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I would if I could Decay, haven't even built any vanguard yet.

From what I've been reading and/or viewing on the battle reports... I'm not sure if the rangers are as good as we'd hoped they'd be, though they do give a bit of ranged fire power when sitting back on objectives.

Decay wrote:
I've got a question about my Skitarii army if anyone here wants to answer it. In my 600pts force I have 5 squads of Vanguard, 3 with just carbines, 1 with Arc weaponry, last with plasma, these are all 5 man squads. My question is, should I replace on of the carbine squads with a 5 man Ranger squad with just rifles? I'm unsure about the idea, but I can see many positives and negatives about it. I think that a small Ranger squad like this would do some damage to Xenos and Guard, but I'm unsure. Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Yes. Rangers are far better objective holders than Vanguard. Even though Rangers are worse up-close, they have almost twice the range and are good at anti-Xenos.

7th one back up before your post Verviedi. About the Rangers.

Decay wrote:
7th one back up before your post Verviedi. About the Rangers.

Look up 1.

 Gitsplitta wrote:

I've got 4 boxes of the infiltrators/rust stalkers & I'm trying to decide how to build them. My initial thought was to build two squads of infiltrators and two of rust stalkers as I think that's the most versatile disposition of the units & gives me the option of hitting at multiple locations on the battlefield using the infiltrators debuff & rust stalker assault synergy. I am torn though, as the special 1x infiltrator, 3x rust stalker formation (detachment?) would allow me to easily take that group with one of my other Imperial armies.

honestly, I would not go for Kilclade

The kilclade is pretty easy to gimp, just exterminate the 1 unit of infiltrators and then you are left with 3 units of ruststalkers that arent very good on their own.
To field it right, you need that 1 unit of infiltrators to be 10 strong and the 3 rust stalkers to be 5 man each. so as to make it more difficult to gimp the formation.

Now if I had 4 boxes. I would make 2 10 man units. 1 of infiltrators and 1 of ruststalkers. I could then field a variety of unit combos, although I could not field a kilclade, I could pretty easily add a few more ruststalkers if I wanted to make 1 10 man into 3 5man.


Also consider converting the 5th unit out of something else. Lots of options. I have a unit of mechanical chaos spawn i use for ruststalker.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Verviedi wrote:

Decay wrote:
I've got a question about my Skitarii army if anyone here wants to answer it. In my 600pts force I have 5 squads of Vanguard, 3 with just carbines, 1 with Arc weaponry, last with plasma, these are all 5 man squads. My question is, should I replace on of the carbine squads with a 5 man Ranger squad with just rifles? I'm unsure about the idea, but I can see many positives and negatives about it. I think that a small Ranger squad like this would do some damage to Xenos and Guard, but I'm unsure. Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Yes. Rangers are far better objective holders than Vanguard. Even though Rangers are worse up-close, they have almost twice the range and are good at anti-Xenos.

Vanguard are your bread and butter. They are better than rangers, but that isnt to say you dont want ANY rangers.

Vanguard are great, but they need to be tooled. They need to have additional weapons, transports, a unit ends up costing 150-250 points with transport.

Rangers on the other hand are about as good as they get in small units, without transports, and naked. 60 points get you 5 sharpshooters to sit on a backfield objective. They can also move around during the game to try and get a more distant objective.

If you have 5 squads of vanguard already. I would add a small squad of rangers.

Also double up on the specials. Make 2 units of 5 men with 2 arc rifles and 2 units of 5 men with 2 plasma. Then one mixed squad.

Alright guys, so I will be attending a tournament that requires I only run two sources. For that reason I have had to get creative with my Skitarii.

That being said check out this idea.

10x vanguard, 3x plasma, Ulrik, Cypher, two Iron priests with cyber wolves.

Soooo gooooddd

Thanks, I now how 4 Vanguard squads for attacking and a Ranger squad for objective holding and some sniping. I can't really fit in any more specials in at this level because it's only 600pts, but I have enough I think for now. I love Rangers anyway, their look, weapons and fluff.

Thanks for the advice, it really helps. I'll do 10 and 10 as it sounds like the better option.

Anyone got any stats for the Kastelan robots?
I just absolutely love the look of them and might start a Dark Mechanicus army around them.

Look at this week's WD.

They are in the WD.

Going to get a game in today at GW. Will give a Batrep afterwards.
Will be running Skitarii + Tau against GK.

Two more questions guys.

I actually started working on my infiltrators this morning and have been going through the painstaking operation of cleaning up all the bits. Assuming I'm going to need a 2 alphas (doing 10, so potentially 2 squads), what war gear should the alphas have? The squad will have the taser goads and fleshette pistols as it seems those are the most efficient. I'd planned on adding the skulls at the least, but the alphas do get to choose from special war gear and relics. Is there anything worthwhile or are they best with the same equipment as everyone else?

