Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Aren't they already in the Time of Ending?

But nah, personally I would prefer they didn't do an End Times for 40K. As is, things are on too much of a knife-edge. There's the possibility that things advancing would either have the Imperium get too badly messed up to have any real hope, or the threats get pushed back/contained by some deus ex machina and made to look less serious.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

 TheCrazyCryptek wrote:

 Veteran Sergeant wrote:
I'm just fine with nothing happening in 40K.

It's the way it's always been, and the way it always should be.

Way too many ways for GW to screw the pooch with a timeline advancement.

Be careful what you wish for.

My thoughts it exactly. This would be a bad idea. Besides, Abaddon making it to Terra means he destroyed Cadia. That first step alone is gonna make for a lot of pissed off AM players.

Because every AM player is a Cadian player.

Did I say they are all Cadian players? No, I don't believe I did. Perhaps you should actually post useful things.

But, a lot of people do play as Cadian regiments who would not be pleased I imagine.

 Bobthehero wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Bobthehero wrote:
Aye, 'sides, who's to say Abaddon won't get his ass handed to him, and the End Times of 40k is actually the Imperium beating back its various foes.

If it's anything like the WHF version, it actually means lots of special characters on the Imperium and Eldar side would get whacked, not the other way round.

I know, I am saying what if they did it the other way around, for a change, not that it'll ever happen, but hey.

Yeah and then half of them comeback with supped up statlines...

If they executed it well, then feth yeah.

I hope that this happens the return of the pirmarchs would be awesome, same with hopefully some way to finally destroy chaos and the tyranid threat across the galaxy, orks become pirates basically because they get caught in the crossfire but can never actually be completely destroyed cause spores, most necrons get destroyed, and an uneasy alliance ensues between the tau, eldar, and imperium. And hopefully alot of imperial mercenary split offs to introduce some new cool models. Anyway thats just my take of what i think should happen cheers!

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

 TheCrazyCryptek wrote:

 Veteran Sergeant wrote:
I'm just fine with nothing happening in 40K.

It's the way it's always been, and the way it always should be.

Way too many ways for GW to screw the pooch with a timeline advancement.

Be careful what you wish for.

My thoughts it exactly. This would be a bad idea. Besides, Abaddon making it to Terra means he destroyed Cadia. That first step alone is gonna make for a lot of pissed off AM players.

Because every AM player is a Cadian player.

Yeah, but the Cadians are the most heavily branded IGuard regiment.

There's zero chance Cadia gets destroyed. Just from a business perspective, lol.

The FFG RPG Only War (p. 319) has a bit where it says the Administratum is aware of at least 3 dozen worlds called Nova Cadia, presumably founded by Cadian regiments. Cadia itself is not critical for the continuation of the Cadian miniature line at all. If GW really wanted they could destroy the original Cadia, and have another planet be named Cadia in remembrance of their lost home world by Cadian regiments.

It doesn't need to destroy Cadia. You just need to break the blockade so Chaos Crusades can be launched willy nilly with no blockade to intercept them.

 TheCrazyCryptek wrote:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

 TheCrazyCryptek wrote:

 Veteran Sergeant wrote:
I'm just fine with nothing happening in 40K.

It's the way it's always been, and the way it always should be.

Way too many ways for GW to screw the pooch with a timeline advancement.

Be careful what you wish for.

My thoughts it exactly. This would be a bad idea. Besides, Abaddon making it to Terra means he destroyed Cadia. That first step alone is gonna make for a lot of pissed off AM players.

Because every AM player is a Cadian player.

Did I say they are all Cadian players? No, I don't believe I did. Perhaps you should actually post useful things.

But, a lot of people do play as Cadian regiments who would not be pleased I imagine.

Maybe if you posted something useful in return.

However if Cadia dies they likely will have something to keep for it, there's Cadian regiments all across the galaxy, they might end up remnants with actual rules, heck there are some major AM regiment factions that are far smaller and still are represented.

Abbadon failing yet again after boosting his power, fixing his black crusades to make them seem less like failures, and then after all this failed to do anything of meaning would just be another slap in the face to Chaos after the old Campaign already showed they'd be willing to bend the rules for what they want to happen.

