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Hi I like the DA very much but since they were the first to get a codex in 6th ed I think many units need an update.

What would you like to change? Units that are weak, not competitive and not used. How could you boost them.

Nephilim Jetfighter, Dark talon, Dark Shroud land speeder....

Is there units and weapons and war gear that other space marines have that they should have or not?

Grav guns, Hunter/Stalker AA tanks... ?

Grim resolve is it a good chapter tactics compered to other chapters. ?

Here is some opinions i have about thinks that needs a change. More will follow...

Company Veterans Squad - no one takes them any upgrade that make them viable.... Some kind of Sternguard ammo?
Given some special rule?

Nephilim Jetfighter and Dark Talon needs point decrease. I think Black sword missils could be S7 for better anti-air and anti-armour...
The Stasi bomb need some improvement. Maybe a area that becomes slowed down with troops only moving at half speed or something..
And that dark rift cannon need some improvement... maybe like the eldar distortion a Instant death on a 6.

Deathwing terminators - Not very bad, but I think they might be to expensive 44p. Usually terminators are taken out with lots AP 2. I think they are a little bit overpriced. Maybe if you could give them 2 heavy weapons for 5 models... make them more effective at shooting. Or make there Storm bolters assault 3 on the Deathwing assault.

Land Speeder Vengeance - very fragile. Take away get hot. Point decrease. Maybe put it in a squadron with other Land speeders.
Maybe together with Dark Shroud.

I would like to see Squadrons with Whirlwinds, Stalkers and Hunters.

Are the raven wing unites to expensive? What about characters? Artefacts?

The flyers are overcosted by 20 points, the plasma land speeder by 60, and the Raven wing should get the teleport homers for free, instead of each one paying for them individually. The shrouded land speeder needs to be lowered about 15 points, or give out shrouded in the bubble. Don't give them the new AA, just make the current AA a viable threat.

The Nephilim is at least fifty points too expensive (durability-wise if nothing else); drop it to 150ish and make the main gun and missiles S7/AP3 and it becomes a credible interceptor. Arguments about Terminators can and have lasted pages; 4++ base, drop the price and start them with power weapons instead of fists, let them have two upgrade weapons per five, and Sternguard ammo are the most sane options.

1.The Dark Talon needs some serious beefing up. It needs to be the anti-infantry to the Nephillim's anti-vehicle.

2. Drop the price of all flyers as well.

3. Give them access to stormravens, maybe even give it a plasma storm battery turret

4. Apply the previously mentioned terminator buffs.

5. Give veterans special ammo.

6.Buff relics

7. Make the sword of secrets AP2 or make lion's fury rapid fire and give it infinite use

8. The Landspeeder vengeance needs some buffing, increase its armour or give it some other kind of protection in order to make it worth it

9. A new ravenwing predator, kind of like a predator executioner with overcharged engines

natpri771 wrote:
1.The Dark Talon needs some serious beefing up. It needs to be the anti-infantry to the Nephillim's anti-vehicle.

2. Drop the price of all flyers as well.

3. Give them access to stormravens, maybe even give it a plasma storm battery turret

4. Apply the previously mentioned terminator buffs.

5. Give veterans special ammo.

6.Buff relics

7. Make the sword of secrets AP2 or make lion's fury rapid fire and give it infinite use

8. The Landspeeder vengeance needs some buffing, increase its armour or give it some other kind of protection in order to make it worth it

9. A new ravenwing predator, kind of like a predator executioner with overcharged engines

there is a ravenwing predator already it's called a nephilim, tbh I'd just make the neph av13 as that's all that separates it from a predator with tllc and hb sponsons.

Anyway I'd totally rework our warlord traits, our relics, price cuts all over the gd place. I'd end pure wing armies completely, no alternative force org or detachment tables just wipe put pure deathwing and pure ravens as a viable option on the table.

I'd price cut belial by about 35 points, sammy by another 30-40 points, azreal moves to Lord of war and allows you to take a single squad of terminators or bikes as troops (you must choose). He gains a teleport homer.

