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Mikhalia.. would it be too much trouble to get a picture of the new "cultists" from AoS next to a Cultist from Dark Vengance?

I am very curious about "scale creep" for "normal" humans

-P

 Commissar-Danno wrote:
I looks like there are more relases coming our way for the Sigmarines including archers, mini-gryphs and what looks like a captain on foot

Thanks for the link


Sod it, I'm actually genuinely interested and maybe a little excited now. I held off fantasy, this is likely to drag me into it.

Lack of points, unfair odds? Not an issue if a) you want a challenge and b) you talk to your opponent and decide if you do want limitations. Frankly if people can't handle either, they should pack up and go home.


Edit: I've noticed a fair few mentions of scale-creep. I reckon the Sigmarines are supposed to be larger and more 'godlike' in stature. Perhaps the chaos ones are similar in stature being the evil equivalent evil immortals? Just a thought.

Yeah, the upcoming Sigmarite models look pretty solid. The photos of the various armies in the video look outstanding.

I suppose there's a chance I might buy multi-model boxes, but I don't think they'll get me on the character model if they're the usual GW prices, since I'd be getting them just to model and, they'd be likely to sit on the shelf a pretty long time.

 Lt. Donomar StubbornBull wrote:
Just looking at the Night Goblins, would this be the correct interpretation of the new Fanatics rule?

According to the warscroll: "A unit of Night Goblin Fanatics can have any number of models". They move 2D6 and cause D3 damage with Rend -2. It also says that you can put them hidden inside a normal Night Goblin unit and when they come out they get a charge even if it isnt your charge phase. So they basically fight like normal troops and I presume remain locked in combat until everything they are fighting is dead??

So, if I have this right, a player can field a 10 strong unit of Night Goblins and field 1000 fanatics hidden within them?

The only thing you have wrong there is that they have to remain in combat. They could retreat like any other unit.

After playing two games against Night Goblins today, I can tell you Fanatics are deadly!

Just finished 80 wounds of Nurgley Chaos with mostly monsters and spawn vs Darkened Aelfs. Great game. My spawn almost cleared them out. They won by 4 crossbowmen and a sorceress.

 Bottle wrote:

 Lt. Donomar StubbornBull wrote:
Just looking at the Night Goblins, would this be the correct interpretation of the new Fanatics rule?

According to the warscroll: "A unit of Night Goblin Fanatics can have any number of models". They move 2D6 and cause D3 damage with Rend -2. It also says that you can put them hidden inside a normal Night Goblin unit and when they come out they get a charge even if it isnt your charge phase. So they basically fight like normal troops and I presume remain locked in combat until everything they are fighting is dead??

So, if I have this right, a player can field a 10 strong unit of Night Goblins and field 1000 fanatics hidden within them?

The only thing you have wrong there is that they have to remain in combat. They could retreat like any other unit.

After playing two games against Night Goblins today, I can tell you Fanatics are deadly!

Cheers for the clarification Bottle Retreating fanatics..who would have guessed LOL

So I can use dozens of fanatics in this way! I'll have to pick up a fair few boxes of them later so...might just win a tournament yet!

 mikhaila wrote:
Just finished 80 wounds of Nurgley Chaos with mostly monsters and spawn vs Darkened Aelfs. Great game. My spawn almost cleared them out. They won by 4 crossbowmen and a sorceress.

Is that how you're balancing it then, amount of wounds? And have you been using the 'shout __ for x benifit' and stuff or just ignoring them?

Chairman Aeon wrote:

People also forget, Citadel Miniatures took over Games Workshop. The fact we still refer to the miniatures as Citadel is a constant reminder of which is the dog and which is the tail.

You have that exactly backwards, as this quote from a WD of the time will confirm..

"Games Workshop and Bryan Ansell have got together to keep-alive Citadel Miniatures, a new miniatures company that will be manufacturing several ranges of figures. Ral Partha are already in production, but Citadel will also be producing own ranges, including the Fiend Factory figures, Fantasy Adventurers and Fantasy Specials. Citadel will not be limiting production to SF/F figures, but also new ranges of historical wargaming figures".[2]

 Lt. Donomar StubbornBull wrote:

 Bottle wrote:

 Lt. Donomar StubbornBull wrote:
Just looking at the Night Goblins, would this be the correct interpretation of the new Fanatics rule?

