Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

i've been to stores through 4 states on the east coast and the only ones to survive are the ones who had plenty of gaming area. This is consistent with anecdotal stories I have seen across the internet.
In order for a store to survive, they need to know their customers, keep on hand what they want, offer prices that are competetive and find ways to make customers WANT to spend their money there rather than elsewhere. With gaming stores, one of the first and easiest ways to do this is offer a gaming area and competitive prices.
You will notice that almost every game store is also a card store. You will find pure card stores few and far between.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
I just look at the game / hobby stores in Ann Arbor and SoCal, and that's what I see very consistently. There isn't a single place in either locality that survives with the bulk of their space dedicated to lots of tables. In both metros, the places that survived long term were stores first.

Unless they are a dedicated card store, doing FNM and drafts and tournaments every weekend. Cards have a very different business model compared to a game / hobby store. Even then, the card stores are challenged to have enough of a base to thrive.

Interesting.

Two biggest game stores around here (Games Plus and Chicagoland Games) deliberately diversify. Carrying cards, wargames and Board Games with a strong following for all of them. . The biggest "Games Plus" (in the suburbs) still dedicates the largest portion of it's shelf space to wargames, yet they make space for alot of boardgamers and RPGers. When we go to game there's usually several board game groups, a couple of RPG groups and a 40k club (4-6 players) all gaming at the same time as our club (indie miniatures games).

The Second Biggest , Chicagoland (in Chicago) does roughly the same thing though their shelf space is more evenly split. They cater to each section and have a HUGE board game community.

A new one opened up about a year and a half ago out in the western suburbs with roughly the same model (not as much board games though), Draxtar. They have at least 7-9 4x6 wargaming tables and maybe 20 card tables. They seem to be intentionally setup to be able to host a ton of card players and even tournaments and having Wargamers playing at the same time.

There's a small, more recent chain of 3 "Gaming Goat" stores. These seem to follow the mostly Card model but also having Privateer press (they don't do 40k) and board games and they all seem to have significant are at least for card tables. Like you, we also have a fair number of similar stores that are mostly Card shops, often they are in conjunction with comic shops. .

There are other smaller ones too, but they do seem to come and go with more frequency. The trend in Chicago area over the last 20 years seems to be that out here folks seem to want a game and a place to play it. To survive it seems the most successful places will try to serve everyone even if you need a somewhat larger space to accommodate them all. Like your area however, we do also have stores that seem to specialize in cards.

I'd be curious to know more of the details out there. Are game stores more specialized? Do you have a big board game culture? How big are these stores?

 EVIL INC wrote:
i've been to stores through 4 states on the east coast and the only ones to survive are the ones who had plenty of gaming area. This is consistent with anecdotal stories I have seen across the internet.
In order for a store to survive, they need to know their customers, keep on hand what they want, offer prices that are competetive and find ways to make customers WANT to spend their money there rather than elsewhere. With gaming stores, one of the first and easiest ways to do this is offer a gaming area and competitive prices.
You will notice that almost every game store is also a card store. You will find pure card stores few and far between.

Around here, there are dedicated card stores. There's even one in the same parking lot as Brookhurst Hobbies. They have a very different layout. I forget if Mercenary Market sold cards, but they sure had a lot of empty space.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
In the Bay Area, it seems roughly the same. Gaming stores are crammed full of product with a lot of diversity and not many tables. Games of Berkeley is pretty huge for a gaming store, but they don't have any tables to play on unless they are all hidden upstairs. A lot of comic book stores sell cards, so the gaming stores seem to focus on board games and tabletop games and RPGs. They might have some cards, but generally not even close to half as much as other stuff they carry. Models and military war gaming are well represented in SoCal and, from what I hear, Sacremento.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I know there are gaming clubs in Berkely, and I imagine a lot of people game at home with friends in SoCal.

Bob has it right for SoCal. MM sold cards, as does pretty much everybody, but merely having the a few boosters on premises does not a card store make. Majestix just dumped their comics and rebranded as a card store.

I am a little late to the party but here is my input anyhow.

I use to play 40k up until 7th and had four armies that I purchased over the span of two years. During that time I could walk in and grab about 70-80% of the army off the shelf unless I as looking for triplicates of something like a Triarch Stalker, drop pods etc etc etc. Because of this I would purchase what I needed and have the owner order the last of it.

Contrast this to Warmanouns. Before I started playing I talked to my local PG, demo'd a few games with armies lent to me by local players and decided on a faction. I then spent a week researching my purchases to build my three tournament lists. Queue payday and I walk into my FLGS with a wallet full of cash. Out of the 20 odd boxes/blisters I needed he had 4 of them.

