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I think your confusing 'military = evil' with the more broad 'military industrial complex = evil'. That episode was just another in a pile of various stories about shady government dealings (involving high ranking military officials seemingly in charge of shadowy units) with weapons makers that have been common since the 50's.
And if you don't think military brass is deeply involved in weapons development, you're sorely mistaken. My dad pretty much did exactly that guy's job (minus the evilness.. I hope) for 2 years at NRO. Military officials coordinate with civilian contractors all the time on development. EDIT: now the marines might do it a lot less, as they tend to be less developmental than the other branches, but the Army and Navy have lots of people whose job is basically just managing R&D via contractors.
Really we should be outraged that Star Labs is suddenly a military contractor (or was, apparently) as to my knowledge that's not part of their lore
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2014/12/09 12:44:19
As HitFix reported, Hamill will debut as the Trickster—a.k.a. James Jesse—on this season’s 17th episode, which will fall somewhere in Spring 2015. But Hamill’s new Trickster will be slightly different from the goofy prankster who teased John Wesley Shipp’s Flash during the 90’s series.
As the CW officially described the character:
“In this new iteration, The Trickster is an anarchist terrorist con man serving a life sentence in Iron Heights who helps Barry (Grant Gustin) and Det. West (Jesse L. Martin) to foil the city-wide attacks of a wannabe Trickster eagerly following in the original's deadly footsteps. The episode will reunite him with John Wesley Shipp who went up against him as the original 'Flash' on the CBS version."
Hamill will be the third actor to appear on both the original Flash series and the current iteration. John Wesley Shipp, who played Barry Allen and the Flash on CBS’ series, currently plays Barry Allen’s father. And Amanda Pays will make her Flash reunion in this week’s episode, “The Man in the Yellow Suit” in a reprisal of her Dr. Tina McGee character.
"Having Mark reprise his role as The Trickster was on our original wish list when we were planning our version of The Flash,” Flash Executive Producer Andrew Kreisberg told HitFix. “Christmas and Chanukah came early for us this year when he said yes! We are beyond humbled and excited to have him joining us for another round of deadly trickery!"
Hamill, of course, is also known for his iconic performance as Luke Skywalker in the original Star Wars trilogy, and will return to the role in next year’s Star Wars: The Force Awakens. He was also the voice of the Joker in the DC Animated Universe and the first two "Batman: Arkham Asylum" video games.
Breotan wrote: I like that they put another Grodd reference in. I don't like the "military = evil" trope they've gone with.
Well, technically it's a "one specific General and his top-secret unit that lacks oversight = evil", but even then; why does it bother you, out of interest? It's demonstrably true that militaries all over the world did and likely still do some pretty messed-up stuff, particularly when they think there's a chance of getting some new uber-weapon, is it seriously that much of a stretch to think some parts of the American military would be ruthless arseholes when presented with the opportunity to have actual, genuine "super-soldiers"?
I served ten years in the Marine Corps. A few feth-ups aside the men and women I served with are among the most honorary, patriotic, and professional people I have even known. The parts of your comments which I colored in are bad fanfic at best, insulting as feth at worst. I'm leaning toward the latter.
Just so you have a clue, the military doesn't develop weapons, civilian contractors do. The military puts out a requirement for some item of weapon/vehicle/armor and companies interested in the contract begin working up prototypes. The most promising prototype at the lowest price gets the contract and development of production models begins. The military only gets stuff when it is ready for field testing.
Even if there were some sort of super soldier feth, no military would touch it until it is proven to work reliably and reproducibly. Even then, the top brass would be scared fethless about what could happen once the "enhanced" soldiers leave military service and rejoin the civilian population.
I can't tell whether you're being hypersensitive or just naive. The idea that the military are just blameless buyers who have no idea what's going on in the massive research industry that exists purely to serve their needs and which contains vast amounts of scientists working in top-secret projects under the direct supervision of military and intelligence officials is hilarious. The idea that someone even asking if a hypothetical scenario in which one tiny, oversight-devoid part of the military does objectionable things could be possible is somehow a direct personal slight against the honour of every serviceperson ever to have put on a uniform is...well, it would be hilarious, if it wasn't so sad.
