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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/10/09 19:56:18
Subject: Website writes article titled "MISOGYNY AND THE FEMALE BODY IN DUNGEONS & DRAGONS"
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[MOD]
Anti-piracy Officer
Somewhere in south-central England.
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Back on topic, why pick specially on D'n'D? Surely the possibility of players role-playing rape has always existed in any RPG. I haven't seen it happen myself during many years of playing many different games. Perhaps I have led a sheltered life.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/10/09 19:58:51
Subject: Website writes article titled "MISOGYNY AND THE FEMALE BODY IN DUNGEONS & DRAGONS"
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Hallowed Canoness
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Manchu wrote:Why are you quoting Peregrine while asking about what I am implying?
Because that was what you were answering to  .
Peregrine was talking about how some case of customers asking for change are bad while other are not, and you were answering something completely unrelated to his argument. While quoting him, and making it look like you were answering him.
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"Our fantasy settings are grim and dark, but that is not a reflection of who we are or how we feel the real world should be. [...] We will continue to diversify the cast of characters we portray [...] so everyone can find representation and heroes they can relate to. [...] If [you don't feel the same way], you will not be missed"
https://twitter.com/WarComTeam/status/1268665798467432449/photo/1 |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/10/09 20:09:36
Subject: Website writes article titled "MISOGYNY AND THE FEMALE BODY IN DUNGEONS & DRAGONS"
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[MOD]
Solahma
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Vulnerable because visible? I suppose we could find some sexist stuff from the 70s in the Traveller fanzines but that's terrible clickbait. I think you must still be in your world of communist feminists. Here in this thread, Peregrine attempted to strawman me. And then you step in with the assist LOL.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/10/09 20:14:37
Subject: Website writes article titled "MISOGYNY AND THE FEMALE BODY IN DUNGEONS & DRAGONS"
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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This right here. It's still pretty common for laypersons to use D&D to mean Role-playing as a whole mostly because it's the name everyone knows(thanks to movies, chick tracks, and anti-D&D campaigns) and due to ignorance of the industry and options available, both these days and in the past. Sure, it's what many/most of us started with, but it's pretty common to find role-players who started with Traveller, Werewolf/VTM/Mage/*insert favored WoD setting here*, and even Dark Heresy/other 40K RPG. I think technically, I started with WHFRP 1st myself.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/10/09 20:16:24
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/10/09 20:15:31
Subject: Website writes article titled "MISOGYNY AND THE FEMALE BODY IN DUNGEONS & DRAGONS"
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Author is writing his dissertation on the topic (D&D) and then connects with an "in" topic to generate publicity.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/10/09 20:17:13
Subject: Re:Website writes article titled "MISOGYNY AND THE FEMALE BODY IN DUNGEONS & DRAGONS"
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Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar
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Is there any statistics to back up the claim that women are raped frequently in RPG game sessions? If not, then this is just click bait web trash making baseless claims.
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Thought for the day: Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.
30k Ultramarines: 2000 pts
Bolt Action Germans: ~1200 pts
AOS Stormcast: Just starting.
The Empire : ~60-70 models.
1500 pts
: My Salamanders painting blog 16 Infantry and 2 Vehicles done so far! |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/10/09 20:20:47
Subject: Website writes article titled "MISOGYNY AND THE FEMALE BODY IN DUNGEONS & DRAGONS"
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Hallowed Canoness
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Manchu wrote:Here in this thread, Peregrine attempted to strawman me.
Okay. You still answered to his argument with something completely unrelated.
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"Our fantasy settings are grim and dark, but that is not a reflection of who we are or how we feel the real world should be. [...] We will continue to diversify the cast of characters we portray [...] so everyone can find representation and heroes they can relate to. [...] If [you don't feel the same way], you will not be missed"
https://twitter.com/WarComTeam/status/1268665798467432449/photo/1 |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/10/09 20:22:07
Subject: Website writes article titled "MISOGYNY AND THE FEMALE BODY IN DUNGEONS & DRAGONS"
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[MOD]
Solahma
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You know what a strawman argument is, right? Peregrine attempted to put words in my mouth so I quoted my actual argument back to him.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/10/09 20:29:11
Subject: Website writes article titled "MISOGYNY AND THE FEMALE BODY IN DUNGEONS & DRAGONS"
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Hallowed Canoness
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Okay, I think I misunderstood your argument. My bad.
