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Do people think Harlequins be viable as a stand alone force?

I haven't started a new army since they released Dark Eldar but I am very tempted to put together a small Harlie force.

Its really too early to tell. We need to wait and see what else they get.

Haha...sorry...just very interested in these guys.

 Wilson wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:

 Wilson wrote:

 Sinful Hero wrote:
I think the Solitaire is the best aesthetic-wise of the bunch IMHO. The others just seem too unnatural.

Totally agree. Lush models though- I must say that the rules seem kinda amazing/ wet though! WS9 I10 and 6-10 attacks is awesome but at strength 3? Lol

But he auto wounds on a 6 to hit at ap2. Plus he can grab a relic from the table we don't have yet.

So that's one wound at AP 2... Then the rest of the attacks? AP- at strength 3. I love the mobility but unless the solitaire has access to poison I doubt you'll see them in top table

*Sigh* Top table.... Your right but you rarely see much cool or variety at the "top" table anyway. At 145 points this guy is sick, he also appears to be non unique and an elite. I think these guys will make great maelstrom units, able to hide easily, speedy and can annihilate other msu units.

Did you expect him to go toe to toe and kill a CM or something? I mean, he can hold one off and bounce away now and hes WAY cheaper.

Also, again, notice he can take a relic from a table we don't have yet. Most un-upgraged character entries are far lamer then he.

 Red Corsair wrote:
*Sigh* Top table.... Your right but you rarely see much cool or variety at the "top" table anyway. At 145 points this guy is sick, he also appears to be non unique and an elite. I think these guys will make great maelstrom units, able to hide easily, speedy and can annihilate other msu units.

Did you expect him to go toe to toe and kill a CM or something? I mean, he can hold one off and bounce away now and hes WAY cheaper.

Also, again, notice he can take a relic from a table we don't have yet. Most un-upgraged character entries are far lamer then he.

All this. As a stand alone character, no he's probably not going to be an unstoppable killing machine regardless of wargear options. Wraith Lords and the Avatar proved single model units with moderate durability are not viable, and even Mantle only has a niche use.

Then again at 145 if he's not taking up an HQ slot, why not? With DS and the ability to hide out of LOS then pop in front of a unit, he's an amazing backfield disruption unit. Anything that can reliably take him down in combat wants to be on the opposite side of the table from him in your armies face. So can he take on a CM on a bike with shield eternal/TH? Probably not. Can he wipe grots/marines/warriors (necron/DE/Tau) off objectives? Absolutely. He's a big, bad, nasty bully who should be pounding the little kids and taking their lunch money.

By far the greatest thing he's going to add to your army is forcing your opponent to deal with him, and they will need to deal with him. If they don't, they risk losing several objective holding units which could potentially cost them the game.

 Red Corsair wrote:

 Wilson wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:

 Wilson wrote:

 Sinful Hero wrote:
I think the Solitaire is the best aesthetic-wise of the bunch IMHO. The others just seem too unnatural.

Totally agree. Lush models though- I must say that the rules seem kinda amazing/ wet though! WS9 I10 and 6-10 attacks is awesome but at strength 3? Lol

But he auto wounds on a 6 to hit at ap2. Plus he can grab a relic from the table we don't have yet.

So that's one wound at AP 2... Then the rest of the attacks? AP- at strength 3. I love the mobility but unless the solitaire has access to poison I doubt you'll see them in top table

*Sigh* Top table.... Your right but you rarely see much cool or variety at the "top" table anyway. At 145 points this guy is sick, he also appears to be non unique and an elite. I think these guys will make great maelstrom units, able to hide easily, speedy and can annihilate other msu units.

Did you expect him to go toe to toe and kill a CM or something? I mean, he can hold one off and bounce away now and hes WAY cheaper.

Also, again, notice he can take a relic from a table we don't have yet. Most un-upgraged character entries are far lamer then he.