Asmodai gains the ability to buy a jump pack and the blades of reason move up to s+1 ap4/instant death, Ezekiel gains a 4+ invul.

Deathwing vehicle upgrades fall by 5 points

Scouts gains the ability to buy plasma guns in their squad (cause they need more options their so under developed in our codex potential wise).

Dwcs gets its apothecary fixed

The power field generator returns to normal but is now a relic

The banner of sauce are reworked

Basically everything needs a serious facelift for it to be in line with current books. However that will never happen because the calling card of dark angels is awesome models backed by the worst rules in history. Ever since codex angels of death we've been getting dumped on by gw. we are the ying to elders yang who have known no other life than being a top tier army book. And this cycle has always been there and will never change.

 ionusx wrote:
there is a ravenwing predator already it's called a nephilim, tbh I'd just make the neph av13 as that's all that separates it from a predator with tllc and hb sponsons.

Absolutely not. There's a good reason Flyers cap out at AV12 on any one facing.

I was thinking about the Chaplin and Interrogator Chaplin - they seems to have a too high point cost. I have never used them nor seen anyone use them. So I don't know.
Any suggestions? Experience?

I think the Interrogator Chaplin should have some more special buff ability - 6" LD bubble ? - Fear? - Crusader.
Some benefit if he or the squad he's in captures (kills) a character. Victory point or -1 to reserve rolls or something... or choosing side where reserves appears.

Maybe a Chaplin could take a grav gun? They are suppose to be keeper of relics...

I don't think grav gun should be army wide.

I think veterans should be abel to be given some special rule to make them more viable like choose from crusader, scout, infiltrate, outflank, preferred enemy, monster hunter, stealth.
Dark angels are suppose to be vey good at planing and tactics. That should be part of the rules in the army list.





Automatically Appended Next Post:
I think Samael, Azrael and Belial will be toned down maybe a little cheaper like suggested. I don't think they will unlock RW and DW as troops anymore.

I think they will make a Ravenwing formation with lot of FA slots - and maybe a HQ one bike and maybe a RW command Sq.

And they will make a Deathwing formation with a lot of Elite slots - maybe lead by HQ in terminator armour and maybe a DW command Sq.

I think the Command sq might be moved to elite like in the Blood angel codex.

Maybe veteran Sgt could be equipped with a Auspex.

TDA + Storm bolter = 2/4 Salvo and Twinlinked at half range of Stormbolters or out to 12 inches.

CML gets flakk missiles for free.

Drop cost of Belial by 20 and allow him to use Deathwing knight gear for free.

Whirlwind/Dreadnought/Dark talon/Nephilim/Dark shroud/Vengance can be taken in squads up to 3.

DDT's
Deathwing Devastator Terminators
Follows similar rules to regular Devastator squads -combat squad and uses DW weaponary instead, cant pick assault gear uses heavy slot, for every heavy weapon may add an CML to the squad for extra cost. can fire all weapons, cant put two CML's on the same guy.

Where to start? DA don't have any unique role. We should have the best Termiators in the game, pity we don't.

1) Deathwing. If they are expensive, make them unique. allow them to assault on the turn they deepstrike in on. That would entirely change the game, and make people fear the DWA!

1B) Allow us to DWA whenever we want, not just 1st / 2nd turn. Why not leave some for 3rd etc when you might need them?

2) Make Belial Cheaper, or give him a better role with tactical precision - I.E, any DW units that deepstrike with 12" of him do not scatter, 24" suffer 1/2 distance scattering etc. I mean, he's the Grand Master of the deathwing, but can only lead his squad, and not guys striking more than 6" from him? Pfftt, and allow it to work from when he arrives, not just if he was there from the previous turn.

3) Give us SOMETHING anti flyer. I mean, seriously.

4) Get rid of our flyers, or completely restat them. They suck.

5) Free Drop pod for Venerable Dreads, as they will obviously be dropping in with the Terminators! And see above, allowing them to assault on turn of arrival.

FEAR THE DEATHWING ASSAULT!

 Phoenix-Nyx wrote:
I was thinking about the Chaplin and Interrogator Chaplin - they seems to have a too high point cost. I have never used them nor seen anyone use them. So I don't know.
Any suggestions? Experience?

