Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

They have, and it's actually a very clever thing. Stands to reason that you'd do it more. Expand the conflict between the Dark Angels and the Still-No-Legion-Rules into a proper-sized campaign, with book-box-book like the last two campaign events.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 Talys wrote:
If there were a way to pay $5 / month, and get digital copies of all the rules, all the time, I would digitally line up to subscribe. I would even be ok with not having access to the rules after I cancel.

Heck, I would happily pay $10 / month, or prepay $100 per year.

Given the codices alone cost over $1000 for all of them, I doubt GW would consider being kind enough to supply all rules for only $100 per year.

Whilst I can easily get hold of a morally ambiguous copy of Photoshop/Lightroom etc I subscribe to the Adobe CC package as I know I am getting the latest, most up to date software for a very reasonable £9 per month. I'd happily chuck a few quid at GW for a digital version of rules and codices.

angelofvengeance wrote:HBMC: I thought they'd done that already?

Here:

That lot, and the DV starter set, really make me want to start CS and DA armies...

BOT - I would probably get back into WHFB if it became a skirmish game with maybe 20-40 models only needed.
Maybe like a larger version of Mordhiem (but without the progression).

Agreed.

I'd like a big beast/machine, a champ and a unit or two of troops. Wizards for flavour as long as magic isn't too powerful.

 SilverDevilfish wrote:
Sounds like it's just more stuff being rolled on to an already existing rumor ball. Wouldn't be surprised if most of it's BS.

Lalalalalalala Rumari Damacy.

You sir, are awesome for digging up a Katamari Damacy reference. :-p Like the Emperor, you are a true King of the Cosmos.

 monders wrote:
Agreed.

I'd like a big beast/machine, a champ and a unit or two of troops. Wizards for flavour as long as magic isn't too powerful.

Hmm if only someone made a game like that all ready

Annnnnd the penny drops!

My gods, it seems I might like WM after all :O

@monders -- The DA expansion box is so pricey and low model count :(

The ravenwing command is cool, but does not really fit with the Deathwing knights. I can't imagine anyone with the starter box unit who decides to be more serious with 40k decided that a Nephalim, DWK squad, and ravenwing command to be the next things to add to their army. It would have been better if the DWK were replaced with a couple non-command Ravenwing bikes.

 Talys wrote:
@monders -- The DA expansion box is so pricey and low model count :(

The ravenwing command is cool, but does not really fit with the Deathwing knights. I can't imagine anyone with the starter box unit who decides to be more serious with 40k decided that a Nephalim, DWK squad, and ravenwing command to be the next things to add to their army. It would have been better if the DWK were replaced with a couple non-command Ravenwing bikes.

well yeah if gw were trying to release a coherent add on to there starter set other options would be better, but as a way of clearing dead stock to parents who are buying/have bought dv and want something else it's great.

SeanDrake wrote:

 Talys wrote:
@monders -- The DA expansion box is so pricey and low model count :(

The ravenwing command is cool, but does not really fit with the Deathwing knights. I can't imagine anyone with the starter box unit who decides to be more serious with 40k decided that a Nephalim, DWK squad, and ravenwing command to be the next things to add to their army. It would have been better if the DWK were replaced with a couple non-command Ravenwing bikes.

well yeah if gw were trying to release a coherent add on to there starter set other options would be better, but as a way of clearing dead stock to parents who are buying/have bought dv and want something else it's great.

I guess O.O.

See, if it were just dead-stock clearing, I would have thought limited edition box set (with better value). But this is a permanent expansion. Even if they were dead stock, at some point, it wouldn't be any more, right? Anyhow, I'm not exactly sure how anyone who plays 40k for any length of time stays with Dark Angels. There is very little codex appeal to them, and being the Space Marine faction in the starter box "debuffs" their coolness value. Now, granted, DWK and Ravenwing Command are some of GW's coolest models, but the people buying them just for modelling value wouldn't exactly characterize it as an "expansion".

