Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 EngulfedObject wrote:

 Brennonjw wrote:
oh yeah, I suppose DA should be up for debate as well, with the whole imma kill my friends so no one knows that i have a secret.

Hi, do you have a spare minute?

Spoiler:

why? you gonna loose me like you did with cypher?

Not the Blood Angels. That's for sure.

Jimsolo wrote:Carcharodons ARE near the top, in my opinion. Marines Malevolent and Grey Knights are also strong contenders.

The Space Sharks aren't so bad. You just have to be really specific with your instructions to them.

"They told us to create a distraction."
"Let's blow up the entire planet. That will be really distracting."

 Veteran Sergeant wrote:

Jimsolo wrote:Carcharodons ARE near the top, in my opinion. Marines Malevolent and Grey Knights are also strong contenders.

The Space Sharks aren't so bad. You just have to be really specific with your instructions to them.

"They told us to create a distraction."
"Let's blow up the entire planet. That will be really distracting."

Haha, quoting for truth.

Space Wolves, by dooming all of humanity to Chaos by not following the orders of the only organizations that hold Chaos at bay (the Ecclesiarchy and the Inquisition).

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
Space Wolves, by dooming all of humanity to Chaos by not following the orders of the only organizations that hold Chaos at bay (the Ecclesiarchy and the Inquisition).

bah! you just want easy killing of loyal guardsmen inquisitor

Edit: Wrong thread

You know with regards to what the Marines Malevolent did, I can actually see that as basically just a tuesday in the grimdark universe.

In the 40k Rulebook theres actually a statement:
‘There can be no bystanders in the battle for survival. Anyone who will not fight by your side is an enemy you must crush.’

I'm not saying it's right, certainly not morally, but we judge their actions with morality we've learned in our own world, not theirs. Their reality is a narrative both harsher and darker, more prone to extremes and more exacting than our own.

If I could consider chaos as an infestation, a taint, or an epidemic/pandemic in terms of something we could actually compare, and I further consider the blinkered uncompromising nature of the imperium as they turn away from and try as hard as they can "not" to understand it's spread, it's symptoms or any possible search for a cure, then at that point I can also completely justify (by the imperial blinkered standards) what the Grey Knights were doing to the people they believed exposed to chaos taint when the Space Wolves stopped them as well. The Space Wolves actions could be construed as the very thing that gets everyone killed by ebola/chaos flu, and in comparing real situations are exactly the opposite of the people we would ever want or allow to be in charge of our own CDC.

My point really is that the extreme measures in the imperium are that of a society that does not try to "understand" chaos, they simply exterminate it. That's the way the whole grimdark universe has been written. Judging by our own more moral realistic standards, doesn't really feel very compelling in regards to a truly dark setting.

Now if you wanna talk about the Dark Angels being dirt bags, that I can see. We don't deal with the Inquisition. We disappear them. What? Were you saying something??? I'm sorry, I really can't hear you over the sound of my own team killing right now. I'll get back to you.

And that's why I love them Dark Angels.

My Marines Malevolent would be happy to comment on these statements...if they were not busy killing the enemies of mankind..and not giving hugs to refugees, and posing for glamour shots, our combat record is impeccable (barring the macharian travesty which we bathed in xenos blood to atone for), and success speaks for itself..cries for inquisition censure and such have gone mostly unheeded...since our methods are very similar to theirs...while others in these dark days cling to outmoded notions of "brotherly conduct"..we have decided that the ends justify the means..and human survival at all costs...if that hurts the feelings of other chapters..so be it.
And as to our intensive salvage and reclamation protocols...our combat tempo is so high the levies the mechanicum send us is inadequate to our needs..so we adapt and overcome.


(note this is in the spirit of my Marines Malevolent concept, and head canon of course)

and yes they are my go to force for empire on empire battles...I love the tears of rage and rearhurtness from my marine opponents

The problem with the Marines Malevolent isn't just that they target civilians, they actively engage in piracy against the Adeptus Mechanicus.

