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2014/11/06 02:43:24
Subject: How do you help stop this type of harassing behavior?
context my good man, if walking down the street is "context" then so is "clothes, make up, ect"
Except, we're not. In fact, if Frazz and I are on the same page, we're not talking about the woman at all.
So its mens fault that they cannot read minds and have to actually ask women if they would like to talk/date/ect?
again, what is the actual, distinguashable and concrete difference between a woman walking down the street who would not mind if someone asked her out, and one who would mind?
the answer is, "the one who says no is not interested, the one who says yes, is interested"
the answer is not "every single girl on the street doesnt want to talk to you, ever, and you are harrasing any girl you talk to if its on the street."
Allow me to spell out my (I won't speak for Frazz at this point) position.
Video is posted.
Cue quite a few posts of "hello isn't harassment", "I say hello all the time!", "Why is wishing someone good day harassment" and other such posts.
My context post is meant to essentially say: "context is key. Not everyone wishing someone a good evening is harassing someone. But looking at the context of the video, the situation many of you describe is not what is going on in this video".
I, personally, live in a small town. I say things like "have a good night", "have a good day" all the time. I say it to cashiers when they ring me up to be polite. I say it to people for whom I hold the door to be polite. I do not say it as shorthand for "I want my face buried between your thighs".
That is the context I'm talking about. The how and why they are behaving the way that they are; the social and nonverbal cues that go along with the actual words that provide context to the conversation.
You're kind of attributing a lot to people whom you don't know personally and only through a video. It's possible to argue that they said Hi because they want to get to know the woman better but the fact is you went straight from there to claiming they want to bury their faces in her thighs. I think this probably says a bit more about you than it does about them.
Also, my social interactions with other people are fine. There's no need to weep for them. It's just another example of you being a holier-than-thou kind of person considering you don't even know me, or even the different cultures we live in but can post such an asinine statement.
Sining wrote: If there's nothing to hide, then they CAN answer the questions. That tactic shouldn't be to stop people from throwing out questions even if those questions are there to spread FUD.
Is it true that your account is a sockpuppet account you started to get around a Dakka ban? I heard that somewhere.
I can neither confirm nor deny that.
But no, and good example.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/11/06 02:44:01
My warmachine batrep & other misc stuff blog
http://sining83.blogspot.com/
2014/11/06 03:11:04
Subject: Re:How do you help stop this type of harassing behavior?
It's new york. You now how many times I have had people yell threats of stabbing me in the throat, gouging out my eyes and skull fahking me for wearing the wrong sports jersey or team hat?
It's gakky thing, it's not a racial problem or misogynist issue. New York just has a lot of bad disgusting areas.
North Philly is pleasant compared to many streets in New York.
If there was a solution to this, I would assume parenting. Raise your kids to respect your fellow human beings. Don't be a dick.
Oh yeah, never wear a yankee hat in Boston.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/11/06 03:14:23
2014/11/06 05:06:01
Subject: How do you help stop this type of harassing behavior?
Also keep in mind guys the whole 'Men must ask women out' thing does exist in our culture somewhat.
I don't know about new york but i'm sure there's a lot of vocal people there and plenty which aren't too great to talk to.
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I dunno i've heard some things like people being really bad with women over xbox live or similar. The truth being xbox live is terrible for everybody esp. depending on the game. Try playing a competitive, popular or possibly stupid game (like a shooter game) and all the worst people of the gaming crowd will be there. The fact they're also bad to women is not like the exception to them being bad so much as them being jerks to everybody for the most part. However play a game that is less popular but smarter may have a nicer crowd.
That said women often being a smaller group in most games and the inability to know what they look like changes attitudes. I get the feeling some guys imagine they look way better than they are. I mean don't get me wrong the girls could be a nice catch but sometimes the only thing a girl needs to do to get popularity for gamer guys is to be female and also a gamer. Because you know being a woman is like a big deal and stuff esp. if you play games.