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"Our fantasy settings are grim and dark, but that is not a reflection of who we are or how we feel the real world should be. [...] We will continue to diversify the cast of characters we portray [...] so everyone can find representation and heroes they can relate to. [...] If [you don't feel the same way], you will not be missed"
https://twitter.com/WarComTeam/status/1268665798467432449/photo/1 |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/10/09 20:30:26
Subject: Website writes article titled "MISOGYNY AND THE FEMALE BODY IN DUNGEONS & DRAGONS"
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[MOD]
Solahma
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No worries!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/10/09 20:40:18
Subject: Re:Website writes article titled "MISOGYNY AND THE FEMALE BODY IN DUNGEONS & DRAGONS"
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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I have played in and run games where characters' sexuality was explored but rape was never really a factor. One instance that comes to mind that broached the subject of rape was a game run by the uncle of a friend from high school. The players were all my friends from school and we were all around 15 or 16. One of the players, happening across a female human wizard living alone in a shack in a dimension of lizards and lizardmen, decided to use his thieving skills to pick-pocket the wizard. The character was pretty good at pick pocket but since a major NPC was his intended mark he was immediately spotted by the wizard and rebuked. Agitated, the player made a threat to the DM saying something to the effect of "okay, I take off my pants and grab her" and the DM, without missing a beat, nodded and said, "Okay, the wizard sees you undress, mutters an incantation and points at your manhood which immediately retracts into your body. Everyone present sees your penis become a vagina."
Now, the table full of teenage boys erupted into laughter. And the player in question got really upset, especially when the DM reminded the rest of the party that we were all males, who had been adventuring "for months" away from "town" and that our fellow adventurer was looking more attractive to us the longer he stood around showing us his vagina. The offending player immediately wanted to back up the game and "take back" his threat to rape the wizard, but the DM declined, and forced him to march around the lizard realm sans penis. Crestfallen, the player shut up and never made a rape threat in our D&D game ever again.
At the time I didn't appreciate the situation for what it was, but looking back on it I think the DM handled the situation well. He could have paused the game and lectured us on the inappropriateness of the player's threat and the trauma that rape causes. But, in all likelihood that lecture would have fallen on deaf ears because we were all idiotic teenage boys. However, morphing the character's penis into a vagina immediately made the threat of rape real for the player who obviously didn't want his character raped, and it got the idea in our collective heads that rape would not be tolerated in the DM's game. In an odd way it brought all of us down to earth and made the trivialization and "joke" of rape no longer funny, because suddenly it could happen to any of our characters.
So, yeah, not a lot of rape in my D&D/RPG experience, and when it has come up it has been managed internally within the player group.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/10/09 20:45:57
Subject: Website writes article titled "MISOGYNY AND THE FEMALE BODY IN DUNGEONS & DRAGONS"
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[MOD]
Solahma
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OTOH punishing someone by morphing their penis into a vagina is problematic to say the least. Automatically Appended Next Post: #thingsIdidnotexpecttopost
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/10/09 20:46:16
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/10/09 20:54:41
Subject: Re:Website writes article titled "MISOGYNY AND THE FEMALE BODY IN DUNGEONS & DRAGONS"
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Kid_Kyoto
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How bizarre a post that would be were it taken out of the context of this thread.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/10/09 20:59:44
Subject: Website writes article titled "MISOGYNY AND THE FEMALE BODY IN DUNGEONS & DRAGONS"
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Badass "Sister Sin"
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Creepy friend's uncle sex-changed my character...
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/10/09 21:03:54
Subject: Re:Website writes article titled "MISOGYNY AND THE FEMALE BODY IN DUNGEONS & DRAGONS"
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Yeah, gak gets weird in games, right?
Still, if you were running a game for a bunch of 15 year old's and one of them tried to " LOL rape" an NPC, how would you handle it? I think the DM did a fine job on the fly of knocking some sense into a group of idiot boys.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Manchu wrote:OTOH punishing someone by morphing their penis into a vagina is problematic to say the least.