 Wyzilla wrote:
The problem with the Marines Malevolent isn't just that they target civilians, they actively engage in piracy against the Adeptus Mechanicus.

Sources please..would love to read that...since i despise the tech hoarding toaster worshiping zealots.

 Brennonjw wrote:
why? you gonna loose me like you did with cypher?

Cy-cypher you say? Uh... we don't know who you're talking about. But you've had contact with this person you say? Okay, we will be right back, please stay put.

 Soo'Vah'Cha wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:
The problem with the Marines Malevolent isn't just that they target civilians, they actively engage in piracy against the Adeptus Mechanicus.

Sources please..would love to read that...since i despise the tech hoarding toaster worshiping zealots.

...That's not a good thing. That proves you're a massive slow who is actively trying to commit suicide given that the Adeptus Mechanicus is how Chapters get most of their tech and ships. Severing contact dooms you ultimately to destruction unless you mange to repair relations. But being an incompetent moron is not a positive character trait. It's in the Salamanders books. Also, instead of immediately executing a squad of Astartes heavily mutated by the Chaos Obliterator virus, he sent them to go kill the Salamanders.

In short, the Marines Malevolent will be dead in a very short period of time. Either by the Minotaurs paying them a visit or simply withering away due to a lack of any resources. They're already more or less renegades.

Still not seeing sources...other than name calling..massive slow..lol and I read the salmander book..dont remember any piracy mentions..just all the green on yellow silliness.

 Soo'Vah'Cha wrote:
Still not seeing sources...other than name calling..massive slow..lol and I read the salmander book..dont remember any piracy mentions..just all the green on yellow silliness.

I said the source. Salamanders books. The Marines Malevolent make multiple appearances, in all of which they are either donkey-caves, incompetent, or outright heretical. They previously pissed off the Admech by unknown means and now have to scavenge all their power armor, they raided a "beached" Mechanicus ship for bolters and power armor instead of returning the resources to the admech, and the Captain failed to execute marines mutated by Chaos and instead sent them on a suicide mission to attack the Salamanders. Plus the Marines Malevolent previously came to blows with another loyalist chapter.

By now they really ought to be simply declared traitors and exterminated.

I was asking for the piracy allegations, and it has not been stated anywhere as fact as to why there seems to be a problem with the Admech.
Not debating if they are paragons of marine goodness...just wanted to know if I had missed a tidbit of fluff with the admech.

And your opinion is noted and filed in bin 13...

 Wyzilla wrote:
I said the source. Salamanders books. The Marines Malevolent make multiple appearances, in all of which they are either donkey-caves, incompetent, or outright heretical. They previously pissed off the Admech by unknown means and now have to scavenge all their power armor, they raided a "beached" Mechanicus ship for bolters and power armor instead of returning the resources to the admech, and the Captain failed to execute marines mutated by Chaos and instead sent them on a suicide mission to attack the Salamanders. Plus the Marines Malevolent previously came to blows with another loyalist chapter.

By now they really ought to be simply declared traitors and exterminated.

Wow, they did all that and actively attacked the Salamanders, a First Founding chapter?

HERESY!!!!!

How have they not been declared renegade yet?

So I guess there's really no contest for the top Dirt Bag chapter.

 EngulfedObject wrote:

HERESY!!!!!

How have they not been declared renegade yet?

So I guess there's really no contest for the top Dirt Bag chapter.

Yeah I had a Salamander player buddy and we had no end of grudge matches over this fluff...fun times

 EngulfedObject wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:
I said the source. Salamanders books. The Marines Malevolent make multiple appearances, in all of which they are either donkey-caves, incompetent, or outright heretical. They previously pissed off the Admech by unknown means and now have to scavenge all their power armor, they raided a "beached" Mechanicus ship for bolters and power armor instead of returning the resources to the admech, and the Captain failed to execute marines mutated by Chaos and instead sent them on a suicide mission to attack the Salamanders. Plus the Marines Malevolent previously came to blows with another loyalist chapter.

By now they really ought to be simply declared traitors and exterminated.

Wow, they did all that and actively attacked the Salamanders, a First Founding chapter?

