Eldar Rumors - Page 24/25 first info & pics.

Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:

No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.

If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

**KurtAngle2**

Blacksails wrote:
ronin_cse wrote:
Blacksails wrote:
ronin_cse wrote:
just a type of game design.

Yeah, its called bad.

In your opinion. In my opinion it is perfectly fine. There is absolutely NOTHING that makes your opinion more valid in this case than mine.

No, your opinion is that you like it.

It is bad game design whether or not you like it. Let me put it this way, if 40k had a list of goals it was trying to achieve through its rules, would it achieve any of them? Its not balanced, it doesn't mesh with the fluff, its complicated, its expensive, and it creates divisions between player types.

Its not easy or simple or balanced enough (or conversely, entirely random enough) to be beer and pretzels, and its not tight or balanced enough to be enjoyed competitively. It has no system for campaigns, and the balance issues lead to a poor game for scenario/themed battles.

The Eldar dex is only the latest symptom of this. Creating a blatantly overpowered codex is not good game design, unless you'd like to argue otherwise, besides stating that you like it.

And for the record, I'm not stating in any way shape or form that you can't or shouldn't enjoy playing 40k, but I'm calling out that 40k is anything other than good game design. I'd accept that GW has done some solid stuff with the game in the past that the current edition are built on, but they're not making it any better with the likes of books like this.

You could not have said it better

Exalted!

**Blacksails**

Mymearan wrote:
I'm sure a few of you have seen me defending GW in several threads. I have genuinely believed that they were on the right track with 7th and that the similar power level of all codices so far was a sign that they had started caring about balance. Even the Necron codex I could see as a lapse rather than the start of a trend. The excellent Skitarii release reassured me that I was right. Now... there's really nothing I can say. This is beyond my wildest fears, an abomination of a codex that has me considering selling my beloved Eldar and taking a long break from 40k. The worst thing is that this would probably not affect me personally in a huge way, since my group is largely casual. It's mainly that the faith I had in the future of the game has been completely shattered, and that has ruined most of the excitement and enthusiasm I have felt since getting back into 40k. Jesus.

Very well said.

GW has this weird track record of doing a string of acceptable to excellent releases on the rules and/or models front, then drop a few terrible bombs in between. Their consistency is their inconsistency.

Oh, and their ability to always have such great ideas, concepts, and theories, only to bungle it up on the execution.

**rollawaythestone**

Mymearan wrote:
I'm sure a few of you have seen me defending GW in several threads. I have genuinely believed that they were on the right track with 7th and that the similar power level of all codices so far was a sign that they had started caring about balance. Even the Necron codex I could see as a lapse rather than the start of a trend. The excellent Skitarii release reassured me that I was right. Now... there's really nothing I can say. This is beyond my wildest fears, an abomination of a codex that has me considering selling my beloved Eldar and taking a long break from 40k. The worst thing is that this would probably not affect me personally in a huge way, since my group is largely casual. It's mainly that the faith I had in the future of the game has been completely shattered, and that has ruined most of the excitement and enthusiasm I have felt since getting back into 40k. Jesus.

I feel you. My sentiments are generally optimistic and positive about Games Workshop. Slowly they have been building back up my trust over the months with some really stellar products and a trend (not consider Necrons) of really balanced and fun Codex's. But this really is one of those moments where they lost my trust and shake my confidence in the game as a whole.

**Thokt**

I'm pretty curious as to any changes for the Wraithlord.

**Warhams-77**

Iuchiban (aka the helpful person with the codex book on WS) is back

IMPORTANT UPDATE!!!!!

One thing I forgot before is that Exarchs have now 2 Wounds.

**Red Corsair**

Thokt wrote:
I'm pretty curious as to any changes for the Wraithlord.

Poor guy, I can't remember the last time I saw a wraithlord on a table. No joke.

**Mymearan**

WayneTheGame wrote:
Mymearan wrote:
I'm sure a few of you have seen me defending GW in several threads. I have genuinely believed that they were on the right track with 7th and that the similar power level of all codices so far was a sign that they had started caring about balance. Even the Necron codex I could see as a lapse rather than the start of a trend. The excellent Skitarii release reassured me that I was right. Now... there's really nothing I can say. This is beyond my wildest fears, an abomination of a codex that has me considering selling my beloved Eldar and taking a long break from 40k. The worst thing is that this would probably not affect me personally in a huge way, since my group is largely casual. It's mainly that the faith I had in the future of the game has been completely shattered, and that has ruined most of the excitement and enthusiasm I have felt since getting back into 40k. Jesus.

