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 Ensis Ferrae wrote:
he had basically stood at attention and took the entire beating and did nothing, not even to defend himself.

That kind of thing is probably not unusual. A lot of men (including me) were brought up believing that hitting a woman is about the worst thing you can do, and so 'choose' not to fight back when attacked by women, even though they would be capable. This is implies that they do still have some degree of control over the situation. Someone who was genuinely afraid for their life would struggle and fight back. I'm not going to say that is always the case 100% of the time, but I imagine it is far more common than when the roles are reversed.

 Smacks wrote:

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:
he had basically stood at attention and took the entire beating and did nothing, not even to defend himself.

That kind of thing is probably not unusual. A lot of men (including me) were brought up believing that hitting a woman is about the worst thing you can do, and so 'choose' not to fight back when attacked by women, even though they would be capable. This is implies that they do still have some degree of control over the situation. Someone who was genuinely afraid for their life would struggle and fight back. I'm not going to say that is always the case 100% of the time, but I imagine it is far more common than when the roles are reversed.

IMO, he was doing that outside, where everyone could see probably for the exact reason that NO ONE previously believed the guy when he said that his wife regularly "beat" him... And with the way cops are (MPs included) if he had done ANYTHING to defend himself, probably would have been taking a ride in the backseat of a government owned vehicle with some silver jewelry on, because the way the system currently operates, it's obviously the "man's fault".

 Smacks wrote:

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:
he had basically stood at attention and took the entire beating and did nothing, not even to defend himself.

That kind of thing is probably not unusual. A lot of men (including me) were brought up believing that hitting a woman is about the worst thing you can do, and so 'choose' not to fight back when attacked by women, even though they would be capable. This is implies that they do still have some degree of control over the situation. Someone who was genuinely afraid for their life would struggle and fight back. I'm not going to say that is always the case 100% of the time, but I imagine it is far more common than when the roles are reversed.

Probably also has a lot to do with the fact that the police will automatically assume the man is the perpetrator, and one stray hair on her head could be the difference between him going to prison or not.

The only time I ever recall "hitting" a female was when a girl tried to kick me in school. I deflected it by kicking her leg. Hard. She wasn't happy.

This thread had an impact on me.

I saw a woman who had a striking and interesting hair style at the gas station. We passed, and I thought about giving her a brief compliment about her hair as we passed.

I thought about this thread and I did not compliment her.

 Easy E wrote:
This thread had an impact on me.
I saw a woman who had a striking and interesting hair style at the gas station. We passed, and I thought about giving her a brief compliment about her hair as we passed.
I thought about this thread and I did not compliment her.

Funny, I have made compliments to strangers in the past with no intent on hitting-on/flirting.
I admit I am less likely to say anything as well.
Funny how good-will toward another becomes bothersome to the recipient (potentially).

 Easy E wrote:
This thread had an impact on me.

I saw a woman who had a striking and interesting hair style at the gas station. We passed, and I thought about giving her a brief compliment about her hair as we passed.

I thought about this thread and I did not compliment her.

Did you at least stare rape her?

 Smacks wrote:

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:
he had basically stood at attention and took the entire beating and did nothing, not even to defend himself.

That kind of thing is probably not unusual. A lot of men (including me) were brought up believing that hitting a woman is about the worst thing you can do, and so 'choose' not to fight back when attacked by women, even though they would be capable. This is implies that they do still have some degree of control over the situation. Someone who was genuinely afraid for their life would struggle and fight back. I'm not going to say that is always the case 100% of the time, but I imagine it is far more common than when the roles are reversed.[/quote

that's total BS... not hitting back doesn't mean you have control, you are just justifying blaming the victim.
You may as well suggest that rape victim have control and its not that seroius because they dont fight back against the rapist...
Not hitting back is because hitting back just means the man will suffer legal/social consequences on top of physical ones, not to mention hitting the woman could cause her to just escalate further and grab a knife.

again the whole "men are too big and strong" to get beaten trope. the facts prove other wise, 45% of men when hit by women in DV cases have serious injuries from it, 65% of women do, if we decrease the amount of women to 46%, does that somehow turn it into "slap tantrums" against women?