 Talys wrote:

SeanDrake wrote:

 Talys wrote:
@monders -- The DA expansion box is so pricey and low model count :(

The ravenwing command is cool, but does not really fit with the Deathwing knights. I can't imagine anyone with the starter box unit who decides to be more serious with 40k decided that a Nephalim, DWK squad, and ravenwing command to be the next things to add to their army. It would have been better if the DWK were replaced with a couple non-command Ravenwing bikes.

well yeah if gw were trying to release a coherent add on to there starter set other options would be better, but as a way of clearing dead stock to parents who are buying/have bought dv and want something else it's great.

I guess O.O.

See, if it were just dead-stock clearing, I would have thought limited edition box set (with better value). But this is a permanent expansion. Even if they were dead stock, at some point, it wouldn't be any more, right? Anyhow, I'm not exactly sure how anyone who plays 40k for any length of time stays with Dark Angels. There is very little codex appeal to them, and being the Space Marine faction in the starter box "debuffs" their coolness value. Now, granted, DWK and Ravenwing Command are some of GW's coolest models, but the people buying them just for modelling value wouldn't exactly characterize it as an "expansion".

You're overthinking it. It isn't aimed at people who have knowledge like that about the game. It's aimed at people who have just bought DV and want a quick easy way to expand it. They don't know what's gonna be any good.

If whfb drops to a skrimish game "which it won't" they would lose my buisness which is about 1grand a month on ogres lol

OgreChubbs wrote:
If whfb drops to a skrimish game "which it won't" they would lose my buisness which is about 1grand a month on ogres lol

The rumor is that there will be a skirmish mode as an option to get into the game without having a kazillion models. There will still be the full game... so it's rumored on BoLS.

 Talys wrote:

OgreChubbs wrote:
If whfb drops to a skrimish game "which it won't" they would lose my buisness which is about 1grand a month on ogres lol

The rumor is that there will be a skirmish mode as an option to get into the game without having a kazillion models. There will still be the full game... so it's rumored on BoLS.

I have heard those rumours as well. I think it's a terribad idea to release the skirmish BEFORE 9th proper. You're going to panic some players who may sell their models & won't bother with 9th as they do not want to rebuy an entire army. Again my biggest issue is GWs secrecy. It's been pushing me to buying & playing more WM/H and it's got our core group of fantasy guys on a purchasing freeze and also exploring other games (KoW, Bolt action, WM/H, Malifaux)

 Shas'O Dorian wrote:

 Talys wrote:

OgreChubbs wrote:
If whfb drops to a skrimish game "which it won't" they would lose my buisness which is about 1grand a month on ogres lol

The rumor is that there will be a skirmish mode as an option to get into the game without having a kazillion models. There will still be the full game... so it's rumored on BoLS.

I have heard those rumours as well. I think it's a terribad idea to release the skirmish BEFORE 9th proper. You're going to panic some players who may sell their models & won't bother with 9th as they do not want to rebuy an entire army. Again my biggest issue is GWs secrecy. It's been pushing me to buying & playing more WM/H and it's got our core group of fantasy guys on a purchasing freeze and also exploring other games (KoW, Bolt action, WM/H, Malifaux)

Thats the thing, people will continue with their own miniature projects regardless of what GW does with WFB. We have options and thats something GW needs to understand if they still want to have a game that sells well. The secrecy goes against all of that philosophy, it kind of assumes that people will still be interested in your product no matter what.
Before someone brings the argument that the secrecy is due to the fact that they have to protect the IP thing, IIRC this started before the disputes and it was more of a knee jerk reaction to bad feedback on the internet to the revealed rumours. I think the mind set was at the time that the bad reviews/opinions on say a new box set would kill the momentum and cost them sales. They believe WFB is a spree of the moment impulse buy.

Im a bit immune to all that BS I'm in no rush but its really silly a company of this dimension thinking that it has the flexibility to take sales drops due to lack of publicity.

As for the 2 in one games, bring it on, lets see if they scale up well or not. Theres so many skirmishes on the market that GW needs to bring in something really special here.

 NAVARRO wrote:

Im a bit immune to all that BS I'm in no rush but its really silly a company of this dimension thinking that it has the flexibility to take sales drops due to lack of publicity.

