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2015/07/08 03:25:50
Subject: Age of Sigmar - Campaign/Fluff Book, Stormcast Archers, Unmounted Celestan Incoming
H.B.M.C. wrote: Feth that Kyoto, you're missing the big 'un in the room:
FOURTY DOLLAR 'DICE SHAKERS'!!!
I mean WTF?
The big one is actually the two new paints (Retributor Armour and Liberator Gold) that are $5.75 versus $4.25 for the current paints.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/07/08 03:47:40
'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'
- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
2015/07/08 03:52:05
Subject: Age of Sigmar - Campaign/Fluff Book, Stormcast Archers, Unmounted Celestan Incoming
Just because you like an edition better doesn't make it philosophically different. I have no idea how you imagine 3e or 5e as balanced. I tend to tend to think of 5e as glory days of the Grey Knights.
I actually like 7th more than any previous 40K edition I played frequently from 3rd-6th, in spite of its glaring flaws. My point was exactly that they were "philosophically different" - 2nd Ed 40K was a "miniatures first" game; a more modest scale, a focus on characters and cool out-there units, lots of pchew-pchew special psyker shenanigans and virus bombs. 3rd marked a distinct shift in priorities; streamlined rules(until they had one of their periodic personality-shifts halfway through the edition), a push for organised play, numerically larger armies with a bigger focus on "core" units like Tac Marines over big shiny fancy character models. They buggered it up of course, too much additional material and a few fun but poorly balanced codices caused issues. 4th Ed though was hardly a change in direction, indeed they doubled-down; even more focus on rules suitable for organised play, toning down(some would say to the point of making them flavourless) the more out-there factions like CSM. 5th seemed very much like an attempt to bring back some of the flavour without going totally overboard, until they threw that out the window again halfway through.
There's other products like Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay, Advanced Heroquest, Space Hulk, Hours Heresy (the box set without minis) and at one point Talisman, too. There are plenty of Specialist games you can point to. But other than Epic, all of these were minor endeavors that GW didn't pursue, I believe because they don't follow GW's vision of miniatures first. Even Epic, which was popular was abandoned.
An RPG & boxed/board games? Come on, at least try and address the point being made: lots of those "minor endeavours" were pet-projects of the same people writing the rules for the main games, and even if they were neglected and eventually abandoned by management they remained a big part of GW for over a decade.
Anyways, for a very long time, they've focused on building cool minis and then finding a way to insert it onto a game. Which is just fine with me. I would hate a GW that didn't make a model because it was disruptive to the game ecosystem.
They've always focused on that, but it's monstrously disingenuous to use that fact as the basis to claim the company has always been philosophically opposed to writing solid rules as well; just because you start with the model and then try and fit it into the game doesn't mean you have to have no regard for how it fits in and whether the way you're fitting it in is going to negatively affect the stability of the whole system. GW used to view the rules and the models as a symbiosis; the quality of one fed into the success of the other, it's only in the last few years that the company have institutionally abandoned any attempt to support the rules side of the hobby, and it's not been driven by some high-minded philosophical commitment to producing "the finest miniatures in the world" or whatever, it's due to piss-poor corporate management pushing away most of their good games developers, promoting people based on attitude not ability, and a focus on producing maximum short-term profit with minimum possible effort and expenditure with utter disregard for long-term viability.
Kirby & Co don't give a gak if AoS become a 30 year industry-defining product like WHFB, or even if it ends up as a renowned fan favourite like Epic, BFG, or Mordheim, all they care about is whether or not it will act as a cheap platform for them to prop up the financials for just a couple more years while they keep extracting the value out of the company in dividends.
"Your society's broken, so who should we blame? Should we blame the rich, powerful people who caused it? No, lets blame the people with no power and no money and those immigrants who don't even have the vote. Yea, it must be their fething fault." - Iain M Banks
-----
"The language of modern British politics is meant to sound benign. But words do not mean what they seem to mean. 'Reform' actually means 'cut' or 'end'. 'Flexibility' really means 'exploit'. 'Prudence' really means 'don't invest'. And 'efficient'? That means whatever you want it to mean, usually 'cut'. All really mean 'keep wages low for the masses, taxes low for the rich, profits high for the corporations, and accept the decline in public services and amenities this will cause'." - Robin McAlpine from Common Weal
Those are extra big dice, right? Upscaled to match the new minis right? They're not standard sized dice and thats not a tiny dice shaker for $40us, right?
2015/07/08 05:43:40
Subject: Age of Sigmar - Campaign/Fluff Book, Stormcast Archers, Unmounted Celestan Incoming
Of course the symbols are on the ones. That's the only proper way to play GW games. If you're rolling higher numbers than you're a complete WAAC loser! Winning is rude.
Remember kids the only way to win at GW games is to lose.
2015/07/08 06:43:33
Subject: Age of Sigmar - Campaign/Fluff Book, Stormcast Archers, Unmounted Celestan Incoming
H.B.M.C. wrote: I do want Khorne dice though... if the 6 was the Khorne symbol that is.
These dice show the numbers 2 to 6, with the Khorne-symbol being the 8, obviously.
So you CAN roll a possible 13 on two dice to auto-win with Skaven in AoS!!!!
This will make GW -millions-!
"Wheels within wheels, in a spiral array, a pattern so grand and complex.
Time after time we lose sight of the way, our causes can't see their effects."
2015/07/08 07:00:11
Subject: Re:Age of Sigmar 4th July WD leak and new names pg 1
Very interesting post by Tuomas Pirinen, former GW designer (Mordheim and many other things), now video game designer:
Tuomas Pirinen, Brutal Deluxe Game Design
WARHAMMER AGE OF SIGMAR -PRODUCT DECONSTRUCTION
OK, there is no way I can skip this, I've been buried with requests to write what I think about the new Warhammer: Age of Sigmar rules. Better get on with it then.