I've seen a fair bit of variety on top tables actually but anyway, that's besides the point

Not saying the solitaire is bad and no I don't expect him to go toe to toe with a chapter master( although I think hed do pretty well 1v1) , I was getting more at the fact that he'd struggle to cut down a unit of 10 marines - if he faced them. Strength 4 ( my bad, missed that bit) with a -(?) is not as amazing.


I like the idea of having a few of these dudes running around and grabbing objectives though and for sure you'd have to deal with them. I like the rules and the model is lush but a few people where screaming broken!!! (Like they noramally do ) so I just felt like having my say.

Dang I just noticed that the Troupe Master has 2 wounds

 Dash2021 wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:
*Sigh* Top table.... Your right but you rarely see much cool or variety at the "top" table anyway. At 145 points this guy is sick, he also appears to be non unique and an elite. I think these guys will make great maelstrom units, able to hide easily, speedy and can annihilate other msu units.

Did you expect him to go toe to toe and kill a CM or something? I mean, he can hold one off and bounce away now and hes WAY cheaper.

Also, again, notice he can take a relic from a table we don't have yet. Most un-upgraged character entries are far lamer then he.

All this. As a stand alone character, no he's probably not going to be an unstoppable killing machine regardless of wargear options. Wraith Lords and the Avatar proved single model units with moderate durability are not viable, and even Mantle only has a niche use.

Then again at 145 if he's not taking up an HQ slot, why not? With DS and the ability to hide out of LOS then pop in front of a unit, he's an amazing backfield disruption unit. Anything that can reliably take him down in combat wants to be on the opposite side of the table from him in your armies face. So can he take on a CM on a bike with shield eternal/TH? Probably not. Can he wipe grots/marines/warriors (necron/DE/Tau) off objectives? Absolutely. He's a big, bad, nasty bully who should be pounding the little kids and taking their lunch money.

By far the greatest thing he's going to add to your army is forcing your opponent to deal with him, and they will need to deal with him. If they don't, they risk losing several objective holding units which could potentially cost them the game.

To be fair, I always envisaged (thanks to the background) that a Solitaire was a greater fighter than any other Harlequin; High Avatar included. I saw it as part of the cause for the reverence, and fear, that the other Eldar maintained (and the fact that he is blessed by the Laughing God). I've also considered that a Harlequin Trooper is better than a combat Exarch, and that a combat Exarch is probably only slightly below a Space Marine in terms of their ability with a blade.

As such, I'm a bit disappointed by the Solitaire's combat prowess. A Solitaire should be up there with a Phoenix Lord, who themselves should probably be more capable than a Chapter Master.

 Red Corsair wrote:

 Wilson wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:

 Wilson wrote:

 Sinful Hero wrote:
I think the Solitaire is the best aesthetic-wise of the bunch IMHO. The others just seem too unnatural.

Totally agree. Lush models though- I must say that the rules seem kinda amazing/ wet though! WS9 I10 and 6-10 attacks is awesome but at strength 3? Lol

But he auto wounds on a 6 to hit at ap2. Plus he can grab a relic from the table we don't have yet.

So that's one wound at AP 2... Then the rest of the attacks? AP- at strength 3. I love the mobility but unless the solitaire has access to poison I doubt you'll see them in top table

*Sigh* Top table.... Your right but you rarely see much cool or variety at the "top" table anyway. At 145 points this guy is sick, he also appears to be non unique and an elite. I think these guys will make great maelstrom units, able to hide easily, speedy and can annihilate other msu units.

Did you expect him to go toe to toe and kill a CM or something? I mean, he can hold one off and bounce away now and hes WAY cheaper.

Also, again, notice he can take a relic from a table we don't have yet. Most un-upgraged character entries are far lamer then he.

