three games today against Orks, CSM and Space Marines. Thought I'd share my thoughts.

Klaivex is an auto-take

If you have any plan of running Incubi then don't be cheap, grab a Klaivex. He was the undeniable MVP of the day. Ran him twice with demi's, once with just a klaive -- I say don't spend the points on the demi. Ran him in a unit with 4 incubi out of a venom. Waited until turn 3 to get FC (after hitting the animus vitae) and with rampage he was averaging 6 attacks on the charge. Ate Kharne in a challenge, killed over his points in every single game.

Obviously you need to be careful with Incubi, but for 110 pts you get a monster CC unit that just destroys.

Hellions are potentially very good, but it all depends on the drugs.

YMMV on whether you're willing to take the risk, but getting 20 shots in a 10 man squad of them is nothing to sneeze at, and with the +1 A drugs they're legit. With FC they were getting 30 attacks on the charge, HoW and S4 went through a lot.

The perfect Archon build is still up in the air.

I still ran my standard soul trap, Huskblade and it performed well. Not amazingly, but well. The real fun comes in the relics and it's very much based on the army you're facing.

Against Orks I ran the armor and Archangel of Pain. WWP in, spaced right between a squad of lootas and nobs. -2 leadership from the armor, popped the angel for another -2. Killed 5 lootas, 3 nobz and then lootas ran off the board. It was stunning. Wont work against everything, but it's very good.

Wyches performed better than expected.

It took them WAY too long to come online, but if they're alive turn 5 they're darn near immovable. Throw them into a unit trying to mop up in CC and cap objectives. They beat their head into them forever.

The formation is stunning

Find the ruins, use stealth -- it's free jink without jinking. This set up my alpha strike in all three games. Nightshields are a must-have (which you already knew) but it's amazing how ho-hum a 6+ cover (5+ with nightfighting) sounds only to see it perform so well.

Remember you get to re-roll your trait too. Getting that No.2 is critical.

Ravagers are very much "meh"

I'm accustomed to running multiple Ravagers and they just didn't feel very good. Might be bad rolls, maybe more testing is needed -- but they were largely underwhelming.

The Voidraven is very, very good

Used the same strategy each game. Fly in, supersonic off the board dropping the bomb, come back in the next turn and shoot. It earned back its points every game.

Against orks and Space Marines it was by a large margin -- slightly less against CSM. It went down to a hail of auto cannons from Obliterators, but I was pleasantly surprised. The Void Mine is so very, very good.

Scourges did well, but heat lances might be the best loadout.

I assumed haywire would be all-valuable, but with lance shots and blasterborn it wasn't that big a deal. Having heat lances allows them to be more of a catch-all and soften up units I was charging with my Incubi.

-----------------------
That's it for now. I'll add more when I try different lists.

 Auswin wrote:

The perfect Archon build is still up in the air.

I still ran my standard soul trap, Huskblade and it performed well. Not amazingly, but well. The real fun comes in the relics and it's very much based on the army you're facing.

Against Orks I ran the armor and Archangel of Pain. WWP in, spaced right between a squad of lootas and nobs. -2 leadership from the armor, popped the angel for another -2. Killed 5 lootas, 3 nobz and then lootas ran off the board. It was stunning. Wont work against everything, but it's very good.

It should be noted that an Archon can only take one Relic. Either the Armor, or the Archangel, but not both.


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 Auswin wrote:

Scourges did well, but heat lances might be the best loadout.

I assumed haywire would be all-valuable, but with lance shots and blasterborn it wasn't that big a deal. Having heat lances allows them to be more of a catch-all and soften up units I was charging with my Incubi.

-----------------------
That's it for now. I'll add more when I try different lists.

Haywire will probably be better in more competitive contexts against Knight Titans and Wave Serpents. Heat Lances are probably better TAC weapons.

