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Did WHFB see more story progression / development than 40k before AoS?

I always maintain that anything can happen in a story and done well that it seems more than the arbitrary whim of its creator(s). So there's no reason the Old World can't continue to exist in the current fluff. Pocket alternate dimension? Time hole, etc.

Nothing really happend in Fantasy land for like 25 years. At least nothing that didnt get immediately removed from the fluf ... All the global campagne (which couldve had a BIG impact) were ignored afterwards.

Why does something have to happen to progress the storyline?
I always thought the idea was to be given the setting and WE made the stories.

Mork wrote:Like Mik said, there's a handful of people who are -frequently- bashing on AoS in this thread, upping the noise ratio quite a bit. I've seen far more of that than anyone pissing in the cornflakes of the 'oldhammers' who enjoyed the previous editions. Hopefully at some point those people will get over it and move on.

It would probably help with the noise if the incoming news weren't bad one after another. People calling out the bashing brigade conviniently ignore the fact that few pages ago we had news of possibly scrapping or toning down slaanesh, before there was a statue confirming their desperate dedication to all this, before there were models and art and there's still no balancing mechanics anywhere to be seen. It's like the people disapointed with all this were forbiden to comment on a constantly developing situation.

Not to mention guys hurt by critique for some reason raising the noise and stiring the pot just as much with comments like 10 guys negativity circlejerk etc.

Mork wrote:When you try to look at it from the outside through an objective lens, GW is making a pretty big leap here - and to me, they should get props for that.

And to me the leap is pointless and unnecessary also makes practicaly everything worse, if you try objective then still pretty mediocore effort overall by any standards just covered by loud fanfare and statues of fake gold.

How hard was it to keep 8th edition models and books on mail order and keep at least a quiet support? Or provide some point cost to warscrolls? Release a detailed information about what is going to get scrapped and when, maybe the haters, whiners, negative nancies and black hearted waac douches like me wouldnt have to stay in rumours topics to plan purchases for armies they want to finish?

Mork wrote:The -could- have taken the easy way out: WHFB 9th edition! Change a paragraph here or there! Tidy up this spot! Make this section more confusing! Birth out a new BRB for $100, and start the army book cycle all over again! That would have been the -safe- bet for them, but 'safe' wasn't working. They decided to mix things up, and here we are. Yeah, the fluff is really weaksauce so far, and the rules have at least three enormous holes big enough to drive a herd of rat-ogres through. Everyone has different ideas what they -could- have done different/better. But what we got is what they've settled on, and it ain't gonna be changing anytime soon.

Or they could have streamlined the game without striping it of tactical options and units customisation. Like, let's say 8 pages of rules and few warscroll per unit. Or indeed release 9th edition but maybe a bit better this time, games with just as expensive models but better rules seem to sell well.

The fact that you defend Age of Something (insulting) with "they could have released something worse and probably would" or "it's bad but it's what we've got so deal with it" speaks volumes about it.

 Jehan-reznor wrote:
Couldn't find the link for the white dwarf leak anymore but in the last picture it says" where has the dark prince gone" so Slaneesh is at least missing?

Is s/he at least on the side of a milk carton? Have you seen this god? Answers to the name of Slaneesh. Last seen wearing nothing.

Plumbumbarum wrote:

It would probably help with the noise if the incoming news weren't bad one after another. People calling out the bashing brigade conviniently ignore the fact that few pages ago we had news of possibly scrapping or toning down slaanesh, before there was a statue confirming their desperate dedication to all this, before there were models and art and there's still no balancing mechanics anywhere to be seen. It's like the people disapointed with all this were forbiden to comment on a constantly developing situation.

Couldn't have put it much better. If people keep expressing their disappointment, it's because GW keeps up the stream of stuff to be disappointed by. Some people think AoS is the best thing since sliced bread; some think it's one more nail in GW's coffin. Are we only allowed to discuss the news about it, in the news discussion thread, with the former viewpoint?

There's talk here about being thankful for the ignore button. I think that's pretty much par for the course. Can't say anything bad about GW. Can't point out AoS's problems. Can't point out alternatives for other disappointed people. Can't prompt an actual discussion. Be quiet. Be ignored.

