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 gmaleron wrote:
Random question what weapon gives the Dune Crawler IWND?

The Cognis Manipulator

 WrentheFaceless wrote:

 gmaleron wrote:
Random question what weapon gives the Dune Crawler IWND?

The Cognis Manipulator

aka punchy grabby fist

Hmm for 25pts. It doesn't seem worth it especially if I'm using them for anti air does it?

 gmaleron wrote:
Hmm for 25pts. It doesn't seem worth it especially if I'm using them for anti air does it?

Gives them a str 10 ap 1 attack in CC, its nice if you get locked cause they're walker

 WrentheFaceless wrote:

 gmaleron wrote:
Hmm for 25pts. It doesn't seem worth it especially if I'm using them for anti air does it?

Gives them a str 10 ap 1 attack in CC, its nice if you get locked cause they're walker

Also means that there's less chance your main gun will get Weapon Destroyed, as it can random onto the fist.

man I know I need to wait for the complete rules before I get stuck in list making land but it is sooooo hard.....

After looking at more of the rules and playing a game with some of the units that formation actually does lots of things really really well outside of having OS lol. The super formation that is

I think it's the little servo arm thingie.

Requizen wrote:

 WrentheFaceless wrote:

 gmaleron wrote:
Hmm for 25pts. It doesn't seem worth it especially if I'm using them for anti air does it?

Gives them a str 10 ap 1 attack in CC, its nice if you get locked cause they're walker

Also means that there's less chance your main gun will get Weapon Destroyed, as it can random onto the fist.

Also IWND. And if you do the super formation its free.

I tried out the super formation with skitarii and BA pods last night vs a UK GT player. He took 12 units of 3 dark reapers with exarches. ( 3 aspect warror formations i beleive.)

we played two games up to turn 3;

Both games were eternal war, 5 objectives. ( mission 5 from UK GT PACK i beleive?)
Game 1 he went first and i null deployed.
3 pods came down in my turn, 2 destoyers with grav and 1 vangaurd with triple plasma with PE.
Took out the 3 units i shot at, in return he took out the three units i deployed.
This was repeated as i deployed more units, leaving him on top as msu is a great counter to such a small yet hard hitting force. Also, 4ups make a very delicate force.

Second game we played the same mission but different deployement. I took first turn and deployed the robots in a ruin, dropped the destyers and vanguard down again but this time in better location avoiding LOS from a fair few more units and getting toes ( tracs) in cover.
Took out 3 units and brought a 4th down to one exarch. He retaliated and took out my vangaurd sqaud( with warlord) and cut both units of destoyers down a few wounds.

This game was much closer but due to some unlucky scatters, the pods moved off from their origional destinations. I.e direclty onto objectives.

What i learnt; aspect warrior formation is great. Thet much ap3 + missiles is very powerful- especially vs such weak armour.
Keep your foot in cover at all times and deploy tactically- try and get out of LOS with vanguard if you can. Use corners.
Be aggresive with the robots and tank wounds with the datasmiths 2+ AS.

The formation is good but vs MSU it is not effective as its a wasted qauntity of shots.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
My list FYI;
+++ SKITARII AVEC MECHANICUS (1500pts) +++

++ Skitarii: Codex (2015) (Skitarii Maniple) ++

+ Troops +

Skitarii Vanguard [2x Arc rifle, 4x Skitarii Vanguard] this was a TAC list, no judging!
Vanguard Alpha [Arc pistol]

Skitarii Vanguard [2x Arc rifle, Omnispex, 4x Skitarii Vanguard]
Vanguard Alpha [Arc pistol]

Skitarii Vanguard [Omnispex, 3x Plasma caliver, 9x Skitarii Vanguard]
Vanguard Alpha [Radium carbine]

+ Fast Attack +

Sydonian Dragoons
Sydonian Dragoon [Taser lance]
Sydonian Dragoon [Taser lance]
Sydonian Dragoon [Taser lance]