GW could just implement the Eye of Terror campaign results instead of trying to retcon them. It was a Chaos victory, making the setting darker, and Abaddon had broken out past Cadia, though Cadia itself had not entirely fallen. Things got darker without breaking the setting, as it also had the Imperium drawing reinforcements from further afield in order to reinforce its interior. Of course this meant other factions had renewed opportunity to pick at the Imperium's suddenly weaker periphery.

40k has an entire galaxy to play with. They could have an all encompassing two year long themed campaign with new books and characters and results that affected the campaign and new missions and detachments and alternative psyker rules to reflect the varying of the warp in the vicinity of the massive conflagration...

And still have it be one tiny corner of the the galaxy.

Why on earth would anyone want them to be daft enough to 'advance' the story rather than just tell a good story in one part of this galaxy, thus allowing the rest of us to keep telling our stories without having to feel like our stories don't match the big event anymore?

I'd be all for some actual expansion of the 40k setting, and while I'd be up for an "End Times" affair, it is important to note that there are 10 millenia of Imperial history as of yet almost completely undeveloped.

If GW wanted to expand the 40k license without risking "mucking things up," why not actually expand upon the oft-referenced Age of Apostasy, the Nova Terra Interregnum, the Macharian Crusade/Heresy, the Scouring, etc. There are lots of "eras" they could develop with new units, characters and the like, not unlike how WW2 games usually have an early/mid/late war mechanic.

That being said, I don't have much confidence in GW doing much justice to any project like this. The End Times have proven interesting from a narrative perspective, and I've enjoyed them thus far, but they're incredibly lazy from a rules perspective, and remain an anomaly in terms of narrative quality. Most GW studio publications are vapid, shallow and childish, seemingly intentionally so, with the codexes and supplements being especially guilty of that, with a handful of exceptions.

Even if, say, GW has turned a new leaf and is now going to write more narrative interesting and developed products (Shield of Baal will be telling in that regard), they still haven't demonstrated any talent whatsoever in writing both interesting and balanced rules. What did the End Times provide, rules wise, between two expensive book sets? More lords and heros, as a lazy way to try and provide an avenue for people to avoid the massive sticker shock in getting a fantasy army, a few new/updated characters and some combined army lists. What does Shield of Baal promise? Some Tyranid formations and rules for the new models they're releasing. hardly the stuff of legend, sure to build an outpouring of enthusiasm for the product.

 MajorStoffer wrote:
I'd be all for some actual expansion of the 40k setting, and while I'd be up for an "End Times" affair, it is important to note that there are 10 millenia of Imperial history as of yet almost completely undeveloped.

If GW wanted to expand the 40k license without risking "mucking things up," why not actually expand upon the oft-referenced Age of Apostasy, the Nova Terra Interregnum, the Macharian Crusade/Heresy, the Scouring, etc. There are lots of "eras" they could develop with new units, characters and the like, not unlike how WW2 games usually have an early/mid/late war mechanic.

Because not every faction has 10k years to work with. The Tyranids arrived only in in late M41, and similarly the Tau have only been active for a few centuries. Necrons have only been recognized as such again since Sanctuary 101. Essentially if GW restricts only to the past of the Imperium, all players of those races will be forever locked out.

Sure, one could handwave and say it is a bunch of random alien monsters or minor alien race, but most people play their factions to play actually as them not as some sort of "counts as". Although some might raise the argument of random Necrons waking up ahead of schedule, the problem with that is it similarly constrains what the Necron faction in any campaign or expansion can accomplish, since the Imperium is not aware of Necrons til Sanctuary 101 which is in 897.M41. In other words, any early waking Necrons have to accomplish next to nothing and go back to sleep or sit around doing nothing for thousands of years and the Imperium needs to forget and remain entirely unaware of them until their first contact at Sanctuary 101. A similar situation exists if one tries to argue there may have been early Tyranid scouting forces.

The timeline was moving forward steadily right up til the 13th Black Crusade, at a rate of about 1 game year per real life year. This didn't destroy the setting and there is no reason why a similar slow crawl forward would suddenly destroy the setting. People keep acting as if moving the timeline forward were some dangerous never before tried thing, when in reality, it was the standard case until the last few editions. People also make the error of equating timeline advancement with stupendous overturning change such as the Emperor dying or Primarchs returning, when nothing of the sort needs to happen. The slow steady incremental advancement of the timeline in past editions did not involve this, and there is no reason rolling over into M42 could not do this incremental movement.