In any case I'll be interested to see the next couple of half year reports, to see what effect those 10 people who didn't buy AoS had.

£30 for 5 basic line infantry? you robbing gaks lol.

 Pete Melvin wrote:

 Jehan-reznor wrote:
Couldn't find the link for the white dwarf leak anymore but in the last picture it says" where has the dark prince gone" so Slaneesh is at least missing?

Is s/he at least on the side of a milk carton? Have you seen this god? Answers to the name of Slaneesh. Last seen wearing nothing.

I missed whatever kicked the whole "slanesh gone" discussion off, but in the WD with the free miniature Slaanes was explicitly named amongst the other chaos gods to be out there happily corrupting the mortal realms. So his symbol changed a bit - so what? They changed the names of the races, ffs. Is there any solid statement that slaanesh has been kicked out of the pantheon?

The "where has the dark prince gone" might mean anything right now. A new realm of sex drugs and rock&roll as Slaanesh Demonkin will be the surprising next release? A campaign or whatever else? Not convinced that he's been retconned yet.

 angelofvengeance wrote:
£30 for 5 basic line infantry? you robbing gaks lol.

What makes me laugh is its £30 for 5, which is quite a lot anyway but nothing crazy for GW, and then £20 for one model, the same size.

 Vermis wrote:

Plumbumbarum wrote:

It would probably help with the noise if the incoming news weren't bad one after another. People calling out the bashing brigade conviniently ignore the fact that few pages ago we had news of possibly scrapping or toning down slaanesh, before there was a statue confirming their desperate dedication to all this, before there were models and art and there's still no balancing mechanics anywhere to be seen. It's like the people disapointed with all this were forbiden to comment on a constantly developing situation.

Couldn't have put it much better. If people keep expressing their disappointment, it's because GW keeps up the stream of stuff to be disappointed by. Some people think AoS is the best thing since sliced bread; some think it's one more nail in GW's coffin. Are we only allowed to discuss the news about it, in the news discussion thread, with the former viewpoint?

There's talk here about being thankful for the ignore button. I think that's pretty much par for the course. Can't say anything bad about GW. Can't point out AoS's problems. Can't point out alternatives for other disappointed people. Can't prompt an actual discussion. Be quiet. Be ignored.

In any case I'll be interested to see the next couple of half year reports, to see what effect those 10 people who didn't buy AoS had.

None of those things are actually negatives unless you've already got your knickers in a twist. Toned down Slaanesh? Have they gone back through all the existing books adding black bars? No. Frankly nobody knows what's going on with Slaanesh, people are just leaping to negative conclusions. Statue "confirming their desperate dedication"? a) Why is them throwing some marketing effort behind something bad all of a sudden just because it's marketing a game without FOC and points b) who in their right mind gives a gak about a statue

So basically from where I'm standing it's negative bandwagoning where any tiny little thing is leapt on and blown up into some huge deal, and you sound like idiots.

 ImAGeek wrote:

 angelofvengeance wrote:
£30 for 5 basic line infantry? you robbing gaks lol.

What makes me laugh is its £30 for 5, which is quite a lot anyway but nothing crazy for GW, and then £20 for one model, the same size.

Oh I know lol. GW, you so crazy!

 Vermis wrote:

Plumbumbarum wrote:

It would probably help with the noise if the incoming news weren't bad one after another. People calling out the bashing brigade conviniently ignore the fact that few pages ago we had news of possibly scrapping or toning down slaanesh, before there was a statue confirming their desperate dedication to all this, before there were models and art and there's still no balancing mechanics anywhere to be seen. It's like the people disapointed with all this were forbiden to comment on a constantly developing situation.

Couldn't have put it much better. If people keep expressing their disappointment, it's because GW keeps up the stream of stuff to be disappointed by. Some people think AoS is the best thing since sliced bread; some think it's one more nail in GW's coffin. Are we only allowed to discuss the news about it, in the news discussion thread, with the former viewpoint?

There's talk here about being thankful for the ignore button. I think that's pretty much par for the course. Can't say anything bad about GW. Can't point out AoS's problems. Can't point out alternatives for other disappointed people. Can't prompt an actual discussion. Be quiet. Be ignored.

In any case I'll be interested to see the next couple of half year reports, to see what effect those 10 people who didn't buy AoS had.