Particularly given all the pretty monstrous things British and American soldiers and leaders have been doing over the past decade to gain something as basic as intelligence on tribal insurgents. Even more particularly when you consider the lengths military officials have gone to when trying to maintain the secrecy of their various blunders relating to nuclear weapons and biological or chemical weapons research.
Militaries do horrible things; it's not all they do, but it happens. As long as soldiers and the "SUPPURT R TRUPS!" crowd continue to brand any attempt to criticise historical military failures/atrocities, current military policy and practice, or the potential future impact of existing military attitudes given advancing technologies as personal attacks on the integrity of every soldier, or as some subversive attempt to destabilise western society you're enabling those horrible things, however rare they are, by helping to prevent adequate scrutiny.
"Your society's broken, so who should we blame? Should we blame the rich, powerful people who caused it? No, lets blame the people with no power and no money and those immigrants who don't even have the vote. Yea, it must be their fething fault." - Iain M Banks
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"The language of modern British politics is meant to sound benign. But words do not mean what they seem to mean. 'Reform' actually means 'cut' or 'end'. 'Flexibility' really means 'exploit'. 'Prudence' really means 'don't invest'. And 'efficient'? That means whatever you want it to mean, usually 'cut'. All really mean 'keep wages low for the masses, taxes low for the rich, profits high for the corporations, and accept the decline in public services and amenities this will cause'." - Robin McAlpine from Common Weal
I know this has nothing to do with the argument about the military-industrial complex but tonight (in the US) is the introduction of Reverse Flash, so that should be fun.
Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
I quite liked that in the Arrow cross over the Green Arrow told Felicity that there was something off about Wells. It was good to see someone from the outside noting it.
Haven't watched last nights episode (generally don't see my shows till the weekend) but I'm still really enjoying it. Probably one of my favorite shows on TV right now.
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Well, it does seem to be getting complicated, with more and more possibilities at work. (First, I should say that this show really seems to be finding its footing.)
Anyway...
Spoiler:
...there seem to be a lot of different Reverse-Flash elements at work.
In the comics, Eobard Thawne was the Reverse-Flash who at one point a suit that gave him superspeed. That element seems to be in play, from the scene with Wells recharging the suit. Thawne was also a time-traveler who messed with Barry's past, etc., and we've obviously seen some of those elements in the storyline. Obviously, Eddie = Eobard? has been a question since the beginning.
There was a theory out there that Harrison Wells is Hunter Zolomon, another Reverse-Flash. Elements of that character seem to be in play. In the comics, Zolomon was a friend of Wally's who was paralyzed in an accident before he got his abilities (which weren't really about speed but time). And his goal was to create tragedy for Wally in order to make him a better hero. I'm not sure if that one tracks exactly, but it certainly does seem as though Wells may have mixed and complicated motives.
Now, there could be a Reverse-Flash mashup at work for the show. But I think that the force field scene was intended to give us some important clues. First, we saw Eddie, Wells, and the Reverse-Flash in the same room together (there could be a superspeed trick at work, but I'm guessing not). We also saw Reverse-Flash spare Eddie's life.
Right now I think that the Reverse-Flash IS Eddie, but a future Eddie from several years down the road (not the far future like in the comics). I figure Eddie wants revenge for being wronged by Barry -- Iris appears to figure prominently here -- and may have needed the suit recharged to be able to return to his time.
Meanwhile, Harrison Wells is Hunter Zolomon -- who has obtained knowledge of the future or is from the future himself -- working with future Eddie. (Note that Eddie, not being a science guy, *would need* someone's help with suit maintenance, etc.) And I think that Wells might not be strictly malevolent. We saw the reference to "red skies" and Flash's disappearance, which I think is a clear reference to the Crisis comics, during which Barry sacrificed himself to save the Earth. (On a related note, it's interesting how we're able to see what looks like a red streak travel through Barry in his origin scene.) Wells/Zolomon's goal may be to ensure that Barry gets to that point in the Crisis, so that the Earth will be saved.
