GenCon threatens to leave Indiana

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**jasper76**

MeanGreenStompa wrote:
Considering the screaming fit a lot of self-proclaimed 'christians' have about the 'war' on their faith and how discriminated against they are...

You'd have thought they'd have a more tolerant attitude, but apparently actually following what Christ taught isn't as important as selectively following bits of (but directly ignoring or flouting other bits of) Leviticus.

Now, that's 'so called' Christians, so if you're throwing a fit because I've said that, you're placing yourself in that category, not actual Christian, but one who selectively picks and chooses which parts of the bible are set in stone rules and which parts are just too vague to actually work out and should be widely ignored in your day to day life.

To be fair, all Christians do this. All Chrsitians have to do this, although some have convinced themselves that they've landed on the "true" interpretation of the Bible, the simple fact is the Bible, both Old and New Testaments, is choc-ful-o very nasty things, most of which have already been jettisoned by the majority of Christians. It just so happens that, generally speaking, tolerance of homosexuality hasn't been successfully integrated into the Christian worldview for many Christians.

**Co'tor Shas**

Grey Templar wrote:
Afraid that's not how it works. Nature isn't in the same state it was when it was created. It is fallen and corrupted, so even if there is a genetic predisposition towards being gay(and the supposed evidence is quite shakey for that) it isn't evidence god is OK with being gay. Especially since the bible explicitly says its wrong, all forms of it. Be it men with men or women with women.

And people actually wonder why people are anti-religion.

**Bookwrack**

jasper76 wrote:
MeanGreenStompa wrote:
Considering the screaming fit a lot of self-proclaimed 'christians' have about the 'war' on their faith and how discriminated against they are...

You'd have thought they'd have a more tolerant attitude, but apparently actually following what Christ taught isn't as important as selectively following bits of (but directly ignoring or flouting other bits of) Leviticus.

Now, that's 'so called' Christians, so if you're throwing a fit because I've said that, you're placing yourself in that category, not actual Christian, but one who selectively picks and chooses which parts of the bible are set in stone rules and which parts are just too vague to actually work out and should be widely ignored in your day to day life.

To be fair, all Christians do this. All Chrsitians have to do this, although some have convinced themselves that they've landed on the "true" interpretation of the Bible,

CAse in point, Grey Templar's entry a couple posts up.

**jasper76**

Grey Templar wrote:
Afraid that's not how it works. Nature isn't in the same state it was when it was created. It is fallen and corrupted, so even if there is a genetic predisposition towards being gay(and the supposed evidence is quite shakey for that) it isn't evidence god is OK with being gay. Especially since the bible explicitly says its wrong, all forms of it. Be it men with men or women with women.

The Bible also says mixing fabrics is an abomination. Jesus never gave anyone a pass on this rule. Go check your shirt tags!

**Grey Templar**

I could find explanations of those but frankly you aren't worth my time.

**jasper76**

Grey Templar wrote:
I could find explanations of those but frankly you aren't worth my time.

Fair enough. I'd hate for you to waste your precious time on someone as worthless as myself

**JohnHwangDD**

This is not fun for me, so I'm begging off. I still hope GenCon moves closer to SoCal.

**Ustrello**

Actually a Christian who quotes and follows the Torah and OT are basically saying Jesus was not the son of God. Since him dying on the cross absolved us of our sins and thus fulfilling the Torah.

**Ouze**

Grey Templar wrote:
I could find explanations of those but frankly you aren't worth my time.

I'm gonna have to play this card the next time someone calls me on one of my weak arguments.

**Co'tor Shas**

Hey, GreyTemplar, have you ever talked backed to or cursed at your parents?

**timetowaste85**

Hahaha. That's a GREAT argument, Grey!

Mods, I think you can officially kill the thread. I don't think anything worse can get posted now.

**Bookwrack**

Grey Templar wrote:
I could find explanations of those but frankly you aren't worth my time.

IIRC, the bible has a thing or two to say about people who are religious when it suits them, but abandon it the moment it becomes the least bit inconvenient.

If you're going to stand on the corner and cry out your faith for all to see and hear, you should be prepared for people to stop and point out the rather gaping holes in what you're trying to proclaim..

**squidhills**

jasper76 wrote:
Come to Baltimore! The culture clash would be hilarious to behold.