I think the Interrogator Chaplin should have some more special buff ability - 6" LD bubble ? - Fear? - Crusader.
Some benefit if he or the squad he's in captures (kills) a character. Victory point or -1 to reserve rolls or something... or choosing side where reserves appears.

Maybe a Chaplin could take a grav gun? They are suppose to be keeper of relics...

I don't think grav gun should be army wide.

I think veterans should be abel to be given some special rule to make them more viable like choose from crusader, scout, infiltrate, outflank, preferred enemy, monster hunter, stealth.
Dark angels are suppose to be vey good at planing and tactics. That should be part of the rules in the army list.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
I think Samael, Azrael and Belial will be toned down maybe a little cheaper like suggested. I don't think they will unlock RW and DW as troops anymore.

I think they will make a Ravenwing formation with lot of FA slots - and maybe a HQ one bike and maybe a RW command Sq.

And they will make a Deathwing formation with a lot of Elite slots - maybe lead by HQ in terminator armour and maybe a DW command Sq.

I think the Command sq might be moved to elite like in the Blood angel codex.

Maybe veteran Sgt could be equipped with a Auspex.

I use my Int Chaplin exclusively and I find the points to be ok IMO. The IC comes with a lot of bonuses. I see where you are going though. The more you dig into the points you see that basically DA was pointed to play against chaos. The Hatred stuff ends up being a big deal when facing them.

DA codex might be here soon I wonder what change will come? And what new unites - rumours about a new tac squad and a Chaplain. New Ravenwing bikes would also be nice... Looking at the new Eldar codex - they seems to have tried to adjust some of the unites people complained about like - Wave serpent and Banshees. What gives hope for the Dark angel codex...

My predictions:

I think Nephilim and Dark talons will see reductions in point. Maybe even the rift canon could be turned in to a D-weapon?

Banners will be reworked with different cost.

Some minor change to special characters for points and rules. No more making Ravenwing and Deathwing troops by Azrael, Belial, Samael.

Some kind of point reduction for LS Vengeance and Dark shroud. Maybe some rule change or maybe included in LS squadrons.
Or they will receive a special formation with a some special buff.

Some smal buff to the veterans.

Deathwing knights and deathwing terminators - might get some kind of minor change...

Deathwing and ravening special detachments with more slots for elite or FA. ?

I see alot of ridiculous suggestions here.

- NO, overcharged engines are a BA only thing. DA shouldn't get them.
- Make Black knights 2 points cheaper, give them back assault 18 plasma talon maybe make it assault 3. (skitarii have an assault 3 plasma gun... comon)
- I agree with the DWT changes, I'd say 190 points base would make them much better, with just the way they are now.
- DWK 215 points base,
- Our relics are ok, just rework the shroud of heros, (like.. 25pts or something) and the monster slayer. (make it 50/50 for less points)
- Azreal LoW, keep as he is, give an AP2 sword and eternal warrior- 225 points.
Sammeal- 180pts, remains the same
Belial- 170 points, remains the same.

DA are all about terminators and bikes, the greenwing are just fodder, I feel if ANY army keeps "take X as troops" DA are the ones that should be allowed to.

 Phoenix-Nyx wrote:
I was thinking about the Chaplin and Interrogator Chaplin - they seems to have a too high point cost. I have never used them nor seen anyone use them. So I don't know.
Any suggestions? Experience?

Interrogator-Chaplains are Captains (almost literally, you're only giving up a single WS) that buff their squads. He comes default with a power maul, and is only 20 points more expensive than a Captain. So, you're only paying 5 points to grant zealot.

Stick one with some black knights, and laugh as you hit-and-run so you can charge again to maintain your Hatred bonus. Interrogator-Chaplains are amazing.

Drop the dakka banner n fnp banner and we can negotiate these changes buddy. ..

Everything. Literally.

I am already stockpiling Assault Cannons for all my Ravenwing and stocking up on Black Knights and DW Knights for when they get access to D weaponry.