Not to mention rooting for it to fail is imo a valid stance just as any other and since when is it obligatory for an independent forum to come to positive conclusion about a product. Maybe the healtiest outcome is actualy a collective spiteful bashing and a sticky with 99 resons not to buy Ark of Simplicity.

Fun fact is that I'm not entirely there atm. I do root for it to fail in it's current form but there was a rumor at some point that the rules are going to let you choose between skirmish and ranked formation with adequate bonuses and drawbacks. If that was actualy a part of an advanced rules supplement and implememted properly, there was a balancing mechanism and they used the warsrolls potential to be a living faq then they could still win me over. Not as in rebase everything and buy sigmarines but like play a game once in a while, buy a good model here or there and not become a spiteful GW hater.

As for ignore button, I think ignoring a lot of things is the only way to enjoy GW especialy their new project so the button itch is kind of natural heh.






Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Bull0 wrote:

 Vermis wrote:

Plumbumbarum wrote:

It would probably help with the noise if the incoming news weren't bad one after another. People calling out the bashing brigade conviniently ignore the fact that few pages ago we had news of possibly scrapping or toning down slaanesh, before there was a statue confirming their desperate dedication to all this, before there were models and art and there's still no balancing mechanics anywhere to be seen. It's like the people disapointed with all this were forbiden to comment on a constantly developing situation.

Couldn't have put it much better. If people keep expressing their disappointment, it's because GW keeps up the stream of stuff to be disappointed by. Some people think AoS is the best thing since sliced bread; some think it's one more nail in GW's coffin. Are we only allowed to discuss the news about it, in the news discussion thread, with the former viewpoint?

There's talk here about being thankful for the ignore button. I think that's pretty much par for the course. Can't say anything bad about GW. Can't point out AoS's problems. Can't point out alternatives for other disappointed people. Can't prompt an actual discussion. Be quiet. Be ignored.

In any case I'll be interested to see the next couple of half year reports, to see what effect those 10 people who didn't buy AoS had.

None of those things are actually negatives unless you've already got your knickers in a twist. Toned down Slaanesh? Have they gone back through all the existing books adding black bars? No. Frankly nobody knows what's going on with Slaanesh, people are just leaping to negative conclusions. Statue "confirming their desperate dedication"? a) Why is them throwing some marketing effort behind something bad all of a sudden just because it's marketing a game without FOC and points b) who in their right mind gives a gak about a statue

So basically from where I'm standing it's negative bandwagoning where any tiny little thing is leapt on and blown up into some huge deal, and you sound like idiots.

Given how even the most negative rumors didnt reveal the truth about rules, it is safe to assume that anything can happen including the worst crap.

The statue showed quite clearly that this is indeed a main product not something that is going to coexist with for example 9th edition further down the line. It was negative news even if you dont take into acount how embarassing it is.

Putting iconic things on staues is one thing. Putting random crap on statues with a hope that it will make them apear iconic before you even know the reception is another lol.

Btw you state how none of those things are actualy negatives then ignore lack of balance mechanism also art and models which can be negative for sure for some and then state that it's all blown out and makes one sound like an idiot. Insulting baseless and selective, Age of Sycophants defender in a nutshell.

 Bull0 wrote:
So basically from where I'm standing it's negative bandwagoning where any tiny little thing is leapt on and blown up into some huge deal, and you sound like idiots.

Destroying the universe and starting anew isn't a tiny little thing.
Releasing a wargame that lacks any sort of form or structure isn't a tiny little thing.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Bull0 wrote:
So basically from where I'm standing it's negative bandwagoning where any tiny little thing is leapt on and blown up into some huge deal, and you sound like idiots.

Destroying the universe and starting anew isn't a tiny little thing.
Releasing a wargame that lacks any sort of form or structure isn't a tiny little thing.

Neither of those things have actually happened. The WFB timeline moved on and they released a wargame with an unconventional form and structure.

Unconventional form and structure heh, nice euphemism you got there.

Plumbumbarum wrote:
Given how even the most negative rumors didnt reveal the truth about rules, it is safe to assume that anything can happen including the worst crap.

The statue showed quite clearly that this is indeed a main product not something that is going to coexist with for example 9th edition further down the line. It was negative news even if you dont take into acount how embarassing it is.

