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 mikhaila wrote:


First I've heard of that. Sales reps will certainly encourage stores to run things...if they can...but GW has feth all to do with running events. As of monday, they had no plans, or suggestions, for running events. The only thing i heard was limiting people to same number of war scrolls, wounds, or models. None of these work. I'll be working with my rep and his boss tomorrow on trying to figure out how to run an event, and have each person bring roughly the same strength army.

This is just tragic. I'm glad you are really pressing them, but it's really tragic that they likely won't be able to come up with anything. I hope it goes up the chain from sales to ears that can do something about it. I feel real empathy for those poor salespeople that have to pitch this stuff, but can't actually defend the products they are trying to sell.

Hey Mikhalia,

Just an idea I thought of, but limiting number of warscrolls, models AND how many "1 model" warscrolls you can have might be a quick fix.

E.g. 5 Warscrolls, max 50 models, max 2 "1 model" warscrolls. This should hopefully curve rampant Nagash spam :-)

The guys in US trade sales really get stuck in a bad spot.

The UK has few gaming stores, the US has thousands. But the UK sets the policy, limits their knowledge, and tells them how they are supposed to pitch things. And they have to deal with FLGS store owners. Most of which are independent as all hell, stubborn, and working hard to not lose what little money they get. Imagine getting a call about Age of Sigmar, which suddenly is coming out on the same day as a MTG pre-release event, and asking stores for 5500 dollars. Most stores buy as much MTG as they can afford and run multiple events all weekend, filling every chair they can fit in.

It's not an easy week for the GW sales reps. And while I feel for them, I know I'm one of the ones giving them a hard time.

 insaniak wrote:
There are no rules for army creation. You just bring everything you want to bring, and deploy as much or as little of it as you want.

And the fact that we're this far in and people still can't see why that's a problem worries me.

So 50 Demigryphons vs 50 Goblins?

Guys, just stop trying to balance this piece of garbage.

GW has never stopped running events at Warhammer World...
for years White Dwarf has featured people's doubles armies for WHFB, 40K, and LotR...
they have Throne of Skulls, Battle Brothers, and a few other regular events...
there is a summer campaign, and events scheduled for August since before the re-opening...
happily, for me, Golden Demon is being hosted there now...

i think a very telling thing will be if any AoS events pop-up on the calendar...
that would definitely be an indicator that there is a way to play this game competitively...

i'm firmly in the wait and see camp...
i have a feeling there will be a way for players to organize their armies, and all the hyperbole like, "bring 30 Bloodthirsters" will be shown to be just that...

cheers
jah

Do we know if the White Dwarf is going to cost the same as other White Dwarf mags cost? With the mini?

If it's four bucks for the magazine with all the shiny pictures and the sigmarine, definitely worth a buy.

But if they pull gak and try to charge extra because it's bundled with a miniature, probably not.

The rules add nothing to the cost. The "free" mini simply feeds the completist bent of most gamers. GW will sell far more stuff after giving 1 mini than they would without rules or mini.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
GW will sell far more stuff after giving 1 mini than they would without rules or mini.

Probably true.

Also- someone linked me this video, not sure if it's been posted here. Some guy managed to get his hands on the contents of the mag and flipped through it.

Only a few notable things I hadn't heard before. Stuff seems to have a lot more wounds than the old warhammer. The guys with the hammers and shields are called 'Liberators', and their unit champion is the hilariously named 'Liberator Prime'

 Mysterious Pants wrote:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
GW will sell far more stuff after giving 1 mini than they would without rules or mini.

Only a few notable things I hadn't heard before. Stuff seems to have a lot more wounds than the old warhammer. The guys with the hammers and shields are called 'Liberators', and their unit champion is the hilariously named 'Liberator Prime']

I'm telling Hasbro

I am of the view that this weekends release is the initial set-up, core rules and starting the lore. They release the rules so you can play the contents of the box or fill in with your existing army and get used to the new rules, the books are released to start the story going, starting the following week they release a campaign similar to the End times in which you will have scenarios and ways to play and build your armies but the core rules are what is released this weekend. It works with the whole "no more rule books coming" because technically its not a rule book its a campaign book with its own unique rules/scenarios. We then get a few campaigns a year and when we call up a mate to say "hey want to play a game of Age of Sigmar" you work out which campaign you want to play in order to determine what set-up you bring (I am assuming each campaign will be based on a realm, as the rules directly reference picking a realm but don't elaborate).

Thats my current thinking, the lack of army creation beyond "do what ever you want" just doesn't fit, even for GW. Sure, things as is may interest and bring in new players but it wont keep them, some sort of competition would be needed to do that and as is there is none.

I am willing to give them a couple of weeks to flesh things out before I write them off entirely. Technically it hasn't even been released so there is a lot of premature writing off, for all we know come Saturday the GW website will start putting out how to play articles or something crazy.

Fezza

I probably missed a lot of debate, but why would there be points values or limits on the size of units for the starter kit? The quick play rules are for the units in the box, and don't give you anything special beyond wyswyg of the models included. At least in 40K.

did I miss some news that these barebones datasheet/scroll things are the full version, or just get you by versions specific to the units in the box?

 Avrik_Shasla wrote:

 Crimson Devil wrote:

 Avrik_Shasla wrote:

Kendo wrote:

 Avrik_Shasla wrote:

Kendo wrote:
I don't think you need your proposed fix. The whole deployment system is a super strategic aspect of the game where each opponent is constantly counting and assessing the other enemies strengths and determining if now is the time to drop that 100 strong unit of skagen slaves and try for overwhelming numbers or keep numbers low and go for sudden death.

You serious? From what everyone is believing online, I can bring 10,000 models to a tournament and fight against anyone there, and it's legal.

the rules don't mention anything about tournaments. You could however bring 100000 models to my house, spend 3 hours trying to squeeze a 100th of them on to my gaming table while we laughed and drank beer and I asked how you kept you sanity putting that many models together. When I was drunk and you were done we would play one round and I would lose and she'd no tears over it.
Or you could bring a force that would offer meaningful competition based on the gaming social contract and we could still drink beer and actually get a couple games in.
Your call my friend.

Seeing that Games Workshop already confirmed through Reps that there are planned leagues and tournaments, I'd assume so.

So you believe the Reps are telling the truth about Leagues and Tournaments but lying to all of the Store Owners about the rules?

Was just going by your logic.

Not my logic. I think you're wires are crossed.

Did no one else notice the guy whose FB post about the lack of a balancing system got a "wink" comment from the Mantic guy who now works on design at GW? However small, that is a sign that there is something there we don't know about yet.

Yeah, keep up that wishfull thinking.
In all honestly.. they just released the FULL RULES of a new game system which is in our understanding completely broken.
Do you HONESTLY think they'll do such a stunt and a few from now say HAHA fooled you!

 Lt. Donomar StubbornBull wrote:

 Mysterious Pants wrote:
Only a few notable things I hadn't heard before. Stuff seems to have a lot more wounds than the old warhammer. The guys with the hammers and shields are called 'Liberators', and their unit champion is the hilariously named 'Liberator Prime']

I'm telling Hasbro

Not Hasbro, Bethesda.

So the Keywords on the Warscrolls are apparently just names for Special Rules (which I predicted, not sure if it's been brought up in this thread).

That would mean that there is more, perhaps MUCH more, than just the 4pg Rule set and Warscrolls?

Mymearan wrote:
a sign that there is something there we don't know about yet

How could this be possible???

 Dr. Cheesesteak wrote:
That would mean that there is more, perhaps MUCH more, than just the 4pg Rule set and Warscrolls?

The four pages constitute a "rule sheet." There is also a 96-page book in the box, which apparently includes (in addition to the fluff as advertised) the warscrolls. I am willing to bet there are other rules in there, too.

The Liberator model that comes with WD75 is super cool. I preordered the box on the strength of the models. If the game is fun, that's a bonus. If not, I will use them for something else.

RoninXiC wrote:
Yeah, keep up that wishfull thinking.
In all honestly.. they just released the FULL RULES of a new game system which is in our understanding completely broken.
Do you HONESTLY think they'll do such a stunt and a few from now say HAHA fooled you!

That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying, why would one of GWs designers bother to comment on such a post if there wasn't something to it?

 Dr. Cheesesteak wrote:
So the Keywords on the Warscrolls are apparently just names for Special Rules

I don't think so. I think the keywords are terms evoked in certain special rules. See, e.g., the Lord Celestant's Command Ability.

 Dr. Cheesesteak wrote:
So the Keywords on the Warscrolls are apparently just names for Special Rules (which I predicted, not sure if it's been brought up in this thread).

That would mean that there is more, perhaps MUCH more, than just the 4pg Rule set and Warscrolls?

Are you sure about that? I assumed that they are just Types/Subtypes for other special rules to refer to. For example, the Magic: the Gathering card Metallic Sliver has the subtype "Sliver" which doesn't do anything on its own, but other cards have special rules that look for that subtype.

 Manchu wrote:

 Dr. Cheesesteak wrote:
So the Keywords on the Warscrolls are apparently just names for Special Rules

I don't think so. I think the keywords are terms evoked in certain special rules. See, e.g., the Lord Celestant's Command Ability.

youre right. my logic was reversed.

Didn't bother reading all this debacle where people who haven't even touched the game already magically know it's broken ( sorry, you don't ) but did people already notice that every Citadel miniature in the Warhammer range will receive a warscroll of which most are free to download?

That's why the armybooks were removed. I don't think anyone can say anything else except that it's a very nice move from GW. Everyone can use most of their old collections, and with free rules for the new game.

 Dr. Cheesesteak wrote:
youre right. my logic was reversed.

That said, I think you are still right about the possibility of more rules somewhere in the 96-page book ... specifically, I am guessing the book contains scenario rules that include which units you use. I know that's hardly a point-buy system useful for pick-up games and tournament balance. But GW has shown total ambivalence to army building and tournament gaming for a long time now.

 Manchu wrote:

The Liberator model that comes with WD75 is super cool. I preordered the box on the strength of the models. If the game is fun, that's a bonus. If not, I will use them for something else.

I did the same. I was originally thinking of passing (I still have an unpainted Isle of Blood and thousands of dollars of unpainted Fantasy models...), but they had me at the cat guy and the angels. When I look at the closeups and the Chaos fellas, I had to preorder one. If the terrain pieces are really nice, I might have to get two :X Third party fantasy terrain is expensive anyhow, and I'd love more of those angel minis.

The freebie model in WD75 is awesome. I mean, what's not to like about a free mini that's a full quality GW sculpt? I was totally not expecting that one

I know a lot of people like the "ranks of models" thing of WHFB, so I sympathize with the departure from that, but personally, I love the heroic poses. If that's the direction of the Fantasy models, I may end up buying more of them and painting them between 40k stuff.

We'll see about the game. I'm sure I'll try it with just the models in the box with buddies, and see where it goes. I'm not a fan of WHFB 8e, so **shrug** we'll see -- if all this talk of adding models and unbalancing the game plays out that way, maybe we'll just play with the models that come with the Sigmar set.

 Runic wrote:
That's why the armybooks were removed. I don't think anyone can say anything else except that it's a very nice move from GW.

To me, this is a big deal. In 40k, having a 50 USD codex come out every 1-2 years is a major, major turn off ... especially when it is basically incomplete thanks to dataslates, etc. I am so glad army books are gone. Free warscrolls are a tremendous boon.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Talys wrote:
The freebie model in WD75 is awesome. I mean, what's not to like about a free mini that's a full quality GW sculpt?

Like the trade dress on the box and the logo, this is a throwback to the good old days.

 mikhaila wrote:
The guys in US trade sales really get stuck in a bad spot.

The UK has few gaming stores, the US has thousands. But the UK sets the policy, limits their knowledge, and tells them how they are supposed to pitch things.

While I don't condone GW actions GW is a British company not an American company so yes they should set the policy (no matter how poor/ridiculous they are) and have the main HQ n home ground.

What if the wars rolls have stuff like this on it:

- Unique: Your army may only contain one of this type of warscroll
- Rare: Your army may only contain one of this type of warscroll per three (3) Core warscrolls, you may only deploy one Rare warscroll per three (3) deployed Core warscrolls.
- Special: Your army may only contain one of this type of warscroll per one (1) Core warscrolls, you may only deploy one Special warscroll per one (1) deployed Core warscrolls.


Suddenly there is another layer of complexity to the system...

 Sikil wrote:
What if the wars rolls have stuff like this on it:

- Unique: Your army may only contain one of this type of warscroll
- Rare: Your army may only contain one of this type of warscroll per three (3) Core warscrolls, you may only deploy one Rare warscroll per three (3) deployed Core warscrolls.
- Special: Your army may only contain one of this type of warscroll per one (1) Core warscrolls, you may only deploy one Special warscroll per one (1) deployed Core warscrolls.


Suddenly there is another layer of complexity to the system...

But then it doesn't matter because some war scrolls have no model cap... which means there is always the possibility of stupidity.

Just thinking aloud, but deploying in rank and file will still be good, because you can limit the amount the enemy can get into contact with you. For weak units you can tarpit the enemy and stay in a solid block to reduce casualties.