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Dancing for rerolls....

Players of Warhams, you have my deepest sympathies.

 Alpharius wrote:
It really does look like AoS is really going to help boost GW's Mantic's sales, doesn't it?

At least one company in Nottingham will be happy!

Latest Mantic newsletter is encouraging pre-orders of the KoW rulebook as they expect to sell out of the first print run due to (paraphrasing here) "a sudden increase in interest... for some reason"

It occurred to me this afternoon that with all the proposed attempt to create tournament friendly house rules, the one way this game would work is to follow the card game precedent, and run it as a blind draft...

Basically, everyone provides a pool of minis, you pile up all the corresponding warscrolls, shuffle them up, and deal them out randomly to each player. Possibly set a cap - each player gets 10 scrolls, you use 7 of those 10 to make your list, sort of thing.

Obviously, it would rely on players not minding other people using their stuff... But it would help counter the inherent issues in list building without having to balance anything.

Or just bring two armies and your opponent picks who plays what?

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
Very true. Points values and decent lists isn't just about competitive play or tournament play, it's about being able to put down a playable game where the outcome isn't determined in the army selection phase.

It doesn't matter how "reasonable" players might be, if you have no reference to the value of different units, you have no starting point for determining what might work for a game.

I find points values important even for narrative games. What if you're trying to forge the narrative of a desperate last stand against unfathomable odds? You don't want the game to last 2 turns with your the last standers being wiped out almost instantly because that's boring. You also don't want to go too far the other way and have the last standers actually winning them game Without points for a reference and/or a lot of past experience all you can hope to do is somewhat randomly put units down and forge the narrative of "something random happens".

All I know is that this weekend I'm bringing 7 dark elf assassins to the table. Sudden death rules, assassination, pick your VIP and I'll murder it.

 angelofvengeance wrote:
New units for Sigmarites here plus a special character. (Archers and a commander of some sort with a pet Demigryph.

That trailer is epic!

The art of the Dwarf with the weird fire dragon thing looked badass. I really like the models and art, the rules are the let down. It's irritating, could've been really cool with some points and less of the weird rules.

I'm just glad Basilean players get non-crappy models now.

Mantic I love you and all but for the love of everything that's holy please fix your models.

I'm thinking it's only a matter of time until they decide to Sigmar 40K, so taking the timing thing into account I will be putting my Dark Angels up on eBay. I'm keeping my Ork Boyz as it looks like those will be usable with Mantic's Warpath game and of course my Empire, O&G, Dwarf, and Lizardman armies will beplayed under KoW rules, so no need to sell them off.

shooty sigmarites (from Adeptus Astartes on facebook)


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and a big battle image that people more familiar with fantasy may be able to spot new stuff in

So James Hewitt (ex-Mantic community manager) goes to work at GW designing rules, this happens, and now Mantic can expect a boost to KoW sales.

Well played, Ronnie. Well played.

Thats one badass trailer, dat artowkr doe...

Check the pic with the massive battle between khorne, with the bloodthirsters everywere, you can spot retributors with halberds and axes and hero looking guy with a big sword, also in the back are some BIG angel dudes, I must have them.


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HOLY a pet griffon thing HHHNNNNNNGGG

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:


shooty sigmarites (from Adeptus Astartes on facebook)

These Sigmarites are growing on me

 Mr Morden wrote:

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:


shooty sigmarites (from Adeptus Astartes on facebook)

These Sigmarites are growing on me

Well bloody resist it!!!

Any success for AOS = 40k getting the same treatment.

 Riquende wrote:
So James Hewitt (ex-Mantic community manager) goes to work at GW designing rules, this happens, and now Mantic can expect a boost to KoW sales.

Well played, Ronnie. Well played.

Bear Wizard casts shapeshift!

He turns into a mole!

It was super effective!

Seriously love the trailer. I had no inclination to play. Now I do.

Anyone notice the new terrain?

Hummm...I know I do not have to, but maybe I do want to re-base a few dozen models to see how they look on rounds...

 unmercifulconker wrote:
Thats one badass trailer, dat artowkr doe...

Check the pic with the massive battle between khorne, with the bloodthirsters everywere, you can spot retributors with halberds and axes and hero looking guy with a big sword, also in the back are some BIG angel dudes, I must have them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
HOLY a pet griffon thing HHHNNNNNNGGG

I think the angel dudes are just normal angel dudes, GW can be kinda bad at photoshopping perspective in these army shots. They seem to be armed with spears in lieu of hammers, tho.

I'm seeing a lot of people saying that this is more of a 'skirmish' game than Warhammer was, but the only recommendation for army sizes I've seen from GW says 'around a hundred miniatures per side', which doesn't seem that small (smaller than WFB, granted).

I just want that Kastle Khorneskull. But without the skulls.

Kastle Khorneskull?
Khorntress?

Whatever the hell it is, I need to own it now!

There are people who keep defending funny rules in this game, and criticizing people who dislike funny rules in this game.

Disliking funny rules in this game doesn't make you a humorless git. Maybe disliking funny rules in ALL games, but in one? No.

I play Munchkin. It has a good amount of funny rules. The basic game is $25 and requires no preparation. You can, but are in no way required to, buy non-random expansions which give you more cards, which also require no preparation. 3-5 people can play this game for $25 total, and the only setup time is shuffling two decks of cards. The game is perfect for silly rules. It's inexpensive; it's quick to pick up; it requires no time investment other than playing the game. On top of that, the game is actually complex, as many cards affect gameplay (some cards affect rules, others give you special rules, etc.). If your opponent isn't in the mood for silliness, your $25 investment and the time spent unwrapping the box is wasted until you find another opponent (or someone's mood shifts).

