Age of Sigmar - Slaanesh Replaced? plus big book, stormcast archers, dismounted celestan

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**namiel**

silent25 wrote:
Via Eclipse Phase over at Warseer:

I was at a bbq with some gaming gents today when WFB came up, one of them being a redshirt. Take this with the usual redshirt info, sometimes spoonfed by GW. Units will indeed be on circular bases with most infantry units gaining base-to-base contact bonuses depending on their equipment layout and command qualities.
Armored/shield units gain a shield wall bonus, ranged and spear units gain rerolls to-hit with additional ranks in base-to-base, basic infantry gain morale. These are initiated at the end of their movement phase if the unit is fully in base contact.

Separated models fall into a 40k-esque open formation, gaining bonuses if their type has a preference for that formation, with all gaining movement and deployment bonuses depending on the further their cohesion but also lowering morale and objective contests of some sort.

I'll try to squeeze out a little more info tomorrow at breakfast.

From a Red Shirt, but at this point they might be starting to train them to demo the new game.

the shops dont have it yet. here in the us they get it 1-1.5 weeks early to build/paint/learn the game. So expect your local shop to have one by next week.

**mikhaila**

Was given some info 3rd hand:

- There will be some free downloads to give unit stats for older models. These won't be in the book itself. The stats online are a onetime thing, meaning they won't be maintaining it or adding info for it going forward. But people with existing armies will have stats for all their models. Extrapolating from this, I expect that the focus of rules and stats of the aos book and any future books will be on models they currently sell. As a store, i'll probably just make a bunch of copies of this and hand it out to players as needed, so everyone has them.

-Setup may be alternating units, with the player who has the least units having some control over what objectives you'll be playing the game around.

-Statlines will be more along the line of the die roll needed.

-Very large monsters may have their stats get worse as they lose wounds.

**namiel**

mikhaila wrote:
Was given some info 3rd hand:

- There will be some free downloads to give unit stats for older models. These won't be in the book itself. The stats online are a onetime thing, meaning they won't be maintaining it or adding info for it going forward. But people with existing armies will have stats for all their models. Extrapolating from this, I expect that the focus of rules and stats of the aos book and any future books will be on models they currently sell. As a store, i'll probably just make a bunch of copies of this and hand it out to players as needed, so everyone has them.

-Setup may be alternating units, with the player who has the least units having some control over what objectives you'll be playing the game around.

-Statlines will be more along the line of the die roll needed.

-Very large monsters may have their stats get worse as they lose wounds.

I heard the same about the rules being online for free. On the release rules for stuff not new will have free rules online and they will be in card format. Unit cards for everything not in the new book on the launch. I am positive that as books come out there will be changes to each unit so that the free rules are no longer curent.

I also heard that with less books but 15 armies still available that army composition will be determined by which god your army follows. I like this idea. The gods of the old world will aparently play a part of the game now.

**Aerethan**

mikhaila wrote:
Was given some info 3rd hand:

- There will be some free downloads to give unit stats for older models. These won't be in the book itself. The stats online are a onetime thing, meaning they won't be maintaining it or adding info for it going forward. But people with existing armies will have stats for all their models. Extrapolating from this, I expect that the focus of rules and stats of the aos book and any future books will be on models they currently sell. As a store, i'll probably just make a bunch of copies of this and hand it out to players as needed, so everyone has them.

-Setup may be alternating units, with the player who has the least units having some control over what objectives you'll be playing the game around.

-Statlines will be more along the line of the die roll needed.

-Very large monsters may have their stats get worse as they lose wounds.

Because we needed more reasons not to run dragons? It makes sense fluff wise for that, but until cannons can't one shot your 300+ point beast they'll remain relegated to lists where people insist on running them, not so much for any kind of competitive play.

I like the idea of moving stats more towards die rolls, so that we don't have to constantly look up tables and modifiers all day. It's one thing I love about X-Wing: there are very few rules so complicated you'd need to look them up mid game. I don't know how much time I've lost mid game in WFB to having to look up some random special rule or constantly have to review modifiers and map out hit/wound tables. For long time veterans much of it can be memorized, but for new players it's a lot of info to take in and really slows down the pace of the game.

**warboss**

I hope they extend that "stats get worse" thing to 40k. It's a bit ridiculous that you can strip normal vehicles bare but a wraithknight/riptide/superheavy is 100% black knight "it's just a flesh wound" good until he flops over dead from the very last shot.

