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Plumbumbarum wrote:

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
It's like a train wreck

But one made from two circus trains colliding.

A collosal, terrible, flaming, buring, hysterical train wreck with burning clowns running around spaying it with seltzer bottles while ring masters cry out how everything is fine and we should all come in while the dancing elephants lurch around leaving trails of blood behind them.

How could I look away?

Best description of Age of Sorrow so far. I laugh out loud with every shade of laughter sth like 3 times per page on average

It's only now that I see how easily they could have bought me despite my eternal nostalgia for whfb and those lovely little regiments on those lovely little squares (cries) - a good trimmed down ruleset, some grimdark artwork, fluff making sense and the magic of warhammer name would make me subconsciously drink the koolaid in no time. But this, this is so pathetic that it makes the initial, "fear mongering" rumors sound like good news.

Yeah. It's weird. I was looking at some of my army books earlier and the art and stuff is really damn cool. The whole Warhammer World is really cool, and it's just gone.

Gotta laugh about it really.

Things are getting that bad, people are on their knees begging God to make Steve The Warbosses' rumours come true

Even his half-ass predictions would be a major improvement on this rubbish

It's like watching a baby seal being clubbed to death with a very small hammer

And as I said earlier, the worst part?

We can't even blame Mat Ward for this

I suppose this will determine if people buy GW for the game, or just the models.

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:


We can't even blame Mat Ward for this

I lol'd at this. He's like the GW Bush of miniature gaming..

•Hay manual gordo seguro... Pero seguro seguro...
-There will be a fat[big] rulebook... for sure.
•Eso os lo confirmo ya. Otra cosa es que no lo llamen reglamento sino "expansion" para batallas masivas. Rercordad que la caja de Age of Sigmar es para introducir al juego, tipo Isla de Sangre (por cierto es la leche la ilustración de la cubierta).
- I can confirm you that. A different matter is that they won't call it rulebook, but rather "expansion" for massive battles. Remember that the AoS box is a game introduction, kind of like Island of Blood (By the way, the box illustration is awesome).
•El meollo de la cuestión, para los jugadores veteranos llega a finales de mes principios de agosto, con la "nueva magia", "nuevos objetos mágicos", reglas, trasfondo ampliado y facciones explicadas y desgranadas (lo salchichero ampliado).
- Going into specifics, for veteran players it will arrive by the end of the month or start of august, with the "new magic", "new magic objects", rules, expanded background and explained and disected factions (the meaty part expanded).
•Dicen que es para batallas masivas o semimasivas no escaramuzas así que... Mantened la calma.
- They are saying it's about massive or halfway massive battles, not skirmishes, so... Stay calm.
•Y luego llegan los manuales de las facciones... que serían los codex actuales... en lanzamientos tipo 40k... con sus punticos y trasfondo etc...
- Next, faction books... which are the current codex... 40K style... point cost and fluff included, etc.
•Así que gratis, gratis... y pocas reglas... Bueno pues sí, te compras una caja y te viene una carta pero a la hora de la verdad si quieres jugar algo complejo... te tocará soltar la pasta...
-So, free, freee... and few rules... Well, yes, you buy a box and you get a card, but in the end, if you want to play something complex, you'll have to pay up.

Same spanish source that told us about round bases and the new game months before anyone else.

 Sinful Hero wrote:
I suppose this will determine if people buy GW for the game, or just the models.

Well, GW has been claiming they are a miniatures company, not a game company. I think AoS is their way of underlining that statement.

The names are the biggest laugh for me.. because they'll do nothing for what they want, which is IP protection.. there is nothing they can do to any of those races that makes them unique to what has already gone before via other fantasy settings.

Its a total lesson in futility. What ever they are called, it won't stop anyone producing models that sorta look close enough and are just called Orcs, Elves, whatever.

