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Man oh man, I love these releases.

That I will never use.

Because I prefer my Flesh Tearers to have the barest hints of their lineage, due to the fact that their chapter is so heavily depleted and constantly in the front line that it doesn't seem reasonable to be littered with Blood Angel iconography and bling.

Even the Death Company kit was somewhat viable - the odd bit here and there, avoiding the blatant blood angels icons of using it very sparingly where appropriate....

But the tactical squad...littered with it.
The Terminator squad...littered with it.

Ugh.

Hmmm, Librarian is cool at $30. May get one. Not paying $10 more for some BA molding on Terminators. Better uses of the Elite slot.

Looking forward to seeing these Archangels 1st Company detachments, traits, relics, datasheets, etc. Maybe they'll ease some of my concern over the codex.

Well, like I suspected, the Archangels get their own rules a la the Deathwing.

Wrong place to post this? Or just too early?




I kid, I kid.

Seriously though, as someone with one of the larger Genestealer Cult collections that you'll find, I don't like seeing people's armies squatted or forced to endure radical changes. It sucks and hurts because this hobby demands that we pour so much time into our armies.

However, in this case my sympathy also has its limits. The jump pack assault marines that poeple seem fixated on haven't been invalidated or even nerfed. They're getting *better* -- they're just operating from a different spot of an org chart which is less relevant in 7th edition than it's ever been. Yes, there's the loss of ObSec, but that rule has seemed less and less important every day since 7th was released.

With the 7th edition points decreases that are sure to come, I don't think it's going to be hard for someone with an "all" jump pack army to fit in a couple Scout squads. And that really doesn't represent a major outlay of cash either in this subscription-based hobby that we play. Hell, I'd probably rejigger things and take a hard look at tacticals in drop pods as my troops, but that's just me.

Anyway, I know that a hobbyist can fall into the trap of thinking that the world revolves around "ME" and "MY" mandollies, but the truth of the hobby is that other people have endured much more significant changes to their armies over the years than anything I'm seeing here. This stuff tends to be much more mild on the SM side...try being a xenos player sometime.

Again, I do understand a certain level of frustration, but there's some wild overreaction going on here (not that it hasn't happened with every new codex release ever on Dakka...*cough* Drew Riggio *cough*). And the significant lack of perspective (IMO) revealed by these reactions ultimately doesn't leave me terribly sympathetic.



Edit: In other news, the Exterminatus book looks great. Our club is going to have a lot of fun with the Shield of Baal campaign stuff, I think.

A necron novella eh ?

Adds further credence to the idea of them getting a new codex then yes ?

Seems likely that at least one of the existing special characters will be in that too.


.. Free CoD tactical objectives too eh ?

... Cards that one can cut out and use ?

Might pick the new Shield of Baal book up - really liked the first one - but I bet the hard back will be sold out and on ebay quickly :(

Nice to the Adepta Sororitas are still in it - even if they couldn't be bothered to give them anything (despite being so heavily featured in the 1st book) unlike the Necrons and Blood Angels - who get loads of stuff and seem to be getting a formation on the jump pack company which should be good for players here who are about to throw their entire collection away?

I'll probably be grabbing a copy the newest Shield of Baal. Assuming my local store hasn't gotten rid of my copy of of the first one I keep meaning to pick up.

 Sidstyler wrote:
Just wanted to pop in and remind everyone that I was right. Everyone ignored me or dismissed me as just being "negative" when I tried to warn you that a BA update wouldn't be what you expected, you ignored the obvious trend with every army update ever since Orks came out, but not only did the codex get the predictable "7th edition sidegrade/blandification treatment", it got kicked way harder in the nuts than even I was expecting.

Yes I want a cookie.

TAKE IT! *begins throwing cookies ninja star style*

Something else occurred to me this morning.

Who cares about Troops? 99% of the time, you're going to use the BA Detachment that gives you +1 Init on the charge rather than taking a Combined Arms detachment, so you're not getting Obsec for your compulsory troops anyway.

We're back in 4th edition. Troops are a tax again. Take 2 squads of 5 Scouts, chuck them into reserve, and spend the rest of your points on stuff that's going to run forward and actually kill stuff.

