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 Sillycybin wrote:


Ad hominem is what you are doing right now, Ironic.

Pointing out your usage of logical fallacies is hardly an ad hominem.

D weapons on regular units goes too far. It is no longer only hurting the tourney scene like the cent star, it completely blasts any casual game involving eldar.

I'm going to wait for the exact rules and points costs, but if things stay as they are then GW officially eliminated a faction from the game.

Some people are suspecting that D-weapons will only act as Destroyer weapons on a roll of 6.

Even if that's the case, it's still pretty ridiculous. I honestly kind of feel bad for Eldar players. Codices that are too powerful are almost as bad as codices that are too weak. Almost.

Spoletta wrote:
D weapons on regular units goes too far. It is no longer only hurting the tourney scene like the cent star, it completely blasts any casual game involving eldar.

I'm going to wait for the exact rules and points costs, but if things stay as they are then GW officially eliminated a faction from the game.

As an Eldar player, this is what annoys me the most. All my favourite units, including the jetbikes I've been eagerly awaiting for years, are pretty much off limits if I actually want someone to play against me outside of a tournament. And in addition, if Eldar remains the undisputed super-cheese army, I get to look forward to potential opponents scrutinizing and feeling entitled to approve my army list before every game, so if I make my list more powerful than an undisclosed limit I get to be the douche no one wants to play. Hooray!

After gathering my thoughts I think I will play against the Eldar once just to see how good they are.

Granted, it's a lot of firepower. But how easy is it to kill T4 3+ these days?

I think GW intended to make them a bit like DEldar, fragile but hard hitting (that was my main gripe with the WS, it's hard hitting but durable).

Do I think GW know what they are doing? On paper no. Am I defending GW? No, definitely not on paper. But experience will help me form an opinion on whether to continue playing.

What if the troops have destroyer weapons, but are AP-? Many of you are over reacting to information that isn't yet clear.

Calm down.

 Sillycybin wrote:

 Thud wrote:

 Sillycybin wrote:
Where have you all been for every edition of 40k? When has this game ever been "balanced"? Why leave now when heldrakes use to dominate the skies and invisible daemon princes of "you cant shoot me" existed?

Do you have a list of logical fallacies you pull out and start reciting whenever someone has a bit of a moan about GW?

Ad hominem is what you are doing right now, Ironic.

I simply want an understanding of why people announce they are leaving this hobby for a silly reason like some new rules pop up. Apparently, given the answers I have been receiving, it is because reasonable players are incredible rare.

People are leaving because the rules are getting ridiculous... In a year or so every army will run around with D weapons on every unit and games will end on turn 3 max... I would also argue that the players leaving are more reasonable than players like you who just choose to ignore OP units and make the game fun for themselves and their friends. All units from a codex should be usable without making the game so one sided the other person has to ask you to stop using it. The hobby is just way to expensive for that... Yeah that 60$ codex you bought, could you please stop using half of it? Also could you stop using that 110$ model, its a bit too strong.... Thats not reasonable, thats just stupid.

 Cieged wrote:
What if the troops have destroyer weapons, but are AP-? Many of you are over reacting to information that isn't yet clear.

Calm down.

Does AP have any bearing on destroyer weapons?

 Cieged wrote:
What if the troops have destroyer weapons, but are AP-? Many of you are over reacting to information that isn't yet clear.

Calm down.

This could easily be the catch. Sure it would be awful for vehicles, but D weapons do not grant any AP on their own. If those things were AP- i could see them being strong but balanced (and another huge stake in the back for vehicles).

Edit: There again the 6 on the table is still there and still a problem.

 ImAGeek wrote:

 Cieged wrote:
What if the troops have destroyer weapons, but are AP-? Many of you are over reacting to information that isn't yet clear.

Calm down.

Does AP have any bearing on destroyer weapons?

on anything other than a 6 AP has a bearing. if you roll a 6 on the D table no saves of any kind.

Don't the wraith weapons already have that rule on a 6 though?

Maybe we will see a minor D rule for some models? Roll on the D chart with a -1 modifier?

There are many ways that the day can still be saved, let's just wait.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Nvs wrote:
Don't the wraith weapons already have that rule on a 6 though?

Right now the have ID on 6. They are always AP2.

What it would change with D is that on 6 they negate invul and cover and delete vehicles.

When do we expect actual codex leaks?

Please explain to me that a roll of a double 6 on a Wraithguard can instakill my Landraider and that AP- is somehow the redeeming factor

Deschenus Maximus wrote:
I want to say this is a cash-grabbing move on GW's part, but as the saying goes: "Never ascribe to malice that which can equaly be explained by incompetence."

Normally I'd agree but when it comes to Eldar there is definitely an agenda there, they have always had a very powerful codex(or at least able to take very powerful builds from their codex) and usually written by big Eldar fans (e.g. Phil and Gav)

If anyone is rage quitting 40k , please msg me and I will consider purchasing your army at a fair price.

At least the D part will be relatively low impact, since I imagine a lot of events are going to go with the 'No ranged D' thing.

 Thairne wrote:
Please explain to me that a roll of a double 6 on a Wraithguard can instakill my Landraider and that AP- is somehow the redeeming factor

Double six would instakill a STOMPA.

Eldar have always been one of the more powerful armies.

Any word on the Windriders armour save? I'm hoping it's a 4+.

When reality itself doesn't exist anymore, your landraider probably doesn't, either.

From a fluff perspective, it makes sense.

From a gameplay perspective, Serpents make it effective, and WWP makes it a slightly better Melta drop than they already were.

WWP wraiths were already stupid, both fluffwise and gamewise.

Basically, its just a 1/6 to ignore Cover and Invulns, and I think EW. And instead of fishing for Explodes.