 XT-1984 wrote:

•Hay manual gordo seguro... Pero seguro seguro...
-There will be a fat[big] rulebook... for sure.
•Eso os lo confirmo ya. Otra cosa es que no lo llamen reglamento sino "expansion" para batallas masivas. Rercordad que la caja de Age of Sigmar es para introducir al juego, tipo Isla de Sangre (por cierto es la leche la ilustración de la cubierta).
- I can confirm you that. A different matter is that they won't call it rulebook, but rather "expansion" for massive battles. Remember that the AoS box is a game introduction, kind of like Island of Blood (By the way, the box illustration is awesome).
•El meollo de la cuestión, para los jugadores veteranos llega a finales de mes principios de agosto, con la "nueva magia", "nuevos objetos mágicos", reglas, trasfondo ampliado y facciones explicadas y desgranadas (lo salchichero ampliado).
- Going into specifics, for veteran players it will arrive by the end of the month or start of august, with the "new magic", "new magic objects", rules, expanded background and explained and disected factions (the meaty part expanded).
•Dicen que es para batallas masivas o semimasivas no escaramuzas así que... Mantened la calma.
- They are saying it's about massive or halfway massive battles, not skirmishes, so... Stay calm.
•Y luego llegan los manuales de las facciones... que serían los codex actuales... en lanzamientos tipo 40k... con sus punticos y trasfondo etc...
- Next, faction books... which are the current codex... 40K style... point cost and fluff included, etc.
•Así que gratis, gratis... y pocas reglas... Bueno pues sí, te compras una caja y te viene una carta pero a la hora de la verdad si quieres jugar algo complejo... te tocará soltar la pasta...
-So, free, freee... and few rules... Well, yes, you buy a box and you get a card, but in the end, if you want to play something complex, you'll have to pay up.

Same spanish source that told us about round bases and the new game months before anyone else.

Link to original?

Also, it's not a fat rulebook. It's not at the start of august. Not new magic, new magic objects. And so far, GW is saying this is it and no further expansion. So they were partially right.

 Necros wrote:
How about a "Scroll Point" system based on how the troops and stuff are done nowadays? Like...

Core = 1 Scroll, Special = 2 Scrolls, Rare & Heroes = 4, Lords = 8, Super Mega Tough thing = 16

Then you say I'm gonna play a "15 scroll game" or "20 scroll game" or whatevers?

Or just play 8th. Or 7th with ported units and nerfed daemon. Or KoW. Or anything.

 XT-1984 wrote:

•Hay manual gordo seguro... Pero seguro seguro...
-There will be a fat[big] rulebook... for sure.
•Eso os lo confirmo ya. Otra cosa es que no lo llamen reglamento sino "expansion" para batallas masivas. Rercordad que la caja de Age of Sigmar es para introducir al juego, tipo Isla de Sangre (por cierto es la leche la ilustración de la cubierta).
- I can confirm you that. A different matter is that they won't call it rulebook, but rather "expansion" for massive battles. Remember that the AoS box is a game introduction, kind of like Island of Blood (By the way, the box illustration is awesome).
•El meollo de la cuestión, para los jugadores veteranos llega a finales de mes principios de agosto, con la "nueva magia", "nuevos objetos mágicos", reglas, trasfondo ampliado y facciones explicadas y desgranadas (lo salchichero ampliado).
- Going into specifics, for veteran players it will arrive by the end of the month or start of august, with the "new magic", "new magic objects", rules, expanded background and explained and disected factions (the meaty part expanded).
•Dicen que es para batallas masivas o semimasivas no escaramuzas así que... Mantened la calma.
- They are saying it's about massive or halfway massive battles, not skirmishes, so... Stay calm.
•Y luego llegan los manuales de las facciones... que serían los codex actuales... en lanzamientos tipo 40k... con sus punticos y trasfondo etc...
- Next, faction books... which are the current codex... 40K style... point cost and fluff included, etc.
•Así que gratis, gratis... y pocas reglas... Bueno pues sí, te compras una caja y te viene una carta pero a la hora de la verdad si quieres jugar algo complejo... te tocará soltar la pasta...
-So, free, freee... and few rules... Well, yes, you buy a box and you get a card, but in the end, if you want to play something complex, you'll have to pay up.