Some strange pricing... Librarian: US $ 30, AU $ 30. Bolg: US $ 45, AU $ 80.

au 30 for a termie character? FISTPUMP!

So str 5 I5 lightning claws sound pretty scary.

Oh boy, Oh boy, Oh boy, Oh boy, Oh boy, Oh boy, Oh boy!!!

That new Shield of Baal book is making my wallet cry because I freakin' loved the first one! And I see some Sororitas artwork in there so I hope they still play a role on it!

Oh dear, I really don't want to miss the hardcover while I'm at it.

 the shrouded lord wrote:
au 30 for a termie character? FISTPUMP!

They forgot a 0. It's $300 AUS

guess why I'm always broke...

NoggintheNog wrote:

 Crimson Devil wrote:

AlexRae wrote:
People dont have tactical marines because they are terrible.

And they continue to be terrible.

So you throw the models away or what? .

Given GW plastic is currently more expensive than beluga caviar per ounce, i would imagine most people sell models they don't want, to fund the criminally priced stuff they do want.

I've bene playing BA since second edition, so I have plenty of stuff to make a legal army, what i don't understand is how people cannot see there are legitimate issues here for people. The BA codex since 4th edition has been built around jump pack assault armies. GW themseelves have pushed players in that direction, deliberately.

There is no excuse for then taking that away, None at all.

Changing armies happens with every new codex, but that doesnt mean take things away from the players, it isnt like we are talking about some uber effective army here, BA have been at the bottom of the pile for a long time, why not give them something extra instead of taking things away.

My problem is that its now so bland. Furious charge army wide sounds great, until you push people into more tactical squads, its as useful as a chocolate fire guard for them.

Its a poor design choice, from a company hemorrhaging players and revenue. In fact its stuff like this that explains precisely why they are.

I'm not disputing this is a dick move by GW. If anything it is a signature move. They do this gak to someone every edition change. GW is not and never will our friend. They have too much contempt for their customer base. This is how they operate and I'm surprise so few of my fellow BA players didn't protect themselves.

Glad I waited it out and didn't sign on for Blood Angels. DC Troops were the whole thing for me.

Kangodo wrote:

 Crimson Devil wrote:
If you build your army to that edition's codex then you will always be screwed over by GW. Happens every time. Build your army with the long view over multiple editions.

Well, better not buy Ork Boyz for Orks because they could move them to elite.
Let's also not buy Terminators for my DA, who knows what will happen to those.
I also own Necrons, should I get rid of my Immortals because they might want to push Warriors as the only Troop-slot?

In short: People are pissed.
People have the right to be pissed, because they aren't able to use the majority of their models.
I was happy because I knew ASM would get a point-cost reduction.
But that is out of the window because I now have to pay a Tactical-tax before I can play those guys.
That is NOT why I play Blood Angels and I am waiting for some FW-model or dataslate to fix this gak.

You can be as pissed as you want be. Why didn't you protect yourself? If you deal with GW then you have to expect this stuff.

I'm sorry, but we're being honest, the only reason people took Assault Squads as Troops under the Wardian steaming turd of codex was because:
a) Ward stupidly gave Assaults the ability to take Meltas/Plasmas, because... "reasons"
b) Ward allowed the removal of Jump Packs to mean you got a 40+pts discount on any Dedicated Transport.

So really, the butthurt here is that your armoured walls of min/maxed transports now perhaps need to snip off a bolt pistol and replace it with a bolter.

And if you were taking nothing but pure Jump Infantry or Death Co., then arguing that your army is now 100% invalidated is rather silly, since I doubt you were playing that force for any kind of serious tourney profits!


The sheer levels of whining here are laughable. A number of BA players are acting like their army just got entirely squatted... You're getting what looks to be an overall solid book! It's not like you're getting a gutted crapheap like what CSM's players got with their 4th edition book that literally did remove over half their options!

 Thud wrote:

 gwarsh41 wrote:
Everyone was all up in arms about SW when the book released. The rumors had it nerfed into the ground and everyone was crying.
The book comes out, SW models hit ebay, then overnight SW become a competitive choice.

