Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
2015/01/14 00:16:27
Subject: Chaos Space Marine Rumors bye bye Cult Marines
Nightlord1987 wrote: Saying Chaos legions couldn't exist is equal to loyalists having only Ultramarine successors, and a handful of shady Dark Angels left.
The fraction of Chaos Marines that remain adherent to their Legion is relatively small compared to Renegades and the non-adherent former legionaries. Distinguishing Legions and supporting them is important but I think given the proportion of chaos marines it's slightly more important they get Renegade marines right. The current codex only really represents the former legionnaires that want nothing to do with their legion and the renegades who might associate closest to them. It provides no avenue for representing legions or the majority of renegades. It's a shame GW has chosen the least characterful chaos marines to represent and a bigger shame that they think they're representing everything.
2015/01/14 00:19:41
Subject: Chaos Space Marine Rumors bye bye Cult Marines
Azreal13 wrote: So you're suggesting anyone who wants to play fallen Legions in 40K invest in another £70 book on top of all the pre-requisites needed already, in the hope that every game they play is against someone reasonable enough to allow them to run what is, ostensibly, a list for a different game?
Do you work for GW?
If they don't already have the earlier CSM Codices to play from, yes. Yes, they should pay full FW MSRP to get what they want in all its glory.
I see the GW Hobby as an expensive luxury not at all unlike golf. If you can't afford it, don't play.
There exists not one but two supplements devoted to Space Marine forces of 100 men.
As such an integral part of the universe Chaos deserves much better.
BlaxicanX wrote: A young business man named Tom Kirby, who was a pupil of mine until he turned greedy, helped the capitalists hunt down and destroy the wargamers. He betrayed and murdered Games Workshop.
2015/01/14 00:46:13
Subject: Chaos Space Marine Rumors bye bye Cult Marines
Azreal13 wrote: So you're suggesting anyone who wants to play fallen Legions in 40K invest in another £70 book on top of all the pre-requisites needed already, in the hope that every game they play is against someone reasonable enough to allow them to run what is, ostensibly, a list for a different game?
Do you work for GW?
If they don't already have the earlier CSM Codices to play from, yes. Yes, they should pay full FW MSRP to get what they want in all its glory.
I see the GW Hobby as an expensive luxury not at all unlike golf. If you can't afford it, don't play.
Actually, don't work for GW, they need as many customers like you as they can get.
We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
Go re-read my sig. I already own what is likely to be a lifetime worth of GW product. Until I clear the my Closet of Shame backlog (and I'm working on it!), GW won't get another penny out of me, no matter how good their models are.
In the mean time, I need GW to soak the fething gak out of guys like you so that they can stay in business while I whittle away at my to-do pile.
Tho, if they do go belly up, it's not like I don't have several GW rulebooks and Codices to choose from.
I'm interested in what a "guy like me is?" Or are you just trying to get a rise?
We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
Fine, I'll make the point very simply - I currently own roughly 25,000 points of 40k Eldar, Guard, SM/CSMs and other Imperials. As above, I think that's plenty enough playable stuff for the indefinite foreseeable future.
I think a "guy like you" is someone who is still currently buying things, rather than sitting on a pile of stuff that they have already bought. I also think that a "guy like you" is someone who would do well to get a thicker skin.
____
edit - I recounted - it could be closer to 30,000 pts. Oops.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/01/14 01:58:27
Azreal13 wrote: So you're suggesting anyone who wants to play fallen Legions in 40K invest in another £70 book on top of all the pre-requisites needed already, in the hope that every game they play is against someone reasonable enough to allow them to run what is, ostensibly, a list for a different game?
Do you work for GW?
If they don't already have the earlier CSM Codices to play from, yes. Yes, they should pay full FW MSRP to get what they want in all its glory.
I see the GW Hobby as an expensive luxury not at all unlike golf. If you can't afford it, don't play.
Golf is cheaper then 40k.
“There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance.”
2015/01/14 01:56:42
Subject: Chaos Space Marine Rumors bye bye Cult Marines
Azreal13 wrote: So you're suggesting anyone who wants to play fallen Legions in 40K invest in another £70 book on top of all the pre-requisites needed already, in the hope that every game they play is against someone reasonable enough to allow them to run what is, ostensibly, a list for a different game?
Do you work for GW?
If they don't already have the earlier CSM Codices to play from, yes. Yes, they should pay full FW MSRP to get what they want in all its glory.
I see the GW Hobby as an expensive luxury not at all unlike golf. If you can't afford it, don't play.
Golf is cheaper then 40k.
Having dabbled in golf, I think that to be a highly-debatable point. 40k doesn't cost money to practice. I don't buy a bucket of one-use dice when I want to play, or pay a greens fee when I sit down to play with my friends. Even considering my share of beer and snacks, it's invariably less than a short round of 9 holes. OTOH, golf does have the advantage of only buying one set of clubs at a time. It's not like I bought multiple sets of clubs to use, depending on who I was playing with.
