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col_impact wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:

col_impact wrote:

 Overlord Thraka wrote:
Maybe i's my opponent, Maybe it's crons, maybe it's something else. BUT, my Orks are squashing my brother's Cron army

I'm pretty sure after playing a few games he'll be better .But my Orks are still doing to good to be ignored

Orks have always been a tough matchup for Crons. Too many bodies for them to clear. And unless your brother starts spamming gauntlets of fire on Olords and Lords and particle beamers on Blades he is going to have a tough time.

Eh, I've said before, Necrons have access to tons of blasts. Monoliths, Doomsday Arks, Doom Scythes, ext. I've never had a problem with Orks.

I beat Orks too. But its easy to build a Cron army that will die to Orks, so its something to shore up.

It's become very easy to build a cron army to have a chance against any other army, which is why I enjoy this book a lot more. No more spamming just warriors and tesla destructors.

What do you think is the toughest match-up? I am thinking Demons or USM MSU.

I would not say that they "struggle" against Armour value 3+ when one of the Detachments is a Cult which allows a reroll of all wounds , and the base troop comes with a 2 shot ap3 weapon.

col_impact wrote:
What do you think is the toughest match-up? I am thinking Demons or USM MSU.

If you're talking cheesy daemons, probably, but only because it would difficult for anyone to get through a 2++ rerollable save. If you're talking standard Daemons, Necrons have a decent chance. I took out Scarbrand turn 1 with half a squad of Warriors and 2 staves of light.

 krodarklorr wrote:

col_impact wrote:
What do you think is the toughest match-up? I am thinking Demons or USM MSU.

If you're talking cheesy daemons, probably, but only because it would difficult for anyone to get through a 2++ rerollable save. If you're talking standard Daemons, Necrons have a decent chance. I took out Scarbrand turn 1 with half a squad of Warriors and 2 staves of light.

Assume I am always talking about the cheesiest builds.

col_impact wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:

col_impact wrote:
What do you think is the toughest match-up? I am thinking Demons or USM MSU.

If you're talking cheesy daemons, probably, but only because it would difficult for anyone to get through a 2++ rerollable save. If you're talking standard Daemons, Necrons have a decent chance. I took out Scarbrand turn 1 with half a squad of Warriors and 2 staves of light.

Assume I am always talking about the cheesiest builds.

Well then yeah lol. But everyone has an issue with that really.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
They basically have bolters that glance vehicles. In return, they actually rather lack heavy weaponry. They're resilient, but at the cost of overall damage output.

That's my take as well. Made of iron, but forced to gum you to death with most of the things it brings to the table.

col_impact wrote:
What do you think is the toughest match-up? I am thinking Demons or USM MSU.

I'm honestly drawing a blank on how a Pure Necron army would deal with 4-5 Flyrants myself.

Maybe play to objectives... I guess?

 SilverDevilfish wrote:

col_impact wrote:
What do you think is the toughest match-up? I am thinking Demons or USM MSU.

I'm honestly drawing a blank on how a Pure Necron army would deal with 4-5 Flyrants myself.

Maybe play to objectives... I guess?

Snapfire their pants off?

Or Doom/Night Scythes.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 SilverDevilfish wrote:

col_impact wrote:
What do you think is the toughest match-up? I am thinking Demons or USM MSU.

I'm honestly drawing a blank on how a Pure Necron army would deal with 4-5 Flyrants myself.

Maybe play to objectives... I guess?

Snapfire their pants off?

Or Doom/Night Scythes.

Bout to say, did we forget about the best flying transports in the game? With a pretty good weapon that people spammed last edition?

 krodarklorr wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 SilverDevilfish wrote:

col_impact wrote:
What do you think is the toughest match-up? I am thinking Demons or USM MSU.

I'm honestly drawing a blank on how a Pure Necron army would deal with 4-5 Flyrants myself.

Maybe play to objectives... I guess?

Snapfire their pants off?

Or Doom/Night Scythes.

Bout to say, did we forget about the best flying transports in the game? With a pretty good weapon that people spammed last edition?

They are less spammable thanks to points cost adjustments, but yeah, they're still pretty good.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 SilverDevilfish wrote:

col_impact wrote:
What do you think is the toughest match-up? I am thinking Demons or USM MSU.