Now, why are future Eddie and Wells/Zolomon working together? It doesn't make a lot of sense -- their goals seem directly opposed and not in sync. So either my theory falls apart, or perhaps Wells/Zolomon is just pulling Eddie's strings, telling him one thing but doing another. Perhaps the Reverse-Flash's presence is needed to spur Barry to become the hero he needs to be to get him to the Crisis point to save the Earth. Note that Reverse-Flash could have killed Wells a thousand times over when they were both trapped in the force field, but he instead chooses to beat him around some and not do any permanent damage. And note the computer glitch that occurred even before Joe took out the force field. Sabotage by Dr. Wells?
This still leaves a lot of holes, but it's my personal best guess as of now.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/12/10 16:06:14
gorgon wrote: Well, it does seem to be getting complicated, with more and more possibilities at work. (First, I should say that this show really seems to be finding its footing.)
Anyway...
Spoiler:
...there seem to be a lot of different Reverse-Flash elements at work.
In the comics, Eobard Thawne was the Reverse-Flash who at one point a suit that gave him superspeed. That element seems to be in play, from the scene with Wells recharging the suit. Thawne was also a time-traveler who messed with Barry's past, etc., and we've obviously seen some of those elements in the storyline. Obviously, Eddie = Eobard? has been a question since the beginning.
There was a theory out there that Harrison Wells is Hunter Zolomon, another Reverse-Flash. Elements of that character seem to be in play. In the comics, Zolomon was a friend of Wally's who was paralyzed in an accident before he got his abilities (which weren't really about speed but time). And his goal was to create tragedy for Wally in order to make him a better hero. I'm not sure if that one tracks exactly, but it certainly does seem as though Wells may have mixed and complicated motives.
Now, there could be a Reverse-Flash mashup at work for the show. But I think that the force field scene was intended to give us some important clues. First, we saw Eddie, Wells, and the Reverse-Flash in the same room together (there could be a superspeed trick at work, but I'm guessing not). We also saw Reverse-Flash spare Eddie's life.
Right now I think that the Reverse-Flash IS Eddie, but a future Eddie from several years down the road (not the far future like in the comics). I figure Eddie wants revenge for being wronged by Barry -- Iris appears to figure prominently here -- and may have needed the suit recharged to be able to return to his time.
Meanwhile, Harrison Wells is Hunter Zolomon -- who has obtained knowledge of the future or is from the future himself -- working with future Eddie. (Note that Eddie, not being a science guy, *would need* someone's help with suit maintenance, etc.) And I think that Wells might not be strictly malevolent. We saw the reference to "red skies" and Flash's disappearance, which I think is a clear reference to the Crisis comics, during which Barry sacrificed himself to save the Earth. (On a related note, it's interesting how we're able to see what looks like a red streak travel through Barry in his origin scene.) Wells/Zolomon's goal may be to ensure that Barry gets to that point in the Crisis, so that the Earth will be saved.
Now, why are future Eddie and Wells/Zolomon working together? It doesn't make a lot of sense -- their goals seem directly opposed and not in sync. So either my theory falls apart, or perhaps Wells/Zolomon is just pulling Eddie's strings, telling him one thing but doing another. Perhaps the Reverse-Flash's presence is needed to spur Barry to become the hero he needs to be to get him to the Crisis point to save the Earth. Note that Reverse-Flash could have killed Wells a thousand times over when they were both trapped in the force field, but he instead chooses to beat him around some and not do any permanent damage. And note the computer glitch that occurred even before Joe took out the force field. Sabotage by Dr. Wells?
This still leaves a lot of holes, but it's my personal best guess as of now.
Spoiler:
I think you've got Well's identity figured out. As to the recharging of the suit, I thought that was Wells applying the Tachyon particles to it that were recovered during the force field scene.
BlaxicanX wrote: A young business man named Tom Kirby, who was a pupil of mine until he turned greedy, helped the capitalists hunt down and destroy the wargamers. He betrayed and murdered Games Workshop.
Then, what's the heck is he doing with a similar outfit?
<--- really confused!