Putting iconic things on staues is one thing. Putting random crap on statues with a hope that it will make them apear iconic before you even know the reception is another lol.

Btw you state how none of those things are actualy negatives then ignore lack of balance mechanism also art and models which can be negative for sure for some and then state that it's all blown out and makes one sound like an idiot. Insulting baseless and selective, Age of Sycophants defender in a nutshell.

You didn't realise before the statue that this would be a core product? OK. That's fairly insane. As for it being "negative news", well, no. It's a fething statue. It told us nothing we didn't already know, you're just circlejerking on it because it's a big, gaudy statement of GW's intent, so ridiculing it is more effective for that.

I've discussed the balance and mechanics at length in this thread already and don't need to again when I was responding to a couple of specific points. Likewise the art and models, nobody needs to hear me repeat my subjective opinion again that the khorne models are some of the nicest GW have ever done, and that some of the art that's been released is really cool. That's not being selective, that's just keeping it objective.

I'm sorry you find me pointing out how silly you seem is insulting, that wasn't my intention. Surely if I'm full of crap, my "insults" should be water off a duck's back. I also reject the accusation of me being a sycophant - you'll find I've criticised this release as much as I've defended it, the difference is I'm recognizing the positives such as they are and I'm not indulging in all the fething hysteria because I find it ridiculous.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Plumbumbarum wrote:
Unconventional form and structure heh, nice euphemism you got there.

Nice completely empty statement you've got there, what I said was 100% correct.

Anyone seen the video where the guy sets fire to his fantasy army because he doesn't like age of sigmar? Rather sad and pathetic

 Motograter wrote:
Anyone seen the video where the guy sets fire to his fantasy army because he doesn't like age of sigmar? Rather sad and pathetic

The Internet.

 Motograter wrote:
Anyone seen the video where the guy sets fire to his fantasy army because he doesn't like age of sigmar? Rather sad and pathetic

Lol someone's done that? Wow.

 Motograter wrote:
Anyone seen the video where the guy sets fire to his fantasy army because he doesn't like age of sigmar? Rather sad and pathetic

Link?

Starts at about 8mins in after he's finished ranting! I think I speak for pretty much everyone here- what a f-ing moron.

I find it quite funny...and now, we know how GW figurines react to fire. Never thought that Witch Elves would bend that quickly.

Strangely, it's somewhat liberating...like someone burning money, as if it was worthless in itself. It's like freeing yourself from material contingencies. Nearly a philosophical dimension.

Yeah, definitely funny to look at this. But not if you're still attached to GW...

 angelofvengeance wrote:
Starts at about 8mins in after he's finished ranting! I think I speak for pretty much everyone here- what a f-ing moron.

I think someone should have told him about KoW

 Bull0 wrote:

Plumbumbarum wrote:
Given how even the most negative rumors didnt reveal the truth about rules, it is safe to assume that anything can happen including the worst crap.

The statue showed quite clearly that this is indeed a main product not something that is going to coexist with for example 9th edition further down the line. It was negative news even if you dont take into acount how embarassing it is.

Putting iconic things on staues is one thing. Putting random crap on statues with a hope that it will make them apear iconic before you even know the reception is another lol.

Btw you state how none of those things are actualy negatives then ignore lack of balance mechanism also art and models which can be negative for sure for some and then state that it's all blown out and makes one sound like an idiot. Insulting baseless and selective, Age of Sycophants defender in a nutshell.

You didn't realise before the statue that this would be a core product? OK. That's fairly insane. As for it being "negative news", well, no. It's a fething statue. It told us nothing we didn't already know, you're just circlejerking on it because it's a big, gaudy statement of GW's intent, so ridiculing it is more effective for that.

I've discussed the balance and mechanics at length in this thread already and don't need to again when I was responding to a couple of specific points. Likewise the art and models, nobody needs to hear me repeat my subjective opinion again that the khorne models are some of the nicest GW have ever done, and that some of the art that's been released is really cool. That's not being selective, that's just keeping it objective.

