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2015/04/17 21:20:09
Subject: Re:Eldar Rumors - Page 24/25 first info & pics.
Red Corsair wrote: Grav guns? You are playing an army with more WC then SM could ever dare approach in a fluffy eldar list, which btw now can cast invisibility on that WK needing 1 fething WC and possibly on a 3+ in a council....
Interceptor? You mean Tau, again stop acting like these answers you are providing are generic. Why would you DS against tau in that scenario, you'd dust their static gun-line with superior JSJ on your bike troops.... YOU BEAT TAU ATJSJ!
BTW your bubble wrap comment is ridiculous and it makes me question your GT winning stature lol. So your suggesting we now have the added tax of fielding fence post dummies in order to prevent your optional deepstrike ON TOP of providing meaningful point efficient options to kill your basic troop bikes, which btw PLEASE actually give us an example of bubble wrap that won't break the bank, doesn't require unbound and can stand up to 100+ scatter laser shots? We are all dying to learn what you apparently know.
Iccarus Array has Interceptor. Onager is a nice unit to field.
The 100+ scatter laser shots from bikes is going to be a myth. Fielding 25+ jetbikes is going to be a massive pain (space wise on the table), and plus, you lose the formation bonus of shred (which only works on shuriken weapons). If you want the (awesome) warhost bonuses, you're stuck with using 3 units of jetbikes, and putting 40 rolls for one fragile 270 point unit (that can only target one enemy unit at a time) is a waste of points.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/04/17 21:23:46
2015/04/17 21:20:56
Subject: Eldar Rumors - Page 24/25 first info & pics.
yellowfever wrote: So am I going to be considered a power gamer when im running my Siam Hann army that I've had since the original craft world Eldar codex.
Depends whether or not you swap all your bike weapons out. Even then it sucks that you have to pull your punches.
Red Corsair wrote: Grav guns? You are playing an army with more WC then SM could ever dare approach in a fluffy eldar list, which btw now can cast invisibility on that WK needing 1 fething WC and possibly on a 3+ in a council....
Interceptor? You mean Tau, again stop acting like these answers you are providing are generic. Why would you DS against tau in that scenario, you'd dust their static gun-line with superior JSJ on your bike troops.... YOU BEAT TAU ATJSJ!
BTW your bubble wrap comment is ridiculous and it makes me question your GT winning stature lol. So your suggesting we now have the added tax of fielding fence post dummies in order to prevent your optional deepstrike ON TOP of providing meaningful point efficient options to kill your basic troop bikes, which btw PLEASE actually give us an example of bubble wrap that won't break the bank, doesn't require unbound and can stand up to 100+ scatter laser shots? We are all dying to learn what you apparently know.
Iccarus Array has Interceptor.
Doesn't it also have skyfire, though?
"The Emporer is a rouge trader."
- Charlie Chaplain.
2015/04/17 21:22:08
Subject: Re:Eldar Rumors - Page 24/25 first info & pics.
Red Corsair wrote: btw now can cast invisibility on that WK needing 1 fething WC and possibly on a 3+ in a council....
Sure, and 5 Grots can shoot 5 Terminators to death in one salvo too. "What's possible" is radically different than "what's probable".
"'players must agree how they are going to select their armies, and if any restrictions apply to the number and type of models they can use."
This is an actual rule in the actual rulebook. Quit whining about how you can imagine someone's army touching you in a bad place and play by the actual rules.
Freelance Ontologist
When people ask, "What's the point in understanding everything?" they've just disqualified themselves from using questions and should disappear in a puff of paradox. But they don't understand and just continue existing, which are also their only two strategies for life.
2015/04/17 21:22:52
Subject: Re:Eldar Rumors - Page 24/25 first info & pics.
Red Corsair wrote: Grav guns? You are playing an army with more WC then SM could ever dare approach in a fluffy eldar list, which btw now can cast invisibility on that WK needing 1 fething WC and possibly on a 3+ in a council....
