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 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Wonderwolf wrote:
The overarching theme of the Legions are the fact that they are broken.

When a billionaire goes broke he's still a millionaire. Same thing applies to the Legions. Rather than thousands upon thousands of Marines those warbands could be five or six hundred strong, easily enough for a monobuild, and easily enough for Kharn to lead them.

If Chapters only 1000 strong get entire Codices then it is simply baffling how multiple warbands that could be hundreds if not thousands in size, spread across the galaxy, somehow can't get their own rules.

Not only chapters getting their own Codices.

Companies. Sentinels of Terra, Clan Raukaan and Champions of Fenris are supplements dedicated to a single company of their respective chapters. We're only now getting one of four major codices that Chaos should have had fairly early on at least - dedicated to the four powers. But even then, it's widely believed this is just to ride on the back of the Bloodthirster release and boy can I believe it seeing as we're still getting offered the same old Berserkers and Marines and not even a new upgrade kit or something.

It seems that ever since 3.5 Chaos just isn't going to get a break.

It also looks grim in terms of Chaos General Codexes because if they made this codex then if they make a Chaos Space Marine Codex within the next few months then this codex is going to feel outdated.

The Gorepack: 2-4 Chaos Bikers, 1-4 Fleshhounds, looks like it would be fun and then I remembered that Fleshhounds are in Finecast.

Epic fail, where's our plastic Fleshhounds GW???

There are no Chosen.

I find that weird.

Fleshhounds are pretty easily modeled or gotten elsewhere. I forget where I got mine but their just like daemonic looking dogs that I put some spikes on the collars of.

People are surprised when I tell them their not actual GW Flesh Hounds. They're plastic and were super cheap. I'll try and figure where I got em.

 Slaanesh-Devotee wrote:
There are no Chosen.

I find that weird.

Yeah, me too now you mention it.

Chosen with beaucoup melee options but perhaps fewer/zero special weapon and heavy weapon slots would have been cool and fluffy, if not especially scary.

It is pretty ridiculous to say that Kharn doesn't have a right to be in this book because of fluff reasons, when you can have two chapter masters leading a single company of marines from a supplement.

 Azreal13 wrote:
Not 4 times no, there's not going to be a Nurgle Cult or Tzeentch Coven book, this is fundamentally Codex: Buy Our Shiny New Bloodthirster.

Well until there is a new plastic greater daemon for the other gods anyway.

Only just realised the zerkers in the WD are on those slightly bigger bases aren't they?

 unmercifulconker wrote:
Only just realised the zerkers in the WD are on those slightly bigger bases aren't they?

Yeah. This is likely a small opportunity to spread around the new 30mm bases to CSM and Daemons. The new Khorne Daemonkin box has them all on 30mm.

Wonderwolf wrote:




But "worshiping" Chaos Gods isn't a World Eater or Angron thing, certainly not a Kharn-thing or an Abaddon thing. Likewise, entering realspace on the bidding of crazed worshipers in religious ecstasy isn't something Karanak would do. Nothing Skarbrand could do, in all likelhood.

I find the choice of which units are included and not included in this Codex to be masterfully done. It certainly shows a far better understanding of the World Eaters' background than that possessed by 99% of all "World Eater-fans" on Dakka, it appears.

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaaaa...hahahahahahahahahaha

Oh god thats funny has hell...

The only period where Angron and WE wern't worshiping Khorne is in the beginning, where they din't care for it, and only a fraction of it, since in the Eater of Worlds novel, its is made pretty OBVIOUS that there is more WE that openly worship Khorne then the opposite.

kharn isn't really convinced about it and the other Captains that accompagny him are like" dunno dude, seems weird and gak", and that mentallity quickly goes down the drain after Skallathrax...

So yeah, tell us all about how we know gak about our fluff.

THEY KILL, so THEY WORSHIP Khorne, its has simple has that, anything else is stupid and louzy

Whoops... there doesn't seem to be anything here.

 Sillycybin wrote:

rollawaythestone wrote:

 unmercifulconker wrote:
Only just realised the zerkers in the WD are on those slightly bigger bases aren't they?

Yeah. This is likely a small opportunity to spread around the new 30mm bases to CSM and Daemons. The new Khorne Daemonkin box has them all on 30mm.

I don't understand why GW has chosen of all things, to try and change things up by changing the base sizes 2mm.

I hope this doesn't turn out to be all that chaos gets this year.... a supplement book that can basically already be done with the existing codices.

There are a lot of units that could use a new plastic kit.

I do have to admit that they look much better on the bigger 32mm bases. Looks like this confirms all power armor forces will have the bigger bases now.

I know what you're saying though, it would be so good to have an updated CSM box, or terminators box. Even if I don't play Chaos I'd get a set just to paint if they're anything like the Dark Vengeance set!


I'd like to ask current Chaos players: Do you think this codex will be any more competitive than standard CSM + allies?

Read through the whole "no Kharn" debate and was on the fence what to think. Then I opened my Games Workshop app on my ipad and read all the cool paragraphs about the codex and what it should be. The story right under the one pictured below says:

"This brand new Codex unites all the followers of the Blood God, mortal and daemonic, within one book, complete with rules that make them more powerful the more death and destruction they cause"

Still good at this point.