I am basing this on people here saying the newest release is the new standard. Can't wait

Just give DWKs S D in Smite mode, lol.

Well, if you think that a 27 point eldar jetbike gets 4 shot, it could be fair that a 40 point Terminator come with an assault cannon.

ANy Terminator though.

200 points and you get 5 Termies with 5 AC. Thats would be balaced with the xenos !

For serious:I for one want some chapter taics regarding plasma weapons and overall price reduction for Terminators, bikes and flyers.

And personal grudge: make ML for our librarian cost 25 like everyone else!

Make amend for our inner circle rules to have prefered enemy agains daemonkin's non daemon models.

 Filch wrote:
Drop the dakka banner n fnp banner and we can negotiate these changes buddy. ..

Yes, because those obviously are too good. Are you serious? Nobody is afraid of more Bolter Shots...

 Reinokarite wrote:
For serious:I for one want some chapter taics regarding plasma weapons and overall price reduction for Terminators, bikes and flyers.

And personal grudge: make ML for our librarian cost 25 like everyone else!

Make amend for our inner circle rules to have prefered enemy agains daemonkin's non daemon models.

I agree 100% with this.

So many good suggestions in this thread. I know that this will never ever happen but in order to keep up with the power creep (massive leaps tbh) would be to buff DW terminators in a big way. You don't need to reduce the price at all, just replace storm bolters with assault cannons and we're done. Would hardly be overpowered compared to those cancerous jetbikes. If DW assault wil still be a thing I just can't help but smile at the thought of 20 to 40 twin-linked assault cannon shots after deep strike. Jetbikes with scatter lasers would still be waaaaaay better though, which is a really sad thing. Buffing the stats to T5, 2 wounds and 4++ might be enough to keep up with the current trend. And again, definitely no price increase with these changes. If the points cost were to change, it would have to decrease, EVEN WITH these buffs.

DW knights smite mode strenght D because reasons. Give these guys the ability to assault from deep strike and then we're talking. Same stat changes as above, no price increase.

Paying extra for the Libby mastery level seems to be some idiotic Divination tax and should go away ASAP.

Chapter (Legion really) tactics that enable us to reroll or ignore gets hot would be pretty sweet indeed but I don't think it's going to happen.

A lot of these buffs are good ideas and I'm sure that GW will use these... in the NEXT Eldar codex.

 Lammikkovalas wrote:


Paying extra for the Libby mastery level seems to be some idiotic Divination tax and should go away ASAP.

I don't know where this idea came from because the second codex to drop after Dark Angels had access to Divination (chaos demons, btw) and it was only 25 a mastery level.

It's just that Dark Angels were the first book that had Mastery levels in it, and they priced it poorly and fixed it with the very next book (Chaos Marines). You can still roll on Divination as just ML1 after all so taxing it on the backend doesn't make any sense, even for GW.

 Lammikkovalas wrote:

 Reinokarite wrote:
For serious:I for one want some chapter taics regarding plasma weapons and overall price reduction for Terminators, bikes and flyers.

And personal grudge: make ML for our librarian cost 25 like everyone else!

Make amend for our inner circle rules to have prefered enemy agains daemonkin's non daemon models.

I agree 100% with this.

So many good suggestions in this thread. I know that this will never ever happen but in order to keep up with the power creep (massive leaps tbh) would be to buff DW terminators in a big way. You don't need to reduce the price at all, just replace storm bolters with assault cannons and we're done. Would hardly be overpowered compared to those cancerous jetbikes. If DW assault wil still be a thing I just can't help but smile at the thought of 20 to 40 twin-linked assault cannon shots after deep strike. Jetbikes with scatter lasers would still be waaaaaay better though, which is a really sad thing. Buffing the stats to T5, 2 wounds and 4++ might be enough to keep up with the current trend. And again, definitely no price increase with these changes. If the points cost were to change, it would have to decrease, EVEN WITH these buffs.

DW knights smite mode strenght D because reasons. Give these guys the ability to assault from deep strike and then we're talking. Same stat changes as above, no price increase.

Paying extra for the Libby mastery level seems to be some idiotic Divination tax and should go away ASAP.