Oh heck, no. Baltimore can barely handle the 36,000 it gets from Otacon every year. 50,000 con goers would be too much. There isn't enough parking in the whole city for that many people. And have you tried to get something to eat when Otacon is in town? Ever since the Harbor Place food court got gutted (its a boring shadow of its former glory) the lines at restaraunts are almost as long as the line to get into Otacon itself.

I don't know if DC can handle the 50,000 people (never been to the convention center there) but I do know that their metro system (despite being horrible at the best of times) will help reduce the need for parking for con attendees. So DC has that over Baltimore, at least.

**cincydooley**

Grey Templar wrote:

Afraid that's not how it works. Nature isn't in the same state it was when it was created. It is fallen and corrupted, so even if there is a genetic predisposition towards being gay(and the supposed evidence is quite shakey for that) it isn't evidence god is OK with being gay. Especially since the bible explicitly says its wrong, all forms of it. Be it men with men or women with women.

You're allowed to interpret it that way. I'm not naive enough to think everything transcribed over 3000 years is in it's original form, so I choose not to.

There's literally zero concrete evidence either way, and if I'm "allowed" to believe that evolution is a real thing per Canon, then I'm pretty comfortable making the pretty short leap from evolution to homosexuality as a mutation of evolution.

That's on top of the fact that it's absolutely none of my business who you're fething in the confines of your private home.

I know it makes me a "bad" Catholic, but if my God has trouble reconciling that with me, I'll find out when I'm dead.

**MeanGreenStompa**

Grey Templar wrote:
I could find explanations of those but frankly you aren't worth my time.

...There isn't a jpeg of Wonka big enough for this on the entire internet...

**cincydooley**

But seriously. Downtown Indy rocks.

**Peregrine**

Grey Templar wrote:
Nature isn't in the same state it was when it was created.

You say this like it's fact. It isn't.

It is fallen and corrupted, so even if there is a genetic predisposition towards being gay(and the supposed evidence is quite shakey for that) it isn't evidence god is OK with being gay.

Sure it is. God is supposedly omnipotent and omniscient. God created the world (according to Christian mythology) in such a way that it would "fall" into its current state instead of into some hypothetical alternate state in which homosexuality doesn't exist. If god isn't ok with being gay then god is a sadistic monster who creates gay people and then punishes them for being gay.

Especially since the bible explicitly says its wrong, all forms of it. Be it men with men or women with women.

The bible also says a lot of things that most Christians ignore (or explain away) to make their religion match their existing moral beliefs. Do you have an argument for homosexuality being a sin that isn't just "because god said so"?

**jasper76**

squidhills wrote:
jasper76 wrote:
Come to Baltimore! The culture clash would be hilarious to behold.

Oh heck, no. Baltimore can barely handle the 36,000 it gets from Otacon every year. 50,000 con goers would be too much. There isn't enough parking in the whole city for that many people. And have you tried to get something to eat when Otacon is in town? Ever since the Harbor Place food court got gutted (its a boring shadow of its former glory) the lines at restaraunts are almost as long as the line to get into Otacon itself.

I don't know if DC can handle the 50,000 people (never been to the convention center there) but I do know that their metro system (despite being horrible at the best of times) will help reduce the need for parking for con attendees. So DC has that over Baltimore, at least.

DC gets about 700,000 people each 4th of July, but the Verizon Center is probably the biggest venue, and it has a capacity of only ~18K as far as google says. I've never been to a big convention like this, so I don't even know if they're like held in one building, multiple buildings, outdoors, all of the above, or what.

P.S. I rather like the DC Metro system. Not during rush hour, and I don't work in DC so I don't take it anywhere near regularly or anything,but its nice to have around for travel into DC, and it gets you virtually anywhere in the city you'd want to go with no need for a car or cabs.

**kronk**

Frazzled wrote:

Whats Indianapolis like?

Friendly people, good food. The local yocals gawk a bit at the weirdos at the Con, but understand how much $$$ they pump into the local restaurants and hotels.

Many times the hotel capacity of Milwaukee, parking isn't wonderful, but it's there if you stay at a hotel. A large mall near the convention hall. Plenty of restaurants from $ to $$$$.

I like it.