And this is what people seem to not realize. Unbalanced things like this hurt casual groups more than competitive players. Poor rules hurt casual gamers more than competitive ones.

Yep.

Tournament player: "God damn GW, you really fethed it up, but we'll ban this and restrict this and voila, problem solved! Now let's get back to ordering those jetbikes..."

Casual player: "Why are my guys so much better than his guys, for the same points? This isn't very fun... how am I supposed to know what to take to avoid situations like this? This seems arbitrary and unfair, and kills my enthusiasm"

**Blacksails**

Glorious.

Do we know how much the weapon options on the WraightKnight costs?

**TheKbob**

Another +1 to Blacksails, by the way. I'd like for the top players to prove this codex not OP, but then they have to allow a bunch of cheap D ranged weapons into the game first.

Eldar have volume, range, and quality of firepower all covered. And too fast to catch. Also, good luck tar pitting a Wraithknight... Remember, it stomps now, too!

**Red Corsair**

Warhams-77 wrote:
Iuchiban (aka the helpful person with the codex book on WS) is back

IMPORTANT UPDATE!!!!!

One thing I forgot before is that Exarchs have now 2 Wounds.

I like that, they were way too expensive after skill purchases to be worth it on a 1w model before.

Any news on the special characters?

**rollawaythestone**

Blacksails wrote:
Glorious.

Do we know how much the weapon options on the WraightKnight costs?

Sword + Shield: Free (Sword is Strenght D)
Solar cannon + Shield: Free
Wraithcannons are the default

**Vaktathi**

Blacksails wrote:
Mymearan wrote:
I'm sure a few of you have seen me defending GW in several threads. I have genuinely believed that they were on the right track with 7th and that the similar power level of all codices so far was a sign that they had started caring about balance. Even the Necron codex I could see as a lapse rather than the start of a trend. The excellent Skitarii release reassured me that I was right. Now... there's really nothing I can say. This is beyond my wildest fears, an abomination of a codex that has me considering selling my beloved Eldar and taking a long break from 40k. The worst thing is that this would probably not affect me personally in a huge way, since my group is largely casual. It's mainly that the faith I had in the future of the game has been completely shattered, and that has ruined most of the excitement and enthusiasm I have felt since getting back into 40k. Jesus.

Very well said.

GW has this weird track record of doing a string of acceptable to excellent releases on the rules and/or models front, then drop a few terrible bombs in between. Their consistency is their inconsistency.

Oh, and their ability to always have such great ideas, concepts, and theories, only to bungle it up on the execution.

GW consistently bungles the execution. They always have a ton of actually really very good ideas, and then go out of their way to do it in the worst, most unbalanced way possible.

**ImAGeek**

Blacksails wrote:
Glorious.

Do we know how much the weapon options on the WraightKnight costs?

I'm pretty sure I saw that they're all free... Comes with the two guns stock, and then free swaps for the gun and shield or sword and shield.

**Blacksails**

rollawaythestone wrote:
Blacksails wrote:
Glorious.

Do we know how much the weapon options on the WraightKnight costs?

Sword + Shield: Free (Sword is Strenght D)
Solar cannon + Shield: Free
Wraithcannons are the default

So any weapon option keeps it at 295? Does it have other wargear?

**Red Corsair**

rollawaythestone wrote:
Blacksails wrote:
Glorious.

Do we know how much the weapon options on the WraightKnight costs?

Sword + Shield: Free (Sword is Strenght D)
Solar cannon + Shield: Free
Wraithcannons are the default

No news on the scatter lasers and star canons though?

**Blacksails**

Vaktathi wrote:
GW consistently bungles the execution. They always have a ton of actually really very good ideas, and then go out of their way to do it in the worst, most unbalanced way possible.

Which is the sad and frustrating part.

**Warhams-77**

Red Corsair wrote:

Any news on the special characters?

Nothing yet afaik

**Thud**

Blacksails wrote:
Glorious.

Do we know how much the weapon options on the WraightKnight costs?

Free, if you're asking about the sword and shield/suncannon, but no words on the smaller gun options.

**Red Corsair**

Warhams-77 wrote:
Red Corsair wrote:

Any news on the special characters?

Nothing yet afaik

I'm dying to hear if Illics voidbringer is strength

**Warhams-77**

I like how Dakka already turns S D into

Illic will be badass if they dont change him

**Red Corsair**

Warhams-77 wrote:
I like how Dakka already turns S D into

**Vaktathi**

Blacksails wrote:
Vaktathi wrote:
GW consistently bungles the execution. They always have a ton of actually really very good ideas, and then go out of their way to do it in the worst, most unbalanced way possible.

Which is the sad and frustrating part.