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I feel it's also important to have different views from different people. As was said not every woman wants the same thing (though if she didn't like it she should show she doesn't or doesn't care). Some like flirting but some will show if they do or don't. I know somebody once mentioned our culture has a lot of victimization of women but in my view a lot of this is just perception.
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Finally the woman in the original video was attractive. This is a big difference to say an unattractive or average looking person walking the streets of new york.
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Edit: Also why do people have to be so angered by people of different opinions? Doesn't each have a bit of merit. Then again this is the off-topic forum .
Oh and i don't think i'd like being in New York either if it's anything like L.A. Part of it is that there's too many people, part is it's very dirty and filled with graffiti and part of it is everything good and bad rolled into one super large city. I'm more of a medium sized city kind of guy so that's part of it too.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2014/11/06 05:13:37
Really? I thought L.A. was filled with fake people.
I'm not sure how i'd feel about seattle if that's the case. If it's abstract art then they should get a real job but if it's the other kind then it's probably good in some cases. I can't stop thinking of Bob Ross (the artist) and how peaceful painting seemed to be. Then again i hate painting my models so that's one thing i don't like to paint.
To be fair 'The American Mentality' can work with any country in power at any time. That said a lot of countries with power or wealth in fairly recent times still think things revolve around them or have contempt for countries that seemingly took the reigns of power.
New York is not that bad. Its filled with people who think the world revolves around them. (I.E. The American Mentality)
Chicago is full of rude people.
Detroit is empty.
Miami is filled with fakes.
St. Louis. Hide your wife, hide your kids.
LA is filled with lost souls.
Seattle is filled with artists.
Austin is filled with.... I don't know I've never been there I can't really say.
No, no. I am thinking of New York. New York is diverse but has it's fair share of hipsters. I see them all the time. Every time I go there to visit my friend I have to hear them with their raised voices on how smart they are at a coffee shop or bar for having gone to some gakky community college and got a degree in liberal arts or gender studies.
I love the comments I get on football jerseys from them of "perpetuating" a sexist industry and "slave" labor in sweat shops. Because I'm sure your gakky trilby and shirt with a pun on it was made by someone who wasn't a 9 year old boy working for 50 cents an hour 16 hours a day.
Hipsters are starting to move north into my area. First it started as just a tourist spot for them to see waterfalls and leaves change in the autumn. But now they are moving in.... forever.
I'm not sure how i'd feel about seattle if that's the case. If it's abstract art then they should get a real job but if it's the other kind then it's probably good in some cases. I can't stop thinking of Bob Ross (the artist) and how peaceful painting seemed to be. Then again i hate painting my models so that's one thing i don't like to paint.
To be fair 'The American Mentality' can work with any country in power at any time. That said a lot of countries with power or wealth in fairly recent times still think things revolve around them or have contempt for countries that seemingly took the reigns of power.
Yup LA is filled with fake people.
I'm not a fan of the guy, but Shaq said LA had more fake people than fake boobs.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/11/06 06:25:46
2014/11/06 06:29:48
Subject: Re:How do you help stop this type of harassing behavior?
so a woman wearing clothes, and make up to accentuate her looks is asking for it then?
I am not seeing how my statement and your statement are in any way related.
context my good man, if walking down the street is "context" then so is "clothes, make up, ect"
You know Easysauce, you are getting dangerously close to "Look at the way she dressed. She was asking for it!" as context.
However, I'm sure that is not your intent.
Blame the VIctim! If someone can Godwin this thread I get a Bingo.
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
2014/11/06 14:03:31
Subject: Re:How do you help stop this type of harassing behavior?
Clearly you were only in West LA. If you were in real LA, well its not the lost souls you have to watch out for.
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
2014/11/06 14:27:37
Subject: How do you help stop this type of harassing behavior?
so a woman wearing clothes, and make up to accentuate her looks is asking for it then?
I am not seeing how my statement and your statement are in any way related.
context my good man, if walking down the street is "context" then so is "clothes, make up, ect"
You know Easysauce, you are getting dangerously close to "Look at the way she dressed. She was asking for it!" as context.
