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Olgerth Istaarn wrote: I would not at all mind if "survivors of Black Rage" became a thing. BA have been searching for an end to it for millennia. Perhaps they are beginning to find it. A glimmer of hope for the chapter is a lot more interesting than preserving Mephiston's special snowflake status.
This codex has me more excited than any non-model release since the Turd Edition (6th) dropped.
The cure for the Red Thirst is apparently what Shield of Baal: Deathstorm is about. The planetary governor of Phodia is supposedly the key to a cure for the chapter. Captain Karlaen leads a team to recover the governor no matter the cost.
The WDW this weekend suggests that we MAY be getting some terminator love for the sons of sanguinius. The 1st company is called "The Arch-angels". Who knows, we may get some blinged up terminators?
I just hope we get something that harkens to our supposed superiority as drop troops. As it stands right now, our Assault marines are more expensive than "regular" Marines, our Death Company jump packs are ridiculously, prohibitively over-priced, and our Vanguard Veterans cannot be accompanied by Dante. I am really hoping for a return to our old Vanguard rule, where they can drop, on target, and assault immediately. Maybe these Archangels can do this, or something equally cool.
I mean, I picked the army for the fluff, long ago, was living in Africa, never got to play with them in the edition where they were good, and then have pretty much had my butt handed to me ever since. So, I am hoping for better Sanguinary Guard/Vanguard veterans rather than more Terminators. Flamers and Grav guns don't strike me as very BA in terms of fluff, so maybe they have put some work into the jump troops. No indication of that so far, of course, but the name "Archangel" gives me hope.
5000 pts High Elves 4000 pts, Warriors of Chaos 4000 pts, Dwarfs 3000 pts, Wood Elves and Greenskins too
Thought for the ages: What is the Riddle of Steel?
th3maninblak wrote: A 2+/5++ dude with feel no pain, ws5, rage and furious charge would be awesome, no doubt. But we're talking about the end of the imperium here. Anything is possible.
You mean Lone Wolves?
you forgot to add 2 wounds and cheap as dirt
A Lone wolf, WS5, Fnp, monster hunter, W2 in terminator armor with SB and power sword is 50 points. Trade out monster hunter for rage, make a unit of 5 cost ~260 points, and I think that would be about fair.
The Space Marine Legion list has some very cool unique terminator variants that 40k could use more of IMO.
Gotta start somewhere, why not here?
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I asked for 2 things from the new Blood Angels Codex, Grav weapons and Centurions.
Grav Guns ! Check !
Centurions ? I guess we'll have to wait 3 weeks to find out.
Why do I care ? I have 9 Centurions waiting to find out what chapter they belong to.
If BA get fast attack drop pods like Space Wolves, and I don't see why they shouldn't, and I'll be doing a little happy dance.
th3maninblak wrote: Our tac marines getting grav guns and heavy flamers is cool. But you know what would be cooler? Assault marines with heavy flamers.
So far this release has been awesome. And we should know what happened to DoA and the red thirst when someone gets a copy of Deathstorm in hand.
I'm more interested to see if we get the next generation of Grav-weapons.
Vanilla has the rifle for foot boys and bikers, and the cannon with amp on Centurions.
Will we see more wide spread use of grav weapons? Attack bikes, dreads, razorbacks, predator sponsons, devastators with grav-cannons? Or will they not be willing to make rules for units that do not have models again after the whole chapter house fiasco?
So BA want to be Vanilla marines +1 again? I'm already mad enough that BA are getting grav guns and heavy flamers in Tac Squads. Salamanders would have loved Heavy Flamer tacs.
In exchange for grav guns, next codex around, vanilla marines and probably DA deserve access to hand flamers and/or infernus pistols at the least.
And centurions too? Maybe if Vanilla get the Librarian Dreadnought and Baal predator.
New uses of the Grav guns should not go to the BA, but to chapters that do not have their own book and models. make grav weapons say an Iron Hands specialty. Redo the dreadnought kit to add a grav cannon/amp arm for vanilla marines.