Interceptor? You mean Tau, again stop acting like these answers you are providing are generic. Why would you DS against tau in that scenario, you'd dust their static gun-line with superior JSJ on your bike troops.... YOU BEAT TAU ATJSJ!
BTW your bubble wrap comment is ridiculous and it makes me question your GT winning stature lol. So your suggesting we now have the added tax of fielding fence post dummies in order to prevent your optional deepstrike ON TOP of providing meaningful point efficient options to kill your basic troop bikes, which btw PLEASE actually give us an example of bubble wrap that won't break the bank, doesn't require unbound and can stand up to 100+ scatter laser shots? We are all dying to learn what you apparently know.
Iccarus Array has Interceptor.
Yea, so? I didn't say tau were the only ones, they are the only meaningful one however. You really think the iccarus array will kill DS'ing ground firedragons?
And again, why would eldar DS against skittari or Tau when they out shoot them and out range them?
Red Corsair wrote: btw now can cast invisibility on that WK needing 1 fething WC and possibly on a 3+ in a council....
Sure, and 5 Grots can shoot 5 Terminators to death in one salvo too. "What's possible" is radically different than "what's probable".
Except the 3+ thing is just a relic, isn't it? That's not at all improbable.
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2015/04/17 21:23:56
Subject: Re:Eldar Rumors - Page 24/25 first info & pics.
It's a mix, everyone wants to field their toys and nobody wants to play a guy that is pulling his punches. When a book like this drops it creates lose lose scenarios unless your playing hard core narrative. One guy gets to play with anything he wants, while his opponent always has to try to equal his opponent and when he loses you never played his full potential and when he wins he probably over stepped. It just makes a silly game state.
So more to your question, in a competitive tournament? Yea, generally when six guys are thumbing the button on the doomsday clock, none of them want to be the guy that hits it second. So we then have the crappy task of comping the feth out of the tournaments which usually inadvertently kneecaps the few outliers.
For pick up games it's not a major issue but only because almost no one will play them casually and defer to their other more "fun" armies. Which is a shame because I want to play eldar, but I also want to play a fair game where one guy doesn't pad his gloves.
I share your sentiments. It just sucks for the game. Even if it doesn't effect your meta and your own casual group of gamers, it's bad for the zeitgeist of the game as whole. It's causes psychic damage to the game which is already fragile enough and hemorrhaging older players.
Meh. Wraithknight costing 295 points, Wraithguard remaining the same price while having almost normal D-weapons. Swooping Hawks can move 18" and vector strike flyers with Haywire grenades. Add the good jetbikes.
nedTCM wrote: Wraithguard are now the best unit in the game. Same firepower as a Titan. Can kill a Warhound with one turn of shooting. Can deep strike no scatter with an allied Archaon.
Fair and Balanced!
Technically, they do not have the same firepower as a Titan because (1) Titan has more range; (2) Titan usually affects a lot more models with multiple shots and large template/blast; and, (3) Titan is way more survivable.
Wraithguard are limited to short range and need a serpent or WWP to get in place and even then, with proper tactics and play, you should be able to manage. You know, like keep units a certain distance to a particularly juicy target so that Eldar can't deepstrike close enough (bubble wrap strategy) or keep a target in reserves until Wraithguard deploy.
Furthermore, they are apparently no longer scoring so they cannot contest other objectives held by obsec.
Finally, being able to kill a Warhound and deepstrike without scatter (with an Archon which isn't actually part of the unit mind you) is not the criterion for determining if a unit is best evar or not.
Keep white knighting this farce while not actually providing realistic solutions to the problem.
"Guys, gee golly gosh haven't you heard of the tactic bubble wrap? It's super hard for eldar to peel it back with their bland toothless options."
So how many Eldar players do you regularly play against?
There are 6, then more that turn up at larger events. Your point is?
Are they normally the type of player that takes these crazy units? Is it a very competitive meta?