However, I'm sure that is not your intent.
Blame the VIctim! If someone can Godwin this thread I get a Bingo.
If you're that close to a Bingo! I'll fall on the grenade for ya.
You know who wasn't allowed to speak to women walking down the street? The Jews in Nazi Germany because they had been rounded up and sent to death camps. You can stop the street harassment by sending millions of people to death camps, there can be no civility without discipline! National Socialism keeps the streets polite so if you want to ban pleasantries exchanged between strangers you're just as bad as Hitler.
Mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur
2014/11/06 15:19:56
Subject: How do you help stop this type of harassing behavior?
so a woman wearing clothes, and make up to accentuate her looks is asking for it then?
I am not seeing how my statement and your statement are in any way related.
context my good man, if walking down the street is "context" then so is "clothes, make up, ect"
You know Easysauce, you are getting dangerously close to "Look at the way she dressed. She was asking for it!" as context.
However, I'm sure that is not your intent.
Blame the VIctim! If someone can Godwin this thread I get a Bingo.
If you're that close to a Bingo! I'll fall on the grenade for ya.
You know who wasn't allowed to speak to women walking down the street? The Jews in Nazi Germany because they had been rounded up and sent to death camps. You can stop the street harassment by sending millions of people to death camps, there can be no civility without discipline! National Socialism keeps the streets polite so if you want to ban pleasantries exchanged between strangers you're just as bad as Hitler.
BINGO!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/11/06 15:21:33
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
2014/11/06 16:57:52
Subject: How do you help stop this type of harassing behavior?
Well to start with the video: it's...debatable. To begin with, a lot of what is considered "harassment" isn't. If you think that saying "Good morning!" or "What's up?" is harassment, the chances are, you're a sociopath. Trying to hit on any other human, be it man or female, isn't harassment. It's basic behavior. If someone tries to hit someone by saying "Hey miss, you got a minute or two?", gets ignored and then backs off, that's perfectly fine. If you disagree, you got issues. Period. If the same guy keeps closing in or remains persistent, then we're entering the harassment area. And, of course, any comments like "Nice donkey!".
That creepy guy following you around...not okay. AT ALL.
The video's racist portrayal doesn't do it much good either, though, to be honest. But alas, that's bound to happen when you look for a specific area to film in
How you could stop this? You can't. I'll start giving my daughter self-defense classes at the age of 8/9 as that's the best thing any human could do at any time. If someone then gets on her too much, he'll get his buttocks kicked. And if I find out about it, I'll sue his sorry butt so that he'll forget about any secondary education.
...and really Dakka? Noone has yet said that she should not have worn jeans with "Sexy Eagle" on her butt? I want my "Blame the Victim!" card. NOW.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/11/06 17:11:37
Sigvatr wrote: Well to start with the video: it's...debatable. To begin with, a lot of what is considered "harassment" isn't. If you think that saying "Good morning!" or "What's up?" is harassment, the chances are, you're a sociopath. Trying to hit on any other human, be it man or female, isn't harassment. It's basic behavior. If someone tries to hit someone by saying "Hey miss, you got a minute or two?", gets ignored and then backs off, that's perfectly fine. If you disagree, you got issues. Period. If the same guy keeps closing in or remains persistent, then we're entering the harassment area. And, of course, any comments like "Nice donkey!".
That creepy guy following you around...not okay. AT ALL.
The video's racist portrayal doesn't do it much good either, though, to be honest. But alas, that's bound to happen when you look for a specific area to film in
you've clearly never been harassed by bums on the street before.
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
2014/11/06 17:17:51
Subject: How do you help stop this type of harassing behavior?
you've clearly never been harassed by bums on the street before.
