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 HawaiiMatt wrote:

morgoth wrote:

 turgon868 wrote:
Doesn't skilled rider just mean +1 to jink saves?

Nope, it also gives move through cover.

Incorrect. You gain +1 jink and autopass difficult tests.
It's pretty awesome really.

Technically equivalent.
I think it's a lot easier to say +1 jink and move through cover though.

A unit that contains at least one model with this special rule rolls an extra D6 when rolling to move through difficult terrain and is not slowed by charging through difficult terrain. In most circumstances, this will mean that, when moving, the unit rolls 3D6 and picks the highest roll. Furthermore, a model with the Move Through Cover special rule automatically passes Dangerous Terrain tests.

Since bikes, which are the only units that get Skilled Rider, do not care about difficult terrain to begin with, it's equivalent really, with the added bonus that it simplifies the game rules.

A unit that contains at least one model with this special rule rolls an extra D6 when rolling to move through difficult terrain and is not slowed by charging through difficult terrain. In most circumstances, this will mean that, when moving, the unit rolls 3D6 and picks the highest roll. Furthermore, a model with the Move Through Cover special rule automatically passes Dangerous Terrain tests.

If Reavers had only Move through Cover they'd have to make dangerous terrain checks.

Move Through Cover lets you auto-pass Dangerous Terrain Checks.

However, MTC would also be a buff, because it negates the -2 charge penalty for charging into difficult terrain.

I'm going to try 5x warriors with a blaster and sybarite with haywire grenades in a venom for 4 troop choices this saturday. I never liked running the single blaster in the squad because it didn't seem like enough anti armor to be worthwhile, but having two threats to vehicles makes it more reasonable to me and each of these units only costs 135. Depending on the range, you'd get two shots in the shooting phase and one more desperate chance in the assaulting phase.

 lessthanjeff wrote:
I'm going to try 5x warriors with a blaster and sybarite with haywire grenades in a venom for 4 troop choices this saturday. I never liked running the single blaster in the squad because it didn't seem like enough anti armor to be worthwhile, but having two threats to vehicles makes it more reasonable to me and each of these units only costs 135. Depending on the range, you'd get two shots in the shooting phase and one more desperate chance in the assaulting phase.

I'd only run that build if you plan to mass deep strike all of them.


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 turgon868 wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 turgon868 wrote:
Seems like Scourges are exceedingly versatile now. Most lists I have seen have people putting either Heat Lances or Hawywire blasters on.

Has anyone though about using them to fill other roles:

4 Blasters (140pts squad) compared to Blasterborn in a venom?

Stock unit (80pts squad) with 5 shardcarbines compared to warriors in venoms/raiders?

I say this as I will probably pick up 4 boxes for the above mentioned haywire and heat lances leaving me 10 models to spare.

For alternate AT I'd take reavers. They are the same cost, similar durability but more importantly they have eldar jetbikes which lets them jump to within 9" with heatlances then jump back 2d6 and with skilled rider they can hop into terrain without danger. So if I want anything other then shardcarbines of haywire blasters I will turn to reavers.

Doesn't skilled rider just mean +1 to jink saves?

I am not sure I'd run reavers with any special weapons since I'd just want them to jink every turn. I am interested to see how effective the caltrops end up being though.

You missed my point though. If your going to run scourge with heatlances then your better off using reavers since they have a better shot at surviving. DS'ing scourge with heatlances is way to random, you can easily scatter outside melta range unless you come in close in which case you risk mishap. Either way they die next turn. Heat lance reavers can turbo behind cover turn 1 then jump shoot jump and have a great shot at survival. Since reavers can ignore dangerous they don't always need to be jinking, just drive through ruins.