@ DE Vets

How well do you think the new PfP rules will work with Deep Striking Venoms/Raiders? Gives units a sure fire way to get FnP...although less models on the board

 Frozocrone wrote:
@ DE Vets
How well do you think the new PfP rules will work with Deep Striking Venoms/Raiders? Gives units a sure fire way to get FnP...although less models on the board

With enough mandrakes to keep you from getting tabled, it might work. 2+ cover and out of line of sight isn't all that easy to kill.

 lambsandlions wrote:
How good are reaver jetbikes? In the old codex they were mostly just harassers who made little sweeps by your opponent but now that bladevanes are HoW based they may have actually good better? A unit of 9 can dish out 3d6 s6 rending HoW attacks. This can very realistically destroy most vehicles who's rear armor is usually av10. Against marines, 10 HoW does 6.66 regular wounds and 1.66 rending wounds, or about 3.75 unsaved wounds. Plus you still have the regular bladevanes s4 rending HoW hits, plus 3 s3 normal attacks per reaver.

Survivability wise reavers are rocking t4 with a 3++ jink save making them about as hard to kill as marines. Jinking is not a big deal for the reavers as their splinter rifle is not the most impressive weapon. Combat drugs can also do a lot to make the t5.

A few units of 9 reavers could be very scary might be a better counter to serpent spam than scourges.

They can be pretty decent. On the charge, they're killing ~6 marines on average, counting the three caltrops and the squad's 27 melee attacks. With I6 they're going to easily hit and run out of there, and skilled rider is giving them a 3+ jink save.

If I were to run them, I probably wouldn't bother giving them any ranged special weapons, since any enemy not brain-dead is going to recognize how threatening they are and you'll probably be jinking them the majority of the time. I would just rely on your strength 6 rending hits to whomp vehicles and infantry.

Also, with the average roll on the combat drugs table being 4, you've got a decent chance of rolling around with T5 reavers, for extra lulz.

True Borne as psudo Ravager.
Raider, night shields, dark lance.
5 Trueborne, 2 dark lances.

170 points for the combo, and you get a 3+ jink, which only makes 1 of the 3 dark lances snap shot. The other two are firing normally. You also can split 1 shot off of the other two.

 BlaxicanX wrote:

 lambsandlions wrote:
How good are reaver jetbikes? In the old codex they were mostly just harassers who made little sweeps by your opponent but now that bladevanes are HoW based they may have actually good better? A unit of 9 can dish out 3d6 s6 rending HoW attacks. This can very realistically destroy most vehicles who's rear armor is usually av10. Against marines, 10 HoW does 6.66 regular wounds and 1.66 rending wounds, or about 3.75 unsaved wounds. Plus you still have the regular bladevanes s4 rending HoW hits, plus 3 s3 normal attacks per reaver.

Survivability wise reavers are rocking t4 with a 3++ jink save making them about as hard to kill as marines. Jinking is not a big deal for the reavers as their splinter rifle is not the most impressive weapon. Combat drugs can also do a lot to make the t5.

A few units of 9 reavers could be very scary might be a better counter to serpent spam than scourges.

They can be pretty decent. On the charge, they're killing ~6 marines on average, counting the three caltrops and the squad's 27 melee attacks. With I6 they're going to easily hit and run out of there, and skilled rider is giving them a 3+ jink save.

If I were to run them, I probably wouldn't bother giving them any ranged special weapons, since any enemy not brain-dead is going to recognize how threatening they are and you'll probably be jinking them the majority of the time. I would just rely on your strength 6 rending hits to whomp vehicles and infantry.

Also, with the average roll on the combat drugs table being 4, you've got a decent chance of rolling around with T5 reavers, for extra lulz.

Yeah, the special weapons don't work well on a unit that will be jinking every turn. An arena champ with a power sword might be nice, he will kill 2 extra marines.

Also you are equally likely to get any outcome in the combat drugs. There is no average roll, but half of the are pretty good so 50/50 chance.

Well, youre Voidraven tactic is illegal. While I am not sure if it is intended, that you can supersonic off the board in the same turn it arrives, the rules for bombs are pretty clear: No Turbo-boost after a bombing run! --- The thing with one artefact per Character was already mentioned. You can still use this tactic if you put 2 characters in the same unit, but its going to be really expensive and as you mentioned, it doesnt work against marines, nids and everything else with ASKNF or fearless.




