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Wait wtf gender and sex are the same thing, if you think your something else..... I think you can get free help to fix those problems. I think i am a horse so I am a horse? No I am a born male who wants to be one because I suffer from a mental illness and we are in a do what you like phase in the world so a psycho psytrist will tell me to do it and it is ok, rather then fixing the problem.

Gender ad sex are NOT the same thing.
Gender is Feminine or Masculine and which one you identify with
Sex if your biological assignment to male or female.

OgreChubbs wrote:
Wait wtf gender and sex are the same thing, if you think your something else..... I think you can get free help to fix those problems. I think i am a horse so I am a horse? No I am a born male who wants to be one because I suffer from a mental illness and we are in a do what you like phase in the world so a psycho psytrist will tell me to do it and it is ok, rather then fixing the problem.

I too am a fan of the 1940's. Such a carefree and happy time!

OgreChubbs wrote:Wait wtf gender and sex are the same thing, if you think your something else..... I think you can get free help to fix those problems. I think i am a horse so I am a horse? No I am a born male who wants to be one because I suffer from a mental illness and we are in a do what you like phase in the world so a psycho psytrist will tell me to do it and it is ok, rather then fixing the problem.

Ignorance is bliss as they say.
Yes, if you claim you are a horse you are a horse. There are people out there who feel they are more like an animal in a spiritual sense than a human. You feel your are a human boy as you were born, other's feel they are a female blue whale in a man's body.

hotsauceman1 wrote:Gender ad sex are NOT the same thing.
Gender is Feminine or Masculine and which one you identify with
Sex if your biological assignment to male or female.

actually, gender goes far beyond that. According to a friend of mine, whoch is my only source, there are about 32 recognised genders. Such as male, female, male-in-a-woman's-body, woman-in-a-man's-body, non-binary (mix of both), agendered (niether, just human), gay man, gay woman, straight transgendered (man becomes woman who likes men), gay transgendered (man becomes woman who likes woman)

plus a load of others. Confuses me personally with the number but there you go.

Edit; He is big into gender concept and will debate til the cows come home over gender. He is gay himself but hangs out with numerous transgendered people, is a huge supporter of trans* rights and feminism (real feminism, not feminazi).

gender the state of being male, female, or neuter "neither"
sex being male or female

According to the dictionary, so you can make up things all you want but at the end of the day a mental disorder is a mental disorder. They have to be treated not called a new way of life. Soon people with bipolar will be called express-me-much and to say there is something wrong with them will be a hate crime. They need to find a common link for the mental disorder and find a way to treat it not make a new sub-sub-category to put them in, then to help them self mutilate while robbing them blind.

At the end of the day if I walked into a mental clinic and said I feel like a horse I am a horse inside my own body and identify as one, they would help treat a mental disorder. If a doctor approached you and said they plan on trying to help your love one become a horse both mentally and physically you would sue... you know you would.

OgreChubbs wrote:
gender the state of being male, female, or neuter "neither"
sex being male or female

According to the dictionary, so you can make up things all you want but at the end of the day a mental disorder is a mental disorder. They have to be treated not called a new way of life. Soon people with bipolar will be called express-me-much and to say there is something wrong with them will be a hate crime. They need to find a common link for the mental disorder and find a way to treat it not make a new sub-sub-category to put them in, then to help them self mutilate while robbing them blind.

At the end of the day if I walked into a mental clinic and said I feel like a horse I am a horse inside my own body and identify as one, they would help treat a mental disorder. If a doctor approached you and said they plan on trying to help your love one become a horse both mentally and physically you would sue... you know you would.

So what you're saying is that anything that deviates from your idea of normality is a mental disorder that requires treatment?

How very droll.

No not my "norm" that makes it a mental illness. It is a mental illness because you have a identification issue with your born gender which causes you mental harm. The fact that it the new things to swing the way you like should not stop doctors from helping treat a mental disorder. At the age of 3-5 "I believe I will have to find my text" there is a stage called gender identification. They treat all other disorders that happen such as trust and mistrust and all the others. But this one is taboo to touch because people find it offensive.

I am not trying to hurt anyone here, I think they need help anyone who doesn't feel right for any reason should be treated like a actual patient not passed off saying it is gender identification issue "ie mental disorder" that we arn't suppose to treat have a good day.

I think it a crime to turn down those that need help because the sick rarely know how much help they need.

OgreChubbs wrote:
...so you can make up things all you want but at the end of the day a mental disorder is a mental disorder.

Why do you assume that it is a mental disorder rather than a physical one?

 insaniak wrote:

OgreChubbs wrote:
...so you can make up things all you want but at the end of the day a mental disorder is a mental disorder.