Well of course, that would be very silly, the thing is their sales don't drop because of a lack of publicity - they have said on numerous occasions that when they experimented with shortening the window between announcement and release, sales went UP each time, so of course they've kept the one-week model because it yields the most sales. If you're going to turn a thread into a moan about GW's marketing at least keep to the facts.

 NAVARRO wrote:

 Shas'O Dorian wrote:

 Talys wrote:

OgreChubbs wrote:
If whfb drops to a skrimish game "which it won't" they would lose my buisness which is about 1grand a month on ogres lol

The rumor is that there will be a skirmish mode as an option to get into the game without having a kazillion models. There will still be the full game... so it's rumored on BoLS.

I have heard those rumours as well. I think it's a terribad idea to release the skirmish BEFORE 9th proper. You're going to panic some players who may sell their models & won't bother with 9th as they do not want to rebuy an entire army. Again my biggest issue is GWs secrecy. It's been pushing me to buying & playing more WM/H and it's got our core group of fantasy guys on a purchasing freeze and also exploring other games (KoW, Bolt action, WM/H, Malifaux)

Thats the thing, people will continue with their own miniature projects regardless of what GW does with WFB. We have options and thats something GW needs to understand if they still want to have a game that sells well. The secrecy goes against all of that philosophy, it kind of assumes that people will still be interested in your product no matter what.
Before someone brings the argument that the secrecy is due to the fact that they have to protect the IP thing, IIRC this started before the disputes and it was more of a knee jerk reaction to bad feedback on the internet to the revealed rumours. I think the mind set was at the time that the bad reviews/opinions on say a new box set would kill the momentum and cost them sales. They believe WFB is a spree of the moment impulse buy.

Im a bit immune to all that BS I'm in no rush but its really silly a company of this dimension thinking that it has the flexibility to take sales drops due to lack of publicity.

As for the 2 in one games, bring it on, lets see if they scale up well or not. Theres so many skirmishes on the market that GW needs to bring in something really special here.

I thought the secrecy of releases started back when they got the LotR license and had to keep the miniatures unseen because the minis couldn't be shown before the movie they were in was released. Since LotR was half of WD at the time GW decided it was easier to hide everything then just selectively hide LotR and Hobbit product.

 Bull0 wrote:

 NAVARRO wrote:

Im a bit immune to all that BS I'm in no rush but its really silly a company of this dimension thinking that it has the flexibility to take sales drops due to lack of publicity.

Well of course, that would be very silly, the thing is their sales don't drop because of a lack of publicity - they have said on numerous occasions that when they experimented with shortening the window between announcement and release, sales went UP each time, so of course they've kept the one-week model because it yields the most sales. If you're going to turn a thread into a moan about GW's marketing at least keep to the facts.

They have? Who said that and when?

Because since their sales numbers have been declining for the past years, it would be a pretty stupid thing to say.

 Bull0 wrote:

 NAVARRO wrote:

Im a bit immune to all that BS I'm in no rush but its really silly a company of this dimension thinking that it has the flexibility to take sales drops due to lack of publicity.

Well of course, that would be very silly, the thing is their sales don't drop because of a lack of publicity - they have said on numerous occasions that when they experimented with shortening the window between announcement and release, sales went UP each time, so of course they've kept the one-week model because it yields the most sales. If you're going to turn a thread into a moan about GW's marketing at least keep to the facts.

And yes you should believe in what they say without resorting to any kind of thinking after all they have no interest in sugar coating their reports and will openly admit their policies are redundant to their board and clients. Yeah those facts I have a problem taking in without any form of refutation. On the other hand my statement was claiming to be nothing more than my IIRC... You seem to have facts though, so glad that WFB is such a best seller and that their annual reports seems to be brilliant in sales growth... their plan is working just fine.
In all seriousness Publicity is just one of the many shortfalls in GW current policies and not the only solution for the current WFB predicament.

As for moan... well it was not my intention, actually just replying to a forum mate about his decision to continue with his other hobbies projects because GW secrecy is killing it for him, but dont let this get in front of your... whatever that was.

Back on topic WFB seems to be going for a major facelift but a bit to late for salute shopping spree, almost everyone I know just stopped buying stuff until there is some clarity.