Same spanish source that told us about round bases and the new game months before anyone else.

Don't know the validity of that source, but I do know that sounds like the most "GW" thing to do. Lying en masse to move a current product, while the more lucrative money grab is in the cooker.

Plus, do you realize how much unearned good-will they will try to claim when they bring "back" the mass-battles for fans who miss it?

 XT-1984 wrote:

•Hay manual gordo seguro... Pero seguro seguro...
-There will be a fat[big] rulebook... for sure.
•Eso os lo confirmo ya. Otra cosa es que no lo llamen reglamento sino "expansion" para batallas masivas. Rercordad que la caja de Age of Sigmar es para introducir al juego, tipo Isla de Sangre (por cierto es la leche la ilustración de la cubierta).
- I can confirm you that. A different matter is that they won't call it rulebook, but rather "expansion" for massive battles. Remember that the AoS box is a game introduction, kind of like Island of Blood (By the way, the box illustration is awesome).
•El meollo de la cuestión, para los jugadores veteranos llega a finales de mes principios de agosto, con la "nueva magia", "nuevos objetos mágicos", reglas, trasfondo ampliado y facciones explicadas y desgranadas (lo salchichero ampliado).
- Going into specifics, for veteran players it will arrive by the end of the month or start of august, with the "new magic", "new magic objects", rules, expanded background and explained and disected factions (the meaty part expanded).
•Dicen que es para batallas masivas o semimasivas no escaramuzas así que... Mantened la calma.
- They are saying it's about massive or halfway massive battles, not skirmishes, so... Stay calm.
•Y luego llegan los manuales de las facciones... que serían los codex actuales... en lanzamientos tipo 40k... con sus punticos y trasfondo etc...
- Next, faction books... which are the current codex... 40K style... point cost and fluff included, etc.
•Así que gratis, gratis... y pocas reglas... Bueno pues sí, te compras una caja y te viene una carta pero a la hora de la verdad si quieres jugar algo complejo... te tocará soltar la pasta...
-So, free, freee... and few rules... Well, yes, you buy a box and you get a card, but in the end, if you want to play something complex, you'll have to pay up.

Same spanish source that told us about round bases and the new game months before anyone else.

See.. if this is true, it's exactly the type of thing I was talking about. There's a hole in the bucket though, so all these tears are never gonna fill it up :/

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:

Plus, do you realize how much unearned good-will they will try to claim when they bring "back" the mass-battles for fans who miss it?

There's nothing to 'bring back', since they're saying that AoS scales up for massive battles as is.

 Lord_Mortis wrote:
So DC comics has Convergence, Marvel comics has Secret Wars, and now GW has Age of Sigmar. Is this the summer of reboots or what?

Naw, convergence doesn't count.

They did that craptastic event because DC is moving offices from New York, where they were at for 60 years, to the Warner Bros offices in LA. They had a ton of second string (and a few good writers) knock out a two month event to hold them over while they moved. I even had someone at DC call and warn me about ordering too much, because the tie ins sucked so much

But yes, I agree, everything is reboot.

 MLaw wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:


We can't even blame Mat Ward for this

I lol'd at this. He's like the GW Bush of miniature gaming..

For as long as I can remember, dakka's default position was to blame Mat ward for everything that went wrong in the world

Army book broken? Blame Mat Ward.

Range Ruler whippy sticks with 17 inches instead of 18? Blame Mat Ward.

D6 dice without a number 5? Blame Mat Ward

North Korea threatening South Korea? Blame Mat Ward

Eldar Codex broken? Blame...actually, that Was Phil Kelly

They should have just called it 'Warhammer Vista'.

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

 MLaw wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:


We can't even blame Mat Ward for this

I lol'd at this. He's like the GW Bush of miniature gaming..