Also, suggestions for where to put the warlord & how to equip him?

Sorry for the basic questions... I'm not very good at working out list synergies. The army I plan on building will be probably 2 short squads of rangers to hold objectives and snipe from the rear, 2-3 full squads of vanguard to escort up to 3 knight titans who will be advancing fast to put pressure on my opponent and to take some of the heat off of the infiltrators and rust stalkers.

Thanks!

 Verviedi wrote:
Most likely some Canticle of the Omnissiah combined with formation is going to buff the ever-living hell out of them, and the meta shall cry tears of blood.

... he said, mere hours before rumors of a BS+1, Ignores Cover formation made Eldar players piss blood.

 Gitsplitta wrote:
Two more questions guys.

I actually started working on my infiltrators this morning and have been going through the painstaking operation of cleaning up all the bits. Assuming I'm going to need a 2 alphas (doing 10, so potentially 2 squads), what war gear should the alphas have? The squad will have the taser goads and fleshette pistols as it seems those are the most efficient. I'd planned on adding the skulls at the least, but the alphas do get to choose from special war gear and relics. Is there anything worthwhile or are they best with the same equipment as everyone else?

I gave an Infiltrator Alpha the Phase Taser, a Coversion Field, and Digital Weapons.

Found that it worked REALLY well yesterday.
Can also say that Flechette Pistols work well, even in a squad of 5 Infiltrators.

Also, suggestions for where to put the warlord & how to equip him?

Sorry for the basic questions... I'm not very good at working out list synergies. The army I plan on building will be probably 2 short squads of rangers to hold objectives and snipe from the rear, 2-3 full squads of vanguard to escort up to 3 knight titans who will be advancing fast to put pressure on my opponent and to take some of the heat off of the infiltrators and rust stalkers.

Thanks!

I'm partial to a Ranger Alpha in a 3x Arquebus squad as Warlord. If you roll that 6 for a Warlord trait, that unit is hell on chargers in Overwatch.

Yes he is a decent choice, OR you can put him in vanguard with three plasma and use preferred enemy to reroll ones to hit and wound. With BS 5 or higher its devastating.

 Gitsplitta wrote:
Two more questions guys.

I actually started working on my infiltrators this morning and have been going through the painstaking operation of cleaning up all the bits. Assuming I'm going to need a 2 alphas (doing 10, so potentially 2 squads), what war gear should the alphas have? The squad will have the taser goads and fleshette pistols as it seems those are the most efficient. I'd planned on adding the skulls at the least, but the alphas do get to choose from special war gear and relics. Is there anything worthwhile or are they best with the same equipment as everyone else?

Also, suggestions for where to put the warlord & how to equip him?

Sorry for the basic questions... I'm not very good at working out list synergies. The army I plan on building will be probably 2 short squads of rangers to hold objectives and snipe from the rear, 2-3 full squads of vanguard to escort up to 3 knight titans who will be advancing fast to put pressure on my opponent and to take some of the heat off of the infiltrators and rust stalkers.

Thanks!

The phosphur pistol is also a great item on the infiltrator sarge. Gives them some decent low ap shots, and can soften some of the tougher squads before they jump into combat.

Still not sure where to put the warlord, he is good in vanguard to give them all prefered enemy,

I think one thing to bare in mind as well is I don't think we should view skitarii as a stand alone army. I've refered lately with my gaming buddies that right now we seem to be in the middile of a "Martian spring" consider, we've gotten Skitarii, Imperial Knights, and are about to get the cult mechanius. I really think we may want to consider down the line how these 3 dexes are going to inter-relate

I know they were only shown in the WD yesterday, but what do you guys hunk the best loadout for the Kastelan Robots is? I think that I can see some great potential from these guys, but I think the power fists are the way to go

OK, I'm confused. Not a Mars player, or an imperial player..... What is this new release? I thought the Skitari book was the adeptus mechanicus?

Decay wrote:
I know they were only shown in the WD yesterday, but what do you guys hunk the best loadout for the Kastelan Robots is? I think that I can see some great potential from these guys, but I think the power fists are the way to go

I think these guys will also be decent in shooting.

a min sized unit comes with 2 robots and a datasmith, you can upgrade the robots powerfists with TL phosphor blaster (not sure on the stats on this but assuming S6 Assault 1 or Heavy 1), they can also replace their flamer (incendine Combustor) with a Heavy phosphor blaster S6, 3 shots, luminagen.

So thats 6 Str6 shots for a min sized unit (more depending on the str of the phosphor blaster). Sounds alright but the Kastellan Battle protocols DOUBLE the amount of shots at the expense of movement. So you could move a squad into place, switch protocols and next turn shoot 12 S6 shots at whatever didn't scurry away. Combine that with being a MC and 3+ saves and I think they look good.

