How do the Eldar view Space Marines?

Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:

No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.

If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

**Squidmanlolz**

The Eldar view humanity as lesser and dirty. How do they view the strongest and most powerful humans? Do Eldar see any difference between Space Marines and other humans, or are they all the same? Do Eldar respect Space Marines any more than they would an average human?

**Co'tor Shas**

Judging from the path of the eldar books, they seem to view them in the same light.

**AnomanderRake**

Large muscular brutish savages instead of normal-sized brutish savages.

**Squidmanlolz**

AnomanderRake wrote:
Large muscular brutish savages instead of normal-sized brutish savages.

I figured as much

**797th Red Tigers**

As I understand it, the eldar see most, if not all humans as lesser beings. This is often (and not at all subtly) implied to be the same as the way humans treat monkeys in real life. Hell, they even call us Mon'Keigh, which practically is the word Monkey. However, the Eldar probably recognize the Space Marines and all their augmentations as something different from the average human. While probably not by very much, I'd wager that the Eldar do have a modicum more respect for the SM than the average 'Mon'Keigh'.

**Squidmanlolz**

797th Red Tigers wrote:
As I understand it, the eldar see most, if not all humans as lesser beings. This is often (and not at all subtly) implied to be the same as the way humans treat monkeys in real life. Hell, they even call us Mon'Keigh, which practically is the word Monkey. However, the Eldar probably recognize the Space Marines and all their augmentations as something different from the average human. While probably not by very much, I'd wager that the Eldar do have a modicum more respect for the SM than the average 'Mon'Keigh'.

I'm kind of seeing in a way that the Eldar view humans as essentially chimpanzees and Space marines as Silverback Gorillas. One is obviously stronger, but they are of comparable "savageness" and intelligence.

**797th Red Tigers**

Squidmanlolz wrote:
I'm kind of seeing in a way that the Eldar view humans as essentially chimpanzees and Space marines as Silverback Gorillas. One is obviously stronger, but they are of comparable "savageness" and intelligence.

Yeah, that's a pretty good analogy. The Eldar tend to see pretty much everything about humans, from the way we walk to the caliber of our weapons, as crude and simple. After all, comparing the monomolecular shurikens of the Eldar to the fist-sized explosive bolts of the Imperium, it's not hard to see why.

**Accolade**

That's why they call them Mon-keigh!

(Not really the most subtle bit of fluff right there)

EDIT: Ooop, 797th beat me to it.

**Orblivion**

I think from a combat effectiveness perspective, they have a modicum of respect for the Astartes. They still see them as slow and unintelligent brutes, but I think they at least acknowledge that they are deadly.

**Grey Templar**

The Eldar view all other sentients as lesser beings. Space marines are just humans that are significantly more dangerous.

Eldar certainly can't view Space Marines as slow, given that they have the same initiative as a basic Eldar.

**TheCustomLime**

Dangerous, well armed and armored gorillas.

**ThePrimordial**

It's kinda hard to view something that could tear you in half, head to crotch with one arm as inferior. Probably not for the Eldar though.
I mean one marine will casually thrash 3 aspect warriors if you put them in the same room.

**Spetulhu**

Grey Templar wrote:
Eldar certainly can't view Space Marines as slow, given that they have the same initiative as a basic Eldar.

Don't basic Eldar have a 5? The marines are slow compared to that. More dangerous than a normal human if they manage to stay alive to hit back, but still slow. Only some of the wraith units are dazed enough to move as slowly as a marine.

**TheCustomLime**

Space Marines have superior S, T and armor values. They're basically just Guardsmen who hit first on the TT. In the lore... I think it's the same general thing. Eldar are obviously much quicker than humans but Space Marines are very, very strong and tough.

**Wyzilla**

TheCustomLime wrote:
Space Marines have superior S, T and armor values. They're basically just Guardsmen who hit first on the TT. In the lore... I think it's the same general thing. Eldar are obviously much quicker than humans but Space Marines are very, very strong and tough.

No, Astartes are much, much faster then standard humans to the point at times it looks like they're teleporting to the naked human eye (because we have a hard cap of how fast we can see). Eldar are even faster.

**TheCustomLime**

Wyzilla wrote:
TheCustomLime wrote:
Space Marines have superior S, T and armor values. They're basically just Guardsmen who hit first on the TT. In the lore... I think it's the same general thing. Eldar are obviously much quicker than humans but Space Marines are very, very strong and tough.

No, Astartes are much, much faster then standard humans to the point at times it looks like they're teleporting to the naked human eye (because we have a hard cap of how fast we can see). Eldar are even faster.

Damn. Eldar must have crazy energy requirements to go that quick.

**morganfreeman**

ThePrimordial wrote:
It's kinda hard to view something that could tear you in half, head to crotch with one arm as inferior. Probably not for the Eldar though.
I mean one marine will casually thrash 3 aspect warriors if you put them in the same room.