I hear you, and agree. Let the Chapters be differentiated by their gear, as much as their color of armor. That kind of thinking has led me to add a DA contingent to my BA, and I am thinking of Iron Hands for some anti-air support and Techmarine shooting. So, limiting grav guns makes sense. And yes, why would BA have heavy flamers on Tactical squads, but not Salamanders? Doesn't make sense. And as I said, I want jump troops...but no sign that anything cool or different is happening there.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2014/12/01 02:26:08
5000 pts High Elves 4000 pts, Warriors of Chaos 4000 pts, Dwarfs 3000 pts, Wood Elves and Greenskins too
Thought for the ages: What is the Riddle of Steel?
th3maninblak wrote: A 2+/5++ dude with feel no pain, ws5, rage and furious charge would be awesome, no doubt. But we're talking about the end of the imperium here. Anything is possible.
You mean Lone Wolves?
you forgot to add 2 wounds and cheap as dirt
A Lone wolf, WS5, Fnp, monster hunter, W2 in terminator armor with SB and power sword is 50 points. Trade out monster hunter for rage, make a unit of 5 cost ~260 points, and I think that would be about fair.
The Space Marine Legion list has some very cool unique terminator variants that 40k could use more of IMO.
So BA want to be Vanilla marines +1 again? I'm already mad enough that BA are getting grav guns and heavy flamers in Tac Squads. Salamanders would have loved Heavy Flamer tacs.
In exchange for grav guns, next codex around, vanilla marines and probably DA deserve access to hand flamers and/or infernus pistols at the least.
And centurions too? Maybe if Vanilla get the Librarian Dreadnought and Baal predator.
New uses of the Grav guns should not go to the BA, but to chapters that do not have their own book and models. make grav weapons say an Iron Hands specialty. Redo the dreadnought kit to add a grav cannon/amp arm for vanilla marines.
They don't have to be Vanilla +1 if it's balanced and priced properly.
What makes the current SM codex so kick ass is a lot of solid units, magnified in power by their chapter tactics. If BA get the same kickass units they probably won't be as good in optimal situations as Vanilla would be. If BA get a biker spam list like vanilla it probably won't be as good as a White Scar list. It's pod lists probably won't be better than Salamanders. It's armor wall won't beat out Iron Hands. BA will have to concentrate on what makes it better than Vanilla to remain relevant, mainly Jump marines, fast vehicles and unique units. Lets face it, the new books will always have the new stuff, but a long as it's balanced and reasonably fair it shouldn't matter. Especially in the era of allies and unbound.
I'm not exactly super impressed by BA getting the heavy flamer or grav gun either, I'd have preferred something unique, and Vanilla SHOULD have gotten the heavy flamer....it's insulting to Salamander players that it isn't. If they are going to give BA access to grav weapons then they might as well do it properly, and take the next step in grav evolution in the mean time.
As for Centurions, I personally hope we get something more interesting instead.
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OIIIIIIO wrote: That was the fluff for the BA getting Land Raiders as a DT .... they have so many that they actually just drop them from the sky, sometimes with guys inside of them.
"Our Land Raiders will blot out the sun!"
"Then we shall fight in the... wait, what?"
th3maninblak wrote: A 2+/5++ dude with feel no pain, ws5, rage and furious charge would be awesome, no doubt. But we're talking about the end of the imperium here. Anything is possible.
You mean Lone Wolves?
you forgot to add 2 wounds and cheap as dirt
A Lone wolf, WS5, Fnp, monster hunter, W2 in terminator armor with SB and power sword is 50 points. Trade out monster hunter for rage, make a unit of 5 cost ~260 points, and I think that would be about fair.
The Space Marine Legion list has some very cool unique terminator variants that 40k could use more of IMO.
Gotta start somewhere, why not here?
Im not bashing, but 260 points seems cheap for a 2+/5++ 2 wound squad of melee deep striking or storm raven assault vehicle turn 2 group. 260 is reasonable for 1W each but I would go as far as 350 points for a fully kitted squad with those stats.
They always were, until the 6E SM codex came out. I don't know why you woundn't see it coming when they got their own 7E codex
In exchange for grav guns, next codex around, vanilla marines and probably DA deserve access to hand flamers and/or infernus pistols at the least.
Done. They can also have conversion beamers, and any other weapons from 2E that haven't ported over yet.
And centurions too? Maybe if Vanilla get the Librarian Dreadnought and Baal predator.
