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rollawaythestone wrote:
Currently, the ITC has banned ranged D-weapons. They have said, depending on how things shake out with this book, that they may have to reconsider their policy or put it up for a new vote. But I think they are waiting to see what happens first.

For the sake of the meta, it may just be best to ban the new Eldar codex...

 Swabby wrote:
The only mess here is that people are childish enough to discount entire legal armies because they don't like their rules and declare that they are never going to play them.

I honestly do not think that the majority of the people playing this game today could even mentally survive the rogue trader era where you could literally just make things up.

It's not being childish, it's being rational. The changes we know about to the Eldar codex make it such a boost over the average power level of the other codices in this edition that I cannot see myself enjoying a game against this book. I'm not going to waste my time playing a game that is not fun to play. Therefore I am not going to play against Eldar players using this book.

I am probably not the only person thinking this way, and that sucks for Eldar players who just want to enjoy their army in a game. Barring a few, I don't think Eldar players appreciate having a book this broken either. It gives them a bad reputation through no fault of their own.

It's a terrible move by GW after the awesome Harlequin and Skitarii releases. It may not shape up to be as bad as it looks, but I think that this book is going to destroy the meta until it is replaced. There doesn't seem to be any way the core rules can change to tone down Eldar without torching other, actually balanced, codices in the process.

Yeah I don't think competitive eldar players would complain too much about being "forced" to use the current "most-often-1st-place-out-of-all-armies" 6th edition book.

Non-competitive eldar players shouldn't have a problem with that, since it's strictly a tourney ruling.

I'd be ok with a complete ban of the 7th Ed dex.

So, instead of adapting to the new codex, you'd rather just ban it?

Yeah, that'll make people happy. Ban their army!

Ya know, cause Eldar players totally have to be punished for something that's not their fault... /sarcasm

I can see shops running tourneys telling folks that they can't play with their armies. Sounds like a great business plan.

On the flip side, I really like what I see with this book so far. It appears it has options throughout the army to have the tools to handle nearly anything in 7th edition. For myself, that is a sign the writers understand the game and maybe the writers of some of the other books may not have had as keen an insight to 7th edition.

 PlaguelordHobbyServices wrote:
So, instead of adapting to the new codex, you'd rather just ban it?

Yeah, that'll make people happy. Ban their army!

How can say Orks or Dark Eldar possibly adapt to this codex?
Yes, it would suck for Eldar players to have their new book banned. GW put them in a terrible spot. But it may come down to banning one book and pissing off one group of players, or letting it break the 7th edition meta and pissing off the players of (what, 15?) other codex players.

Amusingly, just like the fluff, Eldar seem to be stirring up enough emotion to create a new Chaos god and rip a hole in the game, destroying themselves as a race.

Isnt it more reasonable to just place restrictions? "Only 1 LoW/superheavy/gargantuan, no ranged D, no codex FoC's, no formations, etc." There ya go, fixed a lot of problems without a flat out ban on a codex.

Doesn't address Jetbikes, but if its bad enough then a similar amendment can be made.

 Sarigar wrote:
I can see shops running tourneys telling folks that they can't play with their armies. Sounds like a great business plan.

On the flip side, I really like what I see with this book so far. It appears it has options throughout the army to have the tools to handle nearly anything in 7th edition. For myself, that is a sign the writers understand the game and maybe the writers of some of the other books may not have had as keen an insight to 7th edition.

Exactly. Any shop that bans this codex is going to lose out on sales. How is that good business sense? Instead of having a hissy fit, why not try to figure out ways to counter it. Other than Scatriders, there's nothing completely over the top. D weapons!! OH NOESS!!! Considering the limited amount that can be taken and other than the Heavy D Cannon, they are short ranged. Don't get to close and it won't be an issue. Usually Dakka members conduct themselves in a better manner than all the crying/quitting/bitching. If it's "too hard" for you, stop playing. Or at the very least, quit bitching about it. They fixed Serpents, what more do you want?

 MajorWesJanson wrote:

 PlaguelordHobbyServices wrote:
So, instead of adapting to the new codex, you'd rather just ban it?

Yeah, that'll make people happy. Ban their army!

How can say Orks or Dark Eldar possibly adapt to this codex?
Yes, it would suck for Eldar players to have their new book banned. GW put them in a terrible spot. But it may come down to banning one book and pissing off one group of players, or letting it break the 7th edition meta and pissing off the players of (what, 15?) other codex players.

Amusingly, just like the fluff, Eldar seem to be stirring up enough emotion to create a new Chaos god and rip a hole in the game, destroying themselves as a race.

Sounds like you need to join Operation Pitchfork. We the players are fed up with the Eldar.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/645028.page#7762955

 PlaguelordHobbyServices wrote:
So, instead of adapting to the new codex, you'd rather just ban it?

