Switch Theme:

Why Isn't the Dreadknight a Walker?  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in us
Devestating Grey Knight Dreadknight







The warp HAS to be quantifiable in someway, case in point the Cadian Pylons the Necrons built that repel the warp.

 SHUPPET wrote:

wtf is this buddhist monk ascendant martial dice arts crap lol
 
   
Made in us
Lesser Daemon of Chaos





Rosedale MD

 Psienesis wrote:
Almost nothing can insta-kill a MC, not even D-weapons. At best, there's a few things that can, through application of certain effects, remove it as a casualty immediately, but such things are few and far between.


My nurgle princes LOVE MC's. AP2 Instant death with poison 4+ is an awesome MC killer.

BloodGod Gaming Gallery

"Pain is an illusion of the senses, fear an illusion of the mind, beyond these only death waits as silent judge o'er all."
— Primarch Mortarion 
   
Made in gb
Shas'ui with Bonding Knife




 Robisagg wrote:
 Psienesis wrote:
Almost nothing can insta-kill a MC, not even D-weapons. At best, there's a few things that can, through application of certain effects, remove it as a casualty immediately, but such things are few and far between.


My nurgle princes LOVE MC's. AP2 Instant death with poison 4+ is an awesome MC killer.


GKs love MCs too; especially their Dreadknights (Str 10 insta-death... That's way too powerful!)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Formosa wrote:
If we're getting picky then none of them are rifles as neither pulse rifles or lasrifles have rifleing as they are energy weapons, and the boltgun is a cannon since it has explosive rounds.

Both rl and in universe people use the terms loosely, for example modern handguns are rifles too since they have rifling.

But to fluff!
The lasrifle is a lasgun, the lascannon is a lasweapon, but we're talking specifically small arms, the colimnator is a shot mode similar to rapid fire etc
seems to me that you are annoyed that you've been shown that your assertion that tau small arms are better than lasguns in tech based only on range and str, utterly ignoring my own posts and others, I try to be polite as much as possible but in this case I must say, your wrong.

If you would like a polite conversation on the subject I'm happy to do so, but your bad attempts to pick holes is very churlish and you make no effort to back up your statements


I'm sorry for being 'churlish' (whatever that is ). I don't really care if this continues as this discussion derailed the thread as how long ago was it that the Dreadknight was actually mentioned?
Tau tech is better but it isn't as easy to mass produce as they cannot exploit economies of scale to the same degree as the filthy IoM guys.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/12/27 10:58:12


 
   
Made in us
Devestating Grey Knight Dreadknight







SGTPozy wrote:
 Robisagg wrote:
 Psienesis wrote:
Almost nothing can insta-kill a MC, not even D-weapons. At best, there's a few things that can, through application of certain effects, remove it as a casualty immediately, but such things are few and far between.


My nurgle princes LOVE MC's. AP2 Instant death with poison 4+ is an awesome MC killer.


GKs love MCs too; especially their Dreadknights (Str 10 insta-death... That's way too powerful!)





Of course they would only be a threat to other MC that they were meant to kill (you don't see a good fight till you see a Daemon and GK MC duke it out!). Also please be polite, everyone else has been so.

As for economies of scale... if we follow this line of thinking we come to the same conclusion that IoM is more technologically advanced as their plasma guns are better AND there are more of plasma guns than pulse rifles/carbines. You... essentially defeated your own argument.

 SHUPPET wrote:

wtf is this buddhist monk ascendant martial dice arts crap lol
 
   
Made in gb
Shas'ui with Bonding Knife




 IHateNids wrote:
a fair few have access to IWND in some form or another

C'tan Shards, Canoptek Spyders & Dreadknights spring to mind as the only ones that dont


What MCs have IWND? I cannot think of a single one :L


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Tau have perfected plasma technology; it is used by almost all of their guns. The IoM has a long way to go as theirs are way too unstable.



Stronger=/= better. A lascannon is stronger than an autocannon but an autocannon can do almost everything better.

