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 Moopy wrote:
They also look like WM- Cygnar colors.

Saying WM isn't balanced is a pretty misguided statement. At best.

Well, Warmachine is unbalance But all parts of it are unbalanced, and leads to everyone having powerful combinations.

The key word for warmachine isn't balance or unbalance. Warmachine WORKS.

They have a system where people can play balanced games. Not with all models, some are very 'meh' compared to other models. I see that in sales all the time. No one, no one at all, buys certain models, and can sit for a couple of years. But each faction has playable armies and competitive armies. Warmachine works as a game and competitive system.

I think it comes down to the fact that GW could make an Awesome faction that already had president in fluff and just gave us spiritwarrior men things that just blinked into existence because it might get SM players into AoS.

I thought that moustache rule was meant to be on the figures not the person playing but still.

migooo wrote:

 Bull0 wrote:
Putting rules about having mustaches and beards in was insensitive, I doubt anyone dosagrees with that, and it can probably be left there for the sake of sanity

What?

Is this sarcasm? I can't tell anymore.

40k will probably be Sigmarized

No, I wasn't being sarcastic. I did manage to spell disagrees with an O, though. Silly phone.

I think getting into "let's count the non-sexualised female models available", "let's define sexualization", "let's make broad statements about misogyny" etc is all a bit out of place for a wargame news forum.

 Yodhrin wrote:

 mikhaila wrote:

 kendoka wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
A few weeks ago, Yakface and Legoburner were getting stick for trying to make the rules of Maelstrom's edge as balanced and as tactically challenging as possible.
A few weeks later, GW dump this ruleset on people, and for some people, its sunshine and rainbows.
It's a funny old world.

Que?
Personally I cannot find much of "sunshine and rainbows" within this 200+ thread (or the similar one at Warseer) dominated by "tar-and-feathers" posts.

Different games. Different outlooks on games.

Warmachine isn't balanced. Everything is "broken" by warhammer standards. Everything is a special little snowflake with superpowers. And yet the game works, is playable, has tournaments, tiered lists, balanced play. Just different. I think AOS has some of that. Lots of units have new little abilities. I can't keep them straight, keep forgetting them all Everything unbalanced makes balance? Dunno. Doesn't compute for me mathematically, and I'm a math person.

Flames of War isn't balanced. The best scenarios build in unbalance to mimic one side advancing, or moving towards objectives, the other defending. Germans have better tanks, the US has much cheaper but more plentiful infantry. Russians have crap but so cheap it doesn't matter. But the game is balanced.

Play enough games, it's easier to find the balance maybe.

Sorry Mik, but there's a difference between intentional asymmetrical balance of the sort you refer to in FoW, and AoS' take what you like, in as big a quantity as you like, FIGHT! "system". And Warmahordes, even though not to my tastes, at least attempts to impose order on proceedings with the points system, plus it has defined factions.

A lot of folk, myself included, aren't down on AoS because it's a fast-paced skirmish game, we're down on it because it takes GW's usual "gentlemen's agreements > actual rules" attitude to a ridiculous, self-parodying extreme, and because instead of using the release of Warscrolls for existing factions and models as a way to build some goodwill it seems very much like they were meant as an intentional "WHY SOO SHERIUSH?" trolling of fans who've supported this company for years even decades.

If this was "Warmahordes Fantasy Battle" I'd be all over it, but as it stands GW are trying to sell people an incomplete ruleset and it's not on IMO.

well, yes,,,,and I sort of know this. I never said the balance/unbalance of FOW was the same as AOS. In fact, rather than just make a quick statement, i tried to explain what kind of imbalance was there. But while on the subject of FOW, I've also fought quite a few big battles where we did bring all our models and fought for hours and had fun. FOW is quite a versitile system that can be used for both competitive tournament, small skirmish and narrative. The most carnage i ever saw in any game was the Kursk Tank battle we did. Your army was literally "every tank you own". About a dozen players. At one point we just removed 200 dead tanks and declared the whol center board to have cover from wrecks and smoke. Torched about 500 tanks between both sides and ended in a parking lot stalemate......sort of like it did historically

I just get tired of people shouting "balance!" as if it was some mystical grail to quest for. There are different types of balance, for different types of games. And yes, AOS has little of that currently, i don't argue that. In fact I've got hours of work into a system to use for tournaments at my shop. Work I don't feel I should have had to do. But then, I have to do a lot of crap in my business I don't think I should have to do.

But I think as has come up before, if you are taking the jokes in the Warscrolls as some sort of insult or trolling of the players, you're really taking it to personally. I printed out all the material and put it in binders Friday night and had 20 people reading through them and having a great time. No one was angry, no one took it as some personal insult. Some of them are mad and hate AOS, some can't wait to play and they came in saturday to get games in. But not one person saw it as some insult.

 streamdragon wrote:

NoggintheNog wrote:
As I've said before, I think the warscrolls for old units are pretty much a troll of the old player base and nothing much at all to do with age of sigmar other than giving the impression the £1,000's some have sunk into the models wasn't all just thrown by the wayside.

The warscrolls for existing units is an issue much like the issue of square vs round bases. It's something GW knew they couldn't actually solve so they just said "frell it" and moved on.

I mean, I can't imagine the reaction to AoS would be this positive if they'd just nuked all their old models, can you? AoS would be close to 100% dead in the water if they DIDN'T release rules for the older models. As it is it was no labor of love, it was a necessity and GW knows it.

Absolutely correct sir.

Without the warscrolls for old models, AoS would be a 125.00 kiddies game in a market that would support only a 60.00 game of that type, and maybe a couple of sales to 40k players for bits.

When i read the original rules, saw the price, and didn't know about warscrolls, I had much anger. Mostly of the "how can you be so FETHING stupid" type. But the warscrolls are actually 99% of the game.

I really want a scope of how this will do so go vote;
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/655009.page

RoninXiC wrote:
It will take you dozends of games to figure out a truely balanced game.
And if you change any unit, you will probably arrive at a new imbalanced situation.

Naw, even with imperfect systems like "toss out 80 wounds of models" I've had some good games. Not to say someone who works at it a bit can't break that limitation and min/max the crap out of it, of course they can. But if using a simplistic equation like that for army building, people shouldn't be trying so hard to break it. A few games and we see how things go, and are making a better system. A few weeks and we'll have an imperfect point based system. Which is pretty much all GW ever had

"80 wounds"
is uber basic and will break apart quite soon. It will not keep the balance up even between friends.

Its better than "play whatever you want" true true.

Do female dwarves have beards in the Warhammer line?
Having reread the rules i realize the sudden death is not the universal equalizer I thought it was but I am still pondering picking up the set. The models look great and my 6 year old should actually be able to grasp the basic rules and so we could play. There are few who will find that a selling point, but I am convinced that something else is coming that will provide the depth most people are looking for.
At the moment GW is telling the God's Honest Truth to Timmies mom when she comes into the store and is told they can use as much or as little as her kids want. No army books, no rule books, nothing. Just buy this box and go. a couple months from now there will likely be more to choose from, but that's no different than lots of board games with multiple, optional expansions. For the serious player they won't be optional, but for Timmies mom, she can walk out the door box in hand and Know that she has got all she needs.
As a parent I see this no worse than Lego. The deluxe castle should be more than enough to keep the kids busy for months, if not years. If I choose to indulge in excessive capatilism parenting and buy more Lego so my kid has as much as the neighbours, that's my issue, not Lego's. The same goes for this kit.
Again, this lens is not the one that long time gamers will always share, but it's my world view at the moment.

 Hulksmash wrote:

 Melissia wrote:


So how does this work with low-quality spam units, like goblins, skink, or skaven, compared to high-quality models like Bret Knights or WoCs?

Well to start Bret Knights and WoC's are 2 wounds instead of 1 so you get twice as many skaven/skink/goblins.

In general I think people are underestimating the combat phase. Just selecting the right order for your combats is going to be huge. It's something I noticed because of Wrath of Kings but combat is incredibly interesting now. Also baiting is going to be a huge part of this.

Honestly if it wasn't for a lack of army building mechanism this game would be very good (not perfect by any means).

It is definitely huge. I got charged by two blocks of Executioners. Brutal models in combat, but a bit fragile. My opponent had to choose which combat to go first with. Luckily my Shaggoth only took 4 wounds. Should have wiped him off the table. Then I ignored two other combats and selected my bestigors to beat up on the executioners who hadn't swung on the yet, killing half of them. And how nice of them, they have a banner! Bestigors love defiling banners and get a bonus to hit against units that have them. Many dead Daelfs.

Choices, decisions. They make the game better.

This reboot was a great opportunity to introduce some diversity into the setting. Especially with single-pose kits where you don't have to worry about parts being compatible with eachother.

Not that it'd stop GW's writing from being awful and ridiculous, but I'd give them props if they started forging narratives that aren't about the glorious conquests of mighty white men. I'm sure part of the fanbase would take that very poorly, but that's all the more reason to do it.

 ImAGeek wrote:
Apparantly FW will be supporting AoS with some releases but no idea what's coming yet.

I wouldn't be surprised by multiple pauldrons ,heads, etc. to support the sigmarine chapters.

Something being silly, or not silly, does not make it inherently better. Or more inherently WHFB. Or any less of either.

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:

Relapse wrote:
I was just told the Mantic website was crashing a lot because of all the traffic happening on it. I know I was having trouble getting in to see stuff.
Any comfirmations?

Talked to Ronnie, and he really has been blown away. They're having to order more of the books because preorders sky-rocketed in the last week. He was sincere, and caught off guard.

Yeah, think the first he heard of it was when i sent him a facebook message, he truly didn't know what was up, and everyone in the thread assumed he did

People running game companies don't have time, or care, to keep track of what the rest of the world is doing. And none of us ever expected a move like this.

Mantic should ride this opportunity as long as they can.

 Melissia wrote:
Something being silly, or not silly, does not make it inherently better. Or more inherently WHFB. Or any less of either.

If the creators of WFB say it i supposed to be silly, then sillier *is* better.

As a consumer your choice is to accept it, or do something else.

But arguing against the creator vision is foolish.

 mikhaila wrote:

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:

Relapse wrote:
I was just told the Mantic website was crashing a lot because of all the traffic happening on it. I know I was having trouble getting in to see stuff.
Any comfirmations?

Talked to Ronnie, and he really has been blown away. They're having to order more of the books because preorders sky-rocketed in the last week. He was sincere, and caught off guard.

Yeah, think the first he heard of it was when i sent him a facebook message, he truly didn't know what was up, and everyone in the thread assumed he did

People running game companies don't have time, or care, to keep track of what the rest of the world is doing. And none of us ever expected a move like this.

Mantic should ride this opportunity as long as they can.

I would bet there is a strategy meeting at Mantic first thing tomorrow morning because a massive opportunity has just been dumped in their laps and they can build more goodwill out of this to produce future sales than anything I could have ever imagined.

Also, I'm sure some people are tasked with watching what the competition does, but I would assume paying attention to rumors would be out. You cannot plan any for of business strategy or tactics based upon the rumors about what your competition might be doing. You can only react to what they actually do.

There's already been posts and such from Mantic. As far as I've seen, they are beginning to take advantage.

 pretre wrote:
There's already been posts and such from Mantic. As far as I've seen, they are beginning to take advantage.

Links please?

To bad mantic figures suck.

migooo wrote:
To bad mantic figures suck.

So use your existing GW figs using KOW rules.

 pretre wrote:

migooo wrote:
To bad mantic figures suck.

So use your existing GW figs using KOW rules.

Ill check the rules out maybe I can get someone to try them out with.

 MadCowCrazy wrote:

 pretre wrote:
There's already been posts and such from Mantic. As far as I've seen, they are beginning to take advantage.

Links please?

Mantic Games facebook or their blog

http://manticblog.com/2015/07/03/try-kings-of-war-for-free/

From the 10th July you'll be able to download the core 2nd Edition Kings of War rules and force lists and try them out for free.

Find out more about the free rules, release date and how you can win a free signed copy of the new rulebook by going to the blog right now!

Ronnie Renton's Facebook:

So, all of a sudden the interest in Kings of War has gone through the roof.

I mean, I know the rules are better than ever. We have cool battle photos, more great art, and the minis look better than ever. But...
...none of that explains the huge increase in interest in the last few days.
Why does everyone suddenly want to play our mass battle fantasy game.

Has something changed?

I love the models, they are undeniably beautiful, but I can certainly see why people are pissed.

My 250 model goblin army looks like it has no place in this new version of the game!

Ronnie Renton's Facebook:

So, all of a sudden the interest in Kings of War has gone through the roof.

I mean, I know the rules are better than ever. We have cool battle photos, more great art, and the minis look better than ever. But...
...none of that explains the huge increase in interest in the last few days.
Why does everyone suddenly want to play our mass battle fantasy game.

Has something changed?

LoL

I think know what kit he would like to paint up next.

http://www.manticgames.com/mantic-shop/kings-of-war/orcs/product/trolls-3-figures.html

Just to state what should be obvious, the drop of the PDF for free rules for KoW2 has been planned by Mantic literally for many many months. That it drops on July 10 is a coincidence and has nothing to do with GW dropping a piece of gak rules set for their WHFB replacement.

Those rules are NOT Mantic taking advantage of GWs misfortune.

 Xyxox wrote:
Just to state what should be obvious, the drop of the PDF for free rules for KoW2 has been planned by Mantic literally for many many months. That it drops on July 10 is a coincidence and has nothing to do with GW dropping a piece of gak rules set for their WHFB replacement.

Those rules are NOT Mantic taking advantage of GWs misfortune.

No, but it is clear that they realize what's going on and are not sad about the sudden boost in interest/sales.

 pretre wrote:

migooo wrote:
To bad mantic figures suck.

So use your existing GW figs using KOW rules.

And the KoW rules are also free and reportedly the next edition (coming soon) is also free.
So no need to buy anything esp. if you've got the models/armies you already want to play with.

EDIT: Looks like folks say coming soon = July 10th for KoW 2nd ed.

 pretre wrote:

 Xyxox wrote:
Just to state what should be obvious, the drop of the PDF for free rules for KoW2 has been planned by Mantic literally for many many months. That it drops on July 10 is a coincidence and has nothing to do with GW dropping a piece of gak rules set for their WHFB replacement.

Those rules are NOT Mantic taking advantage of GWs misfortune.

No, but it is clear that they realize what's going on and are not sad about the sudden boost in interest/sales.

Right. At this point the increased sales of the rule books with the fluff and an increase in other sales for the game are simply fate expressing itself on the situation. As of right now, Mantic has done nothing to attempt to take advantage of the situation, something I suspect will change in the coming days. Looking at their plans for releases in support of the v2 rules, they may need to do nothing at all and simply carry on with their plans as they currently stand because their stuff should be in direct competition with future releases by GW in support of AoS. New models are coming out to support the KoWv2 rules set and they should be high quality for cheaper prices than you get from GW.

 mikhaila wrote:


Honestly if it wasn't for a lack of army building mechanism this game would be very good (not perfect by any means).

 Bull0 wrote:
Putting rules about having mustaches and beards in was insensitive, I doubt anyone dosagrees with that, and it can probably be left there for the sake of sanity

My wife just wore a GARISH, giant stage mustache prop to play this rule... and our friends and I had a blast during the game.

People are REALLY over-thinking this game.

It isn't balanced, nor smart... its silly, and can be enjoyed when treated as the novelty it is. I don't suspect that novelty will last long, but there is plenty of fun to be had.