Dont get me wrong, the lack of mobility in shooting may be a problem if you stick them in the open. To top it off add the new elimination formation which gives +1 BS and ignores cover and suddenly they become very strong in shooting (http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2015/05/cult-mechanicus-formations-latest.html), not to mention that the luminagen reduces the targets cover save to other units not in the formation so shooting at that wraithknight and you dont quite kill it at least you have luminagen applied so other units can finish it off for you.

I am thinking depending on the rules for the kataphron destroyers that using the elimination formation + a skitarii detachment with troops and onagers (for air support) and possibly some fast units for objective grabbing (I am thinking ironstriders with autocannons, possibly instead of the onagers) might be interesting.

Either way I think a shooting (mid and/or long ranged) Ad mech force will be quite formidable. I would be interested to see some assault based lists for ad mech also as I think they have some very powerful assault units.

Those are my thoughts from what i have seen so far.

Fez

 Khaine's Wrath wrote:
OK, I'm confused. Not a Mars player, or an imperial player..... What is this new release? I thought the Skitari book was the adeptus mechanicus?

In the new WD, we learn that there is Legiones Skitarii, Legio Cybernatica to which the new robots belong, Ordo Reductor, here they mentioned the warriors of Thallaxi, and Auxilia Myrmidon, basically consisting of Tech Priests.
Seems that other new realeases will follow.

I hope that there will be some way to get the FW 30k Mech into the Skitarii force, or Cult Mech. I love those FW models!

 Khaine's Wrath wrote:
OK, I'm confused. Not a Mars player, or an imperial player..... What is this new release? I thought the Skitari book was the adeptus mechanicus?

There is a new dex coming as mentioned above. HQ, electro-priests, battle servitors and the robots of course, 4 units hardly seems to justify a new codex, but that's what they've decided to do. Perhaps each will have multiple build options as in the skitarii dex.

@Fezza--The Heavy Phosphor Blaster was in the Skitarii book. It's S6 AP3 Heavy 3 with the Luminagen special rule(unsaved wounds or glance/penetrating hits on target units cause them to be at a -1 to their cover save when fired at for the remainder of the shooting phase and allows rerolls of failed charges for the remainder of the turn).

With the Kastelan's ability to take 2x Heavy Phosphor Blasters, one of which is a set of twin-linked HPBs and one which can have the number of shots it can put out, it is MUCH scarier at range than it will be against most things in CC.

OK, I'm kind of struggling a little to see the appeal of Rangers given the other particulars of my planned list, am I right to discount them or am I missing something?

Nothing I've seen of Arquebus makes me want them. Precision Shots and AP4 is nice, but seem unnecessary given Vanguard, Kastelan, Kataphron etc can just delete the whole enemy unit rather than fannying about picking out one or two guys. The only utility I can see in Rangers is backfield objective camping, but in the context of my list which uses the Flesh Tearers rent-a-Rhino setup, I already have the unit of Scouts required by that formation to do that, and they're T4 with an enhanced cover save and a Missile Launcher.

Vanguard shred hordes, MEQ, vehicles, and MCs alike, and with Rhinos eliminate their primary weaknesses; vulnerability if you don't get first turn, and lack of ability to rapidly redeploy.

All-Phosphor Kastelans provides all the ranged low-AP anti-infantry firepower a cybernetically enhanced being could want, on a tough unit that can march into the midfield and take punishment, with the potential to still be pretty dangerous in combat thanks to their MC status.

Kataphrons look like being tough, Relentless, and toting heavy plasma and grav weapons, giving you even more ranged firepower, and are potentially Troops in a list that will have an HQ, meaning they can be taken as a CAD and get ObSec, becoming far better objective holders than Rangers.

I can maybe see the utility of them in a pure-Skitarii list, or in smaller size games, but in the context of a dual-book AdMech army with Allies, at any point value game which allows you to afford Kastelans, they look very much to me like a rerun of Phosphor Onagers; decent when considered in isolation, but their role is just done better by other units.

 Yodhrin wrote:
OK, I'm kind of struggling a little to see the appeal of Rangers given the other particulars of my planned list, am I right to discount them or am I missing something?

Nothing I've seen of Arquebus makes me want them. Precision Shots and AP4 is nice, but seem unnecessary given Vanguard, Kastelan, Kataphron etc can just delete the whole enemy unit rather than fannying about picking out one or two guys. The only utility I can see in Rangers is backfield objective camping, but in the context of my list which uses the Flesh Tearers rent-a-Rhino setup, I already have the unit of Scouts required by that formation to do that, and they're T4 with an enhanced cover save and a Missile Launcher.

The standard Galvanic Rifles are AP4.

Transauranic Arquebus is the 60", SX, AP3, Armourbane(resolves at S4), Sniper, Precision Shots Heavy 1 rifle.