What you said about stronger = better... So you agree that Tau guns are better since they are stronger? You defeated your own argument...

Finally, plasma guns are not run-of-the-mill guns and although there *may* be more plasma guns that pulse guns; plasma guns are still maximum 1 per tactical squad, whilst pulse weapons are standard weaponry.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/12/27 12:09:24


 
   
Made in gb
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain





Earth

SGTPozy wrote:
 Robisagg wrote:
 Psienesis wrote:
Almost nothing can insta-kill a MC, not even D-weapons. At best, there's a few things that can, through application of certain effects, remove it as a casualty immediately, but such things are few and far between.


My nurgle princes LOVE MC's. AP2 Instant death with poison 4+ is an awesome MC killer.


GKs love MCs too; especially their Dreadknights (Str 10 insta-death... That's way too powerful!)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Formosa wrote:
If we're getting picky then none of them are rifles as neither pulse rifles or lasrifles have rifleing as they are energy weapons, and the boltgun is a cannon since it has explosive rounds.

Both rl and in universe people use the terms loosely, for example modern handguns are rifles too since they have rifling.

But to fluff!
The lasrifle is a lasgun, the lascannon is a lasweapon, but we're talking specifically small arms, the colimnator is a shot mode similar to rapid fire etc
seems to me that you are annoyed that you've been shown that your assertion that tau small arms are better than lasguns in tech based only on range and str, utterly ignoring my own posts and others, I try to be polite as much as possible but in this case I must say, your wrong.

If you would like a polite conversation on the subject I'm happy to do so, but your bad attempts to pick holes is very churlish and you make no effort to back up your statements


I'm sorry for being 'churlish' (whatever that is ). I don't really care if this continues as this discussion derailed the thread as how long ago was it that the Dreadknight was actually mentioned?
Tau tech is better but it isn't as easy to mass produce as they cannot exploit economies of scale to the same degree as the filthy IoM guys.


Back that statement up with some actual evidence, start a thread and lets see what proof you have of your statements, ill enjoy the debate
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




 Formosa wrote:
SGTPozy wrote:
 Robisagg wrote:
 Psienesis wrote:
Almost nothing can insta-kill a MC, not even D-weapons. At best, there's a few things that can, through application of certain effects, remove it as a casualty immediately, but such things are few and far between.


My nurgle princes LOVE MC's. AP2 Instant death with poison 4+ is an awesome MC killer.


GKs love MCs too; especially their Dreadknights (Str 10 insta-death... That's way too powerful!)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Formosa wrote:
If we're getting picky then none of them are rifles as neither pulse rifles or lasrifles have rifleing as they are energy weapons, and the boltgun is a cannon since it has explosive rounds.

Both rl and in universe people use the terms loosely, for example modern handguns are rifles too since they have rifling.

But to fluff!
The lasrifle is a lasgun, the lascannon is a lasweapon, but we're talking specifically small arms, the colimnator is a shot mode similar to rapid fire etc
seems to me that you are annoyed that you've been shown that your assertion that tau small arms are better than lasguns in tech based only on range and str, utterly ignoring my own posts and others, I try to be polite as much as possible but in this case I must say, your wrong.

If you would like a polite conversation on the subject I'm happy to do so, but your bad attempts to pick holes is very churlish and you make no effort to back up your statements


I'm sorry for being 'churlish' (whatever that is ). I don't really care if this continues as this discussion derailed the thread as how long ago was it that the Dreadknight was actually mentioned?
Tau tech is better but it isn't as easy to mass produce as they cannot exploit economies of scale to the same degree as the filthy IoM guys.


Back that statement up with some actual evidence, start a thread and lets see what proof you have of your statements, ill enjoy the debate



Keep in mind the Tau just seem more advanced compared to the factions they face most often (Astra Militarum and Astartes).

There are branches of the Adeptus Mechanicus and Inquisition that have technology that could probably rival what the Tau have created thus far. You wont see the more advanced technology of the Imperium at work because its too valuable to be wasted and is only brought out when the situation warrants it.