Done. I honestly don't know why vanilla marines do not have Dreadnaught Librarians.
Baal Predator too, what's so damned complicated about putting a twin linked assault cannon on a Predator ?
New uses of the Grav guns should not go to the BA, but to chapters that do not have their own book and models. make grav weapons say an Iron Hands specialty. Redo the dreadnought kit to add a grav cannon/amp arm for vanilla marines.
Who get's what gun has never been the deciding factor in SM chapters. There has always been Vanilla Marines and Not soo Vanilla Marines, with not soo vanilla marines having all of vanilla marines stuff plus their own extra special stuff.
OIIIIIIO wrote: That was the fluff for the BA getting Land Raiders as a DT .... they have so many that they actually just drop them from the sky, sometimes with guys inside of them.
"Our Land Raiders will blot out the sun!"
"Then we shall fight in the... wait, what?"
EXALTED !!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/12/01 02:41:32
So BA want to be Vanilla marines +1 again? I'm already mad enough that BA are getting grav guns and heavy flamers in Tac Squads. Salamanders would have loved Heavy Flamer tacs.
In exchange for grav guns, next codex around, vanilla marines and probably DA deserve access to hand flamers and/or infernus pistols at the least.
And centurions too? Maybe if Vanilla get the Librarian Dreadnought and Baal predator.
New uses of the Grav guns should not go to the BA, but to chapters that do not have their own book and models. make grav weapons say an Iron Hands specialty. Redo the dreadnought kit to add a grav cannon/amp arm for vanilla marines.
They don't have to be Vanilla +1 if it's balanced and priced properly.
What makes the current SM codex so kick ass is a lot of solid units, magnified in power by their chapter tactics. If BA get the same kickass units they probably won't be as good in optimal situations as Vanilla would be. If BA get a biker spam list like vanilla it probably won't be as good as a White Scar list. It's pod lists probably won't be better than Salamanders. It's armor wall won't beat out Iron Hands. BA will have to concentrate on what makes it better than Vanilla to remain relevant, mainly Jump marines, fast vehicles and unique units. Lets face it, the new books will always have the new stuff, but a long as it's balanced and reasonably fair it shouldn't matter. Especially in the era of allies and unbound.
I'm not exactly super impressed by BA getting the heavy flamer or grav gun either, I'd have preferred something unique, and Vanilla SHOULD have gotten the heavy flamer....it's insulting to Salamander players that it isn't. If they are going to give BA access to grav weapons then they might as well do it properly, and take the next step in grav evolution in the mean time.
As for Centurions, I personally hope we get something more interesting instead.
Nice reply, man. I hear you. I just think that perhaps as we continue to transition as a society to e-Pubs and digital versions of publications (in this case, Codex/Army Books) some of these "fixes" will become easier to utilize. That way they can take care of some of this by simply adding a unit to the digital version of the rulebook,, like the Centurions, or a weapon, like the grav gun. That way they COULD give Salamanders access to Heavy Flamers following the decision to do that to BA, and make everyone happy.
I still am hoping for more differentiation, so that playing a different chapter will require a different play style. One thing I don't like about the new SM book is the ability to "adopt" the Chapter tactics that catch your fancy...like a Blood Ravens list I played this summer that used the White Scars tactics and had bike and flyer spam. I mean, you should go White Scars if that's what you like; I feel the same about Blood Angels. I like the idea that they have semi-suicidal ragers charging forward, and then precise surgical strikes from above, with fast vehicles racing up to seize objectives or deposit troops in key locations. But we don't even have more than one type of Flyer...which all other SM do now...and our Jump Troops suck. So, I really hope they attend to this.
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Thought for the ages: What is the Riddle of Steel?
Im not bashing, but 260 points seems cheap for a 2+/5++ 2 wound squad of melee deep striking or storm raven assault vehicle turn 2 group. 260 is reasonable for 1W each but I would go as far as 350 points for a fully kitted squad with those stats.
Well, erm....you are wrong.