Go down a street in a problematic quarter, dressed in a tailor-made suit, expensive watch, expensive suitcase and you'll be walking down the Alley of Insults. It's ridiculous. People think that you symbolize the absolute evil and think it's totally a-ok to insult you because society thinks that insulting high-rollers is just fair.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/11/06 17:18:38
New York is not that bad. Its filled with people who think the world revolves around them. (I.E. The American Mentality)
Chicago is full of rude people.
Detroit is empty.
Miami is filled with fakes.
St. Louis. Hide your wife, hide your kids.
LA is filled with lost souls.
Seattle is filled with artists.
Austin is filled with.... I don't know I've never been there I can't really say.
Those sound like the most stereotypical stereotypes I've heard in a while. I haven't been to Chicago proper in a while, but last time I was up there for a business trip, people seemed no more or less rude than anywhere. I don't know what 'fakes' are, but all I can think of are old people and college kids in... well, really anywhere in Florida. Might have just been the areas though. And St. Louis? Really? What areas of St. Louis were you vacationing in?
Go down a street in a problematic quarter, dressed in a tailor-made suit, expensive watch, expensive suitcase and you'll be walking down the Alley of Insults. It's ridiculous. People think that you symbolize the absolute evil and think it's totally a-ok to insult you because society thinks that insulting high-rollers is just fair.
Good sir, I recommend you nary a doff of your top hat to such ilk, continue covering your face with your handkerchief so as to best maintain your sensibilities amidst the reek of such unwashed vagabonds, and make for fairer environs absent of such scoundrels and uncouth ruffians.
Those sound like the most stereotypical stereotypes I've heard in a while.
What's an unstereotypical stereotype?
Well, the redundancy was supposed to be at attempt at humor, but I suppose you could make an argument for an attempt at stereotyping people in ways not pervasively held to be true? Maybe that's just a generalization. I don't know.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/11/06 17:33:13
Prestor Jon wrote: Because children don't have any legal rights until they're adults. A minor is the responsiblity of the parent and has no legal rights except through his/her legal guardian or parent.
2014/11/06 19:15:46
Subject: How do you help stop this type of harassing behavior?
but its ok, the rules of dakka allow people to personally attack, and be rude to, people of certain classes that our society allows/encourages discrimination/stereotyping against.
2014/11/06 19:44:44
Subject: How do you help stop this type of harassing behavior?
but its ok, the rules of dakka allow people to personally attack, and be rude to, people of certain classes that our society allows/encourages discrimination/stereotyping against.
The model in the video is very pretty.
She was wearing well fitting clothes that reinforce that she is pretty.
She is not responsible for those with poor impulse control and their behavior.
Many communications she received were really poorly performed attempts at gaining her notice.
Yes, some other elements were really creepy.
So, how do we train guys into understanding that a random encounter with a very good looking person is not an opportunity to try to ask her out?
Or in some cases, to take a better look which is rather insulting.
At the very least to drive the idea that chances of it all working out is close to nil.
What is rather sad is many comments were based on a genuine appreciation of her appearance.
This is probably why they feel it is okay to express themselves "it is only paying her a compliment" no matter how unwanted it may be.
Rather funny people were expecting her to be "polite" and say thank-you.
Channeling my own selfish lizard brain if I were them I would be thanking my lucky stars she is not wearing a large loose sweater that form-fits like a sack of potatoes.
If someone was to walk down the street and look that good, why creep them out and discourage them from dressing nice?
Yep, short-sighted thinking coupled with poor impulse control.
A revolution is an idea which has found its bayonets.
Napoleon Bonaparte
2014/11/06 20:05:11
Subject: How do you help stop this type of harassing behavior?
or as Frazzled would have said in ancient Mod times: Sort yourselves out or I'll be wearing your guts for garters!
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
2014/11/06 20:15:46
Subject: Re:How do you help stop this type of harassing behavior?
Prestor Jon wrote: Because children don't have any legal rights until they're adults. A minor is the responsiblity of the parent and has no legal rights except through his/her legal guardian or parent.
2014/11/06 20:16:09
Subject: How do you help stop this type of harassing behavior?
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