The Tau are also lacking in some areas. Most notably warp related technology.



   
Made in ca
Sybarite Swinging an Agonizer




SGTPozy wrote:


What MCs have IWND? I cannot think of a single one :L

.


Talos and Cronos Pain Engines of Dark Eldar get FnP base and.. turn 3 or 4 get IWND if taken in the Covens supplement.

I like that no one ever complaines about DE monstrous creatures

Nobody probably ever thinks of them

10k+ Tau, Ke'lshan
10k Dark Eldar Kabal of the Flayed skull
1k Scions
 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




The Dreadknight and a lot of the mechanical or construct MCs seem to be weaker in someways than proper walkers.

Most notably they:

- don't have as many chances to be repaired if they get damaged.
- could possibly destroy themselves (Riptide or the Dreadknight warp-periling).
- have other odd rules attached to them (wraithknight only being able to fire two sets of weapons at once, and the riptide taking command checks for loosing drones).
- have fewer hull-points that similarly sized machines.
- aren't as heavily armed as some of their counter-parts (Orkanauts and Imperial Knights).

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/12/27 20:02:30


 
   
Made in gb
Shas'ui with Bonding Knife




The Imperial Answer wrote:
 Formosa wrote:
SGTPozy wrote:
 Robisagg wrote:
 Psienesis wrote:
Almost nothing can insta-kill a MC, not even D-weapons. At best, there's a few things that can, through application of certain effects, remove it as a casualty immediately, but such things are few and far between.


My nurgle princes LOVE MC's. AP2 Instant death with poison 4+ is an awesome MC killer.


GKs love MCs too; especially their Dreadknights (Str 10 insta-death... That's way too powerful!)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Formosa wrote:
If we're getting picky then none of them are rifles as neither pulse rifles or lasrifles have rifleing as they are energy weapons, and the boltgun is a cannon since it has explosive rounds.

Both rl and in universe people use the terms loosely, for example modern handguns are rifles too since they have rifling.

But to fluff!
The lasrifle is a lasgun, the lascannon is a lasweapon, but we're talking specifically small arms, the colimnator is a shot mode similar to rapid fire etc
seems to me that you are annoyed that you've been shown that your assertion that tau small arms are better than lasguns in tech based only on range and str, utterly ignoring my own posts and others, I try to be polite as much as possible but in this case I must say, your wrong.

If you would like a polite conversation on the subject I'm happy to do so, but your bad attempts to pick holes is very churlish and you make no effort to back up your statements


I'm sorry for being 'churlish' (whatever that is ). I don't really care if this continues as this discussion derailed the thread as how long ago was it that the Dreadknight was actually mentioned?
Tau tech is better but it isn't as easy to mass produce as they cannot exploit economies of scale to the same degree as the filthy IoM guys.


Back that statement up with some actual evidence, start a thread and lets see what proof you have of your statements, ill enjoy the debate



Keep in mind the Tau just seem more advanced compared to the factions they face most often (Astra Militarum and Astartes).

There are branches of the Adeptus Mechanicus and Inquisition that have technology that could probably rival what the Tau have created thus far. You wont see the more advanced technology of the Imperium at work because its too valuable to be wasted and is only brought out when the situation warrants it.

The Tau are also lacking in some areas. Most notably warp related technology.





The Tau haven't been around long enough to cover all areas but the areas that they do cover they generally do a better job of. E.g. standard issue guns and armour (obviously not as good as power armour), better use of skimmers (which are superior to land-based vehicles), better use of air support etc.

The Adeptus Mechanics isn't represented well though is it? Same as Tau having psychic allies yet they aren't represented.
The only superior Inquisition tech comes from other xenos... So that's cheating.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
NauticalKendall wrote:
SGTPozy wrote:


What MCs have IWND? I cannot think of a single one :L

.


Talos and Cronos Pain Engines of Dark Eldar get FnP base and.. turn 3 or 4 get IWND if taken in the Covens supplement.