Yeah, that'll make people happy. Ban their army!

Ya know, cause Eldar players totally have to be punished for something that's not their fault... /sarcasm

They could still use their sixth edition book, which has been VERY battle-tested and found to be not lacking by any stretch, to put it mildly.
To put it more bluntly, they already have one of the strongest dexes, with only necrons putting up a fight for that title.

Can you explain why you would be against a TOURNEY ONLY restriction of using the 6e book until more books come out that can fight the 7e version on even footing? It doesn't affect you on your Saturday random pick up games or your narrative campaign. It only affects you if you go to tournaments to pit your army piloting skills against other players.

As a tournament organizer/designer, I would want the tourney to be as even of ground as possible, so that a combination of player skill and some luck will win the day, NOT who just brought the most broken codex.

Allowing the 7e eldar book in is akin to allowing a vintage M:TG deck into a standard tournament. One of them is clearly at an advantage regardless of the pilot.

To take a wee break from the whine and cheese and back to rumours - any word on what the next batch of Eldar model releases will be?

 Gamgee wrote:

 MajorWesJanson wrote:

 PlaguelordHobbyServices wrote:
So, instead of adapting to the new codex, you'd rather just ban it?

Yeah, that'll make people happy. Ban their army!

How can say Orks or Dark Eldar possibly adapt to this codex?
Yes, it would suck for Eldar players to have their new book banned. GW put them in a terrible spot. But it may come down to banning one book and pissing off one group of players, or letting it break the 7th edition meta and pissing off the players of (what, 15?) other codex players.

Amusingly, just like the fluff, Eldar seem to be stirring up enough emotion to create a new Chaos god and rip a hole in the game, destroying themselves as a race.

Sounds like you need to join Operation Pitchfork. We the players are fed up with the Eldar.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/645028.page#7762955

Operation Pitchfork? Details please.

I've already sent a couple of (polite) e-mails to GW customer service about the topic.

niv-mizzet wrote:

 PlaguelordHobbyServices wrote:
So, instead of adapting to the new codex, you'd rather just ban it?

Yeah, that'll make people happy. Ban their army!

Ya know, cause Eldar players totally have to be punished for something that's not their fault... /sarcasm

They could still use their sixth edition book, which has been VERY battle-tested and found to be not lacking by any stretch, to put it mildly.
To put it more bluntly, they already have one of the strongest dexes, with only necrons putting up a fight for that title.

Can you explain why you would be against a TOURNEY ONLY restriction of using the 6e book until more books come out that can fight the 7e version on even footing? It doesn't affect you on your Saturday random pick up games or your narrative campaign. It only affects you if you go to tournaments to pit your army piloting skills against other players.

As a tournament organizer/designer, I would want the tourney to be as even of ground as possible, so that a combination of player skill and some luck will win the day, NOT who just brought the most broken codex.

Allowing the 7e eldar book in is akin to allowing a vintage M:TG deck into a standard tournament. One of them is clearly at an advantage regardless of the pilot.

How about because if someone buys the book, they should be allowed to use it. I didn't see anyone complaining when Imperial Knights got released and no one could beat them, I didn't see anyone complaining when Space marines got a bunch of broken stuff... No, it's just when Xeno armies get good stuff that you all like to complain... Personally, I think Marines should go back to being 30pts a piece with their current statline, no changes. But that goes against GW's motto of selling you tons of new shiny models.

I'm pretty keen to run an unbound army of only HQ, with the Autarchs playing as exarchs of the different shrines, with an Avatar. Court of the Young king forever!

And I may even be able to paint that whole army, seeing as it is only going to be a few models. Who knows

 Januine wrote:
To take a wee break from the whine and cheese and back to rumours - any word on what the next batch of Eldar model releases will be?

As far as we know, this week is is. Just Jetbikes, a couple plastic HQs, and the destruction of 7th edition.

 PlaguelordHobbyServices wrote:
How about because if someone buys the book, they should be allowed to use it. I didn't see anyone complaining when Imperial Knights got released and no one could beat them, I didn't see anyone complaining when Space marines got a bunch of broken stuff... No, it's just when Xeno armies get good stuff that you all like to complain... Personally, I think Marines should go back to being 30pts a piece with their current statline, no changes. But that goes against GW's motto of selling you tons of new shiny models.

I remember tons of complaints about Knights, and even more once Adamantium Lance hit. And they are 370ish a pop with a CC only D weapon, not less than 300 like the Wraithkniht is with it's ranged D guns.
ASTKNF gets a lot of complaints. Locally, it is called "And they shall know no rules," which I agree with. Thunderwolves and Grav Centurions also catch a lot of flak.
I also remember all the complaints about Orks and Dark Eldar being UNDERpowered (I've ranted on length about how useless Wych Cults are now)

Trying to shift the blame to other broken units is not going to make the new Eldar book any less unbalanced.