Humans routinely view things like Gorillas and various other animals which could do that as "below us".

**Squidmanlolz**

Wyzilla wrote:
TheCustomLime wrote:
Space Marines have superior S, T and armor values. They're basically just Guardsmen who hit first on the TT. In the lore... I think it's the same general thing. Eldar are obviously much quicker than humans but Space Marines are very, very strong and tough.

No, Astartes are much, much faster then standard humans to the point at times it looks like they're teleporting to the naked human eye (because we have a hard cap of how fast we can see). Eldar are even faster.

I really hate to be that guy, but is there a source that says Space Marines are that fast

**Ashiraya**

TheCustomLime wrote:
Wyzilla wrote:
TheCustomLime wrote:
Space Marines have superior S, T and armor values. They're basically just Guardsmen who hit first on the TT. In the lore... I think it's the same general thing. Eldar are obviously much quicker than humans but Space Marines are very, very strong and tough.

No, Astartes are much, much faster then standard humans to the point at times it looks like they're teleporting to the naked human eye (because we have a hard cap of how fast we can see). Eldar are even faster.

Damn. Eldar must have crazy energy requirements to go that quick.

It's the same kind of energy that prevents Titans from getting stuck the moment they as much as glance at any surface softer than adamantium.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Squidmanlolz wrote:
Wyzilla wrote:
TheCustomLime wrote:
Space Marines have superior S, T and armor values. They're basically just Guardsmen who hit first on the TT. In the lore... I think it's the same general thing. Eldar are obviously much quicker than humans but Space Marines are very, very strong and tough.

No, Astartes are much, much faster then standard humans to the point at times it looks like they're teleporting to the naked human eye (because we have a hard cap of how fast we can see). Eldar are even faster.

I really hate to be that guy, but is there a source that says Space Marines are that fast

Lots. Lots lots lots.

Hell, there is a passage in Void Stalker that has been calculated into something like Mach 180.

Now, they are probs not that fast, but there's still lots of examples. Wyzilla will probably appear with them any moment now...

**Wyzilla**

TheCustomLime wrote:
Wyzilla wrote:
TheCustomLime wrote:
Space Marines have superior S, T and armor values. They're basically just Guardsmen who hit first on the TT. In the lore... I think it's the same general thing. Eldar are obviously much quicker than humans but Space Marines are very, very strong and tough.

No, Astartes are much, much faster then standard humans to the point at times it looks like they're teleporting to the naked human eye (because we have a hard cap of how fast we can see). Eldar are even faster.

Damn. Eldar must have crazy energy requirements to go that quick.

It could be precog, but the Path of the Eldar books have Aspects weaving around lasgun fire. Or bullets.

**Xenomancers**

Grey Templar wrote:
The Eldar view all other sentients as lesser beings. Space marines are just humans that are significantly more dangerous.

Eldar certainly can't view Space Marines as slow, given that they have the same initiative as a basic Eldar.

Not anymore - guardians got the BS WS and INT of aspect warriors now.

**Animus**

Something bright and powerful burned across the skein, spearing into the heart of Alaitoc’s rune. Thirianna recognised it immediately and felt a shiver of apprehension. The hidden strength the seers had witnessed, the play of their deadly reserves, was unfolding. A red-and-white fist closed on the craftworld, smashing through hundreds of strands of fate.

Thirianna sped across the infinity circuit to the counter-attack against the landing site, seeing dozens of eldar lives shorn short by the reserves being committed. She saw giants, garbed in thick, powered armour. Their livery was a vivid red, their shoulder pads and insignia painted in stark white. Thirianna looked into their spirits and saw warriors hardened by lives of battle, their minds honed to sharp points, their existence directed towards the singular purpose of war.

She snatched what information she could, hearing devotional speeches directed to the spectre of their founder, and glimpsed a world where humans teemed like insects in gigantic cities that pierced polluted skies. She was overwhelmed by shadows of childhood memories of bitter fighting in dark, twisted tunnels, desperate struggles with sharpened metal splinters and home-made guns. They were killers raised from birth, their instinct for slaying honed since infancy in a world where the ruthless lived and the meek did not.

Yet all this was banded about by a willpower of steel, contained by the training of their masters and their dedication to their cause, forged into a cold fury, a righteous anger now directed at the eldar of Alaitoc. They were natural killers, who took joy in slaying, given the greatest armour and weapons the humans possessed, instilled with fervour for destruction like a war-mask that was never removed.

They were not human at all. An Aspect Warrior embraced the touch of Khaine and became a heartless killer, but he or she remained eldar in spirit, able to set aside their destructive impulses when not at war. These warriors had left behind concepts of mercy and desire for peace, and sought only conflict and bloodshed. They were more than human in many ways, yet to Thirianna’s mind they were also less than the basest creatures, as crude as orks in their warlike desires, an affront to the galaxy, serving no part other than as harbingers of slaughter. That the self-declared Emperor of Mankind had desired them to be this way betrayed his barbaric nature.