Sure. As was the DM encouraging the party to rape the rapist, but it got the point across.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/10/09 21:05:12
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/10/09 21:05:51
Subject: Website writes article titled "MISOGYNY AND THE FEMALE BODY IN DUNGEONS & DRAGONS"
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Esteemed Veteran Space Marine
My secret fortress at the base of the volcano!
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Peregrine wrote:
Well yes, just like any other customer asking for changes is assuming that the product has been bad and wrong all these years. Are you similarly outraged about D&D players asking WOTC to fix the endgame balance issues where fighters cap out at "professional athlete" level power, while wizards become gods? Did you post angry complaints about "class justice warriors" who demanded changes when 4th edition left out popular core classes that had been around for decades? If not, why is it suddenly wrong when customers (or potential customers) ask for changes involving gender issues?
The difference being that, currently, the only place gender issues are a problem is at specific tables full of immature gakheads. D&D itself has no inherant gender issues anymore. Yes, back in the day of Clive Caldwell's illustrations of chainmail bikini-clad fighter gals, you could rightly argue there were issues involving portrayals of women in D&D. Now? Not so much (or at all, really).
Again, the table full of creepers ERPing out their rape fanatasies with a chortling co-conspirator GM is not the fault or responsibility of D&D. It's the fault and responsibility of those creepers not being drowned in a bathtub by their parents.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/10/09 21:09:58
Emperor's Eagles (undergoing Chapter reorganization)
Caledonian 95th (undergoing regimental reorganization)
Thousands Sons (undergoing Warband re--- wait, are any of my 40K armies playable?) |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/10/09 21:06:19
Subject: Website writes article titled "MISOGYNY AND THE FEMALE BODY IN DUNGEONS & DRAGONS"
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Secret Force Behind the Rise of the Tau
USA
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My thoughts;
"So, I'm a chick now?"
"Yes."
"Am I hot, or is this one of those transformations where by build doesn't change at all I just get and innie and some bigger pecks on my otherwise masculine form?"
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/10/09 21:09:33
Subject: Re:Website writes article titled "MISOGYNY AND THE FEMALE BODY IN DUNGEONS & DRAGONS"
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Esteemed Veteran Space Marine
My secret fortress at the base of the volcano!
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DarkTraveler777 wrote:Yeah, gak gets weird in games, right?
Still, if you were running a game for a bunch of 15 year old's and one of them tried to " LOL rape" an NPC, how would you handle it? I think the DM did a fine job on the fly of knocking some sense into a group of idiot boys.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Manchu wrote:OTOH punishing someone by morphing their penis into a vagina is problematic to say the least.
Sure. As was the DM encouraging the party to rape the rapist, but it got the point across.
This was a great way for the DM to handle the situation. Evil actions have consequences, and whenever players step out of line it is the DM's job to slap them down. This guy was a fan of ironic punishments, and there's nothing wrong with that. Some DMs would've dropped a bus on the guy. Others would have had paladins of much higher level pursue the party looking for justice. Personally, I think this particular punishment was the most effective method of shutting down a 15 year old idiot. When I was a 15 year old idiot, it would've shut me down right quick.
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Emperor's Eagles (undergoing Chapter reorganization)
Caledonian 95th (undergoing regimental reorganization)
Thousands Sons (undergoing Warband re--- wait, are any of my 40K armies playable?) |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/10/09 21:10:01
Subject: Re:Website writes article titled "MISOGYNY AND THE FEMALE BODY IN DUNGEONS & DRAGONS"
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Badass "Sister Sin"
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DarkTraveler777 wrote:Yeah, gak gets weird in games, right?
Still, if you were running a game for a bunch of 15 year old's and one of them tried to " LOL rape" an NPC, how would you handle it? I think the DM did a fine job on the fly of knocking some sense into a group of idiot boys.