So I bite the bullet and have him order every thing at full price and wait two weeks for every thing to arrive as his distributor was also light on stock.

A few months down the road I decide I want the fancy and finally fully released CoC (aside from the TEP). I know what I want to purchase and have my spreadsheet all set up. I walk into my LGS and he has a total of 5 CoC boxes and about 7-8 blisters. I needed two of the boxes on hand (out of about 10 that I wanted to purchase) and two of the blisters of which he was lacking 10 or so that I was looking for.

He was able to order half of the stuff I wanted in about a week and a half and told me it would be 2-3 weeks on the rest.

I checked online at another retailer three cities over and he has it all in stock, has a 15% discount for online orders and free shipping for orders over $100.00. I had my order delivered to my office two days later.

I'm now on my third army. I did my research, planned my armies and put the money aside. Sure enough it is the same thing. I was able to find 1/5th of the stock I require and would have had to wait a week or so to have him order it in at full value. I ordered online from a shop I will most likely never play at unless I go for a tournament and all because my FLGS refuses to carry adequate warmahordes stock despite having about 15 regular players plus countless other players who play at home/school/else where(and many of us have faction ADD/starting new armies with the new box sets coming out).

Moral of the story. If you want loyal customers to purchase from you at the very least carry a couple of the commonly purchased army units. Many of us now do a bi-monthly order online because purchases over 400 get a discount of 20-25% depending on the item and free over night shipping if the order is placed before 1400 the previous day.

Compromise. Full army from scratch, save money (the hobby is just too expensive), afterwards, when your army is playable and you just buy new releases here and there when you like the models, then go with your lfgs.

Buying an 80 dollars models a month or every other month is no big deal, the problem is dropping 800 to build a playable army.

xxvaderxx wrote:
Compromise. Full army from scratch, save money (the hobby is just too expensive), afterwards, when your army is playable and you just buy new releases here and there when you like the models, then go with your lfgs.

Buying an 80 dollars models a month or every other month is no big deal, the problem is dropping 800 to build a playable army.

That's a good middle ground. Peronally I don't have 80 a month for the hobby, but If I'm not short on cash I try to put 100 a year towards the store.

 thegreatchimp wrote:

xxvaderxx wrote:
Compromise. Full army from scratch, save money (the hobby is just too expensive), afterwards, when your army is playable and you just buy new releases here and there when you like the models, then go with your lfgs.

Buying an 80 dollars models a month or every other month is no big deal, the problem is dropping 800 to build a playable army.

That's a good middle ground. Peronally I don't have 80 a month for the hobby, but If I'm not short on cash I try to put 100 a year towards the store.

Well that's pretty much what I've decided to do. A box here or there, or a bunch of the cheaper blisters I'll order from the store. If it's a big order, like I'm buying 3-4 new units to take my force in a different direction, then I'm ordering online because that's likely going to be $200 or more and saving a lot on it would be great.

I don't have a local minis store, but I do buy board games from the local when I can. If I'm away in a shop and find something I like, or if I find a really good deal online (like 40%+ off RRP) I may use that though.

I have been watching this, and it made me think back to the pre-Internet days of when you had no choice but to support your local store (which might not have been too local).

Dallas, Texas, for instance, had ONE game store until the 1990's, and it now only has a handful.

Houston, Texas seems to only have one.

Los Angeles has two (and neither are in LA itself).

But.... Back to my point.

If it is something that I run a high risk of getting pirated re-casts online, or something that is typically well-supported, and which isn't going to disappear, then I will always take the trouble to bit or order via the store.

And I will try to always buy paints and brushes, and other such things via the store.

But there are just so many things now that are so hard to get through a store....

I am sure that I have repeated what others have said.

And, ultimately, what we are facing is the eventually need to confront the changing dynamics of our economic system in the global economy being dependent upon a vanishing workforce.

Eventually, we need to confront either a return to feudalism, or a shift to a non-capitalistic economy that does not force work for supporting one's life.

But that is either a different topic, or the ultimate foundation of this one.

MB


Automatically Appended Next Post:

xxvaderxx wrote:
Compromise. Full army from scratch, save money (the hobby is just too expensive), afterwards, when your army is playable and you just buy new releases here and there when you like the models, then go with your lfgs.

Buying an 80 dollars models a month or every other month is no big deal, the problem is dropping 800 to build a playable army.

And there is that.