Think 5 Paladins w/apothecary (295 points), but strip off all the psychic powers and force weapons, frag, krak and psyk-out grenades, the aegis and PE demons and 260 isn't unfair, 275 might fly, but 300 is way too much. 350 is out to lunch, and 250 might be a little on the cheap sit.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/12/01 02:57:42
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OIIIIIIO wrote: That was the fluff for the BA getting Land Raiders as a DT .... they have so many that they actually just drop them from the sky, sometimes with guys inside of them.
"Our Land Raiders will blot out the sun!"
"Then we shall fight in the... wait, what?"
LOL ... Thing about them being DT and having DS ... I only ever DS one once ... after that I thought about it and disagreed with the LR coming in from reserves that way. Have never done it since.
When I did DS it, I told the guy that everything I had was DS'ing (5th ed).. he paid little attention. He was playing Tau and put all of his stuff in one corner. I had a 14 man DC with a Chappy inside the LR and put it about 3 inches in front of his entire army. He asked what I was doing and I told him my LR had DS. His response was pure gold: Oh, ok I just thought ... WHAT? They can DS?!?
OT: The whole terminator/Honour Guard thing reminds me of that rumour about the ones called Blood Brothers ... wonder if they are the ones that came back from the Rage and they put them in TDA. If so .... thinking 2 wounds WS5?
Now, we like big books. (And we cannot lie. You other readers can’t deny, a book flops open with an itty-bitty font, and a map that’s in your face, you get—sorry! Sorry!)
Im not bashing, but 260 points seems cheap for a 2+/5++ 2 wound squad of melee deep striking or storm raven assault vehicle turn 2 group. 260 is reasonable for 1W each but I would go as far as 350 points for a fully kitted squad with those stats.
Well, erm....you are wrong.
Think 5 Paladins w/apothecary (295 points), but strip off all the psychic powers and force weapons, frag, krak and psyk-out grenades, the aegis and PE demons and 260 isn't unfair. 350 is out to lunch, and 250 might be a little on the cheap sit.
Paladins are in general a unit that most players groan at in their cheese/cost ratio.
You are talking WS5 2 attacks + rage, charge and weapon bonus possible in the back line at turn 2. Squishy armies are going to get crunched, Basilisk gun lines, hideaway tanks etc.
350 was kitted, so 5 termies with fists, claws, shields hammers and swords. Lets kit em how I would as a BA player.
5x termies WS5 2Wounds, FNP, Rage and Monster Hunter. 2Attacks and 2+/5++
1 Double LC, 1 PS/SB, 2 PF/SB 1 TH/SB.
That, in a single charging round is 16 attacks not including your rage per model all but one model at AP2 and he has shred
350 points for this isn't out of the question when (and I don't see this happening personally) the base model we were talking about was 50points without upgrades.
Im not bashing, but 260 points seems cheap for a 2+/5++ 2 wound squad of melee deep striking or storm raven assault vehicle turn 2 group. 260 is reasonable for 1W each but I would go as far as 350 points for a fully kitted squad with those stats.
Well, erm....you are wrong.
Think 5 Paladins w/apothecary (295 points), but strip off all the psychic powers and force weapons, frag, krak and psyk-out grenades, the aegis and PE demons and 260 isn't unfair. 350 is out to lunch, and 250 might be a little on the cheap sit.
Paladins are in general a unit that most players groan at in their cheese/cost ratio.
You are talking WS5 2 attacks + rage, charge and weapon bonus possible in the back line at turn 2. Squishy armies are going to get crunched, Basilisk gun lines, hideaway tanks etc.
350 was kitted, so 5 termies with fists, claws, shields hammers and swords. Lets kit em how I would as a BA player.
5x termies WS5 2Wounds, FNP, Rage and Monster Hunter. 2Attacks and 2+/5++
1 Double LC, 1 PS/SB, 2 PF/SB 1 TH/SB.
That, in a single charging round is 16 attacks not including your rage per model all but one model at AP2 and he has shred
350 points for this isn't out of the question when (and I don't see this happening personally) the base model we were talking about was 50points without upgrades.
I suppose, but at 350 points for the squad you'd be looking at 70 points per model, or 35 points per terminator wound. That's too high, especially in a world with 30-33 point GK and Chaos terminators and 25 point honor guard. Personally I'd just go all power axes and let the S6 AP2 carry the day for me to save points. Also, 16 attacks isn't anything to write home about. Also, they wouldn't be in melee turn 2, unless your opponent charges them or advances on one of your land raiders or something, as deepstriking or coming in via flyer means no charge on T2.