When competing with Scouts and the nonsense of "Rent-A-Rhino", yeah Rangers come up short. But with pure Skitarii and the BS buffs that Doctrina Imperatives give?
Rangers can be popping most of the Dedicated Transports in the game easy at 60" and then starting to pick off Sergeants, Special Weapons/Icons/Whatever, and ICs as things move in closer.

Vanguard shred hordes, MEQ, vehicles, and MCs alike, and with Rhinos eliminate their primary weaknesses; vulnerability if you don't get first turn, and lack of ability to rapidly redeploy.

Taken as part of a Skitarii Maniple FOC, Vanguard have Scout(but not Outflank) as does everything else in the army when taken as part of a Skitarii Maniple/War Cohort/Battle Maniple.

While you certainly don't have "rapid redeploy", you're not hurting for the ability to start setting the field up to your advantage from the start of the game onwards.

All-Phosphor Kastelans provides all the ranged low-AP anti-infantry firepower a cybernetically enhanced being could want, on a tough unit that can march into the midfield and take punishment, with the potential to still be pretty dangerous in combat thanks to their MC status.

Which require you to set up everything the turn in advance. If you want to pop the double carapace weapon shots perk, you have to sacrifice your ability to move and your FNP...and you have to keep your Datasmith alive in order to use those perks.

Rangers don't have to worry about that, and while Kastelans are certainly more terrifying than Rangers--they're also HS versus the Troops that Rangers are. It's kind of like comparing a Dreadnought to a Scout Squad at that point.

Kataphrons look like being tough, Relentless, and toting heavy plasma and grav weapons, giving you even more ranged firepower, and are potentially Troops in a list that will have an HQ, meaning they can be taken as a CAD and get ObSec, becoming far better objective holders than Rangers.

If the Heavy Plasma Calivers are anything like the Plasma Calivers, their range will be pretty low for a weapon of that size. There is a reason why I have only run Calivers in units of Vanguard. That 18 inch range makes them a bit weird when compared with the Rangers, who have 30" max range on Galvanic Rifles(15" for Rapid Fire).

Given the points cost we've seen mentioned on Kataphrons(something like 50-60 ppm) I would expect Terminator stats, and that "Canticles of the Omnissiah" special rule to be in effect. Notice how the Kastelans didn't come with FNP as standard? The current rumor is that Canticles add special rules for the army based on the number of units on the field with the Canticles special rule each turn.

I can maybe see the utility of them in a pure-Skitarii list, or in smaller size games, but in the context of a dual-book AdMech army with Allies, at any point value game which allows you to afford Kastelans, they look very much to me like a rerun of Phosphor Onagers; decent when considered in isolation, but their role is just done better by other units.

The simple fact is that you've not seen them run correctly.

And really, what unit looks "good" when Allies come into play? Especially nonsense like the Flesh Tearers formation?

 Kanluwen wrote:
@Fezza--The Heavy Phosphor Blaster was in the Skitarii book. It's S6 AP3 Heavy 3 with the Luminagen special rule(unsaved wounds or glance/penetrating hits on target units cause them to be at a -1 to their cover save when fired at for the remainder of the shooting phase and allows rerolls of failed charges for the remainder of the turn).

With the Kastelan's ability to take 3x Heavy Phosphor Blasters, two of which are twin-linked and one which can have the number of shots it can put out, it is MUCH scarier at range than it will be against most things in CC.

Kastelan's can only take 2x HPBs, one twin-linked. You're confusing the extra shots from their ability to double their non-twin-linked shots using a Battle Protocol.

Either way, shooty Kastelan's are devastating, and will change the upcoming meta dramatically. If rumors of their Ignores Cover formation are true, they basically melt Eldar at will.

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
@Fezza--The Heavy Phosphor Blaster was in the Skitarii book. It's S6 AP3 Heavy 3 with the Luminagen special rule(unsaved wounds or glance/penetrating hits on target units cause them to be at a -1 to their cover save when fired at for the remainder of the shooting phase and allows rerolls of failed charges for the remainder of the turn).

With the Kastelan's ability to take 3x Heavy Phosphor Blasters, two of which are twin-linked and one which can have the number of shots it can put out, it is MUCH scarier at range than it will be against most things in CC.

Kastelan's can only take 2x HPBs, one twin-linked. You're confusing the extra shots from their ability to double their non-twin-linked shots using a Battle Protocol.

Either way, shooty Kastelan's are devastating, and will change the upcoming meta dramatically. If rumors of their Ignores Cover formation are true, they basically melt Eldar at will.

It was a mistype thanks to just waking up.

But yeah, it's one set of twin-linked HPBs.

I totally think that these guys are going to be worth the 300ish points in a battle. Not even Eldar Jetbikes will survive all of those Phosphor shots, especially with the Protector protocol! They could also destroy many transports and vehicles with an AV lower than 12.