Well I figure this guy will make up his points so long as he has his charge. With that blitz he'll have 10 base attacks, 1 for the off hand, and one for the charge. 12 attacks, the caress giving him auto ap 2 wounds (or auto glance) on sixes to hit then adding one of those attacks is str 6 ap 2 because of the kiss. If he's on the charge he's str 4 so wounding meq on 4s, he's WS 9 so he's hitting on 3s and only being hit by average marines on 5s. Even without blitz when he's charging he has a 12 inch move, with a fleet charge and just 8 attacks (6 base, off hand, and charge).

On the recieving end against something like a 10 man tac squad she'll fair well. She strikes first with 7 attacks, 1 is automatically S6 and AP2, then odds showing at least one six to hit there, meaning we can start with 2 dead marines (likely the sgt due to challenges) then leaving his reamaining attacks dealing 1-2 wounds with either or both being saved, 8 marines retaliating on the charge, swinging with 16 attacks total, giving 5 or so hits, with 3 or 4 wounds, solitaire with a 3++ has a good chance of ignoring some or all. All in all thats probably 1-3 turns of tying up an entire squad that probably cost more than 145 pts and doing some damage every turn.

That's assuming the Tac Squad haven't RF-ed it to death first!

 Azreal13 wrote:
That's assuming the Tac Squad haven't RF-ed it to death first!

Yea but with a 12" move ignoring terrain, if you let them RP it you deserve to lose it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Wilson wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:

 Wilson wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:

 Wilson wrote:

 Sinful Hero wrote:
I think the Solitaire is the best aesthetic-wise of the bunch IMHO. The others just seem too unnatural.

Totally agree. Lush models though- I must say that the rules seem kinda amazing/ wet though! WS9 I10 and 6-10 attacks is awesome but at strength 3? Lol

But he auto wounds on a 6 to hit at ap2. Plus he can grab a relic from the table we don't have yet.

So that's one wound at AP 2... Then the rest of the attacks? AP- at strength 3. I love the mobility but unless the solitaire has access to poison I doubt you'll see them in top table

*Sigh* Top table.... Your right but you rarely see much cool or variety at the "top" table anyway. At 145 points this guy is sick, he also appears to be non unique and an elite. I think these guys will make great maelstrom units, able to hide easily, speedy and can annihilate other msu units.

Did you expect him to go toe to toe and kill a CM or something? I mean, he can hold one off and bounce away now and hes WAY cheaper.

Also, again, notice he can take a relic from a table we don't have yet. Most un-upgraged character entries are far lamer then he.

I've seen a fair bit of variety on top tables actually but anyway, that's besides the point

Not saying the solitaire is bad and no I don't expect him to go toe to toe with a chapter master( although I think hed do pretty well 1v1) , I was getting more at the fact that he'd struggle to cut down a unit of 10 marines - if he faced them. Strength 4 ( my bad, missed that bit) with a -(?) is not as amazing.


I like the idea of having a few of these dudes running around and grabbing objectives though and for sure you'd have to deal with them. I like the rules and the model is lush but a few people where screaming broken!!! (Like they noramally do ) so I just felt like having my say.

Wasn't trying to sound like a jerk mate, I know where your coming from but it's just easy for people to expect things to contribute in literally every aspect of the game nowadays. It's not their fault either with some of the crazy units that get produced either, but you have to look at the cost and roll and in the context of a disruption unit, the solitaire is very strong. I also expect him to be able to field some low AP gear from the artifact list we haven't seen yet as well.

1o tac marines cost the same though before any upggrades lol. Plus he can precision strike the specialists and hit and run on their turn, gutting the unit and moving on, not bad.

The dedicated transport called Starweaver sounds interesting - can not wait to see its stats.

 Lurker wrote:

 Dash2021 wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:
*Sigh* Top table.... Your right but you rarely see much cool or variety at the "top" table anyway. At 145 points this guy is sick, he also appears to be non unique and an elite. I think these guys will make great maelstrom units, able to hide easily, speedy and can annihilate other msu units.