I don't know if people are up in arms over paladins anymore now that their wound allocation shenanigans from 5th edition are long gone.
Red butcher terminators are 275 for 5 guys, WS5, W2, 2+/4++, 6+ FnP, with rage, hatred and 2 power axes, so 5 S5 AP2 attacks each on the charge....for 55 each, and each additional costing 45 points (so call is 50 each). They are hardly out of line in the grander scheme of things.
Lets face it here...it's still a 5+ invul melee unit that will be splattered by S8+ AP2 fire power and needs either a super expensive ride or to risk deep striking into the game.
Regardless, we are a ways off-topic, so lets drop it for now, or take it elsewhere.
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BoomWolf wrote: Only codex marines got them AFAIK, and honestly I like the fact that not every marine codex has the same stuff available to it, makes the fact you got 5 different loyalist marine armies not feel as overdone.
It does not feel overdone?
Do not worry, you will get blood-gravguns! Much unique, very original.
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I suppose, but at 350 points for the squad you'd be looking at 70 points per model, or 35 points per terminator wound. That's too high, especially in a world with 30-33 point GK and Chaos terminators and 25 point honor guard. Personally I'd just go all power axes and let the S6 AP2 carry the day for me to save points. Also, 16 attacks isn't anything to write home about. Also, they wouldn't be in melee turn 2, unless your opponent charges them or advances on one of your land raiders or something, as deepstriking or coming in via flyer means no charge on T2.
I don't know if people are up in arms over paladins anymore now that their wound allocation shenanigans from 5th edition are long gone.
Red butcher terminators are 275 for 5 guys, WS5, W2, 2+/4++, 6+ FnP, with rage, hatred and 2 power axes, so 5 S5 AP2 attacks each on the charge....for 55 each, and each additional costing 45 points (so call is 50 each). They are hardly out of line in the grander scheme of things.
Lets face it here...it's still a 5+ invul melee unit that will be splattered by S8+ AP2 fire power and needs either a super expensive ride or to risk deep striking into the game.
Regardless, we are a ways off-topic, so lets drop it for now, or take it elsewhere.
150 for 3 models minimum, 50 for each additional. 2+/5++ 5+FNP WS5, 2 wounds, 2 attack base with rage and Fist/Storm Bolter with access to swap fist for a hammer or chain fist for 5 pts, or both for claws at 5pts would be reasonable. No reason they should be armed any differently from terminators. And they shouldn't get access to Storm Shields.
I suppose, but at 350 points for the squad you'd be looking at 70 points per model, or 35 points per terminator wound. That's too high, especially in a world with 30-33 point GK and Chaos terminators and 25 point honor guard. Personally I'd just go all power axes and let the S6 AP2 carry the day for me to save points. Also, 16 attacks isn't anything to write home about. Also, they wouldn't be in melee turn 2, unless your opponent charges them or advances on one of your land raiders or something, as deepstriking or coming in via flyer means no charge on T2.
I don't know if people are up in arms over paladins anymore now that their wound allocation shenanigans from 5th edition are long gone.
Red butcher terminators are 275 for 5 guys, WS5, W2, 2+/4++, 6+ FnP, with rage, hatred and 2 power axes, so 5 S5 AP2 attacks each on the charge....for 55 each, and each additional costing 45 points (so call is 50 each). They are hardly out of line in the grander scheme of things.
Lets face it here...it's still a 5+ invul melee unit that will be splattered by S8+ AP2 fire power and needs either a super expensive ride or to risk deep striking into the game.
Regardless, we are a ways off-topic, so lets drop it for now, or take it elsewhere.
Why is 35 points per terminator wound with WS5 too much? I already pay 40 points per WS4 terminator wound in my vanilla army.
adamsouza wrote: When your flying to battle in a strike cruiser and 6 hours before planet fall you succumb to the Black Rage, it's not like they have a bunch of suits lying around for you to change into.
If you showed up to battle in Terminator Armor, you fight in terminator armor.