Wow. That took an age to catch up. I was only offline for 12 hours

If anyone is around the southeast of England and wants a game I will always play against them. That is the point, isn't it?

I have Deathwing (with the 2+3++ on a lot of the units laser really just sting a little), Flying Elysians (good luck snap shooting and glancing me to death with your 160 shots), Armoured company (AV14 and re-roll cover save blasts) and Flesh Tearers (Fast moving and once I am in combat you had better hope you have hit and run)

That being said I do play Eldar, (4xSpiritseers, Wraithguard/Blades, 2 Serpents, Wraithknight, 2xWraithlords). I wont modify my list much I reckon, no bikes for me as it don't really fit my theme...

If someone refuses to play me then that is the kind of player I don't really want to know. I look at the big thing on the table as a challenge (be it a Knight (or 5!!!), GMC or Baneblade variant, even have a Fellblade in my local gaming group)

So bring it on...

9unit9 wrote:
Wow. That took an age to catch up. I was only offline for 12 hours

If anyone is around the southeast of England and wants a game I will always play against them. That is the point, isn't it?

I have Deathwing (with the 2+3++ on a lot of the units laser really just sting a little), Flying Elysians (good luck snap shooting and glancing me to death with your 160 shots), Armoured company (AV14 and re-roll cover save blasts) and Flesh Tearers (Fast moving and once I am in combat you had better hope you have hit and run)

That being said I do play Eldar, (4xSpiritseers, Wraithguard/Blades, 2 Serpents, Wraithknight, 2xWraithlords). I wont modify my list much I reckon, no bikes for me as it don't really fit my theme...

If someone refuses to play me then that is the kind of player I don't really want to know. I look at the big thing on the table as a challenge (be it a Knight (or 5!!!), GMC or Baneblade variant, even have a Fellblade in my local gaming group)

So bring it on...

Too bad that eldar list is now unbound.

 pretre wrote:
At least the D part will be relatively low impact, since I imagine a lot of events are going to go with the 'No ranged D' thing.

I predict they will have to revisit this unless they are prepared to start banning units wholesale. It's fairly difficult to tell someone who has a fluffy Iyanden army they can't play.

 Sarigar wrote:

 pretre wrote:
At least the D part will be relatively low impact, since I imagine a lot of events are going to go with the 'No ranged D' thing.

I predict they will have to revisit this unless they are prepared to start banning units wholesale. It's fairly difficult to tell someone who has a fluffy Iyanden army they can't play.

Not really that difficult when that fluffy Iyanden army has twenty to thirty D weapons in it. It's either that or lose serious other attendance when the first ITC event has a top 10 of Eldar.

Hollismason wrote:
Eldar have always been one of the more powerful armies.

Any word on the Windriders armour save? I'm hoping it's a 4+.

Per the WD, no stats or points have changed, just the addition of adding a Shuriken Cannon or Scatterlaser for 10 points per bike.

Hollismason wrote:
Eldar have always been one of the more powerful armies.

Any word on the Windriders armour save? I'm hoping it's a 4+.

The video in this thread shows it as having remained 3+.

As I've said before in other threads, we don't have the full amount of information yet. Also, Hanlon's razor forces me to assume incompetence on GW's part in the WD article. We get to malice if the codex comes out and the offending rules are still like this. I'm willing to be that the "Any" is a misprint and that regular Wraithguard will receive a different sort of weapon to keep them about in the same place in terms of power.

 Thud wrote:

Spoletta wrote:
D weapons on regular units goes too far. It is no longer only hurting the tourney scene like the cent star, it completely blasts any casual game involving eldar.

I'm going to wait for the exact rules and points costs, but if things stay as they are then GW officially eliminated a faction from the game.

As an Eldar player, this is what annoys me the most. All my favourite units, including the jetbikes I've been eagerly awaiting for years, are pretty much off limits if I actually want someone to play against me outside of a tournament. And in addition, if Eldar remains the undisputed super-cheese army, I get to look forward to potential opponents scrutinizing and feeling entitled to approve my army list before every game, so if I make my list more powerful than an undisclosed limit I get to be the douche no one wants to play. Hooray!

My thoughts exactly. Exalted. I used to only bring two Wave Serpents to regularly get pickup games. What now? Limits on jetbikes? Saim-Hann players are probably weeping tears of anger for the amount of cheese people will attribute to their favorite army. To everyone complaining about Eldar ITT, your complaints are valid, but think of it like this: if your army was suddenly thought of as being so cheesy that nobody in their right mind would play it, how many games would you get even if you didn't use the cheese?

Also, the blatant moneygrab on GW's part for the detachments also makes me mad. They're throwing together all of the sub-optimal units that WAAC cheesemongers didn't buy into one formation as the core. I'm better positioned than most, but I'll still need to pick up Vypers and Vaul's Wrath just to run it. For me, the detachment won't be useful unless the benefits were made of unused spirit stones.

And how many people would still complain about "the elf cheese"?

Not my idea (stole it from someone else on DakkaDakka) - but I wholeheartedly agree....

My current view of 40k. I will keep playing every now and then... but....

Hollismason wrote:
Eldar have always been one of the more powerful armies.

Any word on the Windriders armour save? I'm hoping it's a 4+.

They have a 3+ armour save, Eldar Jetbikes still provide a 3+ armour save.

9unit9 wrote:

I have Deathwing (with the 2+3++ on a lot of the units laser really just sting a little)

Ever heard of weight of fire?
That "stings a little" will average to 0.37 unsaved wounds per bike.
10 of these jetbikes, for a cost of 270pts, will kill 3.7 terminators on average due to weight of fire.
While having all the eldar perks.
Your terminators will get one round of shooting and then slog after them, never getting another shot in.
So 2 turns and you're down 250+ points and he won't have suffered a single HIT.