 Easy E wrote:
This thread had an impact on me.

I saw a woman who had a striking and interesting hair style at the gas station. We passed, and I thought about giving her a brief compliment about her hair as we passed.

I thought about this thread and I did not compliment her.

Thats good. Maybe you were spared a bitch slap when she didn't feel like you had any right to judge her looks in the first place.

 Smacks wrote:

I'm not trivializing *actual* violence. I'm just pointing out that the "violence" in your studies is poorly defined. There aught to be some distinction between a slap and a blow that might put you in hospital, but it's impossible to tell which it is from your graphs.

The CDC facts I provided specifically did out line the things to differentiate between a slap, and *serious* injury, you must not have read it very well.
according to the CDC:
men are *seriously* injured 45% of the time in DV, woman 65%.

if we somehow reduce womans % to 45%, that doesnt make assaults against them "slap tantrums" at all. having a 20% difference in serious injury rates in DV doesnt give you any right, reason, or basis to generalize that men just recieve "slap tantrums"
from women. Its just furthering s sexist trope that "big bad men" cant be hurt by women.

remember, this is in addition to women instigating 70% of all DV where the violence was completely one sided.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Smacks wrote:

A Department of Justice study found that 90% of homicides are committed by men. I think that's my point made. Men are far more likely to overreact to the point of maiming or killing someone, so men accusing women of overreacting is laughable.

most *criminal* not domestic or spousal violent crime, is man on man crime, with males being both the most common victim and perpetrator.

Men are far more likely to be the victim of criminal violence as well, but who cares right?

I mean with an argument like "criminal men commit more violence against men, therefore, its not possible that women overeact to anything." how can you lose?

I could say "woman do more hooking then men, therefor its not possible for men to inappropriately ask for sex, as statistically its more likely that woman on the streets a hooker." and while it follows your own brand of bullet proof logic, i doubt many would agree with me.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Frazzled wrote:

 Easy E wrote:
This thread had an impact on me.

I saw a woman who had a striking and interesting hair style at the gas station. We passed, and I thought about giving her a brief compliment about her hair as we passed.

I thought about this thread and I did not compliment her.

Thats good. Maybe you were spared a bitch slap when she didn't feel like you had any right to judge her looks in the first place.

so I should slap the next woman/man who complements me in the street too as thats the acceptable response now?

 Frazzled wrote:

Violence should not be tolerated.

now im just confused....

so I should slap the next woman/man who complements me in the street too as thats the acceptable response now?

I doubt it will be an issue.

Dude, make up your mind. First you say "Violence should not be tolerated", and now you're saying complimenting someone's appearance deserves a bitch slap?

Besides, you used the word "Bitch". Doesn't that violate some law of Feminism?

Had to remind myself of the definition (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Feminism):
I find too often especially of late, it has a strong negative connotation.

"Feminism
The belief that women are and should be treated as potential intellectual equals and social equals to men. These people can be either male or female human beings, although the ideology is commonly (and perhaps falsely) associated mainly with women.

The basic idea of Feminism revolves around the principle that just because human bodies are designed to perform certain procreative functions, biological elements need not dictate intellectual and social functions, capabilities, and rights.

Feminism also, by its nature, embraces the belief that all people are entitled to freedom and liberty within reason--including equal civil rights--and that discrimination should not be made based on gender, sexual orientation, skin color, ethnicity, religion, culture, or lifestyle.

Feminists--and all persons interested in civil equality and intellectuality--are dedicated to fighting the ignorance that says people are controlled by and limited to their biology.

Feminism is the belief that all people are entitled to the same civil rights and liberties and can be intellectual equals regardless of gender. However, you should still hold the door for a feminist; this is known as respect or politeness and need have nothing whatever to do with gender discrimination."

I am thinking that women should shoot for the same "civil rights" as men and avoid the same "treatment" as men.
I find there is a fundamental difference between the two and would not be to their favor...

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
Dude, make up your mind. First you say "Violence should not be tolerated", and now you're saying complimenting someone's appearance deserves a bitch slap?

Besides, you used the word "Bitch". Doesn't that violate some law of Feminism?