Why do you assume that it is a mental disorder rather than a physical one?

Because all mental disorder are physical, your mind triggers a physical and emotional response to a imbalance of chemicals or a improperly firing trigger. Such as a fear there is no actually mental problem it a mentally stimulated physical response to a issue your brain sees as scary.

Face it the only reason they stopped treating it, is because a group of people found it offensive and other people who did not understand the gender identification age jumped on their backs. Now it is easyer to say it is ok then fix it and get sued by a certain group.

OgreChubbs wrote:
Because all mental disorder are physical, your mind triggers a physical and emotional response to a imbalance of chemicals or a improperly firing trigger. Such as a fear there is no actually mental problem it a mentally stimulated physical response to a issue your brain sees as scary.

Missing the point.

You're seeing someone wanting to change their outward gender as a sign that their body is correct but that there is something wrong with their brain chemistry. They're seeing it as their brain being correct, but something wrong with their body. And the actual science appears to agree with them.

Face it the only reason they stopped treating it, is because a group of people found it offensive and other people who did not understand the gender identification age jumped on their backs. Now it is easyer to say it is ok then fix it and get sued by a certain group.

Er no... they changed the way they treat this issue because science discovered that it wasn't actually anything to do with brain chemistry at all. This isn't something that can just be 'fixed' with medication and a stern talking to.

OgreChubbs wrote:
No not my "norm" that makes it a mental illness. It is a mental illness because you have a identification issue with your born gender which causes you mental harm. The fact that it the new things to swing the way you like should not stop doctors from helping treat a mental disorder. At the age of 3-5 "I believe I will have to find my text" there is a stage called gender identification. They treat all other disorders that happen such as trust and mistrust and all the others. But this one is taboo to touch because people find it offensive.

Except that their gender identification is NOT causing them harm, what is causing them harm is the reactions of those around them to it. I know some people who were born female and identify more as male who are far more mentally stable than other people, and only suffer because of the harassment they receive from others.

I think it a crime to turn down those that need help because the sick rarely know how much help they need.

That is an incredibly slippy slope. At what point does "helping those who cannot help themselves" become deciding people's fates for them because we think we know better? The vast majority of these people are mentally well individuals; what proof have you got to claim that they are simply ignorant of the supposed fact they need help?

 Avatar 720 wrote:


Except that their gender identification is NOT causing them harm, what is causing them harm is the reactions of those around them to it.?

It goes both ways. First of all, and this should be clear, noone has any right to judge someone based on what gender he / she thinks that he / she has. That's everyone's freedom. I could consider myself to be the reborn Jesus and you would have zero right to judge me on it. Anyone should be able to claim being a woman without having to fear repercussions.

On the other hand, it goes both ways. No belief is any better than any other. If you consider yourself being a woman despite being born a man, you are fully free to consider you being a woman / transgender etc. You can NOT however automatically expect that everyone will adress you with "she" instead of "he". If you kindly ask others to do so and they refuse, then you have to deal with it. It's THEIR belief and you have absolutely no right to demand them to act against their belief and follow yours.

"But...but...discrimination! DISCRIMINIATIOOOOOOOON!"

Bull. Saying that anyone referring to man who thinks he's a woman as "he" is discriminating is discrimination as you consider your convictions superior to the other. Which is wrong and discriminating.

You, in such a position, are asking others for a favor. Not the other way around. Any step towards your attitude is done out of respect and should NEVER EVER be taken as granted. It should be appreciated.

I feel I should clarify, when I say the harm comes from people's reactions I don't simply mean that they feel upset because someone doesn't view them as they view themselves, I'm talking about the people who verbally abuse them for it, who go out of their way to mock and cause misery. There is a huge difference between what I actually meant and what you thought I meant.

 Avatar 720 wrote:
I feel I should clarify, when I say the harm comes from people's reactions I don't simply mean that they feel upset because someone doesn't view them as they view themselves, I'm talking about the people who verbally abuse them for it, who go out of their way to mock and cause misery. There is a huge difference between what I actually meant and what you thought I meant.

Gotcha! And I agree with you - hope that got across at the very least

OgreChubbs wrote:
No not my "norm" that makes it a mental illness. It is a mental illness because you have a identification issue with your born gender which causes you mental harm. The fact that it the new things to swing the way you like should not stop doctors from helping treat a mental disorder. At the age of 3-5 "I believe I will have to find my text" there is a stage called gender identification. They treat all other disorders that happen such as trust and mistrust and all the others. But this one is taboo to touch because people find it offensive.

I am not trying to hurt anyone here, I think they need help anyone who doesn't feel right for any reason should be treated like a actual patient not passed off saying it is gender identification issue "ie mental disorder" that we arn't suppose to treat have a good day.