Not only did the setting not explode when the timeline moved forward in the past, but the advancement allowed for the advancement of individual character stories, even though the larger universe stayed largely status quo. For example, only when there was movement was Tycho able to evolve as a character, from a generic BA captain, to being disfigured as a result of being felled by a Weirdboy in a battle report, to then the masked Tycho, and finally to his death. Similarly, Yarrick developed through his defeat on Golgotha (an Epic Squat/Imperial vs. Ork battle report), heightening the rivalry between him and Ghazghkull. A lot of the background which gets taken for granted today did not spring up unchanging and set in stone, but developed in gradual steps as a result of timeline movement. Some people might question what is the point of incremental advancement if the larger picture is not radically changed, and the answer is it allows for individual stories to change and progress.

Maybe not to the same scale, but I would love to see more back and forth in the Fluff every couple editions to change it up.

Doesn't have to be a giant step, but little things here and there. First off, Chaos wins the 13th black crusade.

Then around 9th or so, Abaddon finds an X that will allow him to y.

around 11th, until recently unknown Space Marine Chapter 246 recovers X from Abaddon.

around 13th, Abaddon Converts Chapter 246 and gets X back.

Around 15h, Calgar gets ahold of and destroys X, leaving abaddon back at square one,

Something to that effect that, while overall changes nothing (except Cadia, but Chaos should have had that anyways), but adds new flavor to the fluff.]

Same could be done for any race( and preferably EVERY race)

And I'm totally for them doing incremental advances, hell, I just want GW to do something other than these shallow, unrelated, underdeveloped "Campaign Supplements" for things no one cares about and has no bearing on anything consequence.

No one was asking for Crimson Slaughter or the Red Waagh, or these other "out of the blue" products. What they want is products which tie in to or build upon the wider universe, whether that's expanding the background (when has a story/product not been set in 999M41 after all? Just look at the timeline in the BRB...., 999M41 is the largest section by several orders of magnitude) or taking steps forwards with the factions and characters people care about, it doesn't matter, but GW's performance with the 40k IP has so far not indicated they have the desire or competency to do so.

The only genuinely interesting 40k product I've read out of GW prime was the Farsight Enclaves supplement. It gave you rules to play the army that matches the character, and expanded upon a well liked, but ultimately undeveloped character and subfaction quite dramatically (and gave us 40k's first functional democracy). That was cool, that was what I'd like to see GW build upon that, rather than the path they've taken instead and write stories which don't matter, invent characters on the fly and kill them off within moments and ultimately fail to do anything of interest or consequence.

Meanwhile, Alan Bligh and co continue to produce superb, enjoyable and notable, but no universe-shattering stories, campaigns and rules with a continuous cast of characters and factions which have grown, developed and changed over the years of their writing.

40k end times already happened, all they would need to do is expand upon the 13th black crusade and add new characters and models, chuck in campaign books that allow for special "allied" detachments and your a go.

Why would I want an End to 40k ?

End Times 2014 for whfb is one thing, 20 years of end times after 2014 .....

Think about it. 40 k exists for decades. You can't have "apokalyptic changes" each year, so your game has to have a stable ground to build upon. Eternal War provides this. End times however raise the expectations of an "end" to something.

I'd wait for the development in whfb to its conclusion, keep an eye where they move after that. The Fantasy game is also a single Planet game.A Different scale IMO.
Maybe if someone used more than 2 braincells at GW HQ and campaigns "zoomed in" and the changes were about small parts of a world ( and thus "to scale" with 40k armies ) , they would fare better ?
Leveled cities may rise again. Destroyed species and systems however...

So NO, no end times for me please.

Thanks for the replies guys. Didn't expect that many.

Now myself I'd like an End Times and this is what I want to happen:

-Cadia becomes a daemon world
-A second siege of Terra happens, and the Emperor dies as the Golden Throne is damaged in the attack
-Dante dies in the siege
-The GK's are all destroyed
-Abaddon is killed *somehow* and the gods look for a new Warmaster
-The C'tan under Mars awakens during the whole siege and annihilates plenty of Imperial and Chaos forces in it's attempt to flee
-Marneus Calgar is murdered by Cato Sicarius in secret, and Cato becomes the new Smurf chapter master
-The missing loyalist Primarchs return and lead over the fractured Imperium
-The Inquisition is disbanded and it's members hunted down by the Primarchs
-Ghazkull's galactic WAAAGH! is kept busy by the ongoing wave of Tyranids
-The Tau Empire is also defending itself against the Tyranids
-Necrons awake. Necrons awake everywhere

Now obviously none of this will happen, so don't jump on my throat!

 Lord Spartacus wrote:
Thanks for the replies guys. Didn't expect that many.

Now myself I'd like an End Times and this is what I want to happen:

-Cadia becomes a daemon world
-A second siege of Terra happens, and the Emperor dies as the Golden Throne is damaged in the attack
-Dante dies in the siege
-The GK's are all destroyed
-Abaddon is killed *somehow* and the gods look for a new Warmaster
-The C'tan under Mars awakens during the whole siege and annihilates plenty of Imperial and Chaos forces in it's attempt to flee
-Marneus Calgar is murdered by Cato Sicarius in secret, and Cato becomes the new Smurf chapter master
-The missing loyalist Primarchs return and lead over the fractured Imperium
-The Inquisition is disbanded and it's members hunted down by the Primarchs
-Ghazkull's galactic WAAAGH! is kept busy by the ongoing wave of Tyranids
-The Tau Empire is also defending itself against the Tyranids
-Necrons awake. Necrons awake everywhere

Now obviously none of this will happen, so don't jump on my throat!

Is your last name Martin, along with your first name being George? Maybe have RR as extra initials?

I think an incremental Advancement would be fascinating. The Hive fleetLleviathan vs Orks Campaign could be fascinating for instance. Or A kroot/tau/Gu'vesa Vs tyranids campaign. Obviously these are a little more niche because the Imperium isn't involved but they can still have far reaching consequences and advance the story line. The same could be done with a renewed Eldar/ Dark Eldar vs Necron storyline. The use of side systems and characters apart from humanity and it's corrupted cousins could make for fantastic campaigns, compelling story lines and brilliant new models WITHOUT massively changing the setting.
I hope Shield of Baal is a step in this direction.

I want an End Times for Games Workshop.

GW have made the first advancement in a while by the sound of it. Leviathan has made it to the baal system.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
[img]

endlesswaltz123 wrote:

 Lord Spartacus wrote:
Thanks for the replies guys. Didn't expect that many.

Now myself I'd like an End Times and this is what I want to happen:

-Cadia becomes a daemon world
-A second siege of Terra happens, and the Emperor dies as the Golden Throne is damaged in the attack
-Dante dies in the siege
-The GK's are all destroyed
-Abaddon is killed *somehow* and the gods look for a new Warmaster
-The C'tan under Mars awakens during the whole siege and annihilates plenty of Imperial and Chaos forces in it's attempt to flee
-Marneus Calgar is murdered by Cato Sicarius in secret, and Cato becomes the new Smurf chapter master
-The missing loyalist Primarchs return and lead over the fractured Imperium
-The Inquisition is disbanded and it's members hunted down by the Primarchs
-Ghazkull's galactic WAAAGH! is kept busy by the ongoing wave of Tyranids
-The Tau Empire is also defending itself against the Tyranids
-Necrons awake. Necrons awake everywhere

Now obviously none of this will happen, so don't jump on my throat!

Is your last name Martin, along with your first name being George? Maybe have RR as extra initials?

Haha! Lord Spartacus hasn't wiped out ALL the main characters yet.

On a side note - I like your thinking of the advancement there.

I'd hope FW and BL finish their Horus Heresy series before they do anything like end times for 40k. It would provide characters and other little stories they could pick up on and use. As long as after they're done with it the overall situation remains the same, I wouldn't be opposed to it if it means that GW release some nice new models. Honestly though, I prefer the route they seem to be going down at the moment, where they release models and books in little campaigns (Shield of Baal, Sanctus Reach, Dark Vengeance).