I'm sorry you find me pointing out how silly you seem is insulting, that wasn't my intention. Surely if I'm full of crap, my "insults" should be water off a duck's back. I also reject the accusation of me being a sycophant - you'll find I've criticised this release as much as I've defended it, the difference is I'm recognizing the positives such as they are and I'm not indulging in all the fething hysteria because I find it ridiculous.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Plumbumbarum wrote:
Unconventional form and structure heh, nice euphemism you got there.

Nice completely empty statement you've got there, what I said was 100% correct.

You said "none of these things are actualy negatives unles something something" as objective fact when there were things that can obviously be negatives to some lol. The whole point was that if the news are bad for you then why cant you post it.

Insane? Hyperbole much too much? Why was it obvious that it's the core product, rumors were all over the place about it and note from GW means crap not to mention I can photoshop sth like that in 3 minutes. Then it surely doesnt make an impression of a core product .

It was 100% correct, yes I see it now. Let's add that the whole thing isn't idiotic, it's just eclectic.

There's no hysteria in my case, rather healthy fun made of crazy company. Also you didnt point out that I sound silly, you stated an opinion that I sound silly. And yes I dont care about it in the slightest but it doesnt make your sound like idiots comment less boorish towards actual people who were insulted because they bash a product heh. Me with all my vitrol, I'm nicer to GW as people than you to me lol, anyway peace and go paint a sigmarine.

 Vermis wrote:
There's talk here about being thankful for the ignore button. I think that's pretty much par for the course. Can't say anything bad about GW. Can't point out AoS's problems. Can't point out alternatives for other disappointed people. Can't prompt an actual discussion. Be quiet. Be ignored.

You can do all of that, but maybe it would be a good idea to do it without calling in question the maturity and intelligence of those who disagree with you. The 'hater' camp might have been called grumpy and whiny and such, but I don't recall any of you guys being compared to a mentally disabled 12 year old, like we were. Ah, the wondrous self-righteousness of the conservative brain.

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 Vermis wrote:
There's talk here about being thankful for the ignore button. I think that's pretty much par for the course. Can't say anything bad about GW. Can't point out AoS's problems. Can't point out alternatives for other disappointed people. Can't prompt an actual discussion. Be quiet. Be ignored.

You can do all of that, but maybe it would be a good idea to do it without calling in question the maturity and intelligence of those who disagree with you. The 'hater' camp might have been called grumpy and whiny and such, but I don't recall any of you guys being compared to a mentally disabled 12 year old, like we were. Ah, the wondrous self-righteousness of the conservative brain.

Yes, one person said that. Not everyone who has been negative. But we all get lumped into one group because we all disagree with people who are positive.

Likewise, when one person tells you to stop repeating yourself over and over, it doesn't mean that the Dakkadakka collective fanboy hive mind is forbidding you to have an opinion.

Having read over a wee bit of the fluff, I'm still sad that GW felt the only way they could progress the stroy was to nuke the site from orbit (only way to be sure) BUT I must say I quite like the idea of a fight-back against Chaos.

40K can be so relentlessly grim sometimes with the whole 'regardless of anything you do, Chaos will win' so to see a hopeful sliver, no matter how small, is quite refreshing

Also, I must chime in with everyone else about the identity of the new fourth Chaos God, I don't think it's the Horned Rat (who has always been doing well solo thank you very much). I think it's either Morathi or Malekith lifted up and installed as an avatar of Slaanesh, or maybe even a usurper? Would be an interesting twist if nothing else.

It's also interesting that apparently Chaos realized that destroying everything is a bad idea. They blew up the first world but that left them really, really bored until they found the 9 Realms, so the second time around they just enslaved everyone.

This just in: people on Wargaming forums find it hard to be moderate in their stated beliefs!

Do we have any kind of idea what the upcoming forces will be? I mean, I know that we have the four alliances of Order, Chaos, Death and Destruction, representing the basic axis of fantasy factions; but do we have an idea of what forces will be within those? I note that 1d4chan has started tactics pages (currently empty) for such factions as 'Mummies' and 'Skeletons'. Is the author of those responding to some piece of fluff?

I know that Tomb King and Vampire Count units have different keywords thus far, and I am expecting new Death units to follow some of those without actually fitting into the legacy warscrolls. To be honest, I'm just dying to know whether 'ancient world themed skeleton army' will still be a thing!