Then I come to this story, telling me all about Kharn and how he is the symbol of Khorne and all that jazz. Now I can't figure out the reasoning behind not including him. They flat out say he's pretty much the epitome of Khorne worship, which Daemonkin is supposed to be all about.

 Ignatius wrote:
Read through the whole "no Kharn" debate and was on the fence what to think. Then I opened my Games Workshop app on my ipad and read all the cool paragraphs about the codex and what it should be. The story right under the one pictured below says:

"This brand new Codex unites all the followers of the Blood God, mortal and daemonic, within one book, complete with rules that make them more powerful the more death and destruction they cause"

Still good at this point.

Then I come to this story, telling me all about Kharn and how he is the symbol of Khorne and all that jazz. Now I can't figure out the reasoning behind not including him. They flat out say he's pretty much the epitome of Khorne worship, which Daemonkin is supposed to be all about.

The reason Kharn wasn't included I doubt had anything to do with rules or army composition (one of GW's lowest levels of focus) and everything to do with models. GW probably has plans to replace Kharn at some point, especially if they are cutting out FineCast. Kharn is already Direct-Only, so if the cutting of FineCast does happen, there will be a period of no GW model available (note I mean GW model, GW doesn't have any interest in whether FW produces it or not). This leaves GW with a couple of months of "vulnerability" to third party companies, so it's better to not have the rules in there and be safe.

These decisions are made only with business in mind.

 Accolade wrote:

 Ignatius wrote:
Read through the whole "no Kharn" debate and was on the fence what to think. Then I opened my Games Workshop app on my ipad and read all the cool paragraphs about the codex and what it should be. The story right under the one pictured below says:

"This brand new Codex unites all the followers of the Blood God, mortal and daemonic, within one book, complete with rules that make them more powerful the more death and destruction they cause"

Still good at this point.

Then I come to this story, telling me all about Kharn and how he is the symbol of Khorne and all that jazz. Now I can't figure out the reasoning behind not including him. They flat out say he's pretty much the epitome of Khorne worship, which Daemonkin is supposed to be all about.

The reason Kharn wasn't included I doubt had anything to do with rules or army composition (one of GW's lowest levels of focus) and everything to do with models. GW probably has plans to replace Kharn at some point, especially if they are cutting out FineCast. Kharn is already Direct-Only, so if the cutting of FineCast does happen, there will be a period of no GW model available (note I mean GW model, GW doesn't have any interest in whether FW produces it or not). This leaves GW with a couple of months of "vulnerability" to third party companies, so it's better to not have the rules in there and be safe.

These decisions are made only with business in mind.

The problem with that theory/idea is that releasing an unfinished codex, as it were, leaves them vulnerable to less people buying it too. If it was complete with Kharn, Skulltaker, etc, it'd likely sell a lot more, plus, this is no excuse considering they're still producing the crapcast Herald of Khorne model and it's STILL a unit entry in the book. They still have finecast model entries, so why not Kharn and SKulltaker?

 PlaguelordHobbyServices wrote:

 Accolade wrote:

 Ignatius wrote:
Read through the whole "no Kharn" debate and was on the fence what to think. Then I opened my Games Workshop app on my ipad and read all the cool paragraphs about the codex and what it should be. The story right under the one pictured below says:

"This brand new Codex unites all the followers of the Blood God, mortal and daemonic, within one book, complete with rules that make them more powerful the more death and destruction they cause"

Still good at this point.

Then I come to this story, telling me all about Kharn and how he is the symbol of Khorne and all that jazz. Now I can't figure out the reasoning behind not including him. They flat out say he's pretty much the epitome of Khorne worship, which Daemonkin is supposed to be all about.

The reason Kharn wasn't included I doubt had anything to do with rules or army composition (one of GW's lowest levels of focus) and everything to do with models. GW probably has plans to replace Kharn at some point, especially if they are cutting out FineCast. Kharn is already Direct-Only, so if the cutting of FineCast does happen, there will be a period of no GW model available (note I mean GW model, GW doesn't have any interest in whether FW produces it or not). This leaves GW with a couple of months of "vulnerability" to third party companies, so it's better to not have the rules in there and be safe.

These decisions are made only with business in mind.

The problem with that theory/idea is that releasing an unfinished codex, as it were, leaves them vulnerable to less people buying it too. If it was complete with Kharn, Skulltaker, etc, it'd likely sell a lot more, plus, this is no excuse considering they're still producing the crapcast Herald of Khorne model and it's STILL a unit entry in the book. They still have finecast model entries, so why not Kharn and SKulltaker?

You can make a Herald from the Skull Cannon kit for the record.

The focus is short-term profits.

Besides that, why would you stop buying? You're loyal to GW aren't you? They make the best miniatures in the world, and their rules are the best fluff money can buy.

If you don't think this is GW's mindset, go read their commentary from the GW vs CHS case. They very clearly state this idea as their perception of their customers. There is no risk of loss of sales on these minor inconveniences. Worst comes to worst, they lose some non-loyal customers, and the others can make up for it.