My Thunderbolt Mountain Miniatures and Vintage Ral Partna Goblin and Orc army will have cost me about $1,200 all told... Maybe more, since I have not paid close attention to what the Ral Partna vintage stuff cost me (to think that I bought the same collection of miniatures in 1980 for just $100, and got 200 miniatures).

One thing that I do to try to offset this is to try to spread out the purchases so that I am only spending $75 - $100 a month.

Sometimes you can't do that if you wish to take advantage of sales or discounts.

MB

That store I told you all about? I got banned. The owner insulted my friend who works as a painter for a commission service was accused of stealing business I stood up for him and I got banned with him. He was conducting business there, but not stealing it, because he is a painter.
The owner called us toxic be cause we bring Comeet it I've armies to friendly games.
kinda funny, the conversation got started because the owner offered 10% off pretty order on 4th til june, which magicallyrics seem to be the time no big releases are happening

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
That store I told you all about? I got banned. The owner insulted my friend who works as a painter for a commission service was accused of stealing business I stood up for him and I got banned with him. He was conducting business there, but not stealing it, because he is a painter.
The owner called us toxic be cause we bring Comeet it I've armies to friendly games.

What are you talking about here? I don't get it...

 Alpharius wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
The owner called us toxic be cause we bring Comeet it I've armies to friendly games.

What are you talking about here? I don't get it...

I think he's saying he brought Compet-it-ive babykillers to ROFLstomp players just out to relax and have fun.

 Alpharius wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
That store I told you all about? I got banned. The owner insulted my friend who works as a painter for a commission service was accused of stealing business I stood up for him and I got banned with him. He was conducting business there, but not stealing it, because he is a painter.
The owner called us toxic be cause we bring Comeet it I've armies to friendly games.

What are you talking about here? I don't get it...

It's probably an auto correct mobile thing.


He's saying "The owner called us toxic because we bring competitive armies to friendly games."

Yes, sorry, Auto correct is a bitch.
But as we said, I play White Scars backed up with a knight. Completely fluffy, yet they had a problem with it.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Yes, sorry, Auto correct is a bitch.
But as we said, I play White Scars backed up with a knight. Completely fluffy, yet they had a problem with it.

They sound like casual scrubs

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Yes, sorry, Auto correct is a bitch.
But as we said, I play White Scars backed up with a knight. Completely fluffy, yet they had a problem with it.

Don't ya know?
Fluffy is the new WAAC.
Except when it isn't.
But then sometimes WAAC just happens to be fluffy.
And then anyone playing fluff becomes a WAAC.
Except for when people let them get away with it.
...


*GW balance*

BeAfraid wrote:

If it is something that I run a high risk of getting pirated re-casts online, or something that is typically well-supported, and which isn't going to disappear, then I will always take the trouble to bit or order via the store.

And I will try to always buy paints and brushes, and other such things via the store.

But there are just so many things now that are so hard to get through a store....

The only times you have a high chance of getting recasts is if you're buying things from China, Russia or perhaps eBay. These days, we're aware of a hell of a lot more than ever. While 15-20+ years ago it was easy to spend all my money on Citadel with a smattering of Ral Partha, RAFM, Grenadier, etc these days I don't find it hard to spend all my hobby money on brands that didn't exist back then and/or are not really stocked locally at all (or in any quantity) anyway. So why order from a store when ordering direct is so much more efficient and cheaper to boot? Brushes from a store? Sure, if they're cheap and cheerful. Army Painter brushes are mostly crap, so if you want a good brush you need to go to a proper art store - so you may as well go online. I mostly got my brushes back then from model kit/train stores anyway, and now I get W&N S7 from the UK - for less than the local ripoff wants for his gakky Army Painter brushes.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 jonolikespie wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Yes, sorry, Auto correct is a bitch.
But as we said, I play White Scars backed up with a knight. Completely fluffy, yet they had a problem with it.

Don't ya know?
Fluffy is the new WAAC.
Except when it isn't.
But then sometimes WAAC just happens to be fluffy.
And then anyone playing fluff becomes a WAAC.
Except for when people let them get away with it.
...

*GW balance*

I'm not going to get drawn into an argument here, but "White Scars backed up with a knight" can describe many different kinds of force composition.

...and I'm reminded of this story:
http://imgur.com/gallery/V0gND

 Azazelx wrote:


I'm not going to get drawn into an argument here, but "White Scars backed up with a knight" can describe many different kinds of force composition.

...and I'm reminded of this story:
http://imgur.com/gallery/V0gND

I like the images, but hate the wording on those posts. "Cheese" this and "gimmick" that. No, the rules are bad and a both were playing them; live/die (win/lose) by the rules. It's scrub language otherwise.