The character was pretty good at pick pocket but since a major NPC was his intended mark he was immediately spotted by the wizard and rebuked. Agitated, the player made a threat to the DM saying something to the effect of "okay, I take off my pants and grab her" and the DM, without missing a beat, nodded and said, "Okay, the wizard sees you undress, mutters an incantation and points at you. Since your pants are around your ankles, you fail your reflex save and are frozen in place. The wizards turns to your companions and says 'If this fool is with you, you can consider our agreement off. I do not deal with amateurs.'"
Underlined part is mine.
The players then are left with a roleplaying predicament. How do they smooth over the actions of their asinine friend with this major NPC?
edit: You'll notice mine doesn't shift the rape from one person to another, but removes it entirely once the pants are dropped.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/10/09 21:11:19
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/10/09 21:13:49
Subject: Re:Website writes article titled "MISOGYNY AND THE FEMALE BODY IN DUNGEONS & DRAGONS"
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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pretre wrote: DarkTraveler777 wrote:Yeah, gak gets weird in games, right?
Still, if you were running a game for a bunch of 15 year old's and one of them tried to " LOL rape" an NPC, how would you handle it? I think the DM did a fine job on the fly of knocking some sense into a group of idiot boys.
The character was pretty good at pick pocket but since a major NPC was his intended mark he was immediately spotted by the wizard and rebuked. Agitated, the player made a threat to the DM saying something to the effect of "okay, I take off my pants and grab her" and the DM, without missing a beat, nodded and said, "Okay, the wizard sees you undress, mutters an incantation and points at you. Since your pants are around your ankles, you fail your reflex save and are frozen in place. The wizards turns to your companions and says 'If this fool is with you, you can consider our agreement off. I do not deal with amateurs.'"
Underlined part is mine.
The players then are left with a roleplaying predicament. How do they smooth over the actions of their asinine friend with this major NPC?
edit: You'll notice mine doesn't shift the rape from one person to another, but removes it entirely once the pants are dropped.
That is one way to handle it. Though, knowing our group at that time, we likely would have attacked the wizard and died. So, the DM's solution was to take the joke away from the offensive player, make him feel uncomfortable, and the topic quickly changed to what we were going to do in the reptile realm.
I am not arguing that the DM's solution is the only one available, but given the context of the group dynamic and the situation at hand at the time I think the outcome worked.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/10/09 21:14:15
Subject: Website writes article titled "MISOGYNY AND THE FEMALE BODY IN DUNGEONS & DRAGONS"
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[MOD]
Solahma
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I'm with pretre on this one. Rape is not the answer to rape. Automatically Appended Next Post: again, #thingsIdidnotexpecttopost
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/10/09 21:14:24
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/10/09 21:15:10
Subject: Website writes article titled "MISOGYNY AND THE FEMALE BODY IN DUNGEONS & DRAGONS"
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Badass "Sister Sin"
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I just don't think it really changed the situation. Basically, rape is still funny, just not when it is against the NPCs.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/10/09 21:15:58
Subject: Re:Website writes article titled "MISOGYNY AND THE FEMALE BODY IN DUNGEONS & DRAGONS"
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[MOD]
Solahma
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DarkTraveler777 wrote:I am not arguing that the DM's solution is the only one available, but given the context of the group dynamic and the situation at hand at the time I think the outcome worked.
I'm sure it was one of those "guess you had to be there" situations. I mean, Yeah ...
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/10/09 21:16:28
Subject: Re:Website writes article titled "MISOGYNY AND THE FEMALE BODY IN DUNGEONS & DRAGONS"
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Badass "Sister Sin"
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Another important lesson to learn in D&D (besides the fact that Rape is not okay) is that you can't just attack anything and live. I would have let them do it, if they were that dumb, let them die horribly or be knocked out and geas'd into doing what the wizard wanted and taught them a lesson that there are bigger fish in the sea.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/10/09 21:19:23
Subject: Website writes article titled "MISOGYNY AND THE FEMALE BODY IN DUNGEONS & DRAGONS"
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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pretre wrote:I just don't think it really changed the situation. Basically, rape is still funny, just not when it is against the NPCs.