The average roll on a d6 is 3.5 --- well you cant roll that and the average number has nothing to do with the chance to get a specific roll. The chances to get +T is just 1/6



I think you forget that the Lances of the trueborn can only snapfire, if the raider has moved. Lances are heavy and the passangers count as moved too after their Transport has moved. If you want a stationary weapon platform this might be an Option, otherwise take the ravager or a raider filled with blasterborn coming out of a WWP for some rear armor shots. Another thing is, that I dont find lance-ravagers that impressive anymore with the new vehicle rules. We now have better AT Options for the points (Scourges, Reavers). I prefer the Variant with Dissis, cause massed AP2 fire is something I cant get easily somewhere else.

Can you fly off the board and bomb in the same turn with the voidbomber? o.O

I had no idea that was possible...

 Elmir wrote:
Can you fly off the board and bomb in the same turn with the voidbomber? o.O

I had no idea that was possible...

It isn't.

Am I wrong thinking about a Deep Strike Venom with Trueborn, 4 with Blasters, being a decent Sternguard stand-in? Lance S8 is enticing, plus spending the tiny amount of points on another Splinter Cannon means 12 shots at some Infantry unit nearby and 4 S8 Lance at the vehicle right next to it. A nice little blob of death? 180pts is pretty steep for not-a-sure-thing but a Jink afterwards might keep it alive for a second try. Would be nice on backfield models like a Tau Hammerhead or similar long range tank.

rollawaythestone wrote:


It should be noted that an Archon can only take one Relic. Either the Armor, or the Archangel, but not both.

Based on what, precisely? I don't see any rule that limits relics to one-per-Archon. The Archon entry says "may times items from the artefacts of cruelty list" and pg 109 simply says "only one of EACH relic may be taken."

An Archon can absolutely take two relics, as long as the same relic isn't doubled up somewhere else in the list.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Elmir wrote:
Can you fly off the board and bomb in the same turn with the voidbomber? o.O

I had no idea that was possible...

Yeah, I messed that up. I missed the rule that it couldn't enter and leave on the same turn. This changes things quite a lot. I'll have to playtest with the bomber further.

no, a model can only take on artifact normally (same for all the codexes right now, at least the 6th and up codexes)

"Only one of each Artefact of Cruelty may be taken per army. A model may take one of the following:"

So you can't go and stack artifacts on 1 model. Note the difference with, for instance, the arcane wargear wording:

"A model may take one of each of the following:"

Agreed on the Klaivex being an auto take on a unit of Incubi. He did amazingly for me in 2 games (the third he was evaporated by a Riptide, what are you gonna do?). I took a unit of 4 to bodyguard my Archon, and in both games the Archon was shocking. He seriously only scored 1 wound in 2 games (although that wound did instant kill a Mawlock, so he came in where it mattered) but in both games the Klaivex was cleaving through units. He did 3 wounds a turn to a unit of Warriors until he killed them, the Archon was staring at a butterfly. Then he slaughtered some Grey Hunters, the Archon was admiring a fancy looking Rock.

Seriously, my Archon sucks :(

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
Agreed on the Klaivex being an auto take on a unit of Incubi. He did amazingly for me in 2 games (the third he was evaporated by a Riptide, what are you gonna do?). I took a unit of 4 to bodyguard my Archon, and in both games the Archon was shocking. He seriously only scored 1 wound in 2 games (although that wound did instant kill a Mawlock, so he came in where it mattered) but in both games the Klaivex was cleaving through units. He did 3 wounds a turn to a unit of Warriors until he killed them, the Archon was staring at a butterfly. Then he slaughtered some Grey Hunters, the Archon was admiring a fancy looking Rock.

Seriously, my Archon sucks :(

If your not using a WWP just field lelith or drazar if you want a combat machine. Even more so on drazar if your fielding an Incubi escort.

Agree about taking a Klaivex with Incubi, looks beastly.

I'm only fielding three Incubi though, Klaivex being one of them. Wish I could find points for more but eh - I do have a Succubus attached to them in a Venom though..