 Azazelx wrote:
I'm not going to get drawn into an argument here, but "White Scars backed up with a knight" can describe many different kinds of force composition.

...and I'm reminded of this story:
http://imgur.com/gallery/V0gND

European Team Championship (ETC) for 40k.

I remember it well, and love the picture, but I think the explanation is lame.

 TheKbob wrote:
I like the images, but hate the wording on those posts. "Cheese" this and "gimmick" that. No, the rules are bad and a both were playing them; live/die (win/lose) by the rules. It's scrub language otherwise.

Also, IIRC, that picture was posed. The Tau player did win the game by blocking the table edge, but then they called over a judge and decided to take a funny picture.

 Alpharius wrote:
I know I'm late to the party here, but I'm definitely in the camp of "Spend As Much As You Can" at the store where you spend most of your time.

Otherwise, it probably won't be there for long.

This will always be my stance.

I will judge you if you don't.

When I want or need something ASAP, I buy from the local store. (which is frequently, due to having a tourney or a new battle plan pop up with game night looming very close)

I buy online when I can wait, or need to save those few bucks. Buying online is usually as expensive as buying in a store, even with deals; due to shipping.

Largely, for me; It depends on time restraints.
(I don't mind buying a model for $10 more when I can't wait three weeks for the model to get to me. I just imagine it was $10 for overnight shipping without having to track down the package)

I think it comes down to value-added, ultimately, and the fact that value is always subjective means there will never be a definitive answer.

In the best possible world, we'd have a flourishing local marketplace with almost every product and enough wages that price was irrelevant.

In my particular case, I do custom framing, which is hard to order online, as well as risky because of the glass involved. I'm still protected by the vagaries of shipping, in a sense.

But when I go to the lone FLGS that offers more than GW, it's sad indeed. Few products on the shelves, long ordering times, and shipping tacked on to our orders. We also have to pay to rent a table, or buy a yearly membership to pay less per table. I never do because of my work schedule. I rarely go there anymore because there is a lack of product. And I wish I could give them my money, honestly. So instead I give it to a store in Toronto. I can even understand how that works out in my mind.

I usually make a point to buy something every time I go to a store to play. Otherwise I only buy locally when I need something fast, or really need to compare it in person (I have to do this with brass rod etc.)

Trouble is, half the time the store I am at doesn't have stock I want. Their ordering process is trash, so I just buy online and play a my house.

My local store doesnt stock the stuff I want so I buy it online, but items like dice and paints and glue I buy from my store as its the local store, now if my store stocked some warmachine I would totally buy stuff from there, unless there was a major difference in price,
Like if I could buy the same model on gifts for geeks for 20% less then my local store then anything above £10 will be bought online,
But my local store only has 1 warmachine item (I'm not even kidding) soo....

For me it comes down to this, would I support a local selling a Codex for $83 or get the same thing from Britain for $50 (inc postage) and save 66%, i'll get it from Britain everyday.

 DukeBadham wrote:
My local store doesnt stock the stuff I want so I buy it online, but items like dice and paints and glue I buy from my store as its the local store, now if my store stocked some warmachine I would totally buy stuff from there, unless there was a major difference in price,
Like if I could buy the same model on gifts for geeks for 20% less then my local store then anything above £10 will be bought online,
But my local store only has 1 warmachine item (I'm not even kidding) soo....

And here is the Crux of it. Convienence is key, not table space.
If you stocked what I wanted I will most likely buy more from ya. But if you dont, and you take 3-]4 weeks to get it, while anther place may take the same time or less for cheaper, im buying from them.

Pay where you play is my motto. There is nothing that I need to buy that cant wait 1-2 weeks. I will also take extra steps to try and work with the mini's the store already has for many of my conversions or ideas.

Outside of specialist things like forgeworld or things they dont stock regularly/the prices are so far apart I cant justify it(like rare earth magnets) I will always try to get my stuff locally.

Do I trade for things? Sure, do I sell things? yep. But I don't sell locally.

However there is a caveat to this, and that is when its someone elses money. My dad asks me to grab stuff for him to bring to china, I get that as cheap as I can because he doesnt benefit from the local store.

'Pay where you play is my motto'

Amen to that dude, I'm the same. I think about the options left to me if mt FLGS shut (local club where its all cliques and WAAC, or nothing) and I'm glad to drop cash there. And if it's a tiny bit more expensive (which it really isn't 99% of the time) then thats the fun tax.