I like that no one ever complaines about DE monstrous creatures

Nobody probably ever thinks of them


So two? That's not many... Are they commonly used in Dark Eldar armies?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The Imperial Answer wrote:
The Dreadknight and a lot of the mechanical or construct MCs seem to be weaker in someways than proper walkers.

Most notably they:

- don't have as many chances to be repaired if they get damaged.
- could possibly destroy themselves (Riptide or the Dreadknight warp-periling).
- have other odd rules attached to them (wraithknight only being able to fire two sets of weapons at once, and the riptide taking command checks for loosing drones).
- have fewer hull-points that similarly sized machines.
- aren't as heavily armed as some of their counter-parts (Orkanauts and Imperial Knights).


You're going to get loads if hate for saying that MCs aren't that cheesy

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/12/28 11:22:08


 
   
Made in gb
Proud Triarch Praetorian





SGTPozy wrote:
 IHateNids wrote:
a fair few have access to IWND in some form or another

C'tan Shards, Canoptek Spyders & Dreadknights spring to mind as the only ones that dont


What MCs have IWND? I cannot think of a single one that does

I never said they had it standard, just have access to it in some form or another.

All the Tyranid MCs can take it as an upgrade, the wraithknight can be given wounds back via psyker or that wraith stone thing, as mentioned the deldar ones have ur in turn 3 with the haemonculus coven book. I believe there's a piece of wargear in the enclaves book that gives the riptide iwnd as well

Experience is something you get just after you need it
The Narkos Dynasty - 15k
Iron Hands - 12k
The Shadewatch - 3k
Cadmus Outriders - 4k
Alpha Legion Raiders - 3k  
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




SGTPozy wrote:

The Imperial Answer wrote:
The Dreadknight and a lot of the mechanical or construct MCs seem to be weaker in someways than proper walkers.

Most notably they:

- don't have as many chances to be repaired if they get damaged.
- could possibly destroy themselves (Riptide or the Dreadknight warp-periling).
- have other odd rules attached to them (wraithknight only being able to fire two sets of weapons at once, and the riptide taking command checks for loosing drones).
- have fewer hull-points that similarly sized machines.
- aren't as heavily armed as some of their counter-parts (Orkanauts and Imperial Knights).


You're going to get loads if hate for saying that MCs aren't that cheesy


I didn't say they weren't cheese, Im saying they lack a lot of the advantages their walker counterparts have or weakness no walker would have.
   
Made in ca
Commander of the Mysterious 2nd Legion





 IHateNids wrote:
SGTPozy wrote:
 IHateNids wrote:
a fair few have access to IWND in some form or another

C'tan Shards, Canoptek Spyders & Dreadknights spring to mind as the only ones that dont


What MCs have IWND? I cannot think of a single one that does

I never said they had it standard, just have access to it in some form or another.

All the Tyranid MCs can take it as an upgrade, the wraithknight can be given wounds back via psyker or that wraith stone thing, as mentioned the deldar ones have ur in turn 3 with the haemonculus coven book. I believe there's a piece of wargear in the enclaves book that gives the riptide iwnd as well


the tyranid regneration ability IIRC is seldom seen due to it's cost

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in gb
Proud Triarch Praetorian





It's still there though. Much like the Riptide can get FNP. No-one I know uses it because it costs more than a suicide melta suit, but it can

Experience is something you get just after you need it
The Narkos Dynasty - 15k
Iron Hands - 12k
The Shadewatch - 3k
Cadmus Outriders - 4k
Alpha Legion Raiders - 3k  
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Springfield, VA

The Adeptus Mechanicus automata (which are way higher tech than Riptides by an order of magnitude) have access to IWND (and can get it automatically depending on warlord trait).

Also, they can be repaired by Tech-priests just like vehicles.
   
Made in ru
!!Goffik Rocker!!






 Mojo1jojo wrote:
The Imperial Answer wrote:
 Mojo1jojo wrote:
 TheCustomLime wrote:
The same reason Wraithknights and Riptides are: To sell more Citadel plastic kits with superior rules. The best thing that can ever happen to a big unit is to be rated as a MC.