Spoiler:
Because he's the scientist who maintains the equipment while (future) Thawne is the muscle? That's my theory, at least. Of course, that doesn't explain the voice thing. Unless he has some abilities that don't involve the suit.
Then, what's the heck is he doing with a similar outfit?
<--- really confused!
Spoiler:
Because he's the scientist who maintains the equipment while (future) Thawne is the muscle? That's my theory, at least. Of course, that doesn't explain the voice thing. Unless he has some abilities that don't involve the suit.
Unless he's Future Flash who came back to help harden the Flash!
Nice episode, though I am calling Time Traveler shenanigans. The Flash all ways did have just as many timey-whimey foes as Doctor Who.
My guess
Spoiler:
Eddie Thawne is Professor Zoom aka Hunter Zoloman. His "mysterious past" probably had him change it to Eddie Thawne, that is how is why he spared his past self and escaped the force field because he is not a true Speedster. My guess he turns evil some point in the future( probably about Iris) and is coming back into the past to get revenge on Barry. While
Dr. Harrison Wells is Reverse Flash aka Eobard Thawne. My guess is that he is using Barry for future Crisis and is probably working/using Future Eddie/Zoloman. So really all CW did was swap their names and motivations with one another. At least that's my guess anyhow, if I remember my comic's right.
That all being said did anyone catch the tangential continuity of the Arrow mid season; brutal.
The episode just aired in the UK (boo for being weeks behind everyone...)
I think Gorgon is mostly on the money, however...
Spoiler:
I think there's definitely a 'stable time loop' in play here, also possibly adding in a 'paradox will destroy the universe' angle.
I can imagine a plotline where Future-Barry goes back in time to save his mother from a time travelling Reverse-Flash, however he is dissuaded by Wells from doing so, because timey-wimey paradox-ey stuff. - Probably with a line of, "every step you took in your life turned you into the hero you are today, if you weren't the Flash, none of us would be here... And you would never become The Flash if your mother was still alive" And so on (is this part of the Flashpoint Paradox storyline or something? I'm pretty sure I haven't made it up). However, Barry goes back in time anyway, probably overhears a conversation between his mum and dad. - Perhaps even has a conversation with his mum before Reverse-Flash arrives.
At which point, he battles Reverse-Flash but ultimately 'lets' him kill his mother as he is needed to save kid-Barry (which matches the final conversation of the episode about kid-Barry seeing red and yellow streaks)
Therefore, stable timeloop achieved. The Flash is The Flash in the future, which ties into Gorgon's theory about him sacrificing himself to save the planet.
We all suspected it after The Flash's fall finale, but now it's official: Tom Cavanagh, who plays Dr. Harrison Wells, has confirmed that he will be pulling double-duty on the series as the villain known as Reverse Flash.
"[Wells] is the man in the yellow suit," Cavanagh said during a panel at the Television Critics Association winter press tour, in reference to the comic book villain who killed the Flash's mother. And since Wells has the suit, exhibited Reverse Flash's vocal vibration powers, and is in posession of a faster-than-light tachyon device, all signs point to a time-traveling version of the character. But is he the only one?
Executive producer Andrew Kreisberg hinted that another person may be involved in the Reverse Flash mythology—namely Eddie Thawne (Rick Cosnett). Fans have speculated that Eddie (whose name resembles Eobard Thawne, one of the Reverse Flash's aliases in the comics on which the series is based) will become the Reverse Flash. "His name is not an accident," Kreisberg said. "Eddie's connection to the Reverse Flash lore is going to pay off big time in the back half of the year."
Producers also addressed the idea of another spin-off set within the Flash/Arrow universe, possibly featuring the Atom (Brandon Routh). "We're in very early talks on a very general idea that we're... not allowed to say anything about yet," executive producer Greg Berlanti teased.
Earlier in the day, CW president Mark Pedowitz told critics that, while nothing is currently in the works, he's open to additional Flash and Arrow spin-offs "as long as there's no audience fatigue."
Heh, called it.
I left out some stuff about Arrow. You can follow the article to read that and post about it in the Arrow thread.