I'm pretty sure 1st Company Vets have Power Armour as standard, and TDA is issued on a mission by mission basis. I think the Deathwing and Grey Knights are the only forces with sufficient suits to let everyone have one.
A full strength Codex Astartes Chapter should have 100+ suits of Terminator Armor. 20, 5 man, squads plus what ever their leaders are wearing.
Should but don't. As noted in the Grey Knight 5th Ed Codex, most chapters only have a handful of functional suits. Some of the older, Legion chapters might have a few score (around 60ish) to outfit some of their 5th Company.
As exceptions to that, the Minotaurs are noted as have a plentiful supply, and the Dark Angels who's Deathwing fight in TDA exclusively, and the Grey Knights who can outfit nearly everyone.
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2014/12/01 07:39:41
Subject: Re:Blood Angels Rumours First post updated 31/11/2014
Did 5th edition Grey Knights codex mention Centurions and Gravguns ?
Yeah, I'll take the info from the 2nd,3rd,4th,5th,6th, and 7th edition Space Marine Codexes on pretty much anything Space Marine related over what the Matt Ward 5th Edition Grey Knights Codex has to say.
OIIIIIIO wrote: That was the fluff for the BA getting Land Raiders as a DT .... they have so many that they actually just drop them from the sky, sometimes with guys inside of them.
"Our Land Raiders will blot out the sun!"
"Then we shall fight in the... wait, what?"
Y'know, I cringe when you post usually, but this made me spit coffee all over my work computer. Well done sir, have an exalt!
Shadowkeepers (4000 points)
3rd Company (3000 points)
Frankenberry wrote: Y'know, I cringe when you post usually, but this made me spit coffee all over my work computer. Well done sir, have an exalt!
Thanks for the backhanded compliment... I guess...
I prefer to be honest, that way the compliment means just that much more because of it.
Anyhow, OT, aside from infantry and the codex vehicles BA should be getting access to, has anyone considered any ideas for a new vehicle? Might seem silly, just crossed my mind though.
Shadowkeepers (4000 points)
3rd Company (3000 points)
Quarterdime wrote: Those new tacticals look ballin'. I was thinking that they should have gone with terminators, but tacticals are a good place to go, too.
...they look the same as death company with bolters only painted red.
arnt they too blinged to be tacticals? they look more like veterans to me.
it will be hard to tell what's what. bling everywhere. the only thing differentiating anything will be the paint job.
Well unless the fluff changed Blood Angels tacticals are supposed to be the highest power-armored infantry rank in the Blood Angels.
They always were, until the 6E SM codex came out. I don't know why you woundn't see it coming when they got their own 7E codex
In exchange for grav guns, next codex around, vanilla marines and probably DA deserve access to hand flamers and/or infernus pistols at the least.
Done. They can also have conversion beamers, and any other weapons from 2E that haven't ported over yet.
And centurions too? Maybe if Vanilla get the Librarian Dreadnought and Baal predator.
Done. I honestly don't know why vanilla marines do not have Dreadnaught Librarians.
Baal Predator too, what's so damned complicated about putting a twin linked assault cannon on a Predator ?
New uses of the Grav guns should not go to the BA, but to chapters that do not have their own book and models. make grav weapons say an Iron Hands specialty. Redo the dreadnought kit to add a grav cannon/amp arm for vanilla marines.
Who get's what gun has never been the deciding factor in SM chapters. There has always been Vanilla Marines and Not soo Vanilla Marines, with not soo vanilla marines having all of vanilla marines stuff plus their own extra special stuff.
Well if the special snowflakes get everything that vanilla Marines get, then why play vanilla Marines? "Because you painted yours bright green, you're honor bound to play with the vanilla book!"?
The codex-hopping bullgak that Marine players pulled in 5th edition was annoying enough, always changing horses every time a new and seemingly better Marine book came out...Crimson Fists suddenly became Blood Angels which then turned into Space Wolves, and then it was about a 50/50 chance for those Space Wolves to turn into Grey Knights, or just keep tabling everyone with SW since they were still pretty awesome. If you literally just copy/pasted the Marine codex for every off-shoot and added the extra stuff to it to make them BA, SW or whatever, then there would be literally no point in playing with the vanilla codex anymore, because you couldn't do anything with it that you couldn't do with one of the other books, and better.