Disclaimer: all the thoughts and opinions here are my own, and do not reflect the official line of Games Workshop in any way, shape or form. I've not worked for GW in over a decade. I reserve the right to be completely wrong about this.
OVERVIEW AND PRODUCT STRATEGY
I've spent a fair amount of time reading the rules for Warhammer: the Age of Sigmar, and the associated War Scrolls, and I've gone through the miniatures range and the background.
Key takeaways: Free, much streamlined rules with visually stunning (if 40K-ish) models that are very expensive speaks to me of a strategy: with these rules, many more new people can try the game and grasp the rules rapidly. Some of those will like the game, and a portion will be able to afford the cost associated with it, and without points limits on the armies, they can spend as little or as much as they wish on the game.
I see that the new miniature range will attract many collectors, and perhaps a fewer gamers -possibly a valid approach, business-wise.
All in all this targets a very particular kind of consumer: Wealthy, social, and focused on collectability of very high-quality designs -very much the Apple tactic. It is a huge gamble to see if this is new direction works. It may also be that a completely new world will allow GW to target a new breed of gamers not exposed to Warhammer before.
To understand the shift in the game it is important to see that many things are in play here that your average hobbyist does not need to care about: the shelf space in the shops (Warhammer always took massive amount of space), the spiralling cost associated with making a physical product, the intense competition from both physical and digital games and the rise of 3D printing in the near future.
MINIATURES
When it comes to miniature sculpting, the rigid unit hierarchy of classic Warhammer limits them, which was always problem when compared to 40K. Thus I am not surprised to see the round bases and much larger models with far more articulation. They are eye-catching and have been made with collectability in mind. They also are so complex that the immediate danger of 3D printing will have been averted at least for a while.
Overall, many of the miniatures are stunningly well made, and I doubt another company can match the sheer intricate detail of these anytime soon. Whatever people like the designs themselves is another matter, but they do that that modern western design vibe. As always, a matter of taste.
THE RULES
The rules themselves have some very nifty ideas, and I am happy that some of the show real creativity and opportunities for interesting situations during game. I do like some of the risk/reward elements such as the charging rules. Some I do not understand, like gaining a major bonus if you won your previous match whenever that may have been. This sets off the game skewered towards one side.
In general, the new rules are streamlined, short, easy-to-absorb and will lead into quite straightforward games. Without tactical maneuvering and flank/back bonuses, the games will most likely become immense killing grounds in the middle, with one side completely wiped out, and the result having a lot to do with luck. I also see some worrying opportunities for cheating, especially with customizing models for extra reach. But I honestly also see a lot of opportunity for fun and tense moments too, in a casual gaming sort of way.
And those dreaded dancing rules... I am personally not a designer that likes to enforce the players to dance, sing or shout during a game: many gamers are introverted, or have disabilities or health conditions that do not allow them to perform a cha-cha-cha moves in the middle of the game. I see the wish to make Warhammer more social, but I would not have gone this way myself: rather, I would have given the players other rewards than game bonuses for awkward behavior.
All in all, the rules are simplified, streamlined, and clearly aimed at getting as many new people as possible to try out the rules.
THE WARHAMMER WORLD
I am of course sad to see Warhammer world go, as it was a labor of love for so many people for so many years, including me. It is one of the most iconic and enduring fantasy worlds ever created. But I do see some of the logic: the Warhammer world was complete, and a low-fantasy world. In order to bring more fantastical creatures and new armies (without making it impossible to fit all the new models into the Warhammer shops) a clean slate was the easy way forward. Personally hard for me to see, but if the gamble pays off it might well be worth it for GW.
I also hazard a guess that there will be a more advanced ruleset for more tactical and strategic players who have outgrown the 4-page rules. I especially think we will see supplements for magic. Without any further rules development, I am not sure about the longevity of the game. Easy-to-pick-up, difficult-to-master is the Holy Grail of the game design, and I am not quite sure these rules are there yet. To keep customers returning, games need long-term engagement, and that requires more depth to delve into. I think we will see this in the coming months.
CLOSING THOUGHTS
As always, I wish GW and its staff the greatest of success -the livelihood of many families depends on It. Many fantastically talented people work at the Studio and beyond whom I respect more than words can say. I see Age of Sigmar as a huge gamble, and it will be interesting to see if it pays off. I also feel that it may have been a gamble they had to take in one form or another. We might see a smaller playerbase, but very lucrative one to emerge from these rules and miniatures.
Lastly, I want to say this. If you enjoy the new rules and models, hold your head up high: every gamer has the right to like whatever they damn well please. But respect the old guard, they built the hobby into what it is today.
If you don't like the rules, I absolutely get it. Please don't take it out on the people that do like them. As gamers we've never had as much choice and quality to choose from. when it comes to our gaming. Thoughtful critique and discussion wins over bitterness every time.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/07/08 07:50:24
2015/07/08 08:02:40
Subject: Age of Sigmar - Campaign/Fluff Book, Stormcast Archers, Unmounted Celestan Incoming
Torga_DW wrote: Those are extra big dice, right? Upscaled to match the new minis right? They're not standard sized dice and thats not a tiny dice shaker for $40us, right?
You forget that it's a world's finest collectable dice shaker. For rolling more than 5 dice at a time, you are supposed to buy multiple fine collectable shakers. Although I anticipate that the next version of AoS will include a rule to 'simply put dice on the table any way you want'
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/07/08 08:15:12
2015/07/08 08:22:39
Subject: Age of Sigmar - Campaign/Fluff Book, Stormcast Archers, Unmounted Celestan Incoming
Renegades - 
Legion: Dark Angels 