For as long as I can remember, dakka's default position was to blame Mat ward for everything that went wrong in the world

Army book broken? Blame Mat Ward.

Range Ruler whippy sticks with 17 inches instead of 18? Blame Mat Ward.

D6 dice without a number 5? Blame Mat Ward

North Korea threatening South Korea? Blame Mat Ward

Eldar Codex broken? Blame...actually, that Was Phil Kelly

All hail Phil Kelly. He is the true patron god of the Eldar.

 bubber wrote:
They should have just called it 'Warhammer Vista'.

Is there anything out there that suggests or implies that the storm cast eternals will be getting models that can use weapons other than hammers? I personally am not a fan of them as IF I ever get any I would first replace the heads with grey knight heads and then find a way to change the shoulder pads. Right now they are too cartoony, but with enough extra bitz I could make them somewhat palatable.

 Sledgehammer wrote:
Is there anything out there that suggests or implies that the storm cast eternals will be getting models that can use weapons other than hammers? I personally am not a fan of them as IF I ever get any I would first replace the heads with grey knight heads and then find a way to change the shoulder pads. Right now they are too cartoony, but with enough extra bitz I could make them somewhat palatable.

Just like with Ork Nobz or any other starter box stuff, I imagine they general release for GW's Scibor knockoffs will not be as limited as the starter box kits.. Sometimes my imagination gets the best of me though o_0

There are a bunch of things that just don't add up with this development.
The rules being bad is one of them. GW never make the best of rules, clunky, unbalanced and poorly written yes, but the core rulebooks are generally functional, codex/army books often break the game afterwards of course. But these are just bad. Even with Dreadfleet I could see what they were trying to achieve, but here I have no clue. Its too simplistic to appeal to current fantasy players, not enough direction within the rules for new players to get a foothold in the game properly, who is it for?
Next is timing, the Total computer game is about to introduce the old world top a potential new audience in the million plus range (the last few have reached those numbers), but any crossover is gone, because that world has been removed. This is the bit that really confuses me, because I could even look at this game and think maybe its intended for the computer game players as an introduction into table top gaming without too much worry about the intricacies of movement, challenges and so on. But this game is a different place to the old world, the focus is on the new marines in space, so will not connect with the computer game at all.
I just cannot see any reason behind what is being done at all, or where the destination is supposed to be.

Weren't the other books coming confirmed by some WD pic? Would be armybooks probably and if there was indeed a mass battles suplement and it was the armybooks having points and unit sizes for warscrolls, wouldn't it make the reps words about Age of Simple itself having no points somehow a bit but not really in a twisted way true? Not that I hope or even care, waste of emotions at this point.

If that was the case, the order chaos destruction deat thing would be a blessing, no Dumbarin or Ogorors or sth armybooks.

I love you fantasy guys and all, but this needs to fail on a massive scale. I mean it needs to really really drag GW down next quarter.

For no other reason than to keep this no points bull gak from poisoning 40k further. I mean we already have to suffer with your awful magic system. Now we'll more than likely inherit your lawless points system for 8th. Smh.

They really just needed to stop releasing new things for Fantasy altogether, like never say anything to anyone, keep making what they already make, but just never update it again and see if anyone ever noticed. Instead we get this and it will sell to morons and then they'll be all like "Oh well I guess the fantasy guys liked the pamphlet of rules and no points. So let's burn our other property to the ground as well."

All hail Kirby.

 bubber wrote:
They should have just called it 'Warhammer Vista'.

W.I.N.O.

Warhammer- New Coke.

Mr.Church13 wrote:
I love you fantasy guys and all, but this needs to fail on a massive scale. I mean it needs to really really drag GW down next quarter.

For no other reason than to keep this no points bull gak from poisoning 40k further. I mean we already have to suffer with your awful magic system. Now we'll more than likely inherit your lawless points system for 8th. Smh.

They really just needed to stop releasing new things for Fantasy altogether, like never say anything to anyone, keep making what they already make, but just never update it again and see if anyone ever noticed. Instead we get this and it will sell to morons and then they'll be all like "Oh well I guess the fantasy guys liked the pamphlet of rules and no points. So let's burn our other property to the ground as well."

All hail Kirby.

Lol. give it time. 40k is next

Occams Razor.

Sometimes the obvious answer is all there is.

Warhammer slouching - had been for YEARS!

Release really nice starter set (Dwarf and Goblins)
Two COMPLETE (albiet smallish) armies of high quality.
A true stand-alone product.

Sales continue to tank.

Try again!
Release even NICER Starter set (Elves and Skaven).

Sales continue to tank.
No traction and community drying up.

Realize old players are majority.

Release tons of Really LARGE and NICE and expensive models.
Make BIG SCARY Nuclear Weapons in Warhammer to attract power hungry younger gamers who just want to win.

Sales continue to tank.


Throw in the towel and REBOOT!


Die a slow death, or roll the dice and take it into an entirely NEW direction and just MAYBE save the brand.

Why the hell not?? What is there to lose?

I get all that.. but does anyone else think Sigmar's holy host turning up to try and save the old world would have been ten times cooler.. or is it just me?

RacerX wrote:
Occams Razor.

Sometimes the obvious answer is all there is.

Warhammer slouching - had been for YEARS!

Release really nice starter set (Dwarf and Goblins)
Two COMPLETE (albiet smallish) armies of high quality.
A true stand-alone product.

Sales continue to tank.

Try again!
Release even NICER Starter set (Elves and Skaven).

Sales continue to tank.
No traction and community drying up.

Realize old players are majority.

Release tons of Really LARGE and NICE and expensive models.
Make BIG SCARY Nuclear Weapons in Warhammer to attract power hungry younger gamers who just want to win.

Sales continue to tank.


Throw in the towel and REBOOT!


Die a slow death, or roll the dice and take it into an entirely NEW direction and just MAYBE save the brand.

Why the hell not?? What is there to lose?

"We do no demographic research, we have no focus groups, we do not ask the market what it wants. These things are otiose in a niche."

RacerX wrote:
Occams Razor.

Sometimes the obvious answer is all there is.

Warhammer slouching - had been for YEARS!

Release really nice starter set (Dwarf and Goblins)
Two COMPLETE (albiet smallish) armies of high quality.
A true stand-alone product.

Sales continue to tank.

Try again!
Release even NICER Starter set (Elves and Skaven).

Sales continue to tank.
No traction and community drying up.

Realize old players are majority.

Release tons of Really LARGE and NICE and expensive models.
Make BIG SCARY Nuclear Weapons in Warhammer to attract power hungry younger gamers who just want to win.

Sales continue to tank.


Throw in the towel and REBOOT!


Die a slow death, or roll the dice and take it into an entirely NEW direction and just MAYBE save the brand.

Why the hell not?? What is there to lose?

Sometimes just letting something die is the honorable thing to do. Especially when you're the company that stabbed it in the neck in the first place.

Storyline alone would not save it.

There was enough world shattering events and promotions BEFORE they actually shattered the world...

How many times can Chaos invade the Empire?
At some point they have to win right?
I think that was the static problem.

How many fresh ideas over the same old rehash can you do on the same world?

How many new armies can you release to further SEGMENT an already dwindling market? You sell 14 armies? So at MOST you sell 7% of each one. What a waste!
All that energy for 7% of a product line that MAYBE accounts for 20% of your total sales???

Economically makes no sense.

Business me agrees with what they did.

Hobbiest me is still very sad...

I wonder how long the sales slouch has been going on for? When was the tipping point? I've been playing Warhammer since 5th edition, and I definitely remember the high point being 6th/start of 7th. For me, the game started to break down with some of those army books released in late 7th. Was that the turning point, or was it 8th?

I'd really like to know.

So much going on in the world right now, and yet this is the story I'm apparently following most avidly. Go figure.