Toughfness 8 Deffdread, yes please


Yes but if it was a MC it might not have Grot Riggers. The dread needs the riggers. Having the right grot at the right (or wrong depending on outlook) time can make all the difference.



Give me Toughness 8 with 4 wounds and a 3+ 5++ ill give up the grot riggers in an instant


I'd give up 12-12-10 3 hp to t7 3+ 3 wound any day. At least i'm sure the dread won't get stunned or immobilized somewhere in the middle of the board doing nothing as having done so, it's falling out of threat saturation. And threat saturation is everything for orkses. That's basically the reason you don't see an effective dread in a footslogging army. And we're not talking about explosions yet.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2014/12/29 05:35:32


 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




 koooaei wrote:
 Mojo1jojo wrote:
The Imperial Answer wrote:
 Mojo1jojo wrote:
 TheCustomLime wrote:
The same reason Wraithknights and Riptides are: To sell more Citadel plastic kits with superior rules. The best thing that can ever happen to a big unit is to be rated as a MC.



Toughfness 8 Deffdread, yes please


Yes but if it was a MC it might not have Grot Riggers. The dread needs the riggers. Having the right grot at the right (or wrong depending on outlook) time can make all the difference.



Give me Toughness 8 with 4 wounds and a 3+ 5++ ill give up the grot riggers in an instant


I'd give up 12-12-10 3 hp to t7 3+ 3 wound any day. At least i'm sure the dread won't get stunned or immobilized somewhere in the middle of the board doing nothing as having done so, it's falling out of threat saturation. And threat saturation is everything for orkses. That's basically the reason you don't see an effective dread in a footslogging army. And we're not talking about explosions yet.


Isn't ork stuff supposed to explode ? They seem to emphasize that a lot in the lore. Also the dread would be trading one weakness for another were it a MC.
   
Made in ca
Commander of the Mysterious 2nd Legion





MCs are particlarly vunerable to grav weapons, just for example

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in ru
!!Goffik Rocker!!






The Imperial Answer wrote:

Isn't ork stuff supposed to explode ? They seem to emphasize that a lot in the lore. Also the dread would be trading one weakness for another were it a MC.


I'd love my MC to explode.
And about trading weaknesses. Walkers have more. Grav weaponry? You need to deal all the 3 wounds to invalidate a MC. Or just one 6 to invalidate a walker. Not much different. It also means the opponent is 18' away. Which is what i want with orkses anyway. Or Grav cents / bikers are shooting a single MC and not a truck full of boyz or a BW.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2014/12/30 04:09:07


 
   
Made in ca
Commander of the Mysterious 2nd Legion





 koooaei wrote:
The Imperial Answer wrote:

Isn't ork stuff supposed to explode ? They seem to emphasize that a lot in the lore. Also the dread would be trading one weakness for another were it a MC.


I'd love my MC to explode.
And about trading weaknesses. Walkers have more. Grav weaponry? You need to deal all the 3 wounds to invalidate a MC. Or just one 6 to invalidate a walker. Not much different. It also means the opponent is 18' away. Which is what i want with orkses anyway. Or Grav cents / bikers are shooting a single MC and not a truck full of boyz or a BW.

maybe, thing is grav weapons are all salvo, a grav gun is gonna be firing 2-3 times, and a grav canon is gonna be firing 3-5 times. meanwhile almost all "vehicle crackers" tend to be much slower rates of fire. yet again not saying vehicles are great, but a space Marine tatical squad can be a serious threat to some of the badest MCs on the board

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in ru
!!Goffik Rocker!!






BrianDavion wrote:
 koooaei wrote:
The Imperial Answer wrote:

Isn't ork stuff supposed to explode ? They seem to emphasize that a lot in the lore. Also the dread would be trading one weakness for another were it a MC.