According to the warscroll: "A unit of Night Goblin Fanatics can have any number of models". They move 2D6 and cause D3 damage with Rend -2. It also says that you can put them hidden inside a normal Night Goblin unit and when they come out they get a charge even if it isnt your charge phase. So they basically fight like normal troops and I presume remain locked in combat until everything they are fighting is dead??

So, if I have this right, a player can field a 10 strong unit of Night Goblins and field 1000 fanatics hidden within them?

The only thing you have wrong there is that they have to remain in combat. They could retreat like any other unit.

After playing two games against Night Goblins today, I can tell you Fanatics are deadly!

Cheers for the clarification Bottle Retreating fanatics..who would have guessed LOL

So I can use dozens of fanatics in this way! I'll have to pick up a fair few boxes of them later so...might just win a tournament yet!

My opponent loved his fanatics so much he bought another box straight after the game :-)

Chairman Aeon wrote:


So, if you don't like the new rules I'm sorry for you. Felt the same when Rogue Trader became Warhammer 2nd Edition, I no longer played space elf pirates and now had to play Vulkan Sohei. But I'm actually interested in new rules and new fluff at the ground floor much like I was when Warmachine came out.

That's pretty much the exact opposite of what's happening here. The change to 2nd edition made 40k less of a fast and loose narrative driven game to a ruleset that was simpler and more tactical. It wasn't perfect, but it must have been the right move because it made GW what it is today. But this feels like a regression. First the game went back to its clunky magic and arm building system that was used in the 90s. Now they've gone back to "do whatever you want".

Also 2nd edition 40k had space elf pirates. They were just called Eldar Corsairs.

This game sounds fun but as your mention about hiding 1000 goblin fanatics in a 10man squad, how do you handle that? I would think hiding more fanatics than actual night goblins sounds far fetched. Its really the only thing holding me back. I used to play competitive MtG and those people suck. Talk about rules lawyering at every turn just to win. but where do you draw the balance..

Chopxsticks wrote:
This game sounds fun but as your mention about hiding 1000 goblin fanatics in a 10man squad, how do you handle that? I would think hiding more fanatics than actual night goblins sounds far fetched. Its really the only thing holding me back. I used to play competitive MtG and those people suck. Talk about rules lawyering at every turn just to win. but where do you draw the balance..

Obviously there is a range between something laid back and fun versus something balanced to make the game meaningful. I would argue AOS went way past that midpoint and now sits on the extreme end of random-for-fun.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Guy has a lantern.

He's lighting the way for us to find the rest of the rules! FOLLOW THE SIGNS!

Why would I want to find MORE of the crap that they're passing off as rules?

Chopxsticks wrote:
This game sounds fun but as your mention about hiding 1000 goblin fanatics in a 10man squad, how do you handle that? I would think hiding more fanatics than actual night goblins sounds far fetched. Its really the only thing holding me back. I used to play competitive MtG and those people suck. Talk about rules lawyering at every turn just to win. but where do you draw the balance..

The way you handle it is you wouldn't play them if they had 1000 fanatics. Fanatics are still declared during deployment even if their placement is hidden.

Think of this game like Inquisitor. You could make a warband of 100 Space Marines if you wanted to. People won't play you if you do however.

Wow, I can't belive that they actually tought that this lame game will revive fantasy. Is there an intelligent person left in nottingham ? This is a farce. The core rules are bland and uninteresting in themselves, and then, you have these childish gimmicks, and no way to balance forces against each other.

This is so bad, that I actually think i'll even stop playing 40k, and give my money to a company who actually treat me like an adylt, and not a mentally disabled 12 years old.

Well I've put in a preorder, Kirton games have the game for £60 plus free delivery for this weekend only which I think is worth it for the models.

Despite not liking the rules direction I still think the figures look pretty stunning. I guess warhammer will just become a painting and collecting project for me, which I'm cool with. Guess that kind of makes me the type of collector that gw want nowadays.

Just wish gw didn't make it so difficult to want to give them money

 streetsamurai wrote:
Wow, I can't belive that they actually tought that this lame game will revive fantasy. Is there an intelligent person left in nottingham ? This is a farce. The core rules are bland and uninteresting in themselves, and then, you have these childish gimmicks, and no way to balance forces against each other.