I do think it's easier to play 40k if you're not rich, even if you're limited to the starter set armies since 4E (SM, DA, BA, Orks, Nids, CSM).
Azreal13 wrote: So you're suggesting anyone who wants to play fallen Legions in 40K invest in another £70 book on top of all the pre-requisites needed already, in the hope that every game they play is against someone reasonable enough to allow them to run what is, ostensibly, a list for a different game?
Do you work for GW?
If they don't already have the earlier CSM Codices to play from, yes. Yes, they should pay full FW MSRP to get what they want in all its glory.
I see the GW Hobby as an expensive luxury not at all unlike golf. If you can't afford it, don't play.
Golf doesn't need FAQs or constant new purchases. Hell, my collection could probably fund my golf stuff.
JohnHwangDD wrote: Fine, I'll make the point very simply - I currently own roughly 25,000 points of 40k Eldar, Guard, SM/CSMs and other Imperials. As above, I think that's plenty enough playable stuff for the indefinite foreseeable future.
I think a "guy like you" is someone who is still currently buying things, rather than sitting on a pile of stuff that they have already bought. I also think that a "guy like you" is someone who would do well to get a thicker skin.
____
edit - I recounted - it could be closer to 30,000 pts. Oops.
Yeah, well, I have bigger man parts, my dad could beat your dad in a fight, my car is faster than yours (and more manly.)
Additionally, "this" guy seldom buys anything from GW, and hasn't in some time, because "this" guy does have an immensely masculine pile of miniatures to work through (plenty of which bear not the Citadel or GW stamp of overpriced mediocrity) tries to support third party wherever possible and has interests in games that lie outside of GW. "This" guy has been involved with the Warhammer universe since RT, so would appreciate it if you'd stop talking to him like some sort of noob (and acting as if that gives you either any sort of meaningful seniority or superiority.)
Additionally "this" guy would like to suggest that "that" guy doesn't interpret gentle, harmless ribbing as some sort of oversensitivity, and instead looks to himself first when throwing around accusations of thin skin.
EDIT
Did I mention the bit about a bigger penis? Ah yes, I did!
#amidoingthisright?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/01/14 02:39:49
We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
No, there's just no word for the level I've reached.
At least not that you'd understand.
Automatically Appended Next Post: But, seriously, while I enjoy pricking pomposity wherever it appears, can I make a sincere plea to re-focus on topic?
I like CSM, and at least we're still in the Schrödinger's Codex stage where the next update is good.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/01/14 02:47:42
We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
Ah, right, the topic. I want the new CSM codex to be like the old one, only better. More specifically by rectifying perceived deficits in the codex, and, ahh... by altering unit entries to better reflect their costs and you know, to be grimmer and more chaos-y. Yes, chaos-y is a term. These are the things I wish for. And I can most certainly assure you I know precisely what I am talking about and am not clueless on this topic, scouts honour.
The contents of this document are protected by the Official Secrets Act of 2550
Before we get back on track, I need to post this for the dick waving contest.
Wot dah feth 'id you just fething sayz 'bout me, 'ou little grot? I’ll 'ave you roight know I gradujated top of dah Klan in the WHAAAGH! Deff Skulls, 'n I’ve 'in involed 'n lotz sekret WHAAGHS! on dah 'Umies, 'n I 'ave oer' tree hundred gits on mah pole. I kopeed beakie warfare 'n I’m dah top krumper n' dah entire Klan. Youz ar nuttin to me but just 'nother git dat needz krumpin'. I'll stomp you dah gak out 'ith strength dah 'ikes o which ad nevah 'een seen before on dah Gorkin' planet, mark my fething words. You think you can get away with saying that gak to me over the Internet? Think again, fether. As we speak I am contacting my secret network of spies across the USA and your IP is being traced right now so you better prepare for dah storm, yeh stupid 'umie grit. Dah krumpin' and shootin' storm dat wipes out dah pathetik 'ittle ting you call yer yerself. Yer Morkin dead, git, I kan be anywere, anytime (kuz I'm sneeky like dat), 'n I can krump or shoot yah n 'oer seven 'undred wayz, and dats just 'ith mah bear hands. Not on' am I ektsenseevely trained in choppa-less krumpin', but I 'ave akess to dah entire gear of dah WHAAAAAGH!, 'n I'll yuse it to dah full ektent tah krump yer stoopid teef off dah face of dah land, yeh 'ittle squig. If onlee yeh kud 'ave known wut unorky krumpin yer ittle “klever” coment wuz 'bout tah bring down 'pon yeh, yuh wud 'ave held yer Morkin grot tongue. But ye kudn't, yu didn’t, 'n now yer paying dah price, 'ou squig-herdin idiot. I'll shed spores 'o fury all oer' you 'n you'll drown in et. Yer roight n bloody dead, yeh git.