I think it a crime to turn down those that need help because the sick rarely know how much help they need.

It never caused me harm, well people didn't like it and threatened to harm me, but there's a thousand reasons why people want to harm another, that being one of them.
I don't feel sick, and genderfluid isn't just some brain nonsense I can have fixed with a pill and some one on one time with a shrink.
I am fine with who I am, and if I did go "get fixed" a part of what makes me, me would be lost.
Things like that shape you to who you become, there is a big difference in having an actual mental illness, like aspergers, and being transgender or genderfluid or whatever the case may be.

 Rainbow Dash wrote:

OgreChubbs wrote:
No not my "norm" that makes it a mental illness. It is a mental illness because you have a identification issue with your born gender which causes you mental harm. The fact that it the new things to swing the way you like should not stop doctors from helping treat a mental disorder. At the age of 3-5 "I believe I will have to find my text" there is a stage called gender identification. They treat all other disorders that happen such as trust and mistrust and all the others. But this one is taboo to touch because people find it offensive.

I am not trying to hurt anyone here, I think they need help anyone who doesn't feel right for any reason should be treated like a actual patient not passed off saying it is gender identification issue "ie mental disorder" that we arn't suppose to treat have a good day.

I think it a crime to turn down those that need help because the sick rarely know how much help they need.

It never caused me harm, well people didn't like it and threatened to harm me, but there's a thousand reasons why people want to harm another, that being one of them.
I don't feel sick, and genderfluid isn't just some brain nonsense I can have fixed with a pill and some one on one time with a shrink.
I am fine with who I am, and if I did go "get fixed" a part of what makes me, me would be lost.
Things like that shape you to who you become, there is a big difference in having an actual mental illness, like aspergers, and being transgender or genderfluid or whatever the case may be.

Well I am happy for ya, glad you like who you are and I wish ya all the best. But at the end of the day a mental illness that harms someone needs to be addressed and helped. I think doctors are way to" ya ,go with it you have gender issues sex change or other insert thing here. But quite frankly I have a mental illness I have social anxiety, most if not all of us have A mental illness or two. If I sound like I am saying there is something wrong with you sorry but there is just like there is with me.

What I am trying to explain is "kinda got off topic" If there is something that causes you harm in the form of a mental illness and you see a doctor and they tell you to do something dramatic rather then try and treat your issues I think thats a problem.

But if your happy with who you are good for ya, life sucks enough without people making fun of others my orginal point was people get treated bad for a thousand reasons like how they make fun of my god "a very personal and sencitive issue" like they make fun of gays or what ever genders. Not sure how we got on the topic of if it is or isn't a real thing.

Long story short if your not hurting anyone and your happy with who you are good for ya. The point I wanted to make was like I said above I think docotrs are failing to many people with real issues that bother/harm them "not other people but them" and they need to be helped not slumped into a subcatagory.

But I do believe it is a mental illness that happens during the gender association age 3-5. But remember just because I said it a mental illness doesn't mean I am saying what your going through is made up I just see it as something happened during that time which altered the way the brain thinks of a certain scenario like me with my fear of crowds and such.

Oh btw after browsing threw some of my texts I found this

There has never been a case where a male brain was in a female but there has on occasion been proof of female brain in a male
The only way to truely tell the difference other then size "which is determined by the skull not the smarts" is that a male brain has y cromazones"butchered that word" in it where a female brain does not. They do not know what if anything it changes in the brain but there is different hormones in the female and male brains. Such as the male brain has a direct line"nerve" to the penis where the woman does to a different area of her vagina.

OgreChubbs wrote:
But I do believe it is a mental illness that happens during the gender association age 3-5. .

Whereas science thinks it's due to a disassociation between brain development and body development that happens in the womb.

Not a mental illness.

 insaniak wrote:

OgreChubbs wrote:
But I do believe it is a mental illness that happens during the gender association age 3-5. .

Whereas science thinks it's due to a disassociation between brain development and body development that happens in the womb.

Not a mental illness.

Give me a couple hours I get the text book it is a nursing book written by a man who studies age and development. So i should of worded it has "science has multiple exapmles that it is caused during development"

OgreChubbs wrote:
The only way to truely tell the difference other then size "which is determined by the skull not the smarts" is that a male brain has y cromazones"butchered that word" in it where a female brain does not.

There are some structural differences between male and female brains as well.

OgreChubbs wrote:

 insaniak wrote:

OgreChubbs wrote:
But I do believe it is a mental illness that happens during the gender association age 3-5. .

Whereas science thinks it's due to a disassociation between brain development and body development that happens in the womb.