Yeah, it's really very odd. It's like they actually take time to sit around and plan out "ok, what's the least intuitive way to actually implement this, that will cause maximum confusion and have the worst effect on balance?". The basic army construction rules are probably the best example I can think of

**JimOnMars**

pretre wrote:
JimOnMars wrote:
pretre wrote:
JimOnMars wrote:
Or this:

Each army gets a points multiplier, agreed to by the community. If we take Eldar as "1", then Necrons might be 1.3, Daemons 1.5, and weaker armies can be 2 - 2.5. For any game, just multiply the points to arrive at the handicapped points allowed in the list.

That is just too clunky to work. You'd have to bring an extra 2000-3000 points to an event depending on your army.

It wouldn't really be "extra", as the TO would publish a full list of the point values for any faction. It could get really complex, though, as people ally and add formations. Decurion might be 1.3, but CAD Necron might be 1.6, etc.

No, I get that. But if I'm a DA player say, I have to bring a 3750 point army to a 1500 point tournament.

Yea, that could be a problem.

Still, it would be fun to field a 300-boy green tide and still have 2 or 3 full CADs left over.

**Blacksails**

Vaktathi wrote:
Yeah, it's really very odd. It's like they actually take time to sit around and plan out "ok, what's the least intuitive way to actually implement this, that will cause maximum confusion and have the worst effect on balance?". The basic army construction rules are probably the best example I can think of

I still don't quite understand the army construction rules. :/

**Warhams-77**

Iuchiban - Warseer

Guardians detachments is:

1 Farseer
3 units of Guardians
1 Vyper Squadron
1 Unit of Warwalkers
1 Vaul's support battery
0-1 Warlock conclave

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?407490-Eldar-imminent&p=7426734&viewfull=1#post7426734

**Las**

TheKbob wrote:
Las wrote:

I'll do whatever I please. That's my point. Plastic space dudes isn't an all or nothing equation. Learn 2 live.

Ah, yes. The "I do what I want" strategy. You forgot the head bob and three finger snaps.

And your misdirection of an answer holds no relation to this problem. Good job!

What? I said I won't let one gak release ruin something I genuinely enjoy. I'll house rule, have convos before games, play with decent folks over people abusing a busted mechanic etc. I still have the right to criticize and discuss.

To answer your question directly, yes, if you were running a dumb Eldar list I would refuse to play you. Whatever. The person I play with the most is an Eldar player, we've already began the discussion on how to mitigate this clusterfeth. Were still gonna have fun with something we like.

**Vaktathi**

Blacksails wrote:
Vaktathi wrote:
Yeah, it's really very odd. It's like they actually take time to sit around and plan out "ok, what's the least intuitive way to actually implement this, that will cause maximum confusion and have the worst effect on balance?". The basic army construction rules are probably the best example I can think of

I still don't quite understand the army construction rules. :/

Yeah, I don't think most people do. It took me several months to get it.

I think...

**Kanluwen**

Warhams-77 wrote:
I like how Dakka already turns S D into

Illic will be badass if they dont change him

Honestly?

He was badass before. He just has gone from badass to Badass Mark II.

**niv-mizzet**

I was hoping to have fun at a few ITC events this year. Now it looks like matchups will be: roll a d6. On a 1, you get matched to a tourney eldar list and auto-lose. On a 2-6, play a game.

I wonder how the Eldar players would respond if people just started conceding in tourneys. And then congratulating the top non-eldar player for 4th place and ignoring the eldar trio in top 3.

Really I just hate GW for bringing up a situation where I instantly think less of another player because of what codex they have.

PS: my idea of having separate eldar-only tourneys is still on the table!

**Xerics**

Lol i stopped looking at the forums for a few months and a new book gets announced. I totally don't have at least 3 units of every Eldar Unit except for shining spears

Jetbikes with scatter lasers sounds OP. I'm not gunna complain but heavy weapons on troops in that quantity is rediculous. Although its nice to have troops with heavy weapons that dont die like guardsmen (Guardians).

The new wraithknight is probably undercosted. Ranged D weapons (which I am not gunna complain about either) LoW status (which kinds sucks for me as I have 4, but the new detachment can use as many as I want after the initial core tax), and a Gargantuan Creature. I am glad that the D weapons aren't pie plates. I hate drifitng away into nothing.

Also turning distortion weapons into D weapons makes sense lorewise but now wraithguard will just eat everything. I can't wait till my normal meta walks in with their 5 Imperial Knight army. Good times to come.

Already pre-ordered the Farseer edition. Can't wait to get it into my hands for the Apoc game in my area on May 31st