Much easier to just get rid of all the special snowflake codices instead, and force everyone to go back to using the vanilla codex, since despite all the outrage at even the merest suggestion that GW do that, it's apparently what you want anyway...then start producing $50 supplements for all the "special" chapters and Grey Knights instead with all their special characters, their own Chapter Tactics, and unique units (all massively nerfed of course to make up for the fact that you get all the goodies vanilla Marines get now). "But why should I have to buy two books to play my army?! That's not fair!" Because you want to be Space Marines and Blood Angels instead of one or the other, you basically are asking GW to give you two books for the price of one.
If you really think your army is different enough from vanilla Marines to justify having its own book, and you want them to have all this neat stuff Marines don't have and to be considered a separate army altogether in all respects, then you have to take the good along with the bad. You don't get to have everything, and if you want it that badly then pay for it, I say. If grav centurions are something you need to play with that badly, and you don't care enough about any of the stuff that BA have access to instead, then maybe you're just playing the wrong army?
Or just play Unbound and play literally whatever the hell you want, since that's an option now. Cherry pick the best crap from every book, paint it red, and go nuts.
"But then I don't have obsec!"
...
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2014/12/01 08:36:56
Desubot wrote: Why isnt Slut Wars: The Sexpocalypse a real game dammit.
"It's easier to change the rules than to get good at the game."
Well if the special snowflakes get everything that vanilla Marines get, then why play vanilla Marines? "Because you painted yours bright green, you're honor bound to play with the vanilla book!"? ...
1.) There really are no more vanilla marines because of Chapter Tactics, only different types of special snowflakes.
2.) Codex Marines have access to the Hunter, Stalker, Thunderfire Cannon, Centurion Armor, Ironclad Dreadnaught, Venerable Dreadnaught, Storm Talon Gunship, Land Speeder Storm, Grav Guns, and most importantly Chapter Tactics.
3.) Most people I know pick their marine chapter based on it's looks, it's fluff, or it's Chapter Tactics.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/12/01 09:03:55
I think that the other Space Marine factions should have their own librarian dreadnaught. It shouldn't be a problem if you give them different abilities based on which codex they're in. Also, Baal Predators can get the usual "divergent pattern" mechanicus talk.
2014/12/01 09:03:48
Subject: Blood Angels Rumours First post updated 31/11/2014
I think 5th ed was really good for marine balance until grey knights, honestly. The late 5th ed FAQ for dark angels gave them a place in the scene, vanilla marines had some really strong builds and a lot of viable options, and space wolves/blood angels were both really unique. So far with the new books, Dark Angels are fine (a bit underpowered, but still a fun and rewarding army), grey knights were fixed and brought to a level in line with everyone else, vanilla marines have one of the best and most versatile books of all time, and space wolves have EASILY the strongest of the 7th ed books.
If BA can keep their unique feel and be brought out of the dark ages after 2 editions of a savage nerf bat assault, then we can get back to the balance that was 5th ed.
Though i still have a fools hope that this new BA dex will kick the gak out of tau and eldar.
5,000
:cficon: 1,500
2014/12/01 09:13:18
Subject: Blood Angels Rumours First post updated 31/11/2014
Though i still have a fools hope that this new BA dex will kick the gak out of tau and eldar.
I don't think that will happen.
Even with point reductions, and the addition of Grav Weapons, Blood Angels are still an assault heavy army in a shooty edition.
Although there is hope if they get Fast Attack Drop Pods and Centurions. Then you can Drop Pod in Grav Cannon Centurions into the enemy's depolyment zone
7th Edition seems to be getting away from the dedicated transports section in the army list, to end objective secured drop pod nonsense, etc..
7th Edition Space Wolves have their drop pods listed under Fast Attack now, so there is a precedent.
7th Edition Blood Angels are getting Grav weapons.
All 7th Edition Blood Angels need is access to Centurions.
5000 pts High Elves 4000 pts, Warriors of Chaos 4000 pts, Dwarfs 3000 pts, Wood Elves and Greenskins too
5,000
- 5000+
- 4000+
- 2500+ 
Shadowkeepers (4000 points)
3rd Company (3000 points) 