Chapter (Legion really) tactics that enable us to reroll or ignore gets hot would be pretty sweet indeed but I don't think it's going to happen.

A lot of these buffs are good ideas and I'm sure that GW will use these... in the NEXT Eldar codex.

please no.

 raiden wrote:


please no.

I'd be a lot happier if I still thought that some massive buffs would be out of place. It just seems to me that the battle is lost and the only way you can counter the cheese is by cheesing back even harder. And if you're going to cheese you might as well do it with style - hence terminators.

But to be honest, we don't even need any changes to the DA codex in order to stand a chance in competitive play with the models that we already have. The solution is deceptively simple:

I also predict that they will make a new psychic discipline for Dark angels.

and similar ML cost for librarians like other space marines. Like many mentioned here.

Possible some small point reductions to Deathwing terminators and Ravenwing bikers.

I want DA datacards set, most of all want to have Mind Worm Psychik power card)

 AnomanderRake wrote:

 ionusx wrote:
there is a ravenwing predator already it's called a nephilim, tbh I'd just make the neph av13 as that's all that separates it from a predator with tllc and hb sponsons.

Absolutely not. There's a good reason Flyers cap out at AV12 on any one facing.

I'd prefer for it to have some kind of truly unique characteristic, instead of being not much more than a rubbish version of the Stormtalon. And Vendettas and suchlike won't have a completely huge problem hurting AV 13.

On the note of grav-weapons I think it is nit needed chapter tactics for plasma and special ammunition on our veterans will be more then enaugh, even if it will be only vengeance bolts as we are used ti massed gets hot anyway.

Hello. I realize I'm probably joining this thread a bit late but I wanted to share a few of my thoughts regarding this subject. Being a die hard DA fan myself this is a topic close to my heart, so to speak. So here goes:

Starting with the name HQ choices, most if not all of the named HQ's are overpriced, with 1 or 2 exceptions (Ezekiel and Amsodai), however Asmodai to me is a very weak choice for an HQ and not worth fielding in any circumstance. This may just be my opinion but he is a waste and should be removed from the codex all together. However back to my original point, for what they do Azrael, Sammael and Belial are all over priced. First Azrael at a whopping 215 (now costs more then Mephiston) doesn't even have eternal warrior and he IS the Supreme Chapter Master! He has some slightly decent relics but why does his armor give him only a 6+ Feel No Pain, why not the standard 5+? His combi-plasma is okay and then we look at his sword profile, only +2 to str. and only AP: 3 master-crafted. This is the Grand Master's weapon, it should be better. I can give a company master the Mace of Redemption for 30 pts. (+3 str. Blind, Bane of the Traitor, Concussive AP: 3), artificier armor or a bike for Tough 5 and already he's better than Azrael not mention lower cost. Moving on to Sammael, 200 pts. to make your bike squads (not black knights) troops which is a good thing but that alone is not worth 200 pts. So if he uses Corvex it has a twin-linked stormbolter (weak) and a plasma cannon (so you can get hot and kill yourself). Now Sammy does have eternal but what for?! He's already tough 5 so unless you're getting hit with a str 10 weapon (usually only demons hit that hard) or a force instant kill hit both of those attacks usually happen in melee and Sammael has no business being locked in melee. Not when all he's armed with is a user str AP: 2 sword (oh wait it's master-crafted). Now on to Belial, this is the only named HQ in the book with options and they're not anything that amazing. Basically you can switch out his storm bolter and sword for lightning claws or a thunder hammer/storm shield combo which I would not do unless you run him alone and that is a REALLY bad idea. He makes your termies troops, awesome, but don't get too excited because for 190 pts. thats heavy. Now when deep striking Belial and his unit never scatter and neither does any unit that lands with 6 inches of him but he has to be on the board at the begin of the turn for that to work. What kind of epic fail is that! Thanks GW! Going back to his weapons, as stated earlier he can swap out his storm bolter which would then make his Tactical Precision rule useless (precision shots on a 5+) and his sword which once again is not the best close combat weapon user str, AP: 3 master-crafted, fleshbane well that's something. Ezekiel; as a psyker he pales in comparison to others such as Meph or Tiggy but he does have a pretty cool ability - Mind Worm R:12"/ S:4/ AP:2 Assualt d3, Ignore cover, SAP WILL! Sap Will lowers the targets WS, BS, Initiative and Leadership by 3 for each unsaved wound. Sweet! But then we take a look at his wargear and frown. Artificier armor, NO INVUL SAVE whatsoever! so throw him in a squad, not termies because he can't deep strike with them because if not he'll die quicker than you can say "For the Emperor!". And once again user str sword AP:3 only 2 handed, so no extra attack. All that for 145 pts. which isn't so bad but with no options, limited mobility (slow) and weak defenses he's not a great choice. Now the reason I focus so much on making these guys better is because I believe they should personify to some degree what written in the fluff and the fluff says these guys like to beat up demons for kicks and giggles. Not so much in the game. Throwing any one of these HQ's into close combat with a demon is basically committing suicide. Anyway, nuff said about them. Moving on to some of the units now.