Except that isn't what happened, is it? Rape was no longer brought up in our group. It stopped being a punchline. I'd like to think because us players realized that rape is not funny when it is directed at you (or your character) which made us grow a little as people. Sure, you could argue that it was a bad lesson and we stopped making rape jokes so our characters could keep our penises but, again, I don't think that is how our group framed the encounter.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/10/09 21:21:09
Subject: Re:Website writes article titled "MISOGYNY AND THE FEMALE BODY IN DUNGEONS & DRAGONS"
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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pretre wrote: DarkTraveler777 wrote:Yeah, gak gets weird in games, right?
Still, if you were running a game for a bunch of 15 year old's and one of them tried to " LOL rape" an NPC, how would you handle it? I think the DM did a fine job on the fly of knocking some sense into a group of idiot boys.
The character was pretty good at pick pocket but since a major NPC was his intended mark he was immediately spotted by the wizard and rebuked. Agitated, the player made a threat to the DM saying something to the effect of "okay, I take off my pants and grab her" and the DM, without missing a beat, nodded and said, "Okay, the wizard sees you undress, mutters an incantation and points at you. Since your pants are around your ankles, you fail your reflex save and are frozen in place. The wizards turns to your companions and says 'If this fool is with you, you can consider our agreement off. I do not deal with amateurs.'"
Underlined part is mine.
The players then are left with a roleplaying predicament. How do they smooth over the actions of their asinine friend with this major NPC?
edit: You'll notice mine doesn't shift the rape from one person to another, but removes it entirely once the pants are dropped.
You're more forgiving than I am. My version would have look something similar to this.
The character was pretty good at pick pocket but since a major NPC was his intended mark he was immediately spotted by the wizard and rebuked. Agitated, the player made a threat to the DM saying something to the effect of "okay, I take off my pants and grab her" and the DM, without missing a beat, nodded and said, "Okay, the wizard sees you undress, mutters an incantation and points at you. The entire party watches as your body is disintegrated and your ashes scattered to the winds."
But I'm a fan of resurrection-less death for the irredeemable.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/10/09 21:22:17
Subject: Website writes article titled "MISOGYNY AND THE FEMALE BODY IN DUNGEONS & DRAGONS"
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[MOD]
Solahma
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Maybe this will be a mechanic in Sixth Edition?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/10/09 21:23:42
Subject: Website writes article titled "MISOGYNY AND THE FEMALE BODY IN DUNGEONS & DRAGONS"
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Hallowed Canoness
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Manchu wrote:I'm with pretre on this one. Rape is not the answer to rape.
And neither is it the answer to, I guess, anything at all.
(Except for, of course, some actual questions. But then it is the word rape, not the action of raping. Like in “What is the English translation for «viol»”. So it is different.)
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"Our fantasy settings are grim and dark, but that is not a reflection of who we are or how we feel the real world should be. [...] We will continue to diversify the cast of characters we portray [...] so everyone can find representation and heroes they can relate to. [...] If [you don't feel the same way], you will not be missed"
https://twitter.com/WarComTeam/status/1268665798467432449/photo/1 |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/10/09 21:23:44
Subject: Re:Website writes article titled "MISOGYNY AND THE FEMALE BODY IN DUNGEONS & DRAGONS"
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Manchu wrote: DarkTraveler777 wrote:I am not arguing that the DM's solution is the only one available, but given the context of the group dynamic and the situation at hand at the time I think the outcome worked.
I'm sure it was one of those "guess you had to be there" situations. I mean, Yeah ...
Sorry, your indignation at what occurred in a game 17 years ago is silly to me. The DM took a ridiculous action undertaken by a player and made it an example of how not to behave in the game. In hindsight could that lesson have been applied differently? Sure. But at the time it worked. The game didn't devolve into a rape scene, nor did it involve a TPK and restarting of the campaign.
As an adult I understand your objections to the lesson, but at the time, while I was at the table it ended the discussion of rape and upon further reflection I think it was a shrewd move on the DM's part because any soap-boxing he may have done to teach us about the horrors of rape likely would have been laughed off.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/10/09 21:26:55
Subject: Re:Website writes article titled "MISOGYNY AND THE FEMALE BODY IN DUNGEONS & DRAGONS"
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[MOD]
Solahma
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Did I give the impression of indignation? Sorry, I meant something closer to
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