**NewTruthNeomaxim**

mikhaila wrote:
Was given some info 3rd hand:

- There will be some free downloads to give unit stats for older models. These won't be in the book itself. The stats online are a onetime thing, meaning they won't be maintaining it or adding info for it going forward. But people with existing armies will have stats for all their models. Extrapolating from this, I expect that the focus of rules and stats of the aos book and any future books will be on models they currently sell. As a store, i'll probably just make a bunch of copies of this and hand it out to players as needed, so everyone has them.

-Setup may be alternating units, with the player who has the least units having some control over what objectives you'll be playing the game around.

-Statlines will be more along the line of the die roll needed.

-Very large monsters may have their stats get worse as they lose wounds.

I'm not looking to be a part of the rumor-mill, but the sole thing I have heard from a friend in Nottingham, in the industry, but not from GW, was something akin to heavy one-off units having their effectiveness diminish as they take wounds... so I actually can say I have heard that last item.

**Kanluwen**

I wouldn't be surprised if "very large monsters may have their stats get worse as they lose wounds" is tied in to monsters getting a lot more survivable.

There is precedent for that with some things that get better as they lose Wounds.

**drunkorc**

By the Gods,.. after all kinds of cool base's i made,.. I am going to sooo not be happy breaking over 1000 Base's

, If thats true, im Sticking with the 8th. ed

... i just cant Break apart what took me years to do,... some are even over 25 y.o.

I started back in 1980's,...

**adamsouza**

drunkorc wrote:
By the Gods,.. after all kinds of cool base's i made,.. I am going to sooo not be happy breaking over 1000 Base's , If thats true, im Sticking with the 8th. ed ... i just cant Break apart what took me years to do,... some are even over 25 y.o. I started back in 1980's,...

There is no need to rebase your modes.

**Aerethan**

Kanluwen wrote:
I wouldn't be surprised if "very large monsters may have their stats get worse as they lose wounds" is tied in to monsters getting a lot more survivable.

There is precedent for that with some things that get better as they lose Wounds.

That is my main concern. Give me a reason to field that dragon in the first place, and I won't mind at all if it gets worse at killing things the more damage it takes.

This newest batch of rumors(which are far milder than the nightmare text wall posted last week) has restored some hope for me about AoS. I've got 16 years invested in this game, I'd really like to keep it going but I have to feel it's still worth the cost and effort.

**warboss**

adamsouza wrote:
drunkorc wrote:
By the Gods,.. after all kinds of cool base's i made,.. I am going to sooo not be happy breaking over 1000 Base's , If thats true, im Sticking with the 8th. ed ... i just cant Break apart what took me years to do,... some are even over 25 y.o. I started back in 1980's,...

There is no need to rebase your modes.

Indeed, I don't plan to either. I've still got 10 2nd ed termies on 25mm although I do bring some litko balsa 40mm bases to put under them if someone really raises a stink and wants me to break the rules. If you do, just buy some of the conversion kits that fit on the outside instead of actually ripping off the model from the base and redoing them. Also, all your bases are belong to us.

**Talys**

warboss wrote:
Indeed, I don't plan to either. I've still got 10 2nd ed termies on 25mm although I do bring some litko balsa 40mm bases to put under them if someone really raises a stink and wants me to break the rules. If you do, just buy some of the conversion kits that fit on the outside instead of actually ripping off the model from the base and redoing them. Also, all your bases are belong to us.

I have about forty 25mm termies painted ... and about seventy 50 mm termies painted

And probably 5x that unpainted hehehehe. Why, oh why, must one of the most iconic model types be so CRAPPY that the models are only playable in the most contrived scenarios? O.o

**drunkorc**

Ratius wrote:
The more things change, the more they stay the same.

Patience younglings, patience.

Salvation/damnation is but a fortnight away..........

Not an oldschool whfb player Notprop. He has a lord and 6-7 "biggish" units.
Is that bad in terms of this new edition?

Herohammer?

Dear Sir,.. Chaos Warriors back then were 74Pts. a pop, Marauders 39Pts a pop, and Thugs 8Pts. funny i still have the Warhammer Army's book in my Room,..

Whats funny is on P.62, Dave Andrews With his Bretonnian Army,.. all his Knights are not Citadel models,... as well as some of his Troops,... but that was back when you could use other Models for Giants and What not, ahh the good old days

**overtyrant**

mikhaila wrote:
-Statlines will be more along the line of the die roll needed.