It's my opinion that much of the dark angels army has one fatal flaw and that is that all of their special tactics and maneuvers are bubble. All of the banners worth taking are 6 to 12 inch range and expensive too. Points wise the DA are quite expensive to put it mildly.
Banner of Fortitude - 85pts! 12 inch bubble range grants Feel No Pain to all. Costly.
Banner of Devastation - 65 pts. only 6 inch bubble range. Now this is a great banner to use because it makes all BOLTERS, JUST BOLTERS (boo!) within the range 2/4 salvo. This banner is supremely popular with Ravenwing and rightly so. It is ideal for bikers with twin-linked bolters. What is NOT ideal is creating a huge blob of bikes for any army with templates, especially templates that ignore cover, to have easy targets. Believe me Grey Knights, Tau and many other armies salivate when they see units bunched together like this tactic requires you to do.
Lastly the Banner of Retribution - Least popular of all the standards. Costs 45pts. Grants counter-attack to all within 12 inches. I've never used it.

Chapter Relics: There are only 2 that come to mind that are worth the points, Mace of Redemption (+3 str. AP: 3 only useable by an HQ) and Halberd of Caliban (+2 str. AP: 2 only useable by a Deathwing Champion in a DW command squad).

With that being mentioned let move on to Deathwing; SUPER expensive which most termies are as well as slow. Deathwing Assault, Vengeful Strike, and Deep Strike which is great its risky if they scatter and mishap plus if you don't give these boys Thunder Hammer/ Storm Shield combos you can pretty much kiss there bulky butts goodbye by the end of turn 2. I have seen terminators time and time again (mostly my termies) drop like flies to concentration of fire because as we all know boys and girls focus fire is how you bring down any unit in this game so without that extra survivability from the Storm Shields they're just cannon fodder. Of course if you do give them TH/SS combos say goodbye to your shooting attacks which means no Vengeful Strike upon deep striking in that 1st turn. Here again we see that these tactics were not given much thought because one will ultimately hinder or even cancel the other.

Okay now let's take a look at the elite within the elite, Deathwing Knights. These guys are supposed to be the cream of the crop but let's just take a peek at their rules and gear. First the gear, they all have Maces of Absolution - normally +2 str (nice!) AP: 4 (huh?) Concussive, Bane of the traitor or you can go into Smite mode - +6 str (WHAT?!) AP: 2 (YEAH!) Concussive, Bane of the Traitor Pretty freakin awesome right? Here comes the catch, One Use Only . The Knight Master (sergeant) uses Flail of the Unforgiven +2 str. AP: 3 meh! Well let's look at their rules. They're DW so they can Deep Strike turn 1 or 2 (their choice), Hammer of Wrath (not bad), Fortress of Shields - Tough 5 when in base contact with two or more DW Knights (there's that bubble tactics again) and You Cannot Hide - Can make precision strikes. So ideally you have to wait for an opportune moment to use Smite Mode on a priority target with these guys assuming they live to see that moment. I think I'll stick with my TH/SS termies and their solid str 8 attacks (ALL THE TIME, not just ONE USE ONLY). Finally, they may choose to take perfidious relic of the unforgiven, just gives them adamantium will and fear. All that for 235. 245 if you take the relic. Like I said, I'll take my normal termies.