Did you expect him to go toe to toe and kill a CM or something? I mean, he can hold one off and bounce away now and hes WAY cheaper.

Also, again, notice he can take a relic from a table we don't have yet. Most un-upgraged character entries are far lamer then he.

All this. As a stand alone character, no he's probably not going to be an unstoppable killing machine regardless of wargear options. Wraith Lords and the Avatar proved single model units with moderate durability are not viable, and even Mantle only has a niche use.

Then again at 145 if he's not taking up an HQ slot, why not? With DS and the ability to hide out of LOS then pop in front of a unit, he's an amazing backfield disruption unit. Anything that can reliably take him down in combat wants to be on the opposite side of the table from him in your armies face. So can he take on a CM on a bike with shield eternal/TH? Probably not. Can he wipe grots/marines/warriors (necron/DE/Tau) off objectives? Absolutely. He's a big, bad, nasty bully who should be pounding the little kids and taking their lunch money.

By far the greatest thing he's going to add to your army is forcing your opponent to deal with him, and they will need to deal with him. If they don't, they risk losing several objective holding units which could potentially cost them the game.

To be fair, I always envisaged (thanks to the background) that a Solitaire was a greater fighter than any other Harlequin; High Avatar included. I saw it as part of the cause for the reverence, and fear, that the other Eldar maintained (and the fact that he is blessed by the Laughing God). I've also considered that a Harlequin Trooper is better than a combat Exarch, and that a combat Exarch is probably only slightly below a Space Marine in terms of their ability with a blade.

As such, I'm a bit disappointed by the Solitaire's combat prowess. A Solitaire should be up there with a Phoenix Lord, who themselves should probably be more capable than a Chapter Master.

First, we still don't know about wargear, so there's that. If there's any moderately good defensive upgrades, this guy could very well become a staple.

Second, these are devotees of the laughing god. PL's and CM's are all well and good in a cinematic fight, but harlequins aren't in the least bit concerned with fair fights. It's their speed and ability that carry the day, not strength and durability. Getting locked down in a duel, trading blows is going to be a loss given their style. They want to be darting in and out of combat, their main defense being never getting hit in the first place. So, for me he seems pretty well in line with fluff. I would like to have seen more durability on him given that he has no way of hiding in a squad (and shouldn't), but he does fill the role of glass cannon well as is.

Third, and a bit OT, I'd disagree with your assessments on combat prowess. Exarch ~ Srg. Aspect warrior ~ Marine. Obviously table top and fluff differ, and that's w/out getting into the mastery of one area for the Eldar vs. being generalists as the Marines are. But between weaponry, training and agility an aspect warrior should be ~ equal or only slightly inferior to a marine. Back OT: while the Solitaire has always been a champ, the Eldar (Harlies/CWE/DE) avoid him because of his ties to Slannesh. While I'm sure he gets some respect from ability, most of it is the Eldar being superstitious about the fact that he/she's promised to Slannesh and has a pretty good chance of getting their soul eaten.

Blitz is amazing for an end-of-game objective grab across the table, or scoring line breaker.

 Dash2021 wrote:

 Lurker wrote:

 Dash2021 wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:
*Sigh* Top table.... Your right but you rarely see much cool or variety at the "top" table anyway. At 145 points this guy is sick, he also appears to be non unique and an elite. I think these guys will make great maelstrom units, able to hide easily, speedy and can annihilate other msu units.

Did you expect him to go toe to toe and kill a CM or something? I mean, he can hold one off and bounce away now and hes WAY cheaper.

Also, again, notice he can take a relic from a table we don't have yet. Most un-upgraged character entries are far lamer then he.

All this. As a stand alone character, no he's probably not going to be an unstoppable killing machine regardless of wargear options. Wraith Lords and the Avatar proved single model units with moderate durability are not viable, and even Mantle only has a niche use.