Calm your nurps guys. I know 4/5 of you love nothing more than feverishly typing flames, complaints and cries, but it wont do anything. Save yourself the energy of typing out how you are going to go melt your BA army and be patient.

Worst case is that you book sucks as bad as it already does. It will be playable, the sun will still rise, and you will still roll dice.

Great troll. 10/10. Would straw man again.

No one is complaining about competitiveness. No one is whining about being nerfed into the ground.

If words are too hard for you to understand, I have MSPaint and can draw you a nice picture of what people are complaining about.

I exalt the Troll slayer!

Experiment 626 wrote:
I'm sorry, but we're being honest, the only reason people took Assault Squads as Troops under the Wardian steaming turd of codex was because:
a) Ward stupidly gave Assaults the ability to take Meltas/Plasmas, because... "reasons"
b) Ward allowed the removal of Jump Packs to mean you got a 40+pts discount on any Dedicated Transport.

So really, the butthurt here is that your armoured walls of min/maxed transports now perhaps need to snip off a bolt pistol and replace it with a bolter.

And if you were taking nothing but pure Jump Infantry or Death Co., then arguing that your army is now 100% invalidated is rather silly, since I doubt you were playing that force for any kind of serious tourney profits!


The sheer levels of whining here are laughable. A number of BA players are acting like their army just got entirely squatted... You're getting what looks to be an overall solid book! It's not like you're getting a gutted crapheap like what CSM's players got with their 4th edition book that literally did remove over half their options!

Don't be rude and obnoxious. What it amounts to is that people built armies around one of only two defining characteristics that set this army apart for three editions of BOTH the game and the codex (WD, WD Revised 5th ed, 5th ed codex) and GW decided to get rid of one of those two because they're pushing a kit that nobody wants or asked for. You're kidding yourself if you think "game balance" has anything to do with it in the era of unbound, battleforged "armies" from 6 different sources, and superheavies in 1000pt games. GW simply made their money from the assault marines and needs a new influx of cash to prop up the next 6 months of dimishing profits so they decided to screw over 10 years worth of players. If that is something you don't just accept but actually applaud, well.. that speaks to your character.

I actually didn't like the idea of assault marines as troops when they introduced it but it simply has been a part of the rules and the fluff now for three editions of the game and the army. My troops may have been gutted (I lost 3 of my 6 troops choices with the death co and assault marine slot changes) but I'm lucky in that my army predates the changes and I have tacticals for both fluff and crunch reasons back in 3rd edition. That doesn't mean that screwing over players who simply followed the defining army building characteristic of the Blood Angels (complete jump armies) for almost 10 years is in any way fair. It's not.

Yes, let's praise the abrasive nerd for being condescending to people making reasonable posts. The internet needs more brave crusaders like Thud making sure that everyone that disagrees with them is labeled a troll.

Experiment 626 wrote:
I'm sorry, but we're being honest, the only reason people took Assault Squads as Troops under the Wardian steaming turd of codex was because:
a) Ward stupidly gave Assaults the ability to take Meltas/Plasmas, because... "reasons"
b) Ward allowed the removal of Jump Packs to mean you got a 40+pts discount on any Dedicated Transport.

So really, the butthurt here is that your armoured walls of min/maxed transports now perhaps need to snip off a bolt pistol and replace it with a bolter.

And if you were taking nothing but pure Jump Infantry or Death Co., then arguing that your army is now 100% invalidated is rather silly, since I doubt you were playing that force for any kind of serious tourney profits!


The sheer levels of whining here are laughable. A number of BA players are acting like their army just got entirely squatted... You're getting what looks to be an overall solid book! It's not like you're getting a gutted crapheap like what CSM's players got with their 4th edition book that literally did remove over half their options!

Again with this crap?

Seriously? And it's all from people in countries where English is the native language. Are words that hard? Or is it too hard to respond to real arguments, so you have to make up your own? "Hurr-durr, you're all just WAAC players and now you got what was coming to you! Look how smart I am! Sophistry! Le win!"

Not everyone is WAAC. Claiming that everyone only took jump pack troops because "competitive durr" is ludicrous. Especially after BA having been bottom of the heap for the last three years, with the only semblance of competitiveness in BA staying the hell away from Assault Marines as much as possible.