It's nice watching a CW show that doesn't sit around praying to get a new season order each year, hoping against hope that the powers that be let them continue their story (like Nikita).
Well then. I've actually got some non-triumphant news regarding the Flash's incarnation of Firestorm.
Rob Bricken wrote:Firestorm's Outfit On The Flash Could Possibly Use A Little Work
So among about a billion other things revealed about the CW's burgeoning DC TV universe, the outfit for Robbie Amell's Firestorm was on display at the Television Critics Association event this weekend, and, uh... well, let's just say it was not what I was expecting.
Mainly because it appears to be a hoodie with some gak glued on the front.
Given that Arrow, the Flash and the Atom's costumes all look pretty good, I fully admit I was expecting something a bit more... impressive for Firestorm, who recently debuted on The Flash. I mean, this doesn't even look like a special hoodie. The man can basically set himself on fire; does this thing have some kind of flame retardant powers? And what's with the circle-and-dots doohickey? I know it's a nod to Firestorm's comics costume, but it's over the zipper. Is it part of the material? Does it detach in some way? And if it does, then what the hell is it there for at all?
Look, I know this is a weird thing to quibble about when discussing a character who can engulf himself in flames, but that's actually a pretty normal thing in the DC universe. But as far as I know, zippers work the same way in the DC universe as they do here. So yeah, only one of these two things is challenging my sense of disbelief.
H.B.M.C. wrote: And Arrow and Flash got renewed for new seasons.
It's nice watching a CW show that doesn't sit around praying to get a new season order each year, hoping against hope that the powers that be let them continue their story (like Nikita).
And it got announced that the Flash/Arrow crossover events are going to become an annual thing ala Doctor Who's Christmas Specials.
And that characters will cross over here and there throughout the year, with one big cross-over even a year. As long as we get one more cross-over in the back half of each Season I'll be happy, but otherwise one a year is enough.
Also, 'cause it's funny:
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/01/14 07:05:05
Great show so far. Has outdone my concerns about a guy who goes fast.
I haven't read much on Flash's mythology so every twist known in the comics or just for the show is new to me anyway. The little bits about Dr. Wells not being all he says has been a favorite part of the episodes. Interested to see where they take this.
The last couple episode have been the best. First the Flash vs. Reverse Flash battle then the Ice and Fire battle royale. Loved how Eddie stepped up and helped The Flash in time of need. Maybe he'll rethink the task force.
Well Wells' may be siphoning the power to give himself speed (and walking) but that doesn't tell us much about his motivations. There is also the possibility that there is more than one Reverse Flash, which I believe was mentioned above.
I like the show more than the comics actually as the comics got a bit w9erd with The Flash's powers and in the end more speed is almost always the answer and he has become more powerful than pretty much anyone with his speed. Limits are a bit more interesting.
To sum things up: GRODD
Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
Wells is Zolomon Hunter. Even his cover name (H. Wells) seems to hint at time travel. And not that it means anything, but his appearance matches the Zolomon Reverse-Flash, with the red eyes, distorted speech, etc. IIRC, the computer said something about Speed Force absorption? Perhaps the suit charges Wells/Hunter up with Speed Force and doesn't need to be worn at all times. And I stand by my theory about Hunter not being completely malevolent (taking some cues from comics Hunter), but merely wanting Barry to become the hero he needs to be and get him to the Crisis incident alive so that he can save everyone/everything. Anyway, it was interesting that they also introduced Linda Park, who had a part in the comics in the Hunter storyline and may in the show too.
Given that there's a character named Thawne in the show, I think it's fairly obvious that Eddie will eventually don the suit, probably seeking vengeance (losing Iris?). I guess it's less likely now that we saw a future Eddie in the force field scene, although it hasn't been explained how Wells pulled that whole thing off without an accomplice. That Reverse-Flash's hesitation to kill Eddie might have been a sign of it being future Eddie, or just Wells hesitating to kill the man who will become Barry's greatest adversary, which wouldn't help the whole help-Barry-become-a-hero thing.
Has outdone my concerns about a guy who goes fast.
He Who Controls The Dice Controls The Universe