I'm honestly drawing a blank on how a Pure Necron army would deal with 4-5 Flyrants myself.

Maybe play to objectives... I guess?

Snapfire their pants off?

Or Doom/Night Scythes.

Bout to say, did we forget about the best flying transports in the game? With a pretty good weapon that people spammed last edition?

They are less spammable thanks to points cost adjustments, but yeah, they're still pretty good.

That is true. Considering you have min/max with Immortals instead of warriors now.

Less spammable, but still pretty spammable if one wants, certainly moreso than most other Flyers.

FMC's are a pretty tough nut for most armies, particularly multiple Hive Tyrants and Nurgle DP's.

 Vaktathi wrote:
Nurgle DP's.

Tomb Blades =D

 krodarklorr wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
Nurgle DP's.

Tomb Blades =D

That'll work, a unit of ten should take one down in two turns. Not quite as useful though against the Hive Tyrant.

 Vaktathi wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
Nurgle DP's.

Tomb Blades =D

That'll work, a unit of ten should take one down in two turns. Not quite as useful though against the Hive Tyrant.

That is true. That is very true. I dunno, we'll have to see.

All in all, this sounds better than I initially feared. The Resilience vs Firepower debate is particularly interesting - as it will, imo, be an absolute contrary playstyle to the high firepower tau.
Silver tide advancing against tau hold positions like a zombie necron apocalypse... yes. Yes, I can get behind that.

Davor wrote:

Why is that? I say play what you want to play. Just like how people who have played Eldar before their 6th edition codex still keep paying Eldar now. They play not because of an over powered codex but because they like or love playing them. So if you like Necrons play Necrons. So play what you want. Play what you will have fun with. Like the fluff, like the minis play it. Who cares what other people say. You are not playing Necrons because they are supposedly over powered. You play Necrons because you enjoy them.

Well that is somewhat hard to explain. I somehow always LIKE to be the underdog. I played undead in WC3 when they were considered the weakest - because I liked their style. And it felt good.
I played Horde in WoW when Horde was seriously outnumbered - and it felt good.
I guess I'm just not the type of player that enjoys being "strong".
While yes, you are right, fluff and models are the primary reason you play an army because power limits shift, it is not EVERYTHING. My worry simply is that I will repeatedly win and therefore suck the fun out of my opponents games. I want to win games, but not ROFLSTOMP wins. I narrowed down my selection to necrons solely on fluff, models, diversity and playstyle. I didn't decide by power level, but by how "interesting" stuff is and necrons are, quite frankly, VERY different to any SM army in every conceivable way.

Davor wrote:

Thairne wrote:
Artificially limiting what I want to bring is quite offputting too.Maybe I should look at 'Nids more closely again..

You didn't really explain yourself on why it's "quite offputting" to limit your self. Why is this? I love Tyranids. You will be playing the same builds over and over again. While I believe you will have fun with Tyranids you have no where the possibilities to choose from like you do in the Necron codex.

I am sorry but this is one of the most stupidest things I have read today. This reminds me on being in the Skyrim forums when people are complaining that Fast Travel is in the game. Just because it's in the game doesn't mean you have to use it. There is Fast Travel in the game for people who want it and asked for it. If you don't like Fast Travel don't use it. Complaining that it's in the game and something you don't have to use seems so stupid when it's in your power not to use it.

So now you have a very well balanced codex that you can choose what to use and not what to use. Trust me, I collect Tyranids. You would love to have what Necrons have and have VARIETY to play different games.

So please explain to me that if you find something in the codex that is too powerful why can't you say "I will not use this unit in this game." While you may not want to use it if you keep beating your friend, you may find another opponent who you may one day say "Dang I wish I had this unit so I can beat this guy." Trust me, you will not find it in the Nid codex. Also when other codices get updated they can get the Necron treatment as well. What are you going to do then? What are you going to do when your friend buys the new powerful codex. Are you still going to be happy with a codex that has limited options?

Use your mind. Comments like these are why we get "dumbed down" codices in 40 like we did with 4th edition Dark Angles, Eldar and Chaos Space Marines. Is that what you really want? Another 4th edition Dark Angel codex?