++ Blood Angels: Codex (2014) (Flesh Tearers Strike Force) ++

+ HQ +

Sanguinary Priest [Auspex, Melta bombs]

+ Troops +

Scout Squad [Camo Cloaks, Scout Sergeant, 4x Scouts, 5x Sniper Rifle]

+ Fast Attack +

Drop Pod [Storm Bolter]

Drop Pod [Storm Bolter]

Drop Pod [Storm Bolter]

Drop Pod [Storm Bolter]

Drop Pod [Storm Bolter]

++ Cult Mechanicus: Codex (2015) ( Elimination Maniple) ++

+ Troops +

Kataphron Destroyers
Kataphron Destroyer [Phosphor blaster, Grav]
Kataphron Destroyer [Phosphor blaster, Grav]
Kataphron Destroyer [Phosphor blaster, Grav]

Kataphron Destroyers
Kataphron Destroyer [Phosphor blaster, Grav]
Kataphron Destroyer [Phosphor blaster, Grav]
Kataphron Destroyer [Phosphor blaster, Grav]

+ Heavy Support +

Kastelan Robot Maniple [Cybernetica Datasmith]
Kastelan Robot [Heavy phosphor blaster, Twin-linked heavy phosphor blaster]
Kastelan Robot [Heavy phosphor blaster, Twin-linked heavy phosphor blaster]

Created with BattleScribe (http://www.battlescribe.net)

So why did you choose to use plasma on the Kataphrons and not grav?

Which formation did you use? The Elimination Cohort?

 Enigwolf wrote:
Which formation did you use? The Elimination Cohort?

THats what it looks like, unless he went unbound.

 WrentheFaceless wrote:
So why did you choose to use plasma on the Kataphrons and not grav?

i didnt, i used grav. See comment next to plasma. Once i pasted i couldnt be arsed to go back and change it lol . Edit: i have updated the origional post to avoid confusion - soz

I was indeed using the elimination maniple. +1 BS and ignores cover if enemy unit wounded by heavy phospher blasters from the robots.

Does not work well vs msu

Yea wouldnt think it would be, lots of firepower wasted

Probably better against hordes our single tough units

The best formation against MSU is probably the kastellan split fire one.

 WrentheFaceless wrote:
Yea wouldnt think it would be, lots of firepower wasted

Probably better against hordes our single tough units

The best formation against MSU is probably the kastellan split fire one.

Yes, me too. Plus with the IWND relic.. That would make a really strong unit- ally in a psycher for invisibility too

So I'm thinking of just taking the Cohort Cybernetica and allying it with Militarum Tempestus. Only deploy the Formation and do mass Deep Strike with the Scions (max min units of 5 with special weapons).

The Cohort shouldn't die first turn. 19 wounds at T7 with some 2+, most 3+, most 5++, robots FNP on turn 1, Dominus FNP all turns, healing damage... you get the point. It should be tough enough to survive at least until the MSU Deep Strike Scions start slamming down all over the table.

Would be pretty tough unit to crack, majority T7, tanking on guys with 2+, slap on the IWND relic in that unit

I mean, there are cases where it might die first turn. Anyone who has played with/against FMC spam Tyranids knows that: those Flyrants sitting in Ruins with a Malanthrope for a 2+ cover might feel safe, but I've seen people lose 1.5 Flyrants due to alpha strike lists or just pure weight of fire.

That said, you can sit in ruins and losing a Robot or two isn't the end of the world. Plus, with Robots reflecting shots, you might kill a few models while being a magnet of your own.

Requizen wrote:

 buddha wrote:
Just my initial assessment but I think grav kataphron destroyers will be the go to allies for just about every imperial army. 400pts gets you a CAD with a base dominus (useful to devs or guard blobs because of relentless) and two units of 3 grav destroyers basically countering MC and GMC meta builds on the spot.

What does Relentless do for Devestators? He doesn't pass it to the unit.