Again; I can just pick up a couple of Tactical Squads, but then I'm basically playing Space Marines, aren't I? And mightn't there be a reason why I didn't just do that in the first place?

And finally; "others have had it worse" is a poor argument. Yes, Chaos got gutted. But guess what, Squats got removed altogether, so now no one can express any negative thoughts about the Design Studio ever again! Ha! Logic!

 plastictrees wrote:
Yes, let's praise the abrasive nerd for being condescending to people making reasonable posts. The internet needs more brave crusaders like Thud making sure that everyone that disagrees with them is labeled a troll.

Straw man arguments and schadenfraude aren't reasonable.

And I just adore how you're criticizing me for ad hominems in the very same sentence you're doing the same thing.

Experiment 626 wrote:
I'm sorry, but we're being honest, the only reason people took Assault Squads as Troops under the Wardian steaming turd of codex was because:
a) Ward stupidly gave Assaults the ability to take Meltas/Plasmas, because... "reasons"
b) Ward allowed the removal of Jump Packs to mean you got a 40+pts discount on any Dedicated Transport.

So really, the butthurt here is that your armoured walls of min/maxed transports now perhaps need to snip off a bolt pistol and replace it with a bolter.

And if you were taking nothing but pure Jump Infantry or Death Co., then arguing that your army is now 100% invalidated is rather silly, since I doubt you were playing that force for any kind of serious tourney profits!


The sheer levels of whining here are laughable. A number of BA players are acting like their army just got entirely squatted... You're getting what looks to be an overall solid book! It's not like you're getting a gutted crapheap like what CSM's players got with their 4th edition book that literally did remove over half their options!

Just because we don't agree or understand it doesn't mean we can't sympathize. TBH if we give GW money then we are responsible for perpetuating their behavior.

Shield of Baal exterminatus is next in the campaign. I checked the leaked images of the white dwarf and it will have detachments/formations for blood Angels as well as warlord traits and relics for the 1st company and flesh tearers.

 plastictrees wrote:
Yes, let's praise the abrasive nerd for being condescending to people making reasonable posts. The internet needs more brave crusaders like Thud making sure that everyone that disagrees with them is labeled a troll.

We're all abrasive and condescending nerds here. Its part of Dakka's charm. The post simply struck me funny is all. This thread is following the standard pattern. Outrage, counter outrage, dickish behavior, lack of empathy, false sense of righteousness.

If I have to take tacticals I might as well just play my BA as "counts-as" raven guard for the jump pack trait.

At least then I could snag the core codex goodies like thunderfire cannons.

But in all seriousness, my motivation for spending money on the game just sank like a stone. My wish list has evaporated. Their marketing guys SUCK.

Can't wait for some company that's actually competent to buy out GW and school them on how to treat customers.

 Thud wrote:

 plastictrees wrote:
Yes, let's praise the abrasive nerd for being condescending to people making reasonable posts. The internet needs more brave crusaders like Thud making sure that everyone that disagrees with them is labeled a troll.

Straw man arguments and schadenfraude aren't reasonable.

And I just adore how you're criticizing me for ad hominems in the very same sentence you're doing the same thing.

You're being abrasive, that's not an ad hominem. I assumed you wore it like a badge of honor and prided yourself on 'telling it like it is'.
Several people have referred to the BA being nerfed. Maybe you're not making that argument, but not everyone is talking to you.

 Crimson Devil wrote:

 plastictrees wrote:
Yes, let's praise the abrasive nerd for being condescending to people making reasonable posts. The internet needs more brave crusaders like Thud making sure that everyone that disagrees with them is labeled a troll.

We're all abrasive and condescending nerds here. Its part of Dakka's charm. The post simply struck me funny is all. This thread is following the standard pattern. Outrage, counter outrage, dickish behavior, lack of empathy, false sense of righteousness.

I'm honestly surprised we haven't gotten the 1-2 sentence, haters gonna hate style posts yet.

On the topic of releases:

I've said in another thread that extra detail on the Tacticals was worth the extra $3 USD ($2 diff CDN, what the hell happened there). I do not feel the same about the Terminators, those don't seem worth the extra $10 more than SM Termies.