 MajorWesJanson wrote:

 Januine wrote:
To take a wee break from the whine and cheese and back to rumours - any word on what the next batch of Eldar model releases will be?

As far as we know, this week is is. Just Jetbikes, a couple plastic HQs

Balls - thought the Aspects were getting all plasticated

Someone posted this on a facebook group... I had to share!

Who cares if Eldar are unbalanced? So are Tau, Centurions, daemon summoning, Necrons, Knights and about half the rest of the game. Removing Eldar isn't suddenly going to give Orks and Dark Eldar players a chance at winning GT's, they'll just go from getting effortlessly curb stomped by Eldar to getting effortlessly curbstomped by something else.

40K is a broken game. Removing just one aspect of the broken system isn't going to do anything but piss people off.

 PlaguelordHobbyServices wrote:

niv-mizzet wrote:

 PlaguelordHobbyServices wrote:
So, instead of adapting to the new codex, you'd rather just ban it?

Yeah, that'll make people happy. Ban their army!

Ya know, cause Eldar players totally have to be punished for something that's not their fault... /sarcasm

They could still use their sixth edition book, which has been VERY battle-tested and found to be not lacking by any stretch, to put it mildly.
To put it more bluntly, they already have one of the strongest dexes, with only necrons putting up a fight for that title.

Can you explain why you would be against a TOURNEY ONLY restriction of using the 6e book until more books come out that can fight the 7e version on even footing? It doesn't affect you on your Saturday random pick up games or your narrative campaign. It only affects you if you go to tournaments to pit your army piloting skills against other players.

As a tournament organizer/designer, I would want the tourney to be as even of ground as possible, so that a combination of player skill and some luck will win the day, NOT who just brought the most broken codex.

Allowing the 7e eldar book in is akin to allowing a vintage M:TG deck into a standard tournament. One of them is clearly at an advantage regardless of the pilot.

How about because if someone buys the book, they should be allowed to use it. I didn't see anyone complaining when Imperial Knights got released and no one could beat them, I didn't see anyone complaining when Space marines got a bunch of broken stuff... No, it's just when Xeno armies get good stuff that you all like to complain... Personally, I think Marines should go back to being 30pts a piece with their current statline, no changes. But that goes against GW's motto of selling you tons of new shiny models.

Please, Eldar have been OP since 2nd edition, short of 5th, and Xenos? Ha, revisionist history! Do you not forget 5th Edition Grey Knights, 5th edition BA and SW? 3.5 BA and 3.5 Chaos? 6th edition Heldrakes (While having an absolutely horrible codex otherwise mind you)

 BlaxicanX wrote:
Who cares if Eldar are unbalanced? So are Tau, Centurions, daemon summoning, Necrons, Knights and about half the rest of the game. Removing Eldar isn't suddenly going to give Orks and Dark Eldar players a chance at winning GT's, they'll just go from getting effortlessly curb stomped by Eldar to getting effortlessly curbstomped by something else.

40K is a broken game. Removing just one aspect of the broken system isn't going to do anything but piss people off.

Thank you!

Instead of ostracizing people and shooing them away from the game, just be patient, we're getting a codex release practically every month now... just wait. Something else will come along and it'll be even more busted. and Probably Imperial flavored to boot just to piss even more people off.

 BlaxicanX wrote:
Who cares if Eldar are unbalanced? So are Tau, Centurions, daemon summoning, Necrons, Knights and about half the rest of the game. Removing Eldar isn't suddenly going to give Orks and Dark Eldar players a chance at winning GT's, they'll just go from getting effortlessly curb stomped by Eldar to getting effortlessly curbstomped by something else.

40K is a broken game. Removing just one aspect of the broken system isn't going to do anything but piss people off.

1000 mile journey, single step etc etc.

Maybe if they stopped getting paydays for having a broken game, we'd have a better one.

And I've seen some ork lists do rather well in tourneys. And not all of them with green tide either!

 BlaxicanX wrote:
Who cares if Eldar are unbalanced? So are Tau, Centurions, daemon summoning, Necrons, Knights and about half the rest of the game. Removing Eldar isn't suddenly going to give Orks and Dark Eldar players a chance at winning GT's, they'll just go from getting effortlessly curb stomped by Eldar to getting effortlessly curbstomped by something else.

40K is a broken game. Removing just one aspect of the broken system isn't going to do anything but piss people off.

Makes me laugh that people's defence to a broken release is 'the games already broken' as if that isn't a massive issue in the game.