Not a mental illness.

Give me a couple hours I get the text book it is a nursing book written by a man who studies age and development. So i should of worded it has "science has multiple exapmles that it is caused during development"

I'd love to see some good, current research showing that, i.e. not a textbook since those things are hardly reliable. You get professors plugging their own work all the time in university, regardless of whether it was well researched or not. Instead of wasting time finding a textbook, show me some good peer reviewed studies that fly in the face of the accepted scientific standing that Insaniak referred to.

It was in the mosby 6th edition for sure. It was eriksons law it intwins with maslows law.

Then I think you need to reread Erikson's theory, as it doesn't mean what you think it does. It most certainly doesn't claim that this is a mental illness rather than an unlucky mismatch between mind and body.

And Maslow's theory, assuming you mean the heirarchy of needs, which he is most famous for, and since I have to make assumptions since you've provided no actual references, doesn't support that either. Even though he developed it in 1954. Because of this, in fact, and studies that have been completed since, it's not that relevant anymore.

0/2

 motyak wrote:
Then I think you need to reread Erikson's theory, as it doesn't mean what you think it does. It most certainly doesn't claim that this is a mental illness rather than an unlucky mismatch between mind and body.

And Maslow's theory, assuming you mean the heirarchy of needs, which he is most famous for, and since I have to make assumptions since you've provided no actual references, doesn't support that either. Even though he developed it in 1954. Because of this, in fact, and studies that have been completed since, it's not that relevant anymore.

0/2

Well I have to admit since YOUR saying it, it must be true since you have a degree in.... what now? Oh ya what scientific backing do you have again....? Put up some information because saying uhuh is just annoying to talk to reminds me off my 4 year old.

My background isn't relevant to this. You have made statements, claimed they have scientific backing, then made references to theories as laws and not expanded upon them in any substantive way. As the person who is arguing against the grain of accepted scientific understanding, you need to provide information proving us wrong. Not just 'here's a law (that isn't a law) with a name in front of it'.

OgreChubbs wrote:

 motyak wrote:
Then I think you need to reread Erikson's theory, as it doesn't mean what you think it does. It most certainly doesn't claim that this is a mental illness rather than an unlucky mismatch between mind and body.

And Maslow's theory, assuming you mean the heirarchy of needs, which he is most famous for, and since I have to make assumptions since you've provided no actual references, doesn't support that either. Even though he developed it in 1954. Because of this, in fact, and studies that have been completed since, it's not that relevant anymore.

0/2

Well I have to admit since YOUR saying it, it must be true since you have a degree in.... what now? Oh ya what scientific backing do you have again....? Put up some information because saying uhuh is just annoying to talk to reminds me off my 4 year old.

Yup, attack the arguer, not the argument.
Great strategy.
Dude, you are acting like me right now, so stop it

Honestly, how is this "discussion" still going? If someone had claimed "being gay is a mental illness" or "being black is a mental illness" they'd be banned and the thread would be locked. So why is it ok to post things that are equally offensive about transgendered people?

 Sigvatr wrote:
You can NOT however automatically expect that everyone will adress you with "she" instead of "he". If you kindly ask others to do so and they refuse, then you have to deal with it. It's THEIR belief and you have absolutely no right to demand them to act against their belief and follow yours.

Sure you do, just like if you're a black person you have a right to demand that people don't address you as "hey {racial insult}". Legally you have a right to say offensive things, but the rest of us have every right to tell you to stop and shun you if you don't.

You, in such a position, are asking others for a favor.

Yeah, that huge favor of "don't be an offensive to me". I mean, really, what exactly is the reason for not being polite and using the pronouns a person tells you they identify with? Is it really that important to make your ideological point that you have to be incredibly rude and insulting to random people?

Kind of a slippery slope argument there. I mean, can you argue anything based on their own merit instead of trying to link it to something else?

Gaming community? gak dude, just read any YouTube comments. The Internet is full of anonymous people and trolls who'll say whatever they can to get a reaction.

 insaniak wrote:

OgreChubbs wrote:
...so you can make up things all you want but at the end of the day a mental disorder is a mental disorder.

Why do you assume that it is a mental disorder rather than a physical one?

Probably because people who think they are "multiple systems" with "headmates", one of which is a God-damned fox, they're probably desperately seeking attention or they genuinely have a mental condition of some sort.

Granted, that's not at all the same as transgendered people, but whathisface's comment about claiming to be a horse got me started.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Gaming community? gak dude, just read any YouTube comments. The Internet is full of anonymous people and trolls who'll say whatever they can to get a reaction.

There is a theory for that.

Yes, thank you, I had forgotten to post that.