Thirianna shuddered with fear at what she saw, momentarily gripped by panic.

tl;dr Fear and respect of their prowess, disgust at their being and maybe a little pity too.

**jhe90**

even to a faction as arrogant as the Eldar, its obvious that a Marine is a far more dangerous foe.

i think in one Slalamander book there lesser, but they reconise that there dangerous too, not as fast but tough and brutal enemies. (been a while since i read it)

**Grey Templar**

Xenomancers wrote:
Grey Templar wrote:
The Eldar view all other sentients as lesser beings. Space marines are just humans that are significantly more dangerous.

Eldar certainly can't view Space Marines as slow, given that they have the same initiative as a basic Eldar.

Not anymore - guardians got the BS WS and INT of aspect warriors now.

Really... Guess they still suck even with that buff.

**Orblivion**

Squidmanlolz wrote:
Wyzilla wrote:
TheCustomLime wrote:
Space Marines have superior S, T and armor values. They're basically just Guardsmen who hit first on the TT. In the lore... I think it's the same general thing. Eldar are obviously much quicker than humans but Space Marines are very, very strong and tough.

No, Astartes are much, much faster then standard humans to the point at times it looks like they're teleporting to the naked human eye (because we have a hard cap of how fast we can see). Eldar are even faster.

I really hate to be that guy, but is there a source that says Space Marines are that fast

The first thing that comes to mind is Horus Aximand's explanation of "transhuman dread" in Age of Darkness:

But to see one move. Apparently that was the real thing. Nothing human-shaped should be so fast, so lithe, so powerful, especially not anything in excess of two metres tall and carrying more armour than four normal men could lift.

Something huge and warlike gave pause: something huge and warlike and moving with the speed of a striking snake, that was when you knew that gods moved amongst men, and that there existed a scale of strength and speed beyond anything mortal...

**Wyzilla**

Orblivion wrote:
Squidmanlolz wrote:
Wyzilla wrote:
TheCustomLime wrote:
Space Marines have superior S, T and armor values. They're basically just Guardsmen who hit first on the TT. In the lore... I think it's the same general thing. Eldar are obviously much quicker than humans but Space Marines are very, very strong and tough.

No, Astartes are much, much faster then standard humans to the point at times it looks like they're teleporting to the naked human eye (because we have a hard cap of how fast we can see). Eldar are even faster.

I really hate to be that guy, but is there a source that says Space Marines are that fast

The first thing that comes to mind is Horus Aximand's explanation of "transhuman dread" in Age of Darkness:

But to see one move. Apparently that was the real thing. Nothing human-shaped should be so fast, so lithe, so powerful, especially not anything in excess of two metres tall and carrying more armour than four normal men could lift.

Something huge and warlike gave pause: something huge and warlike and moving with the speed of a striking snake, that was when you knew that gods moved amongst men, and that there existed a scale of strength and speed beyond anything mortal...

That was probably one of the more hilarious things in the Horus Heresy. There's a legit psychological condition where normal mortal humans go insane after seeing space marines in combat.

**KingDeath**

Wyzilla wrote:
TheCustomLime wrote:
Wyzilla wrote:
TheCustomLime wrote:
Space Marines have superior S, T and armor values. They're basically just Guardsmen who hit first on the TT. In the lore... I think it's the same general thing. Eldar are obviously much quicker than humans but Space Marines are very, very strong and tough.

No, Astartes are much, much faster then standard humans to the point at times it looks like they're teleporting to the naked human eye (because we have a hard cap of how fast we can see). Eldar are even faster.

Damn. Eldar must have crazy energy requirements to go that quick.

It could be precog, but the Path of the Eldar books have Aspects weaving around lasgun fire. Or bullets.

In 40k, Eldarspacevisionmagic travels faster than light and apparently so does their nervous system. Not that spacemarines who could outrun a Landspeeder are any better but hey, the more obviously stupid abilities he/she gives our already outrageous spaceheroes the less the average BL author has to think about a halfway decent story or *gasp* "believable" (that is, not relying on the total incompetence of the losing side) battles.

**Martel732**

These novels, I assume, sound horrible and fanboyish. I would ignore all of it.

**ThePrimordial**

My point was that a marine will fething destroy an Eldar in combat. Or 2 or 3. Maybe not 4.
Due to being genuinely better fighters on top of being dramatically stronger and tougher.
The Eldar still look at them as inferior. Somehow.

**Asherian Command**

The same way they view apes and monkeys. Bewilderment but some form of fascination. (And deep seated hate)
Some see humans as tools and some see humans as potential allies.

They see certain chapters with more levels of respect. IE the Thousand Sons.