Except this isn't just oh one thing is OP. It's game bustingly bad. I honestly haven't seen one viable non unbound strategy for dealing with this. They all lose and they do it very quickly.

 ImAGeek wrote:

 BlaxicanX wrote:
Who cares if Eldar are unbalanced? So are Tau, Centurions, daemon summoning, Necrons, Knights and about half the rest of the game. Removing Eldar isn't suddenly going to give Orks and Dark Eldar players a chance at winning GT's, they'll just go from getting effortlessly curb stomped by Eldar to getting effortlessly curbstomped by something else.

40K is a broken game. Removing just one aspect of the broken system isn't going to do anything but piss people off.

Makes me laugh that people's defence to a broken release is 'the games already broken' as if that isn't a massive issue in the game.

How does banning Eldar fix all of the game's other issues?

Also, I feel it goes without saying really, but if anyone is seriously considering a boycott then you need to stop buying GW products period. Don't "boycott" by not buying a new Eldar army that you weren't going to buy in the first place. All you guys that gave them huge gobs of money for the silly-looking Ad Mech stuff or your new Space Marine army or whatever are just as guilty of enabling this bullgak as anyone else. Don't start blaming Eldar players for the state of the game and treating them like they ruined 40k when you've been telling GW for months now that what they've been doing with the game is acceptable.

 Sidstyler wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:

 BlaxicanX wrote:
Who cares if Eldar are unbalanced? So are Tau, Centurions, daemon summoning, Necrons, Knights and about half the rest of the game. Removing Eldar isn't suddenly going to give Orks and Dark Eldar players a chance at winning GT's, they'll just go from getting effortlessly curb stomped by Eldar to getting effortlessly curbstomped by something else.

40K is a broken game. Removing just one aspect of the broken system isn't going to do anything but piss people off.

Makes me laugh that people's defence to a broken release is 'the games already broken' as if that isn't a massive issue in the game.

How does banning Eldar fix all of the game's other issues?

I never said anything about banning Eldar.

Whatever, doesn't matter what GW does.

People who play with people they know will be fine as they can agree on making the game sensible, this has been the case for decades. Tournaments will adjust the rules accordingly to disallow anything ridiculous.

Only people who play pick up games will suffer really. Not the end of the world, but seems like quite a big mistake on GW's behalf. I'll still wait to see the full book and details.

 TheNewBlood wrote:
Let's all take a moment and remember that the source of this latest round of rumors is literally some guy on Warseer who says he has the codex. The only reason people are taking this seriously is because BoLS posted it as clickbait.

Rumors confirming everyone's worst fears? Check.

No pictures? Check.

I call BS.

He might have great rumor accuracy in the past, but I'll swallow an entire saltshaker before I believe what this guy is saying.

1. The guy has done this with numerous codexes before and always been truthful
2. He has numerous pics of him holding the book and the book in his hand, just because you haven't bothered to read the whole thread doesn't mean they aren't there
3. Please post video of yourself doing the salt challenge once you have the book in hand and confirm all this for yourself


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 whembly wrote:

Hollismason wrote:
This codex is broken, please explain how this is even remotely a balanced codex.

Can't wait for the Apologists, this is garbage just garbage.

Consider it a challenge buddy!

I know you play CSM... bring helldrakes!

I know you play DE... use the null deployment options, and no-scatter DS wwp!!!

I play lotsa of Orks... we can saturate the table like nobody's business. You wanna bring max jetbikes on the table? Fine... come eat the GREEN TIDE!!!

Awesome, I'll kill 90 boys and 2-3 battle wagons per turn. Good luck.

Well, personally I think the balance problem of 40k is mainly NOT related to the rules. Most of the problems just come from some ...(fill in an unkind word for guys with minor intelligence) rolling a D6 to determine point costs of a unit. But this is something that can be fixed. The easiest way to do so is introducing a handicap related to the power level of the codices.

So just an example with some made up numbers:

Eldar 0.83
Orks 1.3

If the tournament says 1850 points, you just multiply that number with the handicap and get a new maximum point value for each army. So in this example orks are allowed to field 2405 points while Eldar just get 1536 points. As I said, the numbers are totally made up and not based on a realistic codex analysis.

This would not fix any of the internal balance issues of most codices, so you ll keep seeing the same boring lists, but it would stop tournaments beeing won by the same races every time. Problem is to determine the right handicap values, but therefore you can keep adjusting them until they seem almost right.

Really dont understand why tournamants dont already have a system like this and support GWs pay to win strategy...

Greetings

The houserule for this new codex eldar is simple for our gaming group...

Str D ranged --> str 10

Jetbikes: 1/3 heavy weapons

That should make it a reasonable codex.

Didn't fantasy do comp rules?