 Red Corsair wrote:
If your going to run scourge with heatlances then your better off using reavers since they have a better shot at surviving. DS'ing scourge with heatlances is way to random, you can easily scatter outside melta range unless you come in close in which case you risk mishap. Either way they die next turn. Heat lance reavers can turbo behind cover turn 1 then jump shoot jump and have a great shot at survival. Since reavers can ignore dangerous they don't always need to be jinking, just drive through ruins.

I'm not sold it is way to random. several armies run DSing meltaguns on terminators with only a 6" melta range. That scatters pretty easily, but is still effective.

Scourges have another 3", 1 more gun than termicide, and a smaller footprint so less likely to mishap.

While I don't play Eldar or Dark Eldar, it seems to me there's going to be some nasty gak with Iyanden.

Mainly because

Archon ; Webway Portal
1-5 Iyanden Spirit Seers w/ Telepathy. Is 1-5 Psychic Shrieks in a turn.
5 Wraithguard w/ Wraithcannons or D Scythes

Can pretty much kill two units in the game straight up on landing. Vehicle or Unit.

Plus w/ Iyanden you get Wraithguard as Troops if you want them, and you can take a unit of Fire Dragons to stick in a Venom or w/ another HQ w/ WWP.

The codex reads to me as more of a Codex : Eldar supplement than an actual faction.

Most of the things you can do with it involve allying in CWE ..

I am really liking the formation... Looking forward to the Covens book to see what sort of nonsense they have access to. The new wrack weapons reads pretty gnarly, my math-fu is weak so I dont know how good it actually is, but sounds awesome.

Until I get the supplement, however, I am planning on either 2 venoms of incubi, or 2 10man squads of grots either with a succubus and an archon with em, deepstriking in the backfield to cause all sorts of nonsense. 2 squads of 6 reavers w/ caltrops, 4 squads of scourges w/ haywire. Couple of raiders w/ racks full of warriors only thing i am unsure of is heavy support- i am thinking voidraven but more for the anti-air...

Yeah we got hit with the bat fairly hard in some areas, but i dont think its gonna hurt us once everyone gets some table time and figures out the optimum strats for their meta

Here is a video Library of the individual Tactica Videos that I have been making with the new release, I hope you enjoy them as much as I have had fun making them.

Video 1 - The Archon:



Video 2 - The Court:

Hollismason wrote:
While I don't play Eldar or Dark Eldar, it seems to me there's going to be some nasty gak with Iyanden.

Mainly because

Archon ; Webway Portal
1-5 Iyanden Spirit Seers w/ Telepathy. Is 1-5 Psychic Shrieks in a turn.
5 Wraithguard w/ Wraithcannons or D Scythes

Can pretty much kill two units in the game straight up on landing. Vehicle or Unit.

Plus w/ Iyanden you get Wraithguard as Troops if you want them, and you can take a unit of Fire Dragons to stick in a Venom or w/ another HQ w/ WWP.

The first combo is close to 500 points, very squishy.
The second combo doesn't make any sense.
It's already been discussed, you can try it, it's not going to be worth its points.

 Ascalam wrote:
The codex reads to me as more of a Codex : Eldar supplement than an actual faction.

Most of the things you can do with it involve allying in CWE ..

That has less to do with the dark eldar book itself and more to do with the fact that Eldar is BUSTED

 Red Corsair wrote:


You missed my point though. If your going to run scourge with heatlances then your better off using reavers since they have a better shot at surviving. DS'ing scourge with heatlances is way to random, you can easily scatter outside melta range unless you come in close in which case you risk mishap. Either way they die next turn. Heat lance reavers can turbo behind cover turn 1 then jump shoot jump and have a great shot at survival. Since reavers can ignore dangerous they don't always need to be jinking, just drive through ruins.

This was something i was thinking, the ability to simply use the cover to hide your advances will mean you mostly wont need to jink, blast through the terrain straight into whatever your target is i am really seeing a gunboat styled list working effectively. DSing in your venoms and raiders to help soften up your targets before you hit them with your HoW caltrop reavers. Then a few units intended for CC clean up like incubi. Although these are my thoughts on the kabal side, as i dont intend to try coven just yet (running a fluffy style list that coven dont currently fit).