There is no conflict. You can't hit a girl. Girls-and their shotgun toting fathers- are however free to hit boors.

#doublestandards

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
Dude, make up your mind. First you say "Violence should not be tolerated", and now you're saying complimenting someone's appearance deserves a bitch slap?

Besides, you used the word "Bitch". Doesn't that violate some law of Feminism?

It doesn't violate a law of feminism. However, he did culturally appropriate an African-American hip hop term and fail to check his imperialist white cismale gender normative privilege.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Frazzled wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
Dude, make up your mind. First you say "Violence should not be tolerated", and now you're saying complimenting someone's appearance deserves a bitch slap?

Besides, you used the word "Bitch". Doesn't that violate some law of Feminism?

There is no conflict. You can't hit a girl. Girls-and their shotgun toting fathers- are however free to hit boors.

What about guys that aren't from South Africa?

What about guys that aren't from South Africa?

Boors not Boers

Boers are ok if they have provide the dad with a nice authentic assegai, and will be downright treated as good people if they can produce a working Martini Henry for dad.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
#doublestandards

I'm a dad. OF COURSE I have double standards.

 easysauce wrote:
I mean with an argument like "criminal men commit more violence against men, therefore, its not possible that women overeact to anything." how can you lose?

Well actually my argument is much stronger than that. Though it was less of an "argument" and more of a remark, which really isn't that important to the topic, but you seem to take issue with it. So lets go over it from the start.

I said that men have a greater tendency towards violent behavior.
While this might be a bit of a stereotype, it is also backed up by the fact that 90% of homicides are committed by men and the vast majority of violent crimes.

You then took issue with that statement and for some reason tried to argue that actually women are more violent.
And to back that up you cite statistics about domestic violence, which only represents a small potion of total violence anyway. And even within that small portion, women inflict fewer injuries.

After that you seem to just be flailing around fighting your own straw men. I never said it was "impossible" for women to be violent, I never said violence was acceptable, I never said men shouldn't be entitled to shelter.

It is not my intention to "lose" by arguing stupid points that you want me to argue. I made a fair assertion that men are responsible for more violence around the world. If you can show that is incorrect, then I will happily concede the point.

If you just want to grind your axe about domestic violence, then please leave me out of it, I don't disagree with anything you have said on the subject, except when you tried to use the figures to paint women as more violent than men.

 Frazzled wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
#doublestandards

I'm a dad. OF COURSE I have double standards.

So you think its acceptable for a woman to "bitch slap" a man who "judges her looks" by complimenting her hairstyle, but not vice versa?

Thats how I'm interpreting your flippant responses, so if thats not your intent then please clarify. (I'm not intentionally Straw Manning)

I on the other hand think its wrong no matter what the gender. Its wrong for a man OR woman to slap someone who simply compliments them. Word's should not beget violence. If a person is offended by something someone says whatever their respective genders, the right response is to just tell them to piss off.

if a man grabs a woman's ass, thats a different matter entirely.


As said earlier, this illustrates a worrying discrepancy in attitudes towards male on female violence and female on male violence.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
#doublestandards

if a man grabs a woman's ass, thats a different matter entirely.

What if a woman grabs my ass?

Yes, we are dealing with hypothetical situations here

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
#doublestandards

I'm a dad. OF COURSE I have double standards.

So you think its acceptable for a woman to "bitch slap" a man who "judges her looks" by complimenting her hairstyle, but not vice versa?

Thats how I'm interpreting your flippant responses, so if thats not your intent then please clarify. (I'm not intentionally Straw Manning)

I on the other hand think its wrong no matter what the gender. Its wrong for a man OR woman to slap someone who simply compliments them. Word's should not beget violence. If a person is offended by something someone says whatever their respective genders, the right response is to just tell them to piss off.

if a man grabs a woman's ass, thats a different matter entirely.


As said earlier, this illustrates a worrying discrepancy in attitudes towards male on female violence and female on male violence.

I point you to line #3 of FRazzleds signature.
I still don't know if frazz's posts are 100% serious or not , sometimes I feel like me must act like an agent provocateur , then other times I'm not so sure. Hell ,who cares he keeps OT interesting

Messed up your quotes there

But yes. If its ok for a woman to slap a man then the reverse should be true too.

