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"I don't like anything about them. They are basically a bunch of elitist jerks, the models are awful, the names are idiotic, and their strategies suck and remove 90% of the tactics of the game.
" - jreilly89
I hate em... BUUUT I would keep em just do to the fact of this one awesome piece of art... It really is actually that fun when you assault tau

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-U6Qjb-4YdLM/UxcvW_Vb3rI/AAAAAAAAfDM/EkYvAb8qcaI/s1600/possessedmarines.PNG

 jreilly89 wrote:

 gmaleron wrote:
So one of the only reason you would remove the Tau is you don't like fighting them on the table top? If any army needs to be eliminated it's one of the multitude of different Space Marine Chapters because if you get rid of one there are plenty more to take their place.

I don't like anything about them. They are basically a bunch of elitist jerks, the models are awful, the names are idiotic, and their strategies suck and remove 90% of the tactics of the game.

The Tau are a bunch of Elitist jerks and the Imperium isn't? Lol sorry said could be said for them as well quite easily. And that is a complete exaggeration that they remove 90% of tactics in the game. Every army has the capability to remove certain aspects and take advantage of rules in the game not just the Tau.

I actually don't feel the need to get "rid" of any of them, but I'd love to see some of them rolled together. I figure Daemons could be included in the Chaos codex, GK in an Inquisitors codex along with Sisters, old Arbites and inquisitorial troops. Possibly even Mechanicus, though I'm not sure that would fit. Eldar and Dark Eldar in one with the Harlies. Heck I'd even "maybe" roll Dark Angels, Blood Angels, and Space Wolves into one so that you essentially had a Space Marine alternatives book vs the official Space Marine book for all the other codex chapters. Dunno if I'd roll guard into a book anywhere. Real tempted to say with Sisters and just leave GK as the main allies in the Inquisitor book.

I probably wouldn't actually get rid of anyone though.

Tyranids hurt my brain.

The law of thermodynamics called. It wants its biologists back.

There are many things Tyranids violate, the laws of Thermodynamics isn't one of them.

 Grey Templar wrote:
There are many things Tyranids violate, the laws of Thermodynamics isn't one of them.

Really? I thought that the reason they don't run out of energy during their interstellar trips that take literal eons is that they have 100% effective suspended animation.

I have never heard of any such thing.

They're definitely incredibly efficient. Its possible they have 99% efficient suspended animation. Some creatures today on Earth can survive tremendous periods without food if they enter a torper, Crocodiles and Snakes being the best examples.

Its easy to see a living vessel multiple kilometers in length and width surviving for hundreds of thousands of years traveling between galaxies. Once its heading in a direction its not going to stop so it needs almost no energy other than the bare minimum to keep itself alive. It could even let portions of its body just become dead, leaving just enough alive so it could restart once it reached its destination.

Tyranids don't need to maintain a specific body form alive like a human ship would. Any living tissue can regrow anything else. Once Tyranids are done with a planet, all the bioforms it created during the invasion are themselves consumed and reabsorbed into the Hive fleet.

Remove? None. Fold all the Marines into a HH style tome with core units up front and the specialty stuff sectioned off by chapter perhaps to cut down on how many seperate Marine books we have (freeing up space to add in other factions).

I'd like to see the same treatment for the CSM too actually.

Tau - small and insignificant compared to everything else.
necrons - fluff is boring compared to others and armies are nothing but troll sauce.
Sisters of battle - because I feel they wanna but just haven't.

Tyranids: their fluff is stupid, their models are ugly, and they add nothing to the story. I wouldn't even have to hesitate before removing them.

Demons: they're literally a WHFB army on round bases, so put them back in WHFB where they belong. To make up for this a few summoned demon options will be added to the CSM codex so that they can exist in their proper role as "weird monsters summoned by 'normal' chaos armies".

Every non-C:SM loyalist marine army: none of the special snowflakes deserve their own codex. All of them go back into C:SM (as "chapter tactics" variants) where they belong.

Necrons, for sure. 40k didn't need another MEQ army, what with Space Undead already taken by BA Space Vampire Knights.

The Tau represent the next empire to rule the galaxy, that said. I've never heard of them outside of myself once in awhile playing them as per their fluff in a long time. they're a mechanized force, suits drop down in hot zones. Fire warriors move around and keep mobile. Kroot mob it up because they actually represent the bulk of many-but not all- Tau Cadres. All the while Pathfinders scout around and get forward positions to do their spec ops thing. Tau operate like modern day forces sort of. (SORT OF) while they are always played like they're Napoleonic gun lines... Which is literally against their background. They run away when they're forced to defend positions, they would rather come back later or they have a trap set up for when you come to attack.


Although, the few novels featuring riptides do have them inning in groups of 2+ so that's always fluffy.

Knights, top of the list. Worst game design decision GW's made yet. I'd much rather give existing army lists that are actual army lists an overhaul than delete any of them.

Chaos. They have no business in a sci-fi setting.

Knights. They're just stupid.

I'd be all for a huge consolidation of codexes. SM, Chaos, Ecclesiarchy/Inquisition etc. as well.

None as I believe moar is bettar!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Stormonu wrote:
Chaos. They have no business in a sci-fi setting.