I'd love my MC to explode.
And about trading weaknesses. Walkers have more. Grav weaponry? You need to deal all the 3 wounds to invalidate a MC. Or just one 6 to invalidate a walker. Not much different. It also means the opponent is 18' away. Which is what i want with orkses anyway. Or Grav cents / bikers are shooting a single MC and not a truck full of boyz or a BW.

maybe, thing is grav weapons are all salvo, a grav gun is gonna be firing 2-3 times, and a grav canon is gonna be firing 3-5 times. meanwhile almost all "vehicle crackers" tend to be much slower rates of fire. yet again not saying vehicles are great, but a space Marine tatical squad can be a serious threat to some of the badest MCs on the board


The problem is that stuff that works against MC more often than not works vs vehicles. Except for psy shreik and force weapons but thoseare quite rare. While vehicles are more likely to get invalidated - damage table.

Just count those 5 tac marines against a t7 3 wound 3+ MC and a 12-12-10 walker.

Let's say, tac marines have 2 meltas (1 combi)
Melta vs MC:
2 meltas deal 0.9 wounds, 1 krak deals 0.07 wounds, 2 bolt shots deal 0.07 - if they choose to rapid fire, than 0.14 - that's around 1.1 wound to a mc. The MC is fully operational.

Melta vs Walker:
2 meltas out of melta range have around 44% to get at least one penetrate which will result in a 1/3 chance to explode, 1/6 to get immobilized and 1/6 to get stunned thus, more than 20% to get invalidated for a game or killed ~8% to get invalidated for a turn.
If they get inside melta range that's around 50% to get invalidated for a game or killed and ~15% for a turn.

If you tell me that a melta is exactly for tank killing thus got to be better vs tanks, take plasma.

Plasma vs MC:
1.33 wounds, adding in krak nades that's around 1.5 wounds

Plasma vs Walker:
4 plasma shots have 0.44% chance to cause at least one penetrate and additional 0.44% to cause a glance. This 0.44% chance to penetrate have additional 1/6 chance to explode, 1/6 to immobilize and 1/6 to stun resulting in ~10% to get invalidated for a game or killed and ~8% to get invalidated for a turn.

Walkers loose here to plasma once again. And mind you, Walker still looses it's HP and they're easier to kill in mellee with krak nades as they have no armor saves. MC also get MTC, Fear and they have no rear armor. The only thing vehicle somewhat wins against is grav. But once again - who needs an immobilised mellee walker, so i'd not call it an outright win. You just stay alive albeit immobilised, thus invalidated.

And the arguement about MC being killed by small arms fire...it takes so much small arms fire away from other targets that it's nowhere near a bad thing.
The rules themself make walkers inferior to MC. Now if they cost less...but nope. They cost around the same. And also, 3 wound MC with 3+ save are generally NOT considered strong with all the stuff MC get nowadays.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/12/30 10:09:47


 
   
Made in ca
Commander of the Mysterious 2nd Legion





sure but you're missing the point, which is that MCs DO have certin vunerabilities that Vees don't nesscarily have.

I'll gladly admit that small arms are mostly a wash, (sure lasguns vs a landraider are inffective but they're mostly ineffective against MOST MCs too due to MCs tending to have reasonably high toughness, just for example) but MCs do have some weaknesses and GW it seems has actually made an effort to bring these more to the fore. Grey Knights are particularly well equipped to deal with MCs, and the new toy in the space Marine codex was something almost custom crafted to kill MCs (in fact I'd be willing to bet the design conversation that created Grav weapons went a little along the lines of "so we wanna make each Marine codex stand out and have a nifty weapon no one else does. what can we do with vanillas?" "well.. the vanilla Marines are very ultramarine inspired, why not tyranid war veterns?" "not a bad idea, let's use it for a supplement, but they're a little too similer to sternguard veterns and are too ultramarine specific... although I like the idea of something that can allow ultramarines to kit for Tyranid killing... let's try to focus our ideas on some sort of balanced and fun response to tyranids"


basicly though aside from one or two problematic units, I think right now MCs vs walkers are in a not that bad place. it was really only in a cripplingly bad place in the past due to Smash. with that nerf I think it really is a matter if personal preferance.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/12/30 11:51:11


Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in ru
!!Goffik Rocker!!