Many of Mantic game's use this type of system and it helps speed things along.

**Yodhrin**

warboss wrote:
adamsouza wrote:
drunkorc wrote:
By the Gods,.. after all kinds of cool base's i made,.. I am going to sooo not be happy breaking over 1000 Base's , If thats true, im Sticking with the 8th. ed ... i just cant Break apart what took me years to do,... some are even over 25 y.o. I started back in 1980's,...

There is no need to rebase your modes.

Indeed, I don't plan to either. I've still got 10 2nd ed termies on 25mm although I do bring some litko balsa 40mm bases to put under them if someone really raises a stink and wants me to break the rules. If you do, just buy some of the conversion kits that fit on the outside instead of actually ripping off the model from the base and redoing them. Also, all your bases are belong to us.

Actually if the companies doing plastic base adapters for 40K got involved that would be useful; turn 20mm square into 25mm rounds and 25mm square into 32mm rounds maybe?

**warboss**

Yodhrin wrote:
warboss wrote:
adamsouza wrote:
drunkorc wrote:
By the Gods,.. after all kinds of cool base's i made,.. I am going to sooo not be happy breaking over 1000 Base's , If thats true, im Sticking with the 8th. ed ... i just cant Break apart what took me years to do,... some are even over 25 y.o. I started back in 1980's,...

There is no need to rebase your modes.

Indeed, I don't plan to either. I've still got 10 2nd ed termies on 25mm although I do bring some litko balsa 40mm bases to put under them if someone really raises a stink and wants me to break the rules. If you do, just buy some of the conversion kits that fit on the outside instead of actually ripping off the model from the base and redoing them. Also, all your bases are belong to us.

Actually if the companies doing plastic base adapters for 40K got involved that would be useful; turn 20mm square into 25mm rounds and 25mm square into 32mm rounds maybe?

Not possible mathematically.

https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080316193104AASCDN7

The 20mm square base would fit into the new 32mm ones but the 25mm wouldn't and would have to go to a 40mm.

**Las**

So, at this point how much evidence points to this as the next step for WHFB rather than a larger-than-normal spacehulk or assassinorum type game?

**Slinky**

Las wrote:
So, at this point how much evidence points to this as the next step for WHFB rather than a larger-than-normal spacehulk or assassinorum type game?

The main point is that GW stores have stripped all the old WHFB rules off the shelves and replaced it with AoS teasers.

**Wonderwolf**

Las wrote:
So, at this point how much evidence points to this as the next step for WHFB rather than a larger-than-normal spacehulk or assassinorum type game?

GW advertising it a month in advance, which happend for 40K 7th, but not Space Hulk or Assassinorum.

GW adding a little line to all WFB army books, saying they'll be pulled from the website for AoS.

**Las**

Okay, cool. Thanks for that. Rumour threads are a pain to dig through.

Also, what're the chances that we can all decide to call this Nigmohammer if it sucks?

**Donomar**

Slinky wrote:
Las wrote:
So, at this point how much evidence points to this as the next step for WHFB rather than a larger-than-normal spacehulk or assassinorum type game?

The main point is that GW stores have stripped all the old WHFB rules off the shelves and replaced it with AoS teasers.

That's fine stripping away the main rulebook from stock (fresh new edition and all that) but I fail to see how scrapping the existing fluff and removing all the existing army rulebooks provides any incentive for existing WHFB to buy into this new creation. Even if rules for many existing models are provided in the new book (or given away free on the website), the writing is clearly on the wall that a good portion of the existing range will slowly be removed over the next 1-2 years.

**Thunderfrog**

Las wrote:
Okay, cool. Thanks for that. Rumour threads are a pain to dig through.

Also, what're the chances that we can all decide to call this Nigmohammer if it sucks?

Probably very low.

**Zywus**

Las wrote:
Also, what're the chances that we can all decide to call this Nigmohammer if it sucks?

Sounds like a good idea.

8th edition; played by those who choose not to purchase the new edition but instead keeps holding on to their money could then be called Niggardlyhammer.

eh?

**quindia**

drunkorc wrote:
Ratius wrote:
The more things change, the more they stay the same.

Patience younglings, patience.

Salvation/damnation is but a fortnight away..........

Not an oldschool whfb player Notprop. He has a lord and 6-7 "biggish" units.
Is that bad in terms of this new edition?

Herohammer?