To Frazz: St. Elmo's Steakhouse is as good as any steak I've had in Texas. Excluding my own, of course.

**Peregrine**

Grey Templar wrote:
I could find explanations of those but frankly you aren't worth my time.

Of course you can find explanations, because virtually everyone has moral ideas from outside the bible and agrees that petty rules about fabric contents are not relevant in modern society. So they interpret the bible in a way that aligns with their morality and emphasize the passages which can be interpreted as "these laws no longer apply". Anti-gay people, on the other hand, emphasize the passages which can be interpreted as "these laws still apply" to support their existing anti-gay opinions. The fact that most Christians have carefully constructed an interpretation of the bible that suits their moral beliefs does not negate the argument that they're being selective about which laws to apply.

**Ouze**

cincydooley wrote:
I'm pretty comfortable making the pretty short leap from evolution to homosexuality as a mutation of evolution.

As mutations go, there are probably more useful ones, especially when fighting the Juggernaut or Magneto.

**jasper76**

**Co'tor Shas**

Hey, if being gay makes you as awesome as him, I'm game. Now hand me that plutonium.

Edit: seriously, 2 seconds!

**Ouze**

I've loved George Takei even since the Tim Hardaway thing.

**WrentheFaceless**

This thread both made me give up then reconfirm my faith in humanity within a few pages

Gencon should move to SoCal, I need more conventions to go to around here

**ScootyPuffJunior**

Ouze wrote:
cincydooley wrote:
I'm pretty comfortable making the pretty short leap from evolution to homosexuality as a mutation of evolution.

As mutations go, there are probably more useful ones, especially when fighting the Juggernaut or Magneto.

Thank you.... thank you for that. I think it at least partially redeemed this thread from the extreme level of derp it had achieved.

**jasper76**

Ouze wrote:
I've loved George Takei even since the Tim Hardaway thing.

Classic

**Orlanth**

Grey Templar wrote:

Because Gencon brings in a lot of money and they're not going to be dealing with the mom and pop stores who will actually use this law. Anyone who knows anything about business will be able to reach the same conclusion. its a non-issue for Gencon and anyone who attends.

And anyone who boycotts gencon because of what Indiana politics are doing isn't someone I would personally want attending. That attitude is toxic for a convention atmosphere. We go to conventions to have a good time, not scrabble over politics.

This.

I believe the letter and possible pull out is just a move by some of the organisers to stick a knife in politically, as the games industry isn't really big enough to do that normally its a tool for the personal politics of the GenCon organisers. It has nothing to do with protecting attendees.

However it has hit mainstream press attention and thus given GenCon some valuable publicity. Gaming is itself becoming less fringe but not mainstream enough that enough people have heard of it.

**Dreadclaw69**

kronk wrote:
Frazzled wrote:

Whats Indianapolis like?

Friendly people, good food. The local yocals gawk a bit at the weirdos at the Con, but understand how much $$$ they pump into the local restaurants and hotels.

Many times the hotel capacity of Milwaukee, parking isn't wonderful, but it's there if you stay at a hotel. A large mall near the convention hall. Plenty of restaurants from $ to $$$$.

I like it.

To Frazz: St. Elmo's Steakhouse is as good as any steak I've had in Texas. Excluding my own, of course.

The NRA also host there conferences there quite a bit, so location aside Indy must be doing something right.

**Bookwrack**

Orlanth wrote:
Grey Templar wrote:

Because Gencon brings in a lot of money and they're not going to be dealing with the mom and pop stores who will actually use this law. Anyone who knows anything about business will be able to reach the same conclusion. its a non-issue for Gencon and anyone who attends.

And anyone who boycotts gencon because of what Indiana politics are doing isn't someone I would personally want attending. That attitude is toxic for a convention atmosphere. We go to conventions to have a good time, not scrabble over politics.

This.

I believe the letter and possible pull out is just a move by some of the organisers to stick a knife in politically, as the games industry isn't really big enough to do that normally its a tool for the personal politics of the GenCon organisers. It has nothing to do with protecting attendees.

This is the only thing that needs to be said in respose to that utter nonsense.

Grey Templar wrote:
Its going to punish the economy of the states that drove them out.

They shall reap what they have sown, and it will be a bitter cup indeed.