Not to say an allied Dominus isn't great. He can repair vehicles, and with T5/FNP/2+/5++ and good shooting/assault he basically isn't a bad guy to put in anywhere.

Yes, Slow and purposeful does(or did in 6th) but relentless does not. Otherwise everyone would just put a guy on a bike with their heavy weapon squad rather than just ally in something.

Requizen wrote:
I mean, there are cases where it might die first turn. Anyone who has played with/against FMC spam Tyranids knows that: those Flyrants sitting in Ruins with a Malanthrope for a 2+ cover might feel safe, but I've seen people lose 1.5 Flyrants due to alpha strike lists or just pure weight of fire.

That said, you can sit in ruins and losing a Robot or two isn't the end of the world. Plus, with Robots reflecting shots, you might kill a few models while being a magnet of your own.

Another Skitarii/CM army with lots of Grav or cancer guns.

 Exergy wrote:

Requizen wrote:

 buddha wrote:
Just my initial assessment but I think grav kataphron destroyers will be the go to allies for just about every imperial army. 400pts gets you a CAD with a base dominus (useful to devs or guard blobs because of relentless) and two units of 3 grav destroyers basically countering MC and GMC meta builds on the spot.

What does Relentless do for Devestators? He doesn't pass it to the unit.

Not to say an allied Dominus isn't great. He can repair vehicles, and with T5/FNP/2+/5++ and good shooting/assault he basically isn't a bad guy to put in anywhere.

Yes, Slow and purposeful does(or did in 6th) but relentless does not. Otherwise everyone would just put a guy on a bike with their heavy weapon squad rather than just ally in something.

Ah my bad, got slow and purposeful mixed up with relentless. Still though, the dominus is hardly a tax to get the grav kataphron.

So the things I think might make the electro priests somewhat useful is to help increase the number of units for litanies and when they get into melee to use the Litany of the Electromancer.

These seem to be the cheapest units in the codex so getting 8+ units on the board with any of the other options may be somewhat challenging.

The other thing is if you do manage to get even 3 models into combat with the Litany of the Electromancer and 8+ units you will be dealing 9 Str 4 hits at I10, every round of melee. That is actually a considerable amount of damage as compared to their 90 pts price tag. The models are also small enough that you can hide the units using them as harassment.

I would rank them bad and questionable usefulness but I can see the glimmerings of at least a mediocre use for them. Without the litanies this unit is something like 2x the cost of what it can do.

Enigwolf wrote:

Requizen wrote:
I mean, there are cases where it might die first turn. Anyone who has played with/against FMC spam Tyranids knows that: those Flyrants sitting in Ruins with a Malanthrope for a 2+ cover might feel safe, but I've seen people lose 1.5 Flyrants due to alpha strike lists or just pure weight of fire.

That said, you can sit in ruins and losing a Robot or two isn't the end of the world. Plus, with Robots reflecting shots, you might kill a few models while being a magnet of your own.

Another Skitarii/CM army with lots of Grav or cancer guns.

That rumored Stasis Field upgrade (2++ but can't shoot or assault) upgrade seems interesting, depending on how much it costs. If you know that their only job is to survive turn 1 and that a sudden increase in shooting is about to make that difficult, it could be useful.

ansacs wrote:So the things I think might make the electro priests somewhat useful is to help increase the number of units for litanies and when they get into melee to use the Litany of the Electromancer.

These seem to be the cheapest units in the codex so getting 8+ units on the board with any of the other options may be somewhat challenging.

The other thing is if you do manage to get even 3 models into combat with the Litany of the Electromancer and 8+ units you will be dealing 9 Str 4 hits at I10, every round of melee. That is actually a considerable amount of damage as compared to their 90 pts price tag. The models are also small enough that you can hide the units using them as harassment.

I would rank them bad and questionable usefulness but I can see the glimmerings of at least a mediocre use for them. Without the litanies this unit is something like 2x the cost of what it can do.

It seems kinda counterintuitive still. You want big units to get into assault and not get wiped out, but you want MSU to get the higher ranks. You can charge multiple into one assault, but still. If they were half the price like Daemons, it wouldn't be so annoying.

So I was fiddling around and came up with a Force that fits me for the Admech War Convocation that I want to test out to see if the formation is all that

Skitarii Battle Mantiple - Codex: Skitarii
Vanguard x 10 (3 x plasma, omnispex, Conversion field) -100 Pts
Rangers x 10 (3x arc rifle, ominspex, conversion field) - 120 pts
Dragoons x2 (taser lance) - 90 pts
Infiltrators x 5 ( taser/flechete, conversion field, digital weapons) 185 pts
Rust Stalkers x 5 (Claw, razor grenades, conversion field, digital weapons ) 160 pts
Dunecralwer x1 (Icarrus, extra stubber, cognis) - 90 Pts

Oathsworn Detachment - Codex: Imperial Knights
1 x Knight Errant (Stormspear pod) 370 pts

Battle Congregation - Codex Cult Mechanicus
Dominus x 1 (upgrades n stuff) - 105 Pts

Kataphron Destroyers x 3 (grav, phosphor) - 165 Pts
Kataphron Destroyers x 3 (grav, phosport) -165 pts

Kastelan Robot Mantiple (phosphor, phospor, techsmith upgrades) - 290 pts

Didnt bother with the upgrades as dont have the relics or cult mechanius options in front of me but this totals 1840 points as my local area usually plays 1850

 WrentheFaceless wrote:
So I was fiddling around and came up with a Force that fits me for the Admech War Convocation that I want to test out to see if the formation is all that

Skitarii Battle Mantiple - Codex: Skitarii
Vanguard x 10 (3 x plasma, omnispex, Conversion field) -100 Pts
Rangers x 10 (3x arc rifle, ominspex, conversion field) - 120 pts
Dragoons x2 (taser lance) - 90 pts
Infiltrators x 5 ( taser/flechete, conversion field, digital weapons) 185 pts
Rust Stalkers x 5 (Claw, razor grenades, conversion field, digital weapons ) 160 pts
Dunecralwer x1 (Icarrus, extra stubber, cognis) - 90 Pts

Oathsworn Detachment - Codex: Imperial Knights
1 x Knight Errant (Stormspear pod) 370 pts

Battle Congregation - Codex Cult Mechanicus
Dominus x 1 (upgrades n stuff) - 105 Pts

Kataphron Destroyers x 3 (grav, phosphor) - 165 Pts
Kataphron Destroyers x 3 (grav, phosport) -165 pts

Kastelan Robot Mantiple (phosphor, phospor, techsmith upgrades) - 290 pts

Didnt bother with the upgrades as dont have the relics or cult mechanius options in front of me but this totals 1840 points as my local area usually plays 1850

It will be fun, but it won't be easy to play with.

Too much squish

Possibly, with the low body count and lots of small units.

But itll be fun

 Wilson wrote:

 WrentheFaceless wrote:
So I was fiddling around and came up with a Force that fits me for the Admech War Convocation that I want to test out to see if the formation is all that

Skitarii Battle Mantiple - Codex: Skitarii
Vanguard x 10 (3 x plasma, omnispex, Conversion field) -100 Pts
Rangers x 10 (3x arc rifle, ominspex, conversion field) - 120 pts
Dragoons x2 (taser lance) - 90 pts
Infiltrators x 5 ( taser/flechete, conversion field, digital weapons) 185 pts
Rust Stalkers x 5 (Claw, razor grenades, conversion field, digital weapons ) 160 pts
Dunecralwer x1 (Icarrus, extra stubber, cognis) - 90 Pts

Oathsworn Detachment - Codex: Imperial Knights
1 x Knight Errant (Stormspear pod) 370 pts

Battle Congregation - Codex Cult Mechanicus
Dominus x 1 (upgrades n stuff) - 105 Pts

Kataphron Destroyers x 3 (grav, phosphor) - 165 Pts
Kataphron Destroyers x 3 (grav, phosport) -165 pts

Kastelan Robot Mantiple (phosphor, phospor, techsmith upgrades) - 290 pts

Didnt bother with the upgrades as dont have the relics or cult mechanius options in front of me but this totals 1840 points as my local area usually plays 1850

It will be fun, but it won't be easy to play with.