HERESY!!!!!

How have they not been declared renegade yet?

So I guess there's really no contest for the top Dirt Bag chapter.

Yup. They blackmailed and threatened a Salamander Captain at first, then later sent a tainted squad on a suicide mission against the Salamanders. Mind you this was an attack mounted by the Dragon Warriors, meaning the tainted squad were aiding and abetting heretics.

So they're basically on the verge of being declared renegades and it's only a matter of time?

That was only a captain that behaved that way..could be a really rotten apple in a barrel of not so nice apples...and he may get spanked when he reports to the chapter master.
I always suspected the Vinyard was kinda a lose cannon..but hey thats just my version, not much is really known about the higher ups...they just made a good foil for the sallies in that story, and to tell the truth was a nice departure from alot of other marine stories..some actual conflict.

 Brennonjw wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
Space Wolves, by dooming all of humanity to Chaos by not following the orders of the only organizations that hold Chaos at bay (the Ecclesiarchy and the Inquisition).

bah! you just want easy killing of loyal guardsmen inquisitor

What about when the Ecclesiarchy showed up at Fenris to make sure the Emperor was being worshipped well and good instead of tribal deities Chaos, and the Fang fired at them as soon as they left Warp.

Like, the Ecclesiarchy was literally like "Anything wrong here? No? Good!" and moving along, but when they got to Fenris they said "Anything wrong here?" and instead of an answer got gigantic laser cannons to the face.

Dirtbags.

EDIT:
Or the time the Inquisition was like "Go on a penitence crusade!" like they've done to several chapters in history and the Space Wolves gave them a face-full of laser fire.

The Ecclesiarchy has no jurisdiction on a Chapter homeworld. They should know better, but they can't leave well enough alone and always stick their noses where they don't belong.

It wasn't like the people of Fenris hadn't being doing the same thing for ten thousand years.

 Veteran Sergeant wrote:
The Ecclesiarchy has no jurisdiction on a Chapter homeworld. They should know better, but they can't leave well enough alone and always stick their noses where they don't belong.

It wasn't like the people of Fenris hadn't being doing the same thing for ten thousand years.

I will need a citation on that - IIRC, the Chapter homeworlds are only exempt from the Imperial tithe, not the Imperial state religion.

Which citation would you like? This fluff has literally existed in every edition.

Codex Imperialis: "Other civilian cults are denounced as heresy and their adherents rooted out by the Ministorum's troops, but the Space Marine Chaplains care nothing for the misguided ravings of the Ecclesiarchy and ignore the dictates of the Imperial Cult"

C:UM - "it has never been able to influence the Space Marine cults"
"Space Marine Chaplains care nothing for the ravings of the Ecclesiarchy and ignore the dictates of the Imperial Cult."

C:SM:4E - "They are not subject to Imperial rule"

C:SM:5E - "it has never been able to influence the Space Marine cults"
"Space Marine Chaplains care nothing for the ravings of the Ecclesiarchy and ignore the dictates of the Imperial Cult."

C:SM:6E - "Space Marines have never acknowledged the doctrines or religious supremacy of the Ecclesiarchy. Space Marine Chaplains care little for the ravings of the Ecclesiarch’ s priests and ignore the dictates of the Imperial Cult in favour of their own ancient traditions. While the Adeptus Ministorum has gradually extended its inf luence
throughout the galaxy, it has failed to sway the Space Marine cults"


Space Marine Chapter Planets are "governed by the Space Marines" (7th Edition Rulebook) and the Space Marines are not subject to Imperial Rule (C:SM:4E), let alone the Ecclesiarchy.

ANd the one time some Space Marines agreed to listen to the Ecclesiarchy, the gooftard in the giant Space Pope hat sent them into the Eye of Terror. So they came back and cut off his head. I mean, the fluff behind the Abyssal Crusade is atrociously bad, but such is Mango.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

I will need a citation on that - IIRC, the Chapter homeworlds are only exempt from the Imperial tithe, not the Imperial state religion.