 Leth wrote:

 Ascalam wrote:
The codex reads to me as more of a Codex : Eldar supplement than an actual faction.

Most of the things you can do with it involve allying in CWE ..

That has less to do with the dark eldar book itself and more to do with the fact that Eldar is BUSTED

Partially that, to be sure.

the codex seems a bit insipid to me though, and missing a few things.

VERY few SC (yeah i know, no model = good bye ), no LOW listed, Warlord traits by and large suck.

There are a few bright lights, especially if you play coven.

Doesn't help that more than the usual amount of the codex is given over to fluff and a massive wodge of pictures. That really makes it feel more like an add-on than a codex to me.

That said a lot of the new crop of codexes have that feel. Guess i'm just getting old.

 Ascalam wrote:


the codex seems a bit insipid to me though, and missing a few things.

VERY few SC (yeah i know, no model = good bye ), no LOW listed, Warlord traits by and large suck.

There are a few bright lights, especially if you play coven.

Doesn't help that more than the usual amount of the codex is given over to fluff and a massive wodge of pictures. That really makes it feel more like an add-on than a codex to me.

That said a lot of the new crop of codexes have that feel. Guess i'm just getting old.

Not trying to be all anti GW and such... but to me it seemed more like this:

"what do all dark eldar players already own... what dont they own... buff those.." obviously its not all like that and having the majority of the dex brought up so coven stuff is actually playable... but it seems like the highly competitive looking units this dex are the units you dont own not to say your current units arent worth anything, but most people seem to be building lists around units they dont already have (unless you already had em under all that dust).

In regards to the ability to Buff eldar... it sorta seems the other way. Its the DE units imo that allow the eldar to do nifty stuff, but you can still do those nifty things without the eldar... the eldar cannot. Can the eldar DS all their vehicles if they wish? can they DS pinpoint any unit, assault out of vehicles... these are all awesome things the DE have; yes they allow the eldar to do it if taken as allies, but it works the otherway too. I just think the reason people think its that the DE are the tag along is because eldar are so competitive/broken/full of possible cheese that any allies are seen as the biscuit to the cheese.

The codex layout does indeed seem like a colouring book, but like you said they are moving that way in general, the ork book the first half is fluff and piccies! only annoying thing is they keep having like the wargear/relic list before the units then the actual wargear descriptions after and i feel like im shifting about in the book a lot for not much reason

Solar Shock wrote:

The codex layout does indeed seem like a colouring book, but like you said they are moving that way in general, the ork book the first half is fluff and piccies! only annoying thing is they keep having like the wargear/relic list before the units then the actual wargear descriptions after and i feel like im shifting about in the book a lot for not much reason

Flip back and forth a few hundred times and you'll need a new $50 codex.
Eldar/DE vs DE/Eldar is an interesting debate.

I think that debate is 100% down to the restrictions placed on whatever event you are attending.

Is it Single Cad(Detachments counting as Cad) and an Ally
Is it Single Cad and an Ally(Detachments counting as Ally Slot)

So on and so forth.

Also what your strategy is as well.

 HawaiiMatt wrote:

Flip back and forth a few hundred times and you'll need a new $50 codex.

Havent you heard? each page has a limited viewing time of 200 minutes, after that said page shall unbind and walk back to GW.... ive heard rumours that they also steal models as they go.
Didnt you know the codexes are only leased to us, in about a month GW will be asking for em back along with lease release charges and overdue book returns.

And once again, it appears unbound would be the solution in any case.

The more time passes, the less swiss cheese restrictions make sense (ally CAD but you can take adamantium lance lololol)

 Exergy wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:
If your going to run scourge with heatlances then your better off using reavers since they have a better shot at surviving. DS'ing scourge with heatlances is way to random, you can easily scatter outside melta range unless you come in close in which case you risk mishap. Either way they die next turn. Heat lance reavers can turbo behind cover turn 1 then jump shoot jump and have a great shot at survival. Since reavers can ignore dangerous they don't always need to be jinking, just drive through ruins.