This is so bad, that I actually think i'll even stop playing 40k, and give my money to a company who actually treat me like an adylt, and not a mentally disabled 12 years old.

Well there are, the problem being they all work for the other companies in the area.

My question is, would anyone pay money for these rules if they were typically dressed up with recycled fluff in a setting totally not lifted from The Neverending Story (just a single mote of light, and DREAAAAM)? Like, would you have paid $85 to play this?

I'd be highly suspect of the sensibilities of someone saying yes.

Companies only give away stuff for free... as either a show of good faith to build a following, a la Corvus Belli, or they realize it's not good enough to actually charge for, a la GW. Nothing, absolutely nothing, from their past performance even hints at this being a showing of good faith. They're trying to desperately scrabble together something into a Unique IP™ and then hopefully rekindle the setting.

However, instead of going the intelligent route of a structurally sound base game and allowing their players to go off in random directions, they just crapped the bed instead. The only redeeming factor is it's free and that's it.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Guy has a lantern.

He's lighting the way for us to find the rest of the rules! FOLLOW THE SIGNS!

Or to the exits. In case of a game breaking emergency, please follow the sigmarine with the lantern in an orderly fashion out of the GW HHHobby.

 jojo_monkey_boy wrote:
It seems like there's a divide between those people feel it's been dumbed down and those who like that it's simplified.

To those of you who like that it's been simplified, were you already playing WFB? How long had you been playing it? If you had been playing it, why were you playing something you found too complex?

I like the move to more simplified rules - and understand the need for GW to do so instead of focusing on a shrinking customer base.
I have collected and played WHF and 40K since 1992 (although not that many matches per year). However, with a whole bookshelf full of GW publications and many massive armies in both systems I find it hard to keep up with the ever changing rules - which makes every battle becoming a pain in tedious army building and everything but fluent gameplay.

Truth is, even though (or because of?) I spend a few thousand dollars a year on GW stuff I find it harder and harder to find time/inspiration to actually play the game(s).
When I do play it is often heavily themed games (which are impossible to balance properly due to very different conditions for the forces in question).

I was (and still am) very upset when GW nuked the Old World, do not like the Sigmarines or the High Fantasy/Manga/Manwa/WOW/MMO setting at all (I would have preferred a more Willow/LoTR/Game of Thrones setting) and hate the fact that they released obviously untested Core rules (or atleast rules containing stupid last minute changes). The Chaos release is OK but suffer from Catachan-ism (everybody being bodybuilders).

If only GW had asked gamers outside their company to sign a NDA and help out with the rules (which show some signs of brilliance - but is utterly ruined by unclarity and silly and easily found mistakes) + had given the Warscrolls some sort of points system (which, as with all other similar games, simply cannot be balanced - but would still be better than no points at all) + had spoken to the existing customer base I do think they would have gotten a much better launch.

This said, I find the simplified and very free skirmish based ruleset is really interesting.
Now I can create Warscrolls for Witch Elf Chariots and similar cool stuff, without shifting the balance (as there is none in the first place)...

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Does anyone know who wrote the novella? The website doesn't mention an author at all, as if it sprang fully-formed from he loins of the marketing department...*

I must admit I loooooove the "good" forces invading the "evil" world for a change. If they can draw out a few editions worth of "...but even those mighty feats will not stop the inevitable triumph of Good", I'll buy it. Down with the grimdark and up with the cheerlight, I say.



*Which might make it a better read than Nathan Long's Notrek and Fauxlix books.

Alan Smithee.

Homebrew potential is pretty awesome, that's for sure.

Well....the core rules arent completely terrible and from what I've read so far the warscroll special rules may add a little depth to what I Initially perceived as an over simplification. I've always prefered round bases and desired a skirmish game in warhammer fantasy so this will be fun to cruise through with my buddy as a side project.

But that's just it. It will really be more of a vessel to paint and play with my few fantasy models than it will be a game that our whole group actively engages in. Without points or structure it is impossible for me to understand how Warhammer: Assault on Sanity can be anything else.

Im coming to the conclusion that it will be a fun way to play with my fantasy collection for a while, but ultimately the reboot will peeter out as people get tired of self policing.