BrianDavion wrote:

basicly though aside from one or two problematic units, I think right now MCs vs walkers are in a not that bad place. it was really only in a cripplingly bad place in the past due to Smash. with that nerf I think it really is a matter if personal preferance.


Yep. In fact, you're better off with a walker against GK. However, dedicated anti-mc that's more effective against MC rather than vehicles is super rare out of this codex and grav weaponry.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/12/30 11:58:32


 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




 koooaei wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:

basicly though aside from one or two problematic units, I think right now MCs vs walkers are in a not that bad place. it was really only in a cripplingly bad place in the past due to Smash. with that nerf I think it really is a matter if personal preferance.


Yep. In fact, you're better off with a walker against GK. However, dedicated anti-mc that's more effective against MC rather than vehicles is super rare out of this codex and grav weaponry.


What about poison ? The Dark Eldar codex has a lot of options for poison which can affect MCs.
   
Made in fr
Trazyn's Museum Curator





on the forum. Obviously

The Dreadknight is an exoskeleton, or a very big suit of power armor. That is why it is not a monstrous creature in the rules.

The vehicle rules could use some refining though. Giving them an armor save based on their sum of their Front, Side and Read armor values could work.

What I have
~4100
~1660

Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!

A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble

 
   
Made in ru
!!Goffik Rocker!!






The Imperial Answer wrote:
 koooaei wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:

basicly though aside from one or two problematic units, I think right now MCs vs walkers are in a not that bad place. it was really only in a cripplingly bad place in the past due to Smash. with that nerf I think it really is a matter if personal preferance.


Yep. In fact, you're better off with a walker against GK. However, dedicated anti-mc that's more effective against MC rather than vehicles is super rare out of this codex and grav weaponry.


What about poison ? The Dark Eldar codex has a lot of options for poison which can affect MCs.


They also have access to ranged haywire that does horrible things to vehicles no matter how tough Poison ain't that scary - at least you still have your saves. But yep, a tooled up DE can kill both MC and Walkers quite effectively.
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




 koooaei wrote:
The Imperial Answer wrote:
 koooaei wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:

basicly though aside from one or two problematic units, I think right now MCs vs walkers are in a not that bad place. it was really only in a cripplingly bad place in the past due to Smash. with that nerf I think it really is a matter if personal preferance.


Yep. In fact, you're better off with a walker against GK. However, dedicated anti-mc that's more effective against MC rather than vehicles is super rare out of this codex and grav weaponry.


What about poison ? The Dark Eldar codex has a lot of options for poison which can affect MCs.


They also have access to ranged haywire that does horrible things to vehicles no matter how tough Poison ain't that scary - at least you still have your saves. But yep, a tooled up DE can kill both MC and Walkers quite effectively.


Haywire also works on MCs as well as vehicals. You can't poison a vehicle no matter how hard you try.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/12/30 20:15:54


 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Springfield, VA

The Imperial Answer wrote:

Haywire also works on MCs as well as vehicals.


No it doesn't. Mechanicum MCs have a special rule that allow it to wound them on a 6. They are not normally affected by haywire.
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




 Unit1126PLL wrote:
The Imperial Answer wrote:

Haywire also works on MCs as well as vehicals.


No it doesn't. Mechanicum MCs have a special rule that allow it to wound them on a 6. They are not normally affected by haywire.


I'm not entirely familiar with the mechanicus faction's rules so that is useful to know.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/12/30 20:43:05


 
   
Made in gb
Proud Triarch Praetorian





I think he meant the fact haywire weapons can wound using their strength, whereas most poison is s-

Experience is something you get just after you need it
The Narkos Dynasty - 15k
Iron Hands - 12k
The Shadewatch - 3k
Cadmus Outriders - 4k
Alpha Legion Raiders - 3k  
   
 
Forum Index » 40K Background
Go to: