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 JohnHwangDD wrote:
GW has bumped rules complexity back to WFB 5 / 40k 2 levels, so WFB 9 is due for a reset and simplification.

Simplified stuff is a lot easier to balance than chromey rules.

But without seeing 9E, it's really hard to guess what GW might have done.

Just keep on hoping.

I'm waiting before I decide to toss my 5000+ pts of OK in the trash or my like size VC army. I won't sell them or trade them or ship them to anyone, they will go in the trash if the doom and gloom crowd is correct and I can't play my armies as solo-armies anymore. If fantasy becomes 40K, ally-palooza, I'll walk away and never look back.

So, hope for the best, open a trash-bag for the worst.

Rage-trashing 10k worth of WFB stuff seems a bit extreme, when you could just keep on playing some version of Oldhammer.

Or at least tell us where you are located so we can loot your trashcan.

Haha pretre

Ya seriously, why say stuff like that when we all know your not going to do it... what does that add to the conversation.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
Rage-trashing 10k worth of WFB stuff seems a bit extreme, when you could just keep on playing some version of Oldhammer.

Yeah... just saying, if you were deadly serious about doing that... donate them to some public school hobby club, or children's hospital instead. You can opt out of the money-making, while still doing something healthy for the hobby on the whole.

Its what I will probably end up doing with my hundreds of Dust models actually. :-p

Chopxsticks wrote:
Ya seriously, why say stuff like that when we all know your not going to do it... what does that add to the conversation.

Because I've done it before? If I'm done with it and there's no one nearby that wants it, it'll go in the trash. I've mailed a bunch of Mantic crap to a person on dakka before but that was after I'd trashed a good $200 worth of it. I generally don't have the time or inclination to run to the post office and deal with paypal transactions for shipping costs etc but I do have a nice salary so tossing a few hundred bucks worth of stuff out in the garbage isn't going to make me shed a tear.

Besides, all my stuff is painted and trust me, nobody wants my poorly painted models.

 agnosto wrote:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
GW has bumped rules complexity back to WFB 5 / 40k 2 levels, so WFB 9 is due for a reset and simplification.

Simplified stuff is a lot easier to balance than chromey rules.

But without seeing 9E, it's really hard to guess what GW might have done.

Just keep on hoping.

I'm waiting before I decide to toss my 5000+ pts of OK in the trash or my like size VC army. I won't sell them or trade them or ship them to anyone, they will go in the trash if the doom and gloom crowd is correct and I can't play my armies as solo-armies anymore. If fantasy becomes 40K, ally-palooza, I'll walk away and never look back.

So, hope for the best, open a trash-bag for the worst.

I'm sorry but this is the stupidest thing I have heard in a long time, you possibly don't want to play the new rules, fine don't. You might not want your miniatures anymore, again no problem. You want to bin them throwing away probably a couple of thousand dollars in a futile gesture, stupid.

Do you think GW will change their ways because you bin you miniatures? If you are adamant you don't want them then at least do something productive, sell them and give the money to charity, donate the miniatures to a local youth club or school, send them to a women's refuge where the kids are taken out of their homes with only the clothes on their back as their mothers escape a violent relationship.

I understand you want to take a moral stand, but at least make it worthwhile one.

 Denilsta wrote:


I'm sorry but this is the stupidest thing I have heard in a long time, you possibly don't want to play the new rules, fine don't. You might not want your miniatures anymore, again no problem. You want to bin them throwing away probably a couple of thousand dollars in a futile gesture, stupid.

Do you think GW will change their ways because you bin you miniatures? If you are adamant you don't want them then at least do something productive, sell them and give the money to charity, donate the miniatures to a local youth club or school, send them to a women's refuge where the kids are taken out of their homes with only the clothes on their back as their mothers escape a violent relationship.

I understand you want to take a moral stand, but at least make it worthwhile one.

I really don't care if GW changes or not. Actually most of the models were purchased with dividend payments from ownership of GW stock anyway. I live in a state where very few people wargame, there are no "school clubs" and the local charities generally don't accept fragile, poorly-painted toys. I donate money to United Way and already am myself a community resource for needy families on a daily basis as part of my job, they do not need my warhammer miniatures and I doubt that any of them would know what to do with them if I gave them the lot. Heck, the first GW store ever in this state just arrived about 3 years ago and of course it's about an hour away from my home. There are 3 FLGs within a 30 minute drive (4 if you expand this out to an hour and include GW) and only one of them is a GW friendly store, one is focused on Magic and the other, the largest seems to support a large number of games with very little GW sprinkled in there. I am a rarity in my area in that I even know what warhammer is. There is a local club but people there just play XWing now and I haven't heard of or seen a WHFB or 40k game played there in over a year (in fact the last time I saw a 40k played, I was playing it). I'd offer the stuff up there but it would wind up on ebay more than likely and I'm not going to give it away just so someone can make money off of it.

For me it's not a moral stand, I think you misunderstand, if I decide to toss my toys in the trash it will be because I don't anticipate ever deriving enjoyment from them again and don't want them taking up space in my nerd closet when they could be replaced with something that will provide me with enjoyment. I've been considering it anyway because I haven't played a game of WHFB since just before end times started. I might keep the VC stuff because the zombies and skellies come in handy for board games and such.

Anyway, I've derailed this thread enough, sorry folks.

I think that they're his models, he can do what he wants with them.

I just think it's a little wasteful to simply trash them, when there are undoubtedly others who would want them and gladly pay to have them shipped.

Please-please GW, do not mix Skaven with Chaos. UGH. The thought of that just makes he throw-up a bit in my mouth.

Skaven are the FARTHEST thing from 'Chaotic'. Skaven always have a plan-plan!!!

If anything, Skaven scream 'Ravening hordes' as much as anyone.

I could definitely see them going to a 'system' like 40K, where you have Battleforged... and then Unbound... where Unbound lets you use 'whatever models you want'. Go ally crazy. etc.

But I hope the game doesn't come down to five armies, with an army list composed of a mix of humans, elves, dwarves. Sure - great variety - but no real character, in my opinion.

Oh well, we'll find out in a little over a month!

Um....Skaven is totally chaos. You are quite literally the ONLY person I've seen argue against that.

 Mort wrote:
Please-please GW, do not mix Skaven with Chaos. UGH. The thought of that just makes he throw-up a bit in my mouth.

Skaven are the FARTHEST thing from 'Chaotic'. Skaven always have a plan-plan!!!

If anything, Skaven scream 'Ravening hordes' as much as anyone.

I could definitely see them going to a 'system' like 40K, where you have Battleforged... and then Unbound... where Unbound lets you use 'whatever models you want'. Go ally crazy. etc.

But I hope the game doesn't come down to five armies, with an army list composed of a mix of humans, elves, dwarves. Sure - great variety - but no real character, in my opinion.

Oh well, we'll find out in a little over a month!

If anything, Archaon proved that they are all with the Chaos.

Thanquol was the story of vermin lords scheming to get the horned rat acknowledged as the fifth chaos god.

Yeah, it really didn't feature Thanquol at all. Should've been named "Verminlords".

 Mort wrote:
Please-please GW, do not mix Skaven with Chaos. UGH. The thought of that just makes he throw-up a bit in my mouth.

Skaven are the FARTHEST thing from 'Chaotic'.

Hope you like that taste...

No, they are the farthest thing WITHIN Chaos. Skaven are merely the followers of the 6th Chaos God (after Malal). It's not for nothing that they have a Sacred Number just like every other Chaos God.

 timetowaste85 wrote:
Um....Skaven is totally chaos. You are quite literally the ONLY person I've seen argue against that.

That's cool.

I've just never viewed them as being part of Chaos. The fluff I've read always seems to set them apart with their own society, plans, agendas, and schemes. Are there stories somewhere I might have missed where Skaven worship or even interact with the big four? Is the Great Horned Rat actually a Chaos God? Do any of the Skaven worship the big four - or Malal? (didn't know about him/her/it, either).

Do Khorne/Tzeentch/Nurgle/Slaanesh have their own books, in either game? Or are they still all lumped together? Are there chaos cultists amongst Skaven clans?

These aren't rhetorical questions - It's quite possible I haven't read -all- the available fluff. I don't claim to be an expert. /shrug

Dude, it's like you don't understand Chaos. Skaven worship their Chaos God, not the other 5 Chaos Gods. And the others don't cross worship, either. A follower of Malal won't worship Khorne.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Hah, Alessio Cavatore and "Balance". That's a good one!

What's so bad about Alessio and Balance? It seems he's responsible for what are generally regarded as GW's better games (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alessio_Cavatore)

OK so Mordheim was apparently pretty badly balanced, but Warmaster, LOTR, Bolt Action?

Herzlos wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Hah, Alessio Cavatore and "Balance". That's a good one!

What's so bad about Alessio and Balance? It seems he's responsible for what are generally regarded as GW's better games (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alessio_Cavatore)

OK so Mordheim was apparently pretty badly balanced, but Warmaster, LOTR, Bolt Action?

Notice the other person involved in all of those systems... Rick Priestly.

 agnosto wrote:
I generally don't have the time or inclination to run to the post office

Do you have the time or inclination to just put them in a box? Let me know the size and weight of the box, and I'll get someone to come round and pick it up - I'll make sure they go to a good home...

 endtransmission wrote:

Herzlos wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Hah, Alessio Cavatore and "Balance". That's a good one!

What's so bad about Alessio and Balance? It seems he's responsible for what are generally regarded as GW's better games (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alessio_Cavatore)

OK so Mordheim was apparently pretty badly balanced, but Warmaster, LOTR, Bolt Action?

Notice the other person involved in all of those systems... Rick Priestly.

I did, but are you implying that it's all Priestly and not Cavatore?

In any case, neither of them work for GW now so there's a serious risk that a WHF reboot won't be of the same calibre.

 agnosto wrote:

Chopxsticks wrote:
Ya seriously, why say stuff like that when we all know your not going to do it... what does that add to the conversation.

Because I've done it before? If I'm done with it and there's no one nearby that wants it, it'll go in the trash. I've mailed a bunch of Mantic crap to a person on dakka before but that was after I'd trashed a good $200 worth of it. I generally don't have the time or inclination to run to the post office and deal with paypal transactions for shipping costs etc but I do have a nice salary so tossing a few hundred bucks worth of stuff out in the garbage isn't going to make me shed a tear.

Besides, all my stuff is painted and trust me, nobody wants my poorly painted models.

Talk about pissing money down the drain. Like others have said, go to a FLGS/gaming club and donate it.

Herzlos wrote:

In any case, neither of them work for GW now so there's a serious risk that a WHF reboot won't be of the same calibre.

The current crop of GW rules "writers" couldn't write the rules for rock-paper-scissors, so the hope that anything remotely decent comes out of this is very, very thin.

PhantomViper wrote:

Herzlos wrote:

In any case, neither of them work for GW now so there's a serious risk that a WHF reboot won't be of the same calibre.

The current crop of GW rules "writers" couldn't write the rules for rock-paper-scissors, so the hope that anything remotely decent comes out of this is very, very thin.

The rules are pretty good in most cases, they're just overly complex and in need of tighter editing. Still a lot of fun though.

Mymearan wrote:

PhantomViper wrote:

Herzlos wrote:

In any case, neither of them work for GW now so there's a serious risk that a WHF reboot won't be of the same calibre.

The current crop of GW rules "writers" couldn't write the rules for rock-paper-scissors, so the hope that anything remotely decent comes out of this is very, very thin.

The rules are pretty good in most cases, they're just overly complex and in need of tighter editing. Still a lot of fun though.

No, the rules are a bunch of convoluted, overcomplicated, badly written, unbalanced and extremely randomized pile of garbage.

Only someone that never actually played a miniature game outside of GW could even remotely call GW rules "good".

PhantomViper wrote:

Mymearan wrote:

PhantomViper wrote:

Herzlos wrote:

In any case, neither of them work for GW now so there's a serious risk that a WHF reboot won't be of the same calibre.

The current crop of GW rules "writers" couldn't write the rules for rock-paper-scissors, so the hope that anything remotely decent comes out of this is very, very thin.

The rules are pretty good in most cases, they're just overly complex and in need of tighter editing. Still a lot of fun though.

No, the rules are a bunch of convoluted, overcomplicated, badly written, unbalanced and extremely randomized pile of garbage.

Only someone that never actually played a miniature game outside of GW could even remotely call GW rules "good".

Hyperbole and veiled personal attacks for no reason, that's great. This is why discussing GW is always so constructive.

If this is going to be a reboot to try and revitatilise interest in WFB, then I don't think the "factions" will simply be merging of current armies as we understand them. It would be a complete restart.

This is the middle ground I'm on between the "it's all changing" and "you can use current model" rumours.

Perhaps current models would still be usable as placeholders.

Either way, I do expect this to be a complete reboot.

I'm tentatively excited. Bit annoyed I have about 6 hardback army books I've never used, but that's as much my fault as anything.

Mymearan wrote:


Hyperbole and veiled personal attacks for no reason, that's great. This is why discussing GW is always so constructive.

I wasn't using any hyperbole and nothing that I said could even remotely be considered a personal attack.