AoS is a poor choice, to me, for a game with silly rules. Being able to play the game requires a substantial investment of time and money (and even if you are using your old models, you had to buy, assemble, and paint those--even if it wasn't for this game). There's never been anything preventing the players who want to be a bit silly from being silly. If I wanted to yell "Waaagh!" when I charged my orcs, I could have. But the game itself didn't present that as a requirement for the person who wanted to buy, assemble, and paint a unit of orcs. It didn't tell the person who wanted to buy and paint and assemble Settra to plan on awkward games, since kneeling loses the game. The guy who carefully packs away dozens of painted models to transport them to the club but who doesn't feel like playing against the grunting, braying Beastman player might get to pack them all back up and go home.

Being a miniature wargame, AoS already imposes substantial burdens of cost and time on the player. Layering silly rules requirements on some models as well is a poor choice. If this was a free side-game in White Dwarf, awesome! Drop some silly rules on us! But even though this is a free ruleset, it is a core ruleset that still uses models you need to buy, paint and assemble.

Of course we can ignore or modify those rules. You've always been able to ignore or modify rules you didn't like----until you meet another player who has a different set of ignored or modified rules. Imposing a requirement of negotiating each game with each new player also seems burdensome for an expensive, time-consuming hobby.



*And for the person who thinks these rules are funny, I would point you to Wulfrik the Wanderer. His 'funny' rules:

Issue your opponent with a challenge of your own – you can be as mocking, rude or insulting as you dare; if your opponent rises to the bait and they change expression, even so much as crack a smile or a glimmer of shock, Wulfrik’s challenge is successful and you can re-roll failed hit rolls for any attacks he makes this phase against enemy Heroes.

So, by the rules, be as 'insulting as you dare'. The person who buys Wulfrik now has a special rule that he may not get to benefit from, or a special rule that may alienate his opponents, and it's official! How "funny"!

Requiring the player to actually issue a challenge might have been funny. Giving them a rules benefit for amusing OR shocking their opponent---not so much.

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

Well bloody resist it!!!

Any success for AOS = 40k getting the same treatment.

It's definitely not that simple.

 Bull0 wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

Well bloody resist it!!!

Any success for AOS = 40k getting the same treatment.

It's definitely not that simple.

Agreed.


40k hasn't been in a slump for years, if not decades. At worst you might get a rule in the Ork book requiring you to yell "WAAAAGH!" when Waaghing your Boys, but that would likely be the extent...

 Bull0 wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

Well bloody resist it!!!

Any success for AOS = 40k getting the same treatment.

It's definitely not that simple.

I think GW already has plans in the pipeline to Sigmar 40K. I also do not believe there will be anything to stop them from Sigmarring 40K short of a dismal failure for AoS.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Kastle Khorneskull?
Khorntress?

Whatever the hell it is, I need to own it now!

got a good look at the Krazy Khorne Kastle in the trailer. I'm not going to be able to "resist" that one if it is in fact a kit. Looks like it might be a new warhammer fortress style jobby with towers and walls rather than the 40k-type big moulded ones?

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 unmercifulconker wrote:
Thats one badass trailer, dat artowkr doe...

Check the pic with the massive battle between khorne, with the bloodthirsters everywere, you can spot retributors with halberds and axes and hero looking guy with a big sword, also in the back are some BIG angel dudes, I must have them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
HOLY a pet griffon thing HHHNNNNNNGGG

I think the angel dudes are just normal angel dudes, GW can be kinda bad at photoshopping perspective in these army shots. They seem to be armed with spears in lieu of hammers, tho.

Might be but I sure do love that alternate scheme, they look like the celestial marble colour armoured guys which is the force I wanna do and those prosecutors with spears look quite striking. Reminds of Archangel Imperius from Diablo and thats something that pleases me greatly.

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:


shooty sigmarites (from Adeptus Astartes on facebook)

These Sigmarites are growing on me

Well bloody resist it!!!

Any success for AOS = 40k getting the same treatment.

I would be perfectly happy with this if it had points and FOC - that seems to be the only thing wrong with it from my pov - I am not keen on 7th ed since we got stuck with the "magic phase" and other inovations.

 Xyxox wrote:

 Bull0 wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

Well bloody resist it!!!

Any success for AOS = 40k getting the same treatment.

It's definitely not that simple.

I think GW already has plans in the pipeline to Sigmar 40K. I also do not believe there will be anything to stop them from Sigmarring 40K short of a dismal failure for AoS.

The whole reason why they did this is that Fantasy has been in a huge slump.

40k, while declining a bit, isn't in such poor shape that a single kit from the Fantasy range outsells the entirety of their 40k range.

There are people who keep defending funny rules in this game, and criticizing people who dislike funny rules in this game.

Disliking funny rules in this game doesn't make you a humorless git. Maybe disliking funny rules in ALL games, but in one? No.

By the sem token - liking these elements does not make you a mindless 5year old child as other posters have been implying. Its a question of what you like and do not like - so people are or are not going to agree.

NEITHER is right - just different.

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

These Sigmarites are growing on me

Well bloody resist it!!!
Any success for AOS = 40k getting the same treatment.

I would be perfectly happy with this if it had points and FOC - that seems to be the only thing wrong with it from my pov - I am not keen on 7th ed since we got stuck with the "magic phase" and other inovations.

And since the rules are all in free PDFs now it will be easy for them to add that stuff later - I see the legacy warscrolls as a temporary measure to be honest to stop people from completely losing their gak over their old models becoming "unplayable" or whatever. I'm giving GW a lot of credit there though, it's just as likely the warscrolls will all go offline next week once the game ships and they'll tell us all to get fethed. Time will tell