I'm not sold it is way to random. several armies run DSing meltaguns on terminators with only a 6" melta range. That scatters pretty easily, but is still effective.

Scourges have another 3", 1 more gun than termicide, and a smaller footprint so less likely to mishap.

I am sure my opinion is tainted from experience. Whenever I deep strike something that isn't LoTD or in a drop pod it seems to scatter massive amounts. I have had issues with lone wolves and they are single models lol.

I am from the camp that thinks just because we have 6 FA choices doesn't mean we should have toss away units that are hit or miss. Also note that while scourge have a 3" boost over melta, thats only inside melta range, outside of 9" they are awful unlike melta that are great out to 12 against light armor.

Another realization is that all of the leadership stuff works against daemons as well.

So marines(which honestly dark eldar have the tools to deal with so no biggy) Tyranids in synapse(once again second verse same as the first).

Second only the MODEL with the fearless rule can not receive wounds. Units that contain fearless models benefit from fearless but are not fearless themselves.

So outside of those two types it will work well against the armies that are actually a problem.

Another perk that is hidden under the radar is tank shock. Now all our venoms can have TS via chain snares. I think its an awesome tool after you DS and jink. Just TS as many units off the table as possible before firing.

Yep, just make sure you dont pass over a model that can reliably hurt you(like the guy with the melta) combined with all the leadership reducing things in the army, you could theoretically make them take 3-4 checks per unit. Also then after they fail any additional tank shocks will cause an auto fall back.

Mandrakes, Scourges and Grotesques seem like the big winners of the book.

Mandrakes get Shrouded and their shooting attack from the start.
Scourges get two more heavy weapons.
Grotesques lose their kill yourself downside and get instant death melee weapons and liquifier guns.

 dan2026 wrote:
Mandrakes, Scourges and Grotesques seem like the big winners of the book.

Mandrakes get Shrouded and their shooting attack from the start.
Scourges get two more heavy weapons.
Grotesques lose their kill yourself downside and get instant death melee weapons and liquifier guns.

Clawed fiend packs rock. Bikes rock. Courts rock. All in all I think it was a solid update.

So realspace raider detachment - if I get this correctly

It is battle forged
I can use any HQ
I need two troops BUT they are not OS
I can have 6 FA slots
I have special warlord traits and missions
I use regular PfP chart from codex
If I take allies (eg. eldar) their troops would be OS

So the big handicap is no OS troops right? Anyone else this yet? I played a game and am hoping I did it right, lol.

 Red Corsair wrote:

 dan2026 wrote:
Mandrakes, Scourges and Grotesques seem like the big winners of the book.

Mandrakes get Shrouded and their shooting attack from the start.
Scourges get two more heavy weapons.
Grotesques lose their kill yourself downside and get instant death melee weapons and liquifier guns.

Clawed fiend packs rock. Bikes rock. Courts rock. All in all I think it was a solid update.

It seems like most of the units in the book got buffed in one way or another. And if they didn't get buffed, I'm not sure any of them really got worse.

Shame about the special characters. Dumb GW.

Even if the characters didn't get worse, a lot of our wargear did. AP3 Huskblades? 25 point Agonizers?

Also, Drazhar wants a word with you.

Special character, normal characters, wyches and hellions all got worse. As did the ravager.
Just about everything else got better.


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Add Wracks to the list of worse than before. They lost the option for troops.

 felixcat wrote:

So the big handicap is no OS troops right? Anyone else this yet? I played a game and am hoping I did it right, lol.

Yeah, the "biiiiig" handicap

I don't think you can even consider playing DE outside of that format anymore tbh. Too much pure awesome in that.