And I would like to think they are delusional about it, but then they double the price of the Blood Thirster kit and people still buy them up like hot cakes.

Yeah, I mean it seems to be working. Someone is buying those $150-$300 limited edition books, and if GW can lower its production and infrastructure to sell to a small group of die-hards with money to burn, then more power to them. I just think it's going to have a significantly deleterious effect on the game of 40k, but I suppose the game is secondary to GW at this point.

The saddest thing about this codex is that it seems of the three troop options, bloodletters are actually the best.
70 pt min squads of cultists or 85 pt min squads of CSMs are just ridiculously expensive for what you get.
I am likely going to use a CAD with Kharn and 6 squads of unmarked cultists, but I am still waiting to hear what the allies matrix is.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 adamsouza wrote:
And I would like to think they are delusional about it, but then they double the price of the Blood Thirster kit and people still buy them up like hot cakes.

^That still boggles my mind.

They also tripled the mass of the Bloodthirster kit, to be fair.

The ridiculous part is that this codex is trying to encourage you to buy something like three of them though.

 PlaguelordHobbyServices wrote:

 Accolade wrote:

 Ignatius wrote:
Read through the whole "no Kharn" debate and was on the fence what to think. Then I opened my Games Workshop app on my ipad and read all the cool paragraphs about the codex and what it should be. The story right under the one pictured below says:

"This brand new Codex unites all the followers of the Blood God, mortal and daemonic, within one book, complete with rules that make them more powerful the more death and destruction they cause"

Still good at this point.

Then I come to this story, telling me all about Kharn and how he is the symbol of Khorne and all that jazz. Now I can't figure out the reasoning behind not including him. They flat out say he's pretty much the epitome of Khorne worship, which Daemonkin is supposed to be all about.

The reason Kharn wasn't included I doubt had anything to do with rules or army composition (one of GW's lowest levels of focus) and everything to do with models. GW probably has plans to replace Kharn at some point, especially if they are cutting out FineCast. Kharn is already Direct-Only, so if the cutting of FineCast does happen, there will be a period of no GW model available (note I mean GW model, GW doesn't have any interest in whether FW produces it or not). This leaves GW with a couple of months of "vulnerability" to third party companies, so it's better to not have the rules in there and be safe.

These decisions are made only with business in mind.

The problem with that theory/idea is that releasing an unfinished codex, as it were, leaves them vulnerable to less people buying it too. If it was complete with Kharn, Skulltaker, etc, it'd likely sell a lot more, plus, this is no excuse considering they're still producing the crapcast Herald of Khorne model and it's STILL a unit entry in the book. They still have finecast model entries, so why not Kharn and SKulltaker?

The problem with that theory is khârn still exists in the chaos space marine codrx, which is still current.

Go read my comments. This thought was based on the rumors that Finecast is nearing being discontinued. The CSM book was released two years ago, and they aren't going to go actually take something out of that book.

Now, I think that Kharn will return in the CSM book again, but it will only be if he gets a new plastic model (ala Asmodai in the Dark Angels army). There will be other Chaos HQs that disappear, the same way that the armies that have come before have been tampered with (any GW doesn't feel like making in plastic).

Because a new CSM book would still be some time out (one could reason the Finecast thing would happen during this time), Kharn simply was excluded from the Khorne Daemonkind book. Which seems incredibly silly considering he's the poster boy of Khorne.

changemod wrote:
They also tripled the mass of the Bloodthirster kit, to be fair.

Does anyone have a size comparison pic between the old and new ?

 herpguy wrote:
It is pretty ridiculous to say that Kharn doesn't have a right to be in this book because of fluff reasons, when you can have two chapter masters leading a single company of marines from a supplement.

Clearly the Chapter Master and the person he's grooming to be his replacement.

Or with Iron Hands each of those is a Clan Leader.

Though there is a Chapter of Marines who keeps 2 Chapter Masters (though which one it is escapes me right now).

Who knows, maybe the Finecast rumor will affect Kharn and he's going away until he gets a new model?

I remember when the Chaos Codex had everything in it. Running a D Stature Demon Prince with a Thirster and a bunch of champs with Burning Blood and Talismans. Aspiring Champion or Chaos Lord on a Juggernaut.. yeah.. that was a real thing. Sorry but Geedub pissed in my cheerios with their direction on Chaos a long time ago. Them throwing out a supplement to let Chaos do something it should be able to do in the first place is just more grubby money grabbing.

Not a supplement MLaw, a complete separate codex.

Which makes me wonder what will be happening to Chaos. Perhaps if this works the CSM book will split into a book for each god and an Undivided book?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Instead of a combined CSM book I mean. Perhaps a split up of the Daemons too.

Dunno. Just tossing out speculation.

Again.

Unless they are *phasing out named characters*.

When was the last time a Named Character was created...? Dark Eldar Codex of 5th edition?

I have a strange feeling that moving forward we're not going to see new named characters in any further Codices... in favor of plastic generic characters you can customize and call whatever you want.

So besides Belakor, Cypher, and all the starter specials?