Too much squish

It will certainly be a lot of fun, and obviously will be crazy good against someone who doesnt know what to shoot at.

I might swap out the arc rifles for aquebuses on the rangers but otherwise I think it looks good.

I was debating the Aquebuses vs the Arc Rifles.

Since its free, why not lol

But yea the plethora of targets to shoot at might be an advantage cause the opposing side may not know what to shoot at.

ansacs wrote:So the things I think might make the electro priests somewhat useful is to help increase the number of units for litanies and when they get into melee to use the Litany of the Electromancer.

These seem to be the cheapest units in the codex so getting 8+ units on the board with any of the other options may be somewhat challenging.

The other thing is if you do manage to get even 3 models into combat with the Litany of the Electromancer and 8+ units you will be dealing 9 Str 4 hits at I10, every round of melee. That is actually a considerable amount of damage as compared to their 90 pts price tag. The models are also small enough that you can hide the units using them as harassment.

I would rank them bad and questionable usefulness but I can see the glimmerings of at least a mediocre use for them. Without the litanies this unit is something like 2x the cost of what it can do.

You can get one use of each Canticle, two if you use the formation. That's not enough for me, IMHO, that's two rounds of damage. And that's assuming they get into combat to even do that. My issue isn't with their close combat ability, now that I've seen the canticles, it's that they have no way of making it there. Even something like a Land Raider isn't worth it just to carry them. At least the Dragoons get a crazy move speed plus scout to get them a turn 2 charge, potentially.

WrentheFaceless wrote:I was debating the Aquebuses vs the Arc Rifles.

Since its free, why not lol

But yea the plethora of targets to shoot at might be an advantage cause the opposing side may not know what to shoot at.

Yes. I was just thinking the same thing, literally he has 1 of everything to shoot at.

Requizen wrote:It seems kinda counterintuitive still. You want big units to get into assault and not get wiped out, but you want MSU to get the higher ranks. You can charge multiple into one assault, but still. If they were half the price like Daemons, it wouldn't be so annoying.

Enigwolf wrote:You can get one use of each Canticle, two if you use the formation. That's not enough for me, IMHO, that's two rounds of damage. And that's assuming they get into combat to even do that. My issue isn't with their close combat ability, now that I've seen the canticles, it's that they have no way of making it there. Even something like a Land Raider isn't worth it just to carry them. At least the Dragoons get a crazy move speed plus scout to get them a turn 2 charge, potentially.

Yeah, they are probably x2 what they should have costed. Why they are more that blood letters or daemonettes I have no idea.

Still I can somewhat see taking a unit or 2 of the Corpuscarii (aka shockers) to bump up your unit count and use as small MSU scoring units to take objectives near LoS blocking terrain. They have the numbers of shots and attacks that they can handle most scoring units.

There could also be something to taking a large unit of Fulgurite (aka axemen) infiltrating or transporting them in a assault flyer (caestus assault ram) and getting some multi charges off. If you can get enough units into the charge and use the Canticle of the Omnissiah to generate a bunch of Str4 hits on the units.

Getting either unit into combat is almost inevitably going to involve hiding and Shroudpsalm as you are likely to have a 2+ cover save on these units for at least a turn and they can charge through cover without problem.

I honestly think even with FnP and the canticles these guys should have been ~10 pts a piece. Perhaps they could have been more expensive if they had an assault transport or a movement bonus but as is, wow they are slow.