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2015/07/11 01:25:02
Subject: Age of Sigmar - Slaanesh Replaced? plus big book, stormcast archers, dismounted celestan
Had my 1st game of AoS and I was impressed that it was even worse than I expected from just reading the rules.
Not sure why people.keep saying that the rules are ok because they make the game more tactical, any tactics are about as deep as a paddling pool.
Game comes down to target priority and thats pretty much it, honestly I know people keep mentioning KoW but theres no comparison now.
AoS is more on the level of zombecied or dwarf kings hold just without a board. Actually the combat rules remind me of somthing but I cannot put my finger on it, maybe the original dwarf kings hold or the d&d boardgames.
Your last point is especially laughable and comical, because not only the 7th ed Valkyrie shown dumber things (like being able to throw the troopers without parachutes out of its hatches, no harm done) - Irbis
2015/07/11 01:31:01
Subject: Re:Age of Sigmar - Slaanesh Replaced? plus big book, stormcast archers, dismounted celestan
angelofvengeance wrote: Starts at about 8mins in after he's finished ranting! I think I speak for pretty much everyone here- what a f-ing moron.
makes me think about the Douchbags that goes in line for 3 days in front of a Gaming store, to buy a 400$ console, then smash it in front of the eyes of the poor sods that stood in the cold/rain for hours, and for wich those 400$, represent hours of work and hard earned cash, while this idiot is crushing it,...if the cash is not a problem, then give it to someone who will have a use for it FFS...
As for the models the sgmarines as per there 40k counterparts seem to have been sculpted by somone with no grasp of human anatomy.
The models themselves are crap, due to being generic and bland for the rank and file. With the officers having more bling than gaggle of rappers, making them look clutered.
I am not even going to bother bringing up mr skully again or yet more generic khorne stuff. I would say however that mr skully is right up there in the 10 shitest sculpts that gw got the work experince lad to squeeze out.
Your last point is especially laughable and comical, because not only the 7th ed Valkyrie shown dumber things (like being able to throw the troopers without parachutes out of its hatches, no harm done) - Irbis
2015/07/11 01:35:53
Subject: Age of Sigmar - Slaanesh Replaced? plus big book, stormcast archers, dismounted celestan
migooo wrote: Khorne is like the loud guy everyone knows that sneezes or coughs loudly when he's not the centre of attention. I'm so sick of him getting all the attention. Just once I'd like a cool Tzzenchian warrior mage or something.
Shoosh you! We're getting a Khornetress Wall kit! Who needs Tzeentch nonsense when we have fortress walls covered in brass, skulls, Khorne symbols and more skulls!
oni wrote:
When the new army books arrive they will have detachments similar to the Necron Decurion Detachment and Space Marine Gladius Strikeforce Detachment. You'll have a compulsory Core and some optional Auxiliary formations. These detachments will bring the balance that everyone desires. These style detachments are a built in composition system without the complexity of that nonsense above.
They literally can NOT bring the balance I desire as a skaven player. To quote myself elsewhere:
Stormvermin have better Save and Bravery. Their Rusty Halberd profile has the better stats of BOTH of the clan rat weapons, and gets 2 attacks AND -1 rend to boot. Both units are 10+ models; the Leader, Standard, Musician and Clanshields bonuses are identical. The only difference comes down to one special rule:
Murderous Ferocity (Stormvermin) - You can add 1 to the hit rolls for a Stormvermin if it targets a unit that has fewer models than its own unit.
Strength in Numbers (Clan Rats): You can add 1 to the wound rolls for Clanrats if their unit has 20 or more models. If the unit has 30 or more models, you can add 1 to their hit and wound rolls.
The first bonus to "To Wound" rolls for Clanrats makes them equivalent to base Stormvermin. So you need 20 Clan Rats to be as good as 20 Stormvermin. The bonus to hit for Clan Rats comes in at 30 models; Stormvermin get the bonus if they outnumber their opponent instead. I'd personally give the edge to Stormvermin (because there are plenty of units that are limited to 1 model, like heros and monsters), whereas Clan Rats can be reduced below 30. "But you can take a HUGE unit of clan rats and never drop below 30!" If I'm taking a unit that big, I could make them Stormvermin and be almost guaranteed to outnumber my opponent and STILL get the bonus.
So if both models cost me 1 "wound", why would I ever field Clan Rats? It used to be I'd field clan rats because they were 4ppm instead of 7ppm. So I could get more Clan Rats than I could Stormvermin for equal points. Now they're both effectively 1ppm, but are not anywhere close to equivalent.
Forcing me to take units of clan rats is essentially forcing a handicap, because they made the unit completely, utterly and inarguably inferior. This was previously accounted for, at least, in the point cost of the model. That is no longer the case. Whether by wound count like the sample tournament build, or model count as per the Main Rules.
pretre wrote:
terrainguy, on 10 Jul 2015 - 2:17 PM, said:
Apparently, these are on their way here soon.
So far, she's only posted pics of actual upcoming stuff, so I imagine these are legit.
I know we've covered that these are from a store, not GW headquarters; they were posted somewhere down in the AoS boards and I'll say here what I said there: these rules completely frell armies that are "quantity over quality" armies. A Pack Master is barely a hero, but gets the key word. He'd count against my limit, which then further limits other units I can take in that they essentially require that support to be viable. It's utter garbage.
H.B.M.C. wrote:Look at that scenario page! Look at the map. Thems be Khorne fortress walls!
We must see this kit!!!
I am pretty sure we've seen them in a studio picture. The one where the CelestiansCelestants the Lightning dudes are in the middle and surrounded by the Khorne dudes. The picture that is pretty much an exact duplicate of the old Grey Knights picture where they're surrounded by daemon models.
In any case, I know they've been pointed out and posted before.
How big are the respective models? If the smaller ones are the clan rats then more of them will be able to fight in melee and fit into the deployment zone at the start of the game. The primary balancing forces for as are table size, model size, and unit availability. You don't BRI g an army to an as game, you bring a collection. With the place/ counter place mechanic of the deployment you are each hoping to have the proper tools to counter your opponents army. That is where balance lies, in the models themselves. Its weird to think of it that way, but that iis what they are doing...
streamdragon wrote: I am pretty sure we've seen them in a studio picture. The one where the CelestiansCelestants the Lightning dudes are in the middle and surrounded by the Khorne dudes. The picture that is pretty much an exact duplicate of the old