It is offputting because of that nagging feeling in the back of my head. I want to build a list I like without having to fear I just build OP-List #1255. By just looking at the models I already know I like Spyders and Wraiths, so most likely will include a Canoptec Formation at some point in time. But if Wraiths are that damn powerful I might not want to do that.. although I want to field the models because I like them. I want to build a fluffy TAC list that I like without it being OP. Limiting myself pointswise is a solution offered here that works - I can STILL take whatever I want and swamp you in Wraiths if it tickles my fancy without it being a steamroll.
I don't really think it "stupid" to want to be a fair player. You are right with your argument, options are always preferable to none (heck, as a DA player I know how bad internal balance feels, I even started out with pure DW), but not at the price of actually not having fun with my army because of its powerlevel.
That's just how I tick.

Reanimation protocols is borderline broken now. It was pretty powerful in the previous dex but the changes made in this edition have buffed it when it wasn't needed. They are soooo durable now.

I played a couple games at the weekend against crons and while I admit that I think crons are a bit of a counter to grey knights, I just could not keep the crons dead. So many wounds were recovered with a decent armour save, very good RP and then rerolling 1's on the RP. Then the Triarch Praetorians roll up, getting their reroll everything courtesy of the Triarch Stalkers and murder entire units with their AP2 weaponry.

I honestly do not know how to beat this army without making a dedicated counter list, which I do not like doing.

 Diggory_x wrote:
I honestly do not know how to beat this army without making a dedicated counter list, which I do not like doing.

I believe the Triarch Stalker formation was taken just to counter your Grey Knights so you faced a tailored list. Otherwise preference is given for Canoptek Harvest.

Also, in a decurion it's pretty impossible to spam Doomsday Arks. So my point about Crons struggling with terminator armies still stands.

 Soteks Prophet wrote:
Why do you not feel comfortable? It doesn't matter you spend a small fortune on it so you shouldn't have to justify it, 40k is limited by how much cheese you can get away with anyway and when the next round of codexes come you will be nerfbatted anyway.

Unless you have Orks as your native army. In which case you'll just have to continue praying to Gork or Mork that you'll be given something good.

Realistically though, Necrons DID have a good codex prior to 7th ed. It held up well to the power creeping Tau and Eldar. And you had the option to field silly amounts of cheese.

A new codex doesn't always mean the previous one will drop in power. Tau and Eldar have (at least IMO) been the Kings and Queens (respectively) of competitive 40k for a very long time now. A longer time than most other armies at least.

I don't expect Necrons to drop in power any time soon. They're too resiliant just now. So unless they recieve a nerf in an FaQ (which doesn't happen often), I think they'll be here to stay for a while.

Otherwise I would hope that several of the "weaker" codexes to recieve a drastic boost via another suppliment or what-have-you.

Struggle with terminator armies? Flayed Ones.

 Diggory_x wrote:
Reanimation protocols is borderline broken now. It was pretty powerful in the previous dex but the changes made in this edition have buffed it when it wasn't needed. They are soooo durable now.

I played a couple games at the weekend against crons and while I admit that I think crons are a bit of a counter to grey knights, I just could not keep the crons dead. So many wounds were recovered with a decent armour save, very good RP and then rerolling 1's on the RP. Then the Triarch Praetorians roll up, getting their reroll everything courtesy of the Triarch Stalkers and murder entire units with their AP2 weaponry.

I honestly do not know how to beat this army without making a dedicated counter list, which I do not like doing.

It's pretty funny, actually, that everyone who wants Crons nerfed said they should just make RP a FNP-like save. Now, everyone seems to think otherwise. >.>

 krodarklorr wrote:
It's pretty funny, actually, that everyone who wants Crons nerfed said they should just make RP a FNP-like save. Now, everyone seems to think otherwise. >.>

I would bet that most of those folks were thinking a 5+ save, not 4+ stacked with rerolling 1s stacked with 3+ invul on some units.

Sketchyfk wrote:

A new codex doesn't always mean the previous one will drop in power. Tau and Eldar have (at least IMO) been the Kings and Queens (respectively) of competitive 40k for a very long time now. A longer time than most other armies at least.

Tau? Really? They were in 6th edition but before then? Tau got the buff that they deserved since they had two awful codices before. Grey Knights have dominated the tournament scene for longer than Tau...