Another elite unit are the Ravenwing Black Knights. These guys are no normal bikers. Quite possibly the best unit in the codex they come in 3's with plasma talons on their bikes - str 7/ AP: 2 rapid fire, twin-linked, gets hot guns. These plasma guns are incredible. the twin-linked has save me several times from a gets hot roll. For melee they have corvus hammers - str +1/ no AP sadly but rending! (nice!), Frag and Krak grenades, teleport homers. Special rules; Scout, Skilled Rider, Hit and Run, Grim Resolve and they have options. As it stands right now Ravenwing are the most viable units in the codex. Fast, good options, decent rules and with the Banner of Devastation pretty damn shooty. yet even Ravenwing still needs a lot of help. Defensively they are lacking so to somewhat make up for this enter the Darkshroud, 2 to be precise. I used to run with just one to save on points but it's only 80 pts and it's a Landspeeder so it can be killed with enough effort. Thankfully it won't be easy. This Landspeeder has Shroud, Jink and gives stealth to everyone within 6" (ugh! bubble ugh!). Luckily taking 2 and with proper positioning you can extend the range of the bubble. Even after all that any army that ignores cover virtually rapes Ravenwing face.

The rest of the units are basically vanilla marines (very vanilla). Our Company Veterans (our version of Sternguard) don't have the specialty ammo that other Chapters have. Our Assault Marines don't have many options. Devastators are a solid unit IN MULTIPLES but once you start taking heavy weapons they get pricey. Dreadnoughts are only good if they're Venerable (and IN MULTIPLES) but so much not for the re-roll on the on the vehicle damage table but for the extra WS and BS. I love Interrogator-Chaplains I take them whenever possible or Company Masters. Any units worth taking should be taken in MULTIPLES...ALWAYS.

In summary, DA could really use an overhaul from top to bottom, starting with making everything more cost efficient all the way to making them more viable, useful and overall better. I feel it necessary to say that this post was not to trash DA. I love DA and thats why I want to see them get better. Thanks.

I'm pretty new to 40k and have only been playing for about 3 months, but after reading the rumours of a new DA codex at some point this year it got me thinking about the book. Some of my initial thought's below;

• Ezekiel's 2 handed force sword - what’s the point? It should either have an STR bonus (like all of the 2 handed weapons in the game, that I've seen) or just be 1 handed.
• Comparing the Nephilim Jet Fighter to the other Space Marine flyers, it feels like it should be 20-30 points cheaper.
• We should have the option on the Dark Angels special characters to field them in Terminator Armour - you read about these awesome lore stories with the named characters donning their ancient terminator armour and teleporting in with the Deathwing to dispense the emperor's wrath but you can't re-create this on the battle field. Additionally, Space Marines are meant to be the most tactically flexible force in the game, yet the special characters a shoe-horned into 1 particular role or load out.
• Can we have Storm Shields in the wargear list and not just be a Company Master option? Also, can we have the ability to field Belial with his Sword of Silence & a Storm Shield?
• Will the Dark Angels get access to grav weapons?
• Will the Dark Angels get access to Centurions? And will they be Deathwing?
• Deathwing points cost needs to be looked at.
• Weapon options for the Landspeeder Vengance - turret options to replace the plasma storm battery such as a lascannon battery would be fluffy and useful.
• The Blade of Caliban is unwieldy, why would anyone ever take is over a power axe/fist? - should just a +1STR power sword.
• Terrormancy psychic discipline for the Dark Angels Chapter would be fluffy and fun.
• The wording on the last Dark Angels Update forbids Deathwing Sergeants from swapping their Storm Bolter/Power Sword for assault weapons.
• Tank Squadrons for Whirlwinds.

Reading this thread it looks as though I've missed a lot of the issues you guys have with the DA. But like I said, I'm quite new to 40k and don't have a lot of games under my belt.