I was also going to take a dig at the system after I read the summon 10 zombies with a 4 on 2d6 rule until I remembered that there isn't anything stopping you from just deploying as many as you like from the get go.

 streetsamurai wrote:
Wow, I can't belive that they actually tought that this lame game will revive fantasy. Is there an intelligent person left in nottingham ? This is a farce. The core rules are bland and uninteresting in themselves, and then, you have these childish gimmicks, and no way to balance forces against each other.

This is so bad, that I actually think i'll even stop playing 40k, and give my money to a company who actually treat me like an adylt, and not a mentally disabled 12 years old.

Most adults act like adults and don't throw their toys out of the pram because something changes ...oh and they don't refer to themselves or others as " mentally disabled 12 year olds " .

So tha game has changed and gone in a direction you don't like then stop playing it simple ! . Gw don't owe you anything . So for all means give your money to another plastic toy soldier making company so you can feal more adult .

Well I strolled into the local GW which was very busy, and managed to pick up the last copy of WD with the mini in store

(amusingly you could have as many copies of the magazine only for free as many folk had apparently been buying units worth of the 'free' minis..... probably the right move if they are released separately)

it's a really nice bit of work with only a small patch at the right heel showing the limitation of HIPs moulding, but it is jolly big compared to 'normal' stuff... hopefully this will be limited to the Sigmarites as demigod metal golems and not spill over onto any new stuff for the other realms

 CURNOW wrote:
Most adults act like adults and don't throw their toys out of the pram because something changes

Yeah, adults only do that when a special rule tells them to.

Hey, in Age of Sigmar, if you lose the game do you get a chance to "re-do" the last turn of the game if you scream, cry, and stomp your feet until your opponent is visibly embarrassed by you?

 CURNOW wrote:

 streetsamurai wrote:
Wow, I can't belive that they actually tought that this lame game will revive fantasy. Is there an intelligent person left in nottingham ? This is a farce. The core rules are bland and uninteresting in themselves, and then, you have these childish gimmicks, and no way to balance forces against each other.

This is so bad, that I actually think i'll even stop playing 40k, and give my money to a company who actually treat me like an adylt, and not a mentally disabled 12 years old.

Most adults act like adults and don't throw their toys out of the pram because something changes ...oh and they don't refer to themselves or others as " mentally disabled 12 year olds " .

So tha game has changed and gone in a direction you don't like then stop playing it simple ! . Gw don't owe you anything . So for all means give your money to another plastic toy soldier making company so you can feal more adult .

Exalted. Having a mental disability doesn't necessarily make you stupid.

 Sidstyler wrote:

 CURNOW wrote:
Most adults act like adults and don't throw their toys out of the pram because something changes

Yeah, adults only do that when a special rule tells them to.

Hey, in Age of Sigmar, if you lose the game do you get a chance to "re-do" the last turn of the game if you scream, cry, and stomp your feet until your opponent is visibly embarrassed by you?

Dignity is for losers brah!

Is there an intelligent person left in nottingham ?

Yes. He owns Mantic games and he can't believe his good fortune.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 TheKbob wrote:
My question is, would anyone pay money for these rules if they were typically dressed up with recycled fluff in a setting totally not lifted from The Neverending Story (just a single mote of light, and DREAAAAM)? Like, would you have paid $85 to play this?

I'd be highly suspect of the sensibilities of someone saying yes.

Companies only give away stuff for free... as either a show of good faith to build a following, a la Corvus Belli, or they realize it's not good enough to actually charge for, a la GW. Nothing, absolutely nothing, from their past performance even hints at this being a showing of good faith. They're trying to desperately scrabble together something into a Unique IP™ and then hopefully rekindle the setting.

However, instead of going the intelligent route of a structurally sound base game and allowing their players to go off in random directions, they just crapped the bed instead. The only redeeming factor is it's free and that's it.

That is a damn good question, one which I'll ask to everyone.

If these rules weren't free, and you still had the preview, would you buy them?

I have from being sad about the destruction of my favourite game, actually become generally interested in age of sigmar. They seem to have invested a lot in the minis and my hopes are that they will introduce some point system (the current pdfs only serving for the old armies, so that we can continue using them somewhat even though they seem to be intended to be phased out later. . My hopes is that they will release a point system later and more complicated rules that will make this into a great war-game. Because it has the potential and this seems to be just the introduction for players(that is atleast my hope).