Then again at 145 if he's not taking up an HQ slot, why not? With DS and the ability to hide out of LOS then pop in front of a unit, he's an amazing backfield disruption unit. Anything that can reliably take him down in combat wants to be on the opposite side of the table from him in your armies face. So can he take on a CM on a bike with shield eternal/TH? Probably not. Can he wipe grots/marines/warriors (necron/DE/Tau) off objectives? Absolutely. He's a big, bad, nasty bully who should be pounding the little kids and taking their lunch money.

By far the greatest thing he's going to add to your army is forcing your opponent to deal with him, and they will need to deal with him. If they don't, they risk losing several objective holding units which could potentially cost them the game.

To be fair, I always envisaged (thanks to the background) that a Solitaire was a greater fighter than any other Harlequin; High Avatar included. I saw it as part of the cause for the reverence, and fear, that the other Eldar maintained (and the fact that he is blessed by the Laughing God). I've also considered that a Harlequin Trooper is better than a combat Exarch, and that a combat Exarch is probably only slightly below a Space Marine in terms of their ability with a blade.

As such, I'm a bit disappointed by the Solitaire's combat prowess. A Solitaire should be up there with a Phoenix Lord, who themselves should probably be more capable than a Chapter Master.

First, we still don't know about wargear, so there's that. If there's any moderately good defensive upgrades, this guy could very well become a staple.

Second, these are devotees of the laughing god. PL's and CM's are all well and good in a cinematic fight, but harlequins aren't in the least bit concerned with fair fights. It's their speed and ability that carry the day, not strength and durability. Getting locked down in a duel, trading blows is going to be a loss given their style. They want to be darting in and out of combat, their main defense being never getting hit in the first place. So, for me he seems pretty well in line with fluff. I would like to have seen more durability on him given that he has no way of hiding in a squad (and shouldn't), but he does fill the role of glass cannon well as is.

Third, and a bit OT, I'd disagree with your assessments on combat prowess. Exarch ~ Srg. Aspect warrior ~ Marine. Obviously table top and fluff differ, and that's w/out getting into the mastery of one area for the Eldar vs. being generalists as the Marines are. But between weaponry, training and agility an aspect warrior should be ~ equal or only slightly inferior to a marine. Back OT: while the Solitaire has always been a champ, the Eldar (Harlies/CWE/DE) avoid him because of his ties to Slannesh. While I'm sure he gets some respect from ability, most of it is the Eldar being superstitious about the fact that he/she's promised to Slannesh and has a pretty good chance of getting their soul eaten.

Hmm, nice thoughts on the fighting style; I still contend that a Solitaire 'Getting locked down in a duel' is within the parameters of it's battlefield role in the background. His/her aptitude and arrogance would lead them to seek out the opposing skilled fighters amongst the opposition. Not so much martial honour, but rather an almost suicidal self belief. You would have to be (suicidal) to not be wearing a Spirit Stone.

Indeed, I subtly referenced the fear the Eldar possess for him regarding his embodiment of Slannesh. However, he's favoured by the Laughing God, who is willing to duel with Slaanesh for his soul. He's must to be amazing in combat, even amongst Harlequins, for him to earn that kind of favour.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

rollawaythestone wrote:
Blitz is amazing for an end-of-game objective grab across the table, or scoring line breaker.

Why? A Solitaire can always move 12". Thanks to the flip belt, he essentially has a jump pack (correct? Used to be the case).
The Blitz move is instead movement. So he is likely to move less that 12"...

Unless I'm missing something...

D6 times turn is 6-36" on turn 6. That's mostly better than 12".

 carabine wrote:
Well I figure this guy will make up his points so long as he has his charge. With that blitz he'll have 10 base attacks, 1 for the off hand, and one for the charge. 12 attacks, the caress giving him auto ap 2 wounds (or auto glance) on sixes to hit then adding one of those attacks is str 6 ap 2 because of the kiss. If he's on the charge he's str 4 so wounding meq on 4s, he's WS 9 so he's hitting on 3s and only being hit by average marines on 5s. Even without blitz when he's charging he has a 12 inch move, with a fleet charge and just 8 attacks (6 base, off hand, and charge).