The first Space Marine Chapters were founded centuries before the development of the Imperial Cult or the Adeplus Ministorum, and with the lone exception of the Black Templars, Space Marines have never acknowledged the doctrines or religious supremacy of the Ecclesiarchy. Space Marine Chaplains care little for the ravings or the Ecclesiarch's priests and ignore the dictates of the Imperial Cult in favour of their own ancient traditions. While the Adeptus Ministorum has gradually extended its influence throughout the galaxy, it has failed to sway the Space Marine cults, which remain as stubbornly independent as they ever were in millennia past. (Codex: Space Marines. “Chaplains”. 6th Edition. p81)

AFAIK there are some sayings about what the Ecclesiarchy feel about this in the Sisters of Batte Codex (2E), but it's gone in the 6E Codex: Adepta Sororitas.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
Space Wolves, by dooming all of humanity to Chaos by not following the orders of the only organizations that hold Chaos at bay (the Ecclesiarchy and the Inquisition).

You got to be joking right? Cadia and the other famous IG factions have held Chaos back. Several Space Marine chapters have done it, even xenos like the Eldar and New Crons' are firmly opposed to Chaos. You only doom humanity by killing everyone off on a planet when someone a planet over sneezes in a way that sounds daemonic.

Sorry, I didn't know that "Space Marines" were the same people living on the planets owned by Space Marines, and that Chaplains presided over the weekly Masses.

Forgive me for thinking it was only the chapters, and not the entire planets, that were independent.

 KingmanHighborn wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
Space Wolves, by dooming all of humanity to Chaos by not following the orders of the only organizations that hold Chaos at bay (the Ecclesiarchy and the Inquisition).

You got to be joking right? Cadia and the other famous IG factions have held Chaos back. Several Space Marine chapters have done it, even xenos like the Eldar and New Crons' are firmly opposed to Chaos. You only doom humanity by killing everyone off on a planet when someone a planet over sneezes in a way that sounds daemonic.

Yea, this is my position as well, it makes no sense to kill off your own planets every time there's a daemonic presence. And you need only look at the Age of Apostasy to see that the Ecclesiarchy is hardly a reliable guardian for humanity.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
Sorry, I didn't know that "Space Marines" were the same people living on the planets owned by Space Marines, and that Chaplains presided over the weekly Masses.

Forgive me for thinking it was only the chapters, and not the entire planets, that were independent.

"A "Chapter planet" is an Astartes world which is both governed by the chapter and which serves as the base for their fortress-monastery."
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Adeptus_Astartes_Homeworld

 EngulfedObject wrote:

 KingmanHighborn wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
Space Wolves, by dooming all of humanity to Chaos by not following the orders of the only organizations that hold Chaos at bay (the Ecclesiarchy and the Inquisition).

You got to be joking right? Cadia and the other famous IG factions have held Chaos back. Several Space Marine chapters have done it, even xenos like the Eldar and New Crons' are firmly opposed to Chaos. You only doom humanity by killing everyone off on a planet when someone a planet over sneezes in a way that sounds daemonic.

Yea, this is my position as well, it makes no sense to kill off your own planets every time there's a daemonic presence. And you need only look at the Age of Apostasy to see that the Ecclesiarchy is hardly a reliable guardian for humanity.

Well, to to fair, it's not every Inquisitor's position to put Exterminatus order on planets that had Daemonic Incursions. If you look at Emil Darkahammer, who Exterminatus'd over thirty planets for far smaller things than Daemonic Incursions. If you take the words from codex: Inquisition, the Inquisition (if you'd consider it to be a unified concept) has a very diversified opinion about this:

Such forthright acts have long since polarised the opinions of other Inquisitors. Some believe Darkhammer to be a beacon of righteousness in dark times, the spiritual heir of Inquisitors Goldo and Jeriminus, who first codified the Monodomiant credo that he follows. Others consider Darkhammer to be only fractionally less destructive than the Daemons of the Warp. (Codex: Inquisition. "Emil Darkhammer". digital)

If you find a more reasonable inquisitor they'd at least consider something less... drastic, like only indentured servitude and labor camp, but without the sterilization.