Otherwise, you don't have equality, you have special treatment for one gender thats allowed to respond to sexual harassment with violence but the other gender is not.

I don't think anyone in here actually made the claim that it's okay, in any situation, to hit another person despite self-defense.

 Smacks wrote:

 easysauce wrote:
I mean with an argument like "criminal men commit more violence against men, therefore, its not possible that women overeact to anything." how can you lose?

Well actually my argument is much stronger than that. Though it was less of an "argument" and more of a remark, which really isn't that important to the topic, but you seem to take issue with it. So lets go over it from the start.

I said that men have a greater tendency towards violent behavior.
While this might be a bit of a stereotype, it is also backed up by the fact that 90% of homicides are committed by men and the vast majority of violent crimes.
.

yes its a stereotype,

men are the vast majority of perpetrators, and victims... with an almost perfect correlated ratio of 1-1 victim to perpetrators (IE every man who kills, kills a man, statistically at least)

what on earth do women have to worry about, when its man on man criminal actions, if your not a man or criminal, you are in the clear with those statistics.

Not to mention motives in crime other then "he just snapped/ovvereacted" do exist, people kill people over something generally, not randomly as you suggest.

if you are going to claim that because more men murder then women, that men are more prone to randomly kill you on the street, and that justifies all women being afraid of men killing them on the street.

Then that same logic supports the idea that because more women are hooking on the street, that women are more likely to be open to sex propositions on the street.

its a silly and sexist statement, you can see its a stereotype yet you are more then willing to further it.









Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Frazzled wrote:

so I should slap the next woman/man who complements me in the street too as thats the acceptable response now?

I doubt it will be an issue.

I had a woman complement my coat the other day, its very pertinent... woman approach me all the flipping time... more so now that I have a long time GF who makes me look all sexy in my clothes... wait, are women also allowed to judge me based on clothes? cause its weird, now that my GF picks out really nice clothes that make me look rich/handsome i get wayyyy more attention then I used to with the hoodies and runners. Many women also tell me they tend to make judgments on men based on their clothes in general, cars and shoes in particular.

at least you ll admit its a double standard though.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
#doublestandards

I'm a dad. OF COURSE I have double standards.

So you think its acceptable for a woman to "bitch slap" a man who "judges her looks" by complimenting her hairstyle, but not vice versa?

Of course. I don't know what uncilvized land you inhabit, but here "he needed killin your honor" remains a valid defense. This is just polite admoinishment, like your mamma would do if she had raised you properly.

I on the other hand think its wrong no matter what the gender. Its wrong for a man OR woman to slap someone who simply compliments them.

Its not the complement. Its that you don't have the right to intrude and judge them. So smack for you!

Word's should not beget violence.

Words beget violence all the time, just like "hold my beer and watch this" begets hospital visits.

If a person is offended by something someone says whatever their respective genders, the right response is to just tell them to piss off.

Public urination is usually illegal. Its also subject to another slapping if done in front of a lady. How do your mammas raise you there?

if a man grabs a woman's ass, thats a different matter entirely.

Remember, guns don't kill people. Husbands who come home early, kill people.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

I had a woman complement my coat the other day, its very pertinent... woman approach me all the flipping time... more so now that I have a long time GF who makes me look all sexy in my clothes... wait, are women also allowed to judge me based on clothes? cause its weird, now that my GF picks out really nice clothes that make me look rich/handsome i get wayyyy more attention then I used to with the hoodies and runners. Many women also tell me they tend to make judgments on men based on their clothes in general, cars and shoes in particular.

She's training you quite well isn't she. Us Menz never realize until its too late. ..

 easysauce wrote:
if you are going to claim that because more men murder then women, that men are more prone to randomly kill you on the street, and that justifies all women being afraid of men killing them on the street.

But that wasn't my argument at all. I wasn't even talking about women being afraid of men.

My point was that men are more likely to choose violence as a solution to their problems. It doesn't have to be criminal violence, I also hear men spout a lot of very violent ideas when they discuss the treatment of criminals, and whoever else they deem undesirable. Try searching dakka for the term "bullet in the head".