PhantomViper wrote:

 Bull0 wrote:

 NAVARRO wrote:

Im a bit immune to all that BS I'm in no rush but its really silly a company of this dimension thinking that it has the flexibility to take sales drops due to lack of publicity.

Well of course, that would be very silly, the thing is their sales don't drop because of a lack of publicity - they have said on numerous occasions that when they experimented with shortening the window between announcement and release, sales went UP each time, so of course they've kept the one-week model because it yields the most sales. If you're going to turn a thread into a moan about GW's marketing at least keep to the facts.

They have? Who said that and when?

Because since their sales numbers have been declining for the past years, it would be a pretty stupid thing to say.

I can't remember where I read it but someone said one of the game designers said it at an open day or GD or something. As for the overall decline, who's to say it wouldn't be worse if they didn't go by the one-week model? So I don't think it's so easily dismissed as pretty stupid.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 NAVARRO wrote:

And yes you should believe in what they say without resorting to any kind of thinking after all they have no interest in sugar coating their reports and will openly admit their policies are redundant to their board and clients. Yeah those facts I have a problem taking in without any form of refutation. On the other hand my statement was claiming to be nothing more than my IIRC... You seem to have facts though, so glad that WFB is such a best seller and that their annual reports seems to be brilliant in sales growth... their plan is working just fine.
In all seriousness Publicity is just one of the many shortfalls in GW current policies and not the only solution for the current WFB predicament.

As for moan... well it was not my intention, actually just replying to a forum mate about his decision to continue with his other hobbies projects because GW secrecy is killing it for him, but dont let this get in front of your... whatever that was.

That's hardly fair, I'm not saying you should take everything GW says at face value, I'm saying that your speculation that it must harm sales is just that whereas in the past they've come out and said it only improves sales to keep the lid on upcoming releases. Besides, surely I'm demonstrating a deeper level of critical thinking if I've come to the conclusion that they're doing it because it earns them money than you are when you come to the conclusion that they're doing it because they're the stupids? So be careful where you're slinging the accusations of thoughtlessness etc around, that's a dangerous game.

The second bit of your post amounts to the same argument PhantomViper made that if keeping the lid on preorders was a positive thing GW's sales would be growing, and the fact that I can't see that makes me some sort of idiot. The same counter-argument, then; for all you know, their decline would have been even more rapid if they hadn't adopted the one-week preorder model. Anyway, this is off topic, that was my starting point with this.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 NAVARRO wrote:
but dont let this get in front of your... whatever that was.

U R SO FUNNEE MAN <3


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Prestor Jon wrote:
I thought the secrecy of releases started back when they got the LotR license and had to keep the miniatures unseen because the minis couldn't be shown before the movie they were in was released. Since LotR was half of WD at the time GW decided it was easier to hide everything then just selectively hide LotR and Hobbit product.

I've heard it was to do with the movie license too. But you know, it's so inconvenient, how can GW be so stupid, whinge whinge whinge moan moan moan

So your hard fact is based on something you don't remember

The rest of your post is what I suspected. I don't feed that sorry.

 NAVARRO wrote:
So your hard fact is based on something you don't remember

I remember it distinctly, just can't find it. I even think it might've been here on dakka that I read it. I didn't call it a "hard fact", I said "they've said X", which I believe to be true. Can you stop putting fething words in my mouth please, you massive troll?

The rest of your post is what I suspected. I don't feed that sorry.

That sentence makes exactly no sense.

 Bull0 wrote:


I can't remember where I read it but someone said one of the game designers said it at an open day or GD or something. As for the overall decline, who's to say it wouldn't be worse if they didn't go by the one-week model? So I don't think it's so easily dismissed as pretty stupid.

Why would a game designer have such an intimate knowledge of the company's marketing tactics and sales figures as to say that EVERY time that they went with no advertisement on a product the sales of that product had gone up?

And who would say that it wouldn't be worse if they advertised? Common sense, that is who. Or are you actually saying that the billions of dollars / euros / pounds spent in advertisement by every company on the planet are just money burned away?!

So yes, it is easily dismissed as a pretty stupid thing to say but its very much in line with all the other stupid things that GW does.