It was my best job at a translation.
“There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance.”
2015/01/14 06:08:44
Subject: Chaos Space Marine Rumors bye bye Cult Marines
Azreal13 wrote: So you're suggesting anyone who wants to play fallen Legions in 40K invest in another £70 book on top of all the pre-requisites needed already, in the hope that every game they play is against someone reasonable enough to allow them to run what is, ostensibly, a list for a different game?
Do you work for GW?
If they don't already have the earlier CSM Codices to play from, yes. Yes, they should pay full FW MSRP to get what they want in all its glory.
I see the GW Hobby as an expensive luxury not at all unlike golf. If you can't afford it, don't play.
Yeah except you can't download golf clubs. I don't have a whole lot of money to spend on it and I still avidly play 40K. Deal with it.
"Backfield? I have no backfield."
2015/01/14 06:41:17
Subject: Chaos Space Marine Rumors bye bye Cult Marines
Azreal13 wrote: So you're suggesting anyone who wants to play fallen Legions in 40K invest in another £70 book on top of all the pre-requisites needed already, in the hope that every game they play is against someone reasonable enough to allow them to run what is, ostensibly, a list for a different game?
Do you work for GW?
If they don't already have the earlier CSM Codices to play from, yes. Yes, they should pay full FW MSRP to get what they want in all its glory.
I see the GW Hobby as an expensive luxury not at all unlike golf. If you can't afford it, don't play.
Yeah except you can't download golf clubs. I don't have a whole lot of money to spend on it and I still avidly play 40K. Deal with it.
No, but I can think of several things to do with golf clubs I can't with 40k models (well, except maybe the metal LRs or the metal GUOs)
Nightlord1987 wrote: Saying Chaos legions couldn't exist is equal to loyalists having only Ultramarine successors, and a handful of shady Dark Angels left.
As far as the Imperium is concerned, all SMs are basically the same. That's why the Inquisition checks up on them to ensure conformity with the Codex, in all ways. That's what all of the Successors signed on for at the time of the Second Founding, and the Inquisition should expect them all to keep their word, with Exterminatus being the accepted and understood penalty for any significant variance.
Given that 30k appears to have the Legions well in hand, why shouldn't 40k be as you suggest, with an Ultras model for all SMs, and minimal, marginal variance for DAs or BAs or SWs?
30k lets GW have it both ways for those who want high-chrome Legions and those who want streamlined post-Legion Marines.
And besides, what SM player wouldn't be proud to pay GW an extra $50 to get their dataslate of defining Special Characters backed by 2 pages of Chapter rules?
The Codex was drawn up by Roboat not the Inquisition and I am quite sure The Sons Of Russ have not been using it from the beginning So Exterminatus is not a penalty for that particular infraction just Genetic abnormalities. wait...
Logan's Great Company Oh yeah kickin' and not even bothering to take names. 2nd company 3rd company ravenguard House Navaros Forge world Lucious & Titan legion void runners 314th pie guard warboss 'ed krunchas waaaaaargh This thred needs more cow bell. Raised to acolyte of the children of the church of turtle pie by chaplain shrike 3/06/09 Help stop thread necro do not post in a thread more than a month old. "Dakkanaut" not "Dakkaite" Join the Church of the Children of Turtle Pie To become a member pm me or another member of the Church
2015/01/15 04:27:07
Subject: Chaos Space Marine Rumors bye bye Cult Marines
I'm taking these rumours with a lot of salt. A lot of salt.
Since, you know, the whole Cult Marine thing has been a thing since 2nd edition.
I mean, I'm all for the codex getting looked at and brought up to 7th ed. standards but this...ugh.
I really hope they don't go down the WD Exclusive Cult line....because that would be a terrible and sloppy idea. Not everyone wants to buy WD to field an army and what happens if you decide you want to go for that army 7-8 months down the line?
They've been really strange so far. First they do the 'decent' thing and put the new/revised Tyranid stuff up for free....
Then they go back to scumbag Steve WD exclusive Blood Angel formations....
But to take away what has been part of an army's core identity for 20+ years? Ew. No. No thank you. It's like them announcing there will no longer be Deathwing or Ravenwing in the Dark Angel codex or that there will no longer be Aspect Warriors in the Eldar codex.
Now only a CSM player.
2015/01/15 04:47:04
Subject: Chaos Space Marine Rumors bye bye Cult Marines
Nightlord1987 wrote: Saying Chaos legions couldn't exist is equal to loyalists having only Ultramarine successors, and a handful of shady Dark Angels left.