Dear Sir,.. Chaos Warriors back then were 74Pts. a pop, Marauders 39Pts a pop, and Thugs 8Pts. funny i still have the Warhammer Army's book in my Room,.. Whats funny is on P.62, Dave Andrews With his Bretonnian Army,.. all his Knights are not Citadel models,... as well as some of his Troops,... but that was back when you could use other Models for Giants and What not, ahh the good old days

His knights WERE Citadel models from their Historical Range.. Wargames Foundry now sells them as 'Ex-Citadel'... http://www.wargamesfoundry.com/our-ranges/ex-citadel

**Eldarain**

Lt. Donomar StubbornBull wrote:
Slinky wrote:
Las wrote:
So, at this point how much evidence points to this as the next step for WHFB rather than a larger-than-normal spacehulk or assassinorum type game?

The main point is that GW stores have stripped all the old WHFB rules off the shelves and replaced it with AoS teasers.

That's fine stripping away the main rulebook from stock (fresh new edition and all that) but I fail to see how scrapping the existing fluff and removing all the existing army rulebooks provides any incentive for existing WHFB to buy into this new creation. Even if rules for many existing models are provided in the new book (or given away free on the website), the writing is clearly on the wall that a good portion of the existing range will slowly be removed over the next 1-2 years.

Not necessarily. What it says to me is that the mechanics, the way you make your army and the points costs are changing sufficiently where the 8th books won't be compatible. A similar situation to the 5th-6th transition where we were using the same miniatures but the old books were designed under a completely different system.

**Vermis**

mikhaila wrote:
- There will be some free downloads to give unit stats for older models. These won't be in the book itself. The stats online are a onetime thing, meaning they won't be maintaining it or adding info for it going forward.

Typical GW - limited edition free downloads.

Mind you, I have a feeling I'll snap them all up even if I never play a game of AoS. (Which is reasonably likely)

**Relapse**

drunkorc wrote:
Ratius wrote:
The more things change, the more they stay the same.

Patience younglings, patience.

Salvation/damnation is but a fortnight away..........

Not an oldschool whfb player Notprop. He has a lord and 6-7 "biggish" units.
Is that bad in terms of this new edition?

Herohammer?

Dear Sir,.. Chaos Warriors back then were 74Pts. a pop, Marauders 39Pts a pop, and Thugs 8Pts. funny i still have the Warhammer Army's book in my Room,.. Whats funny is on P.62, Dave Andrews With his Bretonnian Army,.. all his Knights are not Citadel models,... as well as some of his Troops,... but that was back when you could use other Models for Giants and What not, ahh the good old days

Chaos Thugs. There's a unit I haven't heard of in a while. One of the best games of Warhammer I ever played involved my army consisting of several Thug units, demons, Knights, wizards, etc. against my opponent's force of Orks, chaos units, undead and other nasties. The game consisted of sessions of four hours at a pop covering a three day span that came down, in Arthurian fashion, to my last wizard against his last unit of Orks. The champion of the unit had a Spell Eater Shield and the only thing that the wizard could do to avoid getting killed was to cast Black Horror or some such spell that managed to get by the shield and suck the Orks off to an awful fate, leaving him the last man standing on the field.
Hard to believe it 's been over 20 years ago.

**mikhaila**

Vermis wrote:
mikhaila wrote:
- There will be some free downloads to give unit stats for older models. These won't be in the book itself. The stats online are a onetime thing, meaning they won't be maintaining it or adding info for it going forward.

Typical GW - limited edition free downloads.

Mind you, I have a feeling I'll snap them all up even if I never play a game of AoS. (Which is reasonably likely)

Not so much that the download will be taken down...

Just that going forward, it won't be updated, added to, or enhanced in any way. It's meant to give you rules for older models, not as a resource for all models in the game going forward. Or at least that was how i read it Who knows? With GW mabe they only leave it up a month

**ComTrav**

Ratius wrote:
Maybe but say this:

3.30 a model

http://www.games-workshop.com/en-IE/Empire-Greatswords

VS

http://www.games-workshop.com/en-IE/Space-Marine-Tactical-Squad-2015

3.50 a model

So, what, they jack the empire to 40-50 a box? raising per model to 4 or 5? I dunno, are GW that cwayzee?

Which is kind of funny. "Goldswords" used to be expensive, but they have stayed pretty even in price, while 40K prices keep going up.

**OgreChubbs**

Well with all books going on june 26 even storm of magic and treachery i am done. On june 4 i think i will be leaving the hobby and this board for good . Guess it has been a good run.