Poly Ranger wrote:
GW have made the first advancement in a while by the sound of it. Leviathan has made it to the baal system.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
[img]

endlesswaltz123 wrote:

 Lord Spartacus wrote:
Thanks for the replies guys. Didn't expect that many.

Now myself I'd like an End Times and this is what I want to happen:

-Cadia becomes a daemon world
-A second siege of Terra happens, and the Emperor dies as the Golden Throne is damaged in the attack
-Dante dies in the siege
-The GK's are all destroyed
-Abaddon is killed *somehow* and the gods look for a new Warmaster
-The C'tan under Mars awakens during the whole siege and annihilates plenty of Imperial and Chaos forces in it's attempt to flee
-Marneus Calgar is murdered by Cato Sicarius in secret, and Cato becomes the new Smurf chapter master
-The missing loyalist Primarchs return and lead over the fractured Imperium
-The Inquisition is disbanded and it's members hunted down by the Primarchs
-Ghazkull's galactic WAAAGH! is kept busy by the ongoing wave of Tyranids
-The Tau Empire is also defending itself against the Tyranids
-Necrons awake. Necrons awake everywhere

Now obviously none of this will happen, so don't jump on my throat!

Is your last name Martin, along with your first name being George? Maybe have RR as extra initials?

Haha! Lord Spartacus hasn't wiped out ALL the main characters yet.

On a side note - I like your thinking of the advancement there.

He won't kill them all off. Sansa Stark will survive it all just to troll everyone who doesn't like her.

Joke aside, since we have the new blood angel codex rumoured to be on the horizon, and considering how old the model is... Imagine if they actually killed off Dante and gave a new chapter master for one of the big 4.

To appease moaning players about the now lack of use of old models, just give enough relics to cover a chapter master that can act as Dante.

Actually could kill a fair few major Blood Angel characters and give total new ones.

endlesswaltz123 wrote:
Joke aside, since we have the new blood angel codex rumoured to be on the horizon, and considering how old the model is... Imagine if they actually killed off Dante and gave a new chapter master for one of the big 4.

To appease moaning players about the now lack of use of old models, just give enough relics to cover a chapter master that can act as Dante.

Actually could kill a fair few major Blood Angel characters and give total new ones.

There's a prophecy that a golden warrior will be there to save the Emperor that Dante believes is him. I doubt GW will want to resolve the question by killing Dante off prematurely.

endlesswaltz123 wrote:
Is your last name Martin, along with your first name being George? Maybe have RR as extra initials?

You like that Imperium don't you?

-Right after the Emperor dies a massive psychic shockwave is felt by all imperial psykers driving them insane/killing them.
-A portal opens on the Golden Throne and countless daemons spill from it
-The GK's rush to the hall and contain the unholy host, until Draigo arrives from the portal and closes it with his magic powers. The effort was too big and he dies because of it. The entire chapter perishes during this battle
-Communication is cut off from countless Imperial planets. Bloody revolts ensue.
-Civil war spreads across the Imperium but is eventually stopped by Lorgar.

No No, my reference wasn't because of my like/dislike of the imperium, it was because of the sheer amount of massive characters and legendary factions you were willing to kill off in one coup!

By my count you had:

Big E
Abbs
Dante
Calgar
Every Grey Knight
Every imperial on Cadia (Creed is there right)
Every Custodes member (due to the web way rift when the Big E goes)
Every imperial member who is now stuck on a world in a massive civil war
The expansion of the EoT due to the taking over of cadia would kill EVERY Eldar on craftworlds near the EoT.

I'm not disputing your suggestion, just saying, not since the red wedding has a single chapter marked the death of so many main characters!

I like it though... change is good.

Honestly, it wouldn't matter to me. The only thing I would really want is another international campaign such as the Cities Of Death from a few years back(2006?)

endlesswaltz123 wrote:
No No, my reference wasn't because of my like/dislike of the imperium, it was because of the sheer amount of massive characters and legendary factions you were willing to kill off in one coup!
I'm not disputing your suggestion, just saying, not since the red wedding has a single chapter marked the death of so many main characters!
I like it though... change is good.

I was acting like Mr Martin.