On the recieving end against something like a 10 man tac squad she'll fair well. She strikes first with 7 attacks, 1 is automatically S6 and AP2, then odds showing at least one six to hit there, meaning we can start with 2 dead marines (likely the sgt due to challenges) then leaving his reamaining attacks dealing 1-2 wounds with either or both being saved, 8 marines retaliating on the charge, swinging with 16 attacks total, giving 5 or so hits, with 3 or 4 wounds, solitaire with a 3++ has a good chance of ignoring some or all. All in all thats probably 1-3 turns of tying up an entire squad that probably cost more than 145 pts and doing some damage every turn.

Regarding the Kiss: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/633275.page#7545455

 pretre wrote:
D6 times turn is 6-36" on turn 6. That's mostly better than 12".

Someone else can do the math, but realistically you'll only get around 18" on average.

 pretre wrote:
D6 times turn is 6-36" on turn 6. That's mostly better than 12".

Oh! I read it as roll a D6 and add it to the game turn. (E.G. Turn 3, roll a 5 = 8")

Thanks for the clarification!

 Ghaz wrote:

 pretre wrote:
D6 times turn is 6-36" on turn 6. That's mostly better than 12".

Someone else can do the math, but realistically you'll only get around 18" on average.

21" average.

Average D6 is 3.5.

Blitz onto an objective guarded by an enemy MSU unit and assault it to death late game. That seems like quite an effective strategy to me. Keep the Solitaire hidden and cagey until it makes it's late game play for points.

While not as fast as Eldar Jetbikes, the Solitaire actually does a way better job of shifting units off objectives as part of its objective grab.

"ON PAPER"... The solitare looks like a BEAST!

 pretre wrote:

 Ghaz wrote:

 pretre wrote:
D6 times turn is 6-36" on turn 6. That's mostly better than 12".

Someone else can do the math, but realistically you'll only get around 18" on average.

21" average.

Average D6 is 3.5.

On turn 5 you only have a 6% chance of rolling lower than your 12 inch movement.
On turn 6 you only have a 1% chance of rolling lower than your 12 inch movement.

It's absolutely made for those last-minute late game plays at objectives or final game winning assaults.

rollawaythestone wrote:

 pretre wrote:

 Ghaz wrote:

 pretre wrote:
D6 times turn is 6-36" on turn 6. That's mostly better than 12".

Someone else can do the math, but realistically you'll only get around 18" on average.

21" average.

Average D6 is 3.5.

On turn 5 you only have a 6% chance of rolling lower than your 12 inch movement.
On turn 6 you only have a 1% chance of rolling lower than your 12 inch movement.

It's absolutely made for those last-minute late game plays at objectives or final game winning assaults.

Or for those of us who just want to recreate Quicksilver's scene in Days of Future Past but with 100% more space elf! Seriously, though, it's a pretty damn cool and useful ability.

 Red Corsair wrote:
...he also appears to be non unique and an elite...

The Solitaire is an Elite, but he is unique unforunately :(

Does Caress of Death cause the 6-to-hit to be discarded, or does it cause a wound in addition to the "to wound" roll that comes afterwards?

Bojazz wrote:
Does Caress of Death cause the 6-to-hit to be discarded, or does it cause a wound in addition to the "to wound" roll that comes afterwards?

Basically, that hit is a wound, without a need to roll. You still roll to wound for the rest of the attacks that hit, but no funky double wounding from one hit.

Ah okay, got it. The wording was pretty unclear on that one. Welcome to the forums, by the way!

Good old GW, using words and phrases that they happily fail to define anywhere.

And thanks! Loooooong time lurker, first time poster.

If they give them enough to be played as a solid stand alone force I'll be very interested.