You are in to the wrong game/setting there buddy.

 gmaleron wrote:
If any army needs to be eliminated it's one of the multitude of different Space Marine Chapters because if you get rid of one there are plenty more to take their place.

Hail Hydra!

I didn't see Knights when I voted, and they would have been my choice; a single unit codex with a weapon slot, and an underpriced superheavy to boot is obscene and irritating.

I voted for Daemons however, and I'm with Peregrine on this one; it's a shoehorned in Fantasy army with bad super-random rules to try and make the models work in both systems as an army. Rolling for every upgrade, relying on random charts for "shooting" and army-wide invuln and melee dominance means playing them means you either have enough volume of fire to kill them on the charge or you don't. Fluff wise they also make no sense; you never fight a horde of daemons, they're infinite, you kill whatever it is that's allowing them to exist in the material plane. Fold them into an actual good Chaos book and the world would be a better place.

At this point? Eldar.

Knights. By far.

Knights don't need to be removed per se. Super-heavies and Gargantuan Creatures just need to be removed from "standard" 40K. They can be used in Apocalypse and special missions.

Space marines just because I get sick seeing them and with them gone maybe the rest of the races would get more units from the likes of forgeworld and gw.

Never was sure what the point of GK were but they kind of worked in the whole Inquisition codex. Actually so did Sisters. They either need to get rid of some or just roll them back together as one big army and add some more units with a shiny new codex. Splitting them up made them all worse and relegated to token allies units for people who really want to use them.

Definitely Grey Knights (with Blood Angels being second because of their ridiculously powerful drop pod lists).

Knights, I feel that they have done more damage to the game than almost anything... other than ward.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

10penceman wrote:
Space marines just because I get sick seeing them and with them gone maybe the rest of the races would get more units from the likes of forgeworld and gw.

the most recent releases are Necrons, Clown Eldar, and Deamons, so plenty of love going around.

 gmaleron wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:

 gmaleron wrote:
So one of the only reason you would remove the Tau is you don't like fighting them on the table top? If any army needs to be eliminated it's one of the multitude of different Space Marine Chapters because if you get rid of one there are plenty more to take their place.

I don't like anything about them. They are basically a bunch of elitist jerks, the models are awful, the names are idiotic, and their strategies suck and remove 90% of the tactics of the game.

The Tau are a bunch of Elitist jerks and the Imperium isn't? Lol sorry said could be said for them as well quite easily. And that is a complete exaggeration that they remove 90% of tactics in the game. Every army has the capability to remove certain aspects and take advantage of rules in the game not just the Tau.

Tau preach the Greater Good, but have a feudal caste system. How much more elitist can you get?

Tau can give any weapon Ignored Cover, have super Overwatch, and can jump in the Assault phase as well as Ignore Night fighting. But yeah, that's not cheap.

So, instead of fixing the problem, you just get rid of them? If that is how we fixed problems in this game there wound't be any game left.

I would ditch sisters of battle, so all those players would have closure, and ditch knights, because no one enjoys fighting against it.

 Vaktathi wrote:
Wait...thee WS3 BS3 S3 T3 I3 5+sv Ld7 guardsmen wielding S3 Rapid Fire guns isn't just too strong, but actually *immersion breaking*?

Yeah. 4-5 Guardsmen will kick a Space Marine's ass in melee, which is pretty funny as I am fairly certain that never ever happens in any lore (codex or BL) outside of obvious plot armour aka Cain/Gaunt. Hell, have the SM shoot the Guardsman with his grotesquely large explosive shells and he'll just shrug it off 1/3 of the time. BS.

It's like Black Crusade, the humans nerf everything else so they won't be too weak gamewise. Which sucks in a story-driven game.

 Vaktathi wrote:
Methinks there's a gross over-estimation of the abilities of other factions if that's the case.

Au contraire. I'd argue it is a gross underestimation of the abilities of other factions.

 Vaktathi wrote:
How weak do we then have to make Gretchin, Ripper Swarms, Fire Warriors, etc too in that case? I mean, there's *very* few things that are less capable than an Imperial Guardsmen.

Ripper swarms are fine. As said, some Orks would need toning down too, though nowhere near as much. As would Tau, but again, nowhere near as much. MEQ, Daemons, Eldar, Dark Eldar, Necrons, and most Tyranids are good where they are.

 Vaktathi wrote:
Lets also not forget that the basic statline system that 40k and Fantasy use is built around the Guardsmen profile representing a basic trained human soldier, and that it's generally other races that have been gradually exaggerated (both in fluff and game mechanics) over time. Space Marines at one point were T3 with 4+ armor saves (5+ against lasguns), Orks were S3 T3 with no CC bonuses, etc. The Guardsmen profile is probably one of the most static and enduring things in the game over its nearly 28 year lifespan. If there's an immersion issue, it's likely because other things have gone *way* off the deepend and people are taking the most absurd fluff the 40k universe has to offer at face value all the time.

How the statlines came where they are is irrelevant, it's where they are now that matters. GW wants me to play a narrative game, but I can't do this as the game is unable to reflect its own lore.

I'd argue that Cain's Berzerker antics are up there with the subsonic Marines fwiw.

The scene with 6 CSM casually wiping out a Guard company is not at all out of place in the setting. 'Tis part of the grimdark.

I voted none, because I miss Squats. No army should be left behind.

SJ