And the point of that was never to justify women being afraid of men. I was just pointing out the irony of men calling women crazy fascists, when actually the majority of crazy fascist ideas regarding, crime, politics, and general living seem to come from men.

 Sigvatr wrote:
I don't think anyone in here actually made the claim that it's okay, in any situation, to hit another person despite self-defense.

Thats how I was interpreting Frazzled's remarks. Hard to tell with that guy. Not sure if serious.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:
I don't think anyone in here actually made the claim that it's okay, in any situation, to hit another person despite self-defense.

Thats how I was interpreting Frazzled's remarks. Hard to tell with that guy. Not sure if serious.

Of course I'm serious! If I were being comical I'd say she should have the right to run you over with her pickup truck, which is the more correct time honored tradition.

"I really like you hair."
SQUISH "That'll teach that Yankee to talk to a proper lady." (Backs up) SQUISH.
because if Zombieland has taught us anything, its double tap.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
Messed up your quotes there

But yes. If its ok for a woman to slap a man then the reverse should be true too.

Otherwise, you don't have equality, you have special treatment for one gender thats allowed to respond to sexual harassment with violence but the other gender is not.

The problem here is that I remembered I have a daughter. She indeed has the right to beat hell out of anyone that even looks at her funny, and they will be great ful she doesn't break out the Beretta and the pliers. Its in the Texas Constitution. For you normal people yes, nonviolence is key and should be applied equitably. You don't get to hit just because you're a girl. This, as noted does not apply to my loving, kind, gentle, never ever ever sarcastic or moody daughter.


Or else.

 Smacks wrote:

 easysauce wrote:
if you are going to claim that because more men murder then women, that men are more prone to randomly kill you on the street, and that justifies all women being afraid of men killing them on the street.

But that wasn't my argument at all. I wasn't even talking about women being afraid of men.

My point was that men are more likely to choose violence as a solution to their problems. It doesn't have to be criminal violence, I also hear men spout a lot of very violent ideas when they discuss the treatment of criminals, and whoever else they deem undesirable. Try searching dakka for the term "bullet in the head".

And the point of that was never to justify women being afraid of men. I was just pointing out the irony of men calling women crazy fascists, when actually the majority of crazy fascist ideas regarding, crime, politics, and general living seem to come from men.

no one called women crazy fascists... so if your intent is to point out that irony, then your intent is unrelated to anything actually said.

in terms of violence, between men and woman specifically, men are more likely to be hit by a woman, then vise versa. WHile women get severely beaten 20% more then men, this does not make "slappy tantrums" ok. At least OWN that you did trivialize woman on man violence as "slappy tantrums", you said the words, own them.

You keep using man on man criminal violence as a stat, and an admitted stereotype, in an argument about domestic violence between men and women.

If you want to stereotype that mens go to solution is violence, then you should also stereotype that womens go to solution is sex.

You wouldnt give *men in general* the claim to being the smartest, best inventors, best leaders, ect just because historically, they were numerically superior in these roles?

SO if a positive stereotype isnt ok, why is your negative one ok to use?

personally, I choose to use neither stereotype.




To frazz...

oh yes she is training me well indeed my good sir!


but every parent coddles their daughters like you do (generally speaking), then one day they wake up to see their son had his trust abused by a woman who took half his life savings and kids away...

I mean, when we are at the point where women do in fact hit men just as much in domestic cases, but men literally get turned away and blamed by institutions meant to help them, something is wrong.

I just cannot bring myself to care about my daughters more then my sons, I dont want daughters to have POS boyfriends, and I dont want sons to have POS girlfriends.
\
Both will get the shot gun interview from me!


With al lthat though, on top of men having to deal with everything a woman has to deal with, they also have to deal with culturally upheld, encouraged, supported, and perpetuated double standards that negatively affect them.
no wonder mens suicide rates are so disproportionately high, not only does no one care, everyone actively encourages stereotypes that work against men.

@Frazzled
So what you're saying is...you're the ultimate psychotic over protective dad from hell? Pros and Cons I guess. Personal attack dog vs scaring off all guys.