Bear in mind that they don't seem to have an actual marketing or PR department. It's entirely possible the designer was involved in the marketing work, or office friends of someone else who did the work (but is pretty much guaranteed not to have any marketing experience).

It makes total sense that in their relative knowledge vacuum on what customers buy when and why, GW would stick to behaviours that seem to up sales temporarily. And the "one week ahead/limited edition release super-mysterious and only for a short time available" thing is (a poor attempt at) marketing.

But Navarro and PhantomViper are right to say that we have no proof of a raise of sales - since they do not publish weekly or monthly sales figures that could show that.
A designer's opinion on things he probably has no insight into, especially as anecdotal as you make it, proves really nothing except that that designer likes to believe it is so.

To be clear: I actually do think that it does up sales. But only compared to not doing any kind of marketing.

However: Most likely it makes a lot less sales than a full-blown marketing machine would generate instead of this half-assed attempt at it, and I think that is what the two trolls are aiming at. It would be pretty daft to believe that a lack of publicity has no direct negative impact on sales. Apple got most of their money from marketing (...totally overpriced products to a big number of half-mindless consumers that believe a certain mobile phone will make them more attractive and part of a hip crowd).

And if marketing does raise sales figures, not making marketing means making less sales (since money spent by consumers is not an infinite number, and they will carry it elsewhere).

Salute would be a good opportunity to show a bit of your product. FW is always packed there.

Yet its another missed chance by GW. I mean, each single year Salute shows considerable growth and would be the perfect platform to have some GW stands showing their new stuff and generating some buzz.
They opt not to be involved with the hobby and thats fair enough, its their gear. But to assume that their sales are going to increase from that its a bit nonsense.

This industry is a bit hard to track because most are small companies... Salute is only getting bigger and bigger, many companies are growing the Kickstarters are making small fortunes etc... So there is money coming into the industry, why is GW not growing? Sure its not just because the lack of marketing, many other factors play a role on grabbing Hobbyist money.

If the rumours are anything to go by the big reveal will be on the 24th, how many of you Salute attendees (25th April) would not get into it if they sold some preorders at salute and had some demo tables with the new WFB skirmish rules? They would sell like hotcakes. But nope! Just keep it quiet and make it all limited ed and direct only.

WFB needs to be a hit but I do not see GW walking the extra mile for it.

Man I dont know how people are not just jazzing out about this!! Ive wanted to play a skirmish game for a long while using Warhammer models. GW's model although a little pricy are so nice to work with and kit bash, my mind is exploding at the possibilities. I think it will be nice to have more center piece models as well. Painting 50 of the same core model is dreadful..

 Bull0 wrote:

 NAVARRO wrote:
So your hard fact is based on something you don't remember

I remember it distinctly, just can't find it. I even think it might've been here on dakka that I read it. I didn't call it a "hard fact", I said "they've said X", which I believe to be true. Can you stop putting fething words in my mouth please, you massive troll?

That sentence makes exactly no sense.

No, but you did say stick to the facts. If you're talking about something that may have been said by someone who may have talked to a game designer who may have said X... then why would you say stick to the facts when talking about something that can't be proven as a fact?

Chopxsticks wrote:
Man I dont know how people are not just jazzing out about this!! Ive wanted to play a skirmish game for a long while using Warhammer models. GW's model although a little pricy are so nice to work with and kit bash, my mind is exploding at the possibilities. I think it will be nice to have more center piece models as well. Painting 50 of the same core model is dreadful..

I think those people all already played the skirmish rules for fantasy back when they where supported and remember how that turned out in the end.

 jonolikespie wrote:

Chopxsticks wrote:
Man I dont know how people are not just jazzing out about this!! Ive wanted to play a skirmish game for a long while using Warhammer models. GW's model although a little pricy are so nice to work with and kit bash, my mind is exploding at the possibilities. I think it will be nice to have more center piece models as well. Painting 50 of the same core model is dreadful..

I think those people all already played the skirmish rules for fantasy back when they where supported and remember how that turned out in the end.

Awesome, until they stopped printing the book and my copy basically fell to pieces from use?