It's a mix, everyone wants to field their toys and nobody wants to play a guy that is pulling his punches. When a book like this drops it creates lose lose scenarios unless your playing hard core narrative. One guy gets to play with anything he wants, while his opponent always has to try to equal his opponent and when he loses you never played his full potential and when he wins he probably over stepped. It just makes a silly game state.
So more to your question, in a competitive tournament? Yea, generally when six guys are thumbing the button on the doomsday clock, none of them want to be the guy that hits it second. So we then have the crappy task of comping the feth out of the tournaments which usually inadvertently kneecaps the few outliers.
For pick up games it's not a major issue but only because almost no one will play them casually and defer to their other more "fun" armies. Which is a shame because I want to play eldar, but I also want to play a fair game where one guy doesn't pad his gloves.
I guess we have different outlooks on the game. Sure I like taking the units I want to take, but sometimes that just isn't possible due to them being either OP or UP. If I take too many of those units then the game simply isn't fun, since I am responsible for my own actions I then take other things. I don't consider taking the most broken units part of playing to my full potential btw. I try to take fairly balanced non cheesy lists so I can play to my full potential and feel like I earned it. If I have a list on the same power level as my opponent and I still beat him and he still blames it on me playing Eldar, it's not my fault he needs an excuse for losing, and honestly he probably would have blamed it on my list regardless of the army I played.
2015/04/17 21:34:27
Subject: Re:Eldar Rumors - Page 24/25 first info & pics.
mercury14 wrote: Did anyone else not know what the comment on Scorpions was? "Steath until the fire fight?"
Edit: stealth and "shrouded until the fire of fight"?
I actually love all the aspects perks, had jetbikes been toned down somehow (1 in 3 heavies or FA shift/slight price hike on scats) and the D been isolated to the LOW only I'd say this was an excellent release.... unfortunately that's not the case.
Eldar remains at 6th, except for serpents which are 7th.
That's a good idea.
Or this:
Each army gets a points multiplier, agreed to by the community. If we take Eldar as "1", then Necrons might be 1.3, Daemons 1.5, and weaker armies can be 2 - 2.5. For any game, just multiply the points to arrive at the handicapped points allowed in the list.
2015/04/17 21:37:16
Subject: Re:Eldar Rumors - Page 24/25 first info & pics.
Each army gets a points multiplier, agreed to by the community. If we take Eldar as "1", then Necrons might be 1.3, Daemons 1.5, and weaker armies can be 2 - 2.5. For any game, just multiply the points to arrive at the handicapped points allowed in the list.
That is just too clunky to work. You'd have to bring an extra 2000-3000 points to an event depending on your army.
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2015/04/17 21:38:23
Subject: Re:Eldar Rumors - Page 24/25 first info & pics.
so, aside from the wraith things and jet bikes. A ulthwé list might do some good and not be OP right? some guardians with war walkers and fire prisms, farseers and warlocks.
Can't wait
2015/04/17 21:42:03
Subject: Eldar Rumors - Page 24/25 first info & pics.
ashikenshin wrote: so, aside from the wraith things and jet bikes. A ulthwé list might do some good and not be OP right? some guardians with war walkers and fire prisms, farseers and warlocks.
Can't wait
Maybe the lesser of two evils, but honestly, the Ulthwe psychic stuff is pretty over the top as well. The Seer Council bonus gives a 3+ to manifest, with relics that allow for 1 less WC to manifest powers. Alongside a new Apocalyptic Blast psychic power...
nedTCM wrote: Wraithguard are now the best unit in the game. Same firepower as a Titan. Can kill a Warhound with one turn of shooting. Can deep strike no scatter with an allied Archaon.
Fair and Balanced!
Technically, they do not have the same firepower as a Titan because (1) Titan has more range; (2) Titan usually affects a lot more models with multiple shots and large template/blast; and, (3) Titan is way more survivable.
Wraithguard are limited to short range and need a serpent or WWP to get in place and even then, with proper tactics and play, you should be able to manage. You know, like keep units a certain distance to a particularly juicy target so that Eldar can't deepstrike close enough (bubble wrap strategy) or keep a target in reserves until Wraithguard deploy.
Furthermore, they are apparently no longer scoring so they cannot contest other objectives held by obsec.
Finally, being able to kill a Warhound and deepstrike without scatter (with an Archon which isn't actually part of the unit mind you) is not the criterion for determining if a unit is best evar or not.
Keep white knighting this farce while not actually providing realistic solutions to the problem.
"Guys, gee golly gosh haven't you heard of the tactic bubble wrap? It's super hard for eldar to peel it back with their bland toothless options."
So how many Eldar players do you regularly play against?
There are 6, then more that turn up at larger events. Your point is?
Are they normally the type of player that takes these crazy units? Is it a very competitive meta?
It's a mix, everyone wants to field their toys and nobody wants to play a guy that is pulling his punches. When a book like this drops it creates lose lose scenarios unless your playing hard core narrative. One guy gets to play with anything he wants, while his opponent always has to try to equal his opponent and when he loses you never played his full potential and when he wins he probably over stepped. It just makes a silly game state.
So more to your question, in a competitive tournament? Yea, generally when six guys are thumbing the button on the doomsday clock, none of them want to be the guy that hits it second. So we then have the crappy task of comping the feth out of the tournaments which usually inadvertently kneecaps the few outliers.
For pick up games it's not a major issue but only because almost no one will play them casually and defer to their other more "fun" armies. Which is a shame because I want to play eldar, but I also want to play a fair game where one guy doesn't pad his gloves.
I guess we have different outlooks on the game. Sure I like taking the units I want to take, but sometimes that just isn't possible due to them being either OP or UP. If I take too many of those units then the game simply isn't fun, since I am responsible for my own actions I then take other things. I don't consider taking the most broken units part of playing to my full potential btw. I try to take fairly balanced non cheesy lists so I can play to my full potential and feel like I earned it. If I have a list on the same power level as my opponent and I still beat him and he still blames it on me playing Eldar, it's not my fault he needs an excuse for losing, and honestly he probably would have blamed it on my list regardless of the army I played.
Actually I build lists just as you do. I think in a real game we'd have a blast That said I am not going to expect others to approach the game the same way and nor should I. Rules and balance are there for a reason, the burden shouldn't lie on the player to make a list that isn't too powerful. It's poor design.
Leth wrote: Ehh, Outside of bikes most of it looks alright.
Most tournaments have a hard LOW limit of one. Just because its in a decurion style does not mean it changes slots.
Hawks are kinda cool, looks like aspects might actually see some table time!! That is exciting, glad to see wave serpents toned down.
Alright, will have to wait and see overall but its not looking too bad. I bring AV 13 so bikes dont scare me much. Wraithknight is either shooting or CC D attacks not both. Auto 6 on run is pretty powerful, still losing OS is a rough hit.
Will have to see how lists shake out
Yes, but you seem to be forgetting the Wraithguard, Hemlock, and artillery have St D weapons as well. True, the d-scythes aren't AS nasty, but still, D3 wounds on a 3+ is a singificant boost over their original S4 Distort. A single 1850 CAD could have a WK, 3 5-man units of WG in wave serpents, a Hemlock, and at least one BATTERY of the D-cannon artillery. That is an insane amount of mostly durable ranged D in a standard game.
I was not forgetting about them at all. For a majority of targets outside of ignore saves on a 6 it is going to be business as before. The thing about D weapons is that they are all concentrated in a few units that are expensive at their cheapest. While it is very powerful against certain builds it is nearly worthless against others. You cant invest so much in one aspect, you need to diversify.
I am not saying that it is not powerful. It is quite powerful, but I just see myself taking two void shields and watching them either have to use their D(which is not that long of a range for most of it) to try and pop it or use their strength 6 trying to get through.
People who stopped buying GW but wont stop bitching about it are the vegans of warhammer
Renegades - 
That said I am not going to expect others to approach the game the same way and nor should I. Rules and balance are there for a reason, the burden shouldn't lie on the player to make a list that isn't too powerful. It's poor design.