As far as the Imperium is concerned, all SMs are basically the same. That's why the Inquisition checks up on them to ensure conformity with the Codex, in all ways. That's what all of the Successors signed on for at the time of the Second Founding, and the Inquisition should expect them all to keep their word, with Exterminatus being the accepted and understood penalty for any significant variance.
Given that 30k appears to have the Legions well in hand, why shouldn't 40k be as you suggest, with an Ultras model for all SMs, and minimal, marginal variance for DAs or BAs or SWs?
30k lets GW have it both ways for those who want high-chrome Legions and those who want streamlined post-Legion Marines.
And besides, what SM player wouldn't be proud to pay GW an extra $50 to get their dataslate of defining Special Characters backed by 2 pages of Chapter rules?
The Codex was drawn up by Roboat not the Inquisition and I am quite sure The Sons Of Russ have not been using it from the beginning So Exterminatus is not a penalty for that particular infraction just Genetic abnormalities. wait...
Roboute drew up the Codex, but the Inquisition enforces it on those Chapters that don't have very strong support in the shadows to allow variances. The Space Wolves are lucky to be so tolerated. Were their genetic flaws and other issues ever to become broadly known within the Inquisition, they would undoubtedly be purged.
I see the GW Hobby as an expensive luxury not at all unlike golf. If you can't afford it, don't play.
I think that's how GW see themselves when they're actually a niche market. A luxury item is something that the masses aspire to having but may never get. GW is a niche within a niche market, there are no masses involved. The average person does not aspire to owning a table load of plastic and resin soldiers, let alone ones from the universes that GW deals in. Upsetting large segments of your niche market by treating them as stupid addicts will rapidly shut down word of mouth communication about your product - which seems to be how they advertise because I've never seen an ad for anything GW related outside of GW itself.
If GW were like golf, then it would allow any manufactured minis so long as they met certain specifications. You don't have the international golf body restricting golfers to an inhouse brand of golf clubs and balls. If GW were like golf then any company could produce space marines armed with weapons that looked like GWs offerings and they'd be legal to use in tournaments and legal to sell using 40k terms like terminator squad, devastator squad. Obviously GW is nothing like golf other than both being games.
2015/01/16 06:44:44
Subject: Chaos Space Marine Rumors bye bye Cult Marines
Nightlord1987 wrote: Saying Chaos legions couldn't exist is equal to loyalists having only Ultramarine successors, and a handful of shady Dark Angels left.
As far as the Imperium is concerned, all SMs are basically the same. That's why the Inquisition checks up on them to ensure conformity with the Codex, in all ways. That's what all of the Successors signed on for at the time of the Second Founding, and the Inquisition should expect them all to keep their word, with Exterminatus being the accepted and understood penalty for any significant variance.
Given that 30k appears to have the Legions well in hand, why shouldn't 40k be as you suggest, with an Ultras model for all SMs, and minimal, marginal variance for DAs or BAs or SWs?
30k lets GW have it both ways for those who want high-chrome Legions and those who want streamlined post-Legion Marines.
And besides, what SM player wouldn't be proud to pay GW an extra $50 to get their dataslate of defining Special Characters backed by 2 pages of Chapter rules?
The Codex was drawn up by Roboat not the Inquisition and I am quite sure The Sons Of Russ have not been using it from the beginning So Exterminatus is not a penalty for that particular infraction just Genetic abnormalities. wait...
Roboute drew up the Codex, but the Inquisition enforces it on those Chapters that don't have very strong support in the shadows to allow variances. The Space Wolves are lucky to be so tolerated. Were their genetic flaws and other issues ever to become broadly known within the Inquisition, they would undoubtedly be purged.
Tell that to the Inquisitorial ship Logan blew out of the sky for trying.
Logan's Great Company Oh yeah kickin' and not even bothering to take names. 2nd company 3rd company ravenguard House Navaros Forge world Lucious & Titan legion void runners 314th pie guard warboss 'ed krunchas waaaaaargh This thred needs more cow bell. Raised to acolyte of the children of the church of turtle pie by chaplain shrike 3/06/09 Help stop thread necro do not post in a thread more than a month old. "Dakkanaut" not "Dakkaite" Join the Church of the Children of Turtle Pie To become a member pm me or another member of the Church
2015/01/16 16:40:05
Subject: Chaos Space Marine Rumors bye bye Cult Marines
Probably for the reason given in the post you refer to: people have to ask why the iquisitors dont go after the wolves, or what would happen if they did. The answer have to be over the top.
-- $k 
-- 9k 
-- 6k 
-- 4k 
-- 
~1.5k
Logan's Great Company Oh yeah kickin' 
and not even bothering to take names. 
2nd company 
3rd company ravenguard 
House Navaros 
314th pie guard 
warboss 'ed krunchas waaaaaargh This thred needs more cow bell. 