 JimOnMars wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:
It's pretty funny, actually, that everyone who wants Crons nerfed said they should just make RP a FNP-like save. Now, everyone seems to think otherwise. >.>

I would bet that most of those folks were thinking a 5+ save, not 4+ stacked with rerolling 1s stacked with 3+ invul on some units.

...and suddenly everyone getting RP, e.g. Wraiths.

 Sigvatr wrote:

 JimOnMars wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:
It's pretty funny, actually, that everyone who wants Crons nerfed said they should just make RP a FNP-like save. Now, everyone seems to think otherwise. >.>

I would bet that most of those folks were thinking a 5+ save, not 4+ stacked with rerolling 1s stacked with 3+ invul on some units.

...and suddenly everyone getting RP, e.g. Wraiths.

Wraiths only get it using one specific formation and if you kill the Spider they lose it, and if you do wounds before they get their first turn they die like before (since RP can't kick in until their turn when they choose which rule they have). Also if the Wraiths ever get outside of that 12" bubble they lose it immediately until they get back in. Yes, it's strong, but it's not permanent or unstoppable.

Also that re-rolling 1s is only in 12" of your warlord and only applies to the Reclamation Legion. Wraiths don't get to benefit from it, neither do things like the Royal Court or Deathmarks.

I have been going back and forth about the new Necrons and I have been paying attention to all the Bat Reps coming out with them in it. It is definitely stong codex and one that could go to reign supreme but I am curbing my knee jerk reaction to say that they are completely overpowered. There is a way to counter them and it did shift the meta a great but I think it will take some time before we finally release how to best to counter Necrons. For me, I have been cooking up a bunch of counter strategies for them that won't take a full re-engineering of my lists just a different set of tactics. They are tough as nails but I don't think they are impossible to beat.

To the OP, I also was thinking of starting Necrons but with the wave of popularity they are about to get, I backed off because I didn't want to seem like I was jumping on the band wagon. I love their fluff and one thing I love about their codex the most is the fact that you can make a fluffy army while remaining tactically sound that excites me the most but I think I will wait for the hype to die down before I consider starting them. I too don't like being that guy.

The new Necron book is very tough but with the Decurion detachment I have been beaten by Nids and came to a draw against Dark Eldar. The Nids swarmed me with bodies so I was physically unable to place models on the objectives (seriously who spawns 42 gants with a tervigon) and the DE player used his speed to pick apart the army. That wraith formation doesn't mean diddly when your spyder gets blown to bits turn one. So while Crons certainly are much tougher they don't have nearly the killing power of some armies out there.

It's just a really good codex, there's nothing really gakky and there's two or more units that are super amazing.

I'm still taking Annihilation barges.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:

 JimOnMars wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:
It's pretty funny, actually, that everyone who wants Crons nerfed said they should just make RP a FNP-like save. Now, everyone seems to think otherwise. >.>

I would bet that most of those folks were thinking a 5+ save, not 4+ stacked with rerolling 1s stacked with 3+ invul on some units.

...and suddenly everyone getting RP, e.g. Wraiths.

Wraiths only get it using one specific formation and if you kill the Spider they lose it, and if you do wounds before they get their first turn they die like before (since RP can't kick in until their turn when they choose which rule they have). Also if the Wraiths ever get outside of that 12" bubble they lose it immediately until they get back in. Yes, it's strong, but it's not permanent or unstoppable.

Also that re-rolling 1s is only in 12" of your warlord and only applies to the Reclamation Legion. Wraiths don't get to benefit from it, neither do things like the Royal Court or Deathmarks.

Well, the wraiths don't actually immediately lose rp until their movement phase after they're outside the 12" bubble from the spyder, or the spyder is dead.

Also "just kill the spyder" is a phrase our group has started making fun of as a "hasn't actually played against them" signal. Spyders in intervening model cover behind their own wraiths with RP turned on can tank ridiculous punishment for a 50 point model. Mwg just did a batrep where a GK stormraven caught one totally out of cover, and he unloaded multimelta, assault cannon, and as many missiles as he could into it. Did 1 wound. 200 point models full of heavy weapons should not have a problem taking out one 50 point model, but here we are.

And of course it's not unstoppable. As long as it doesn't auto kill the enemy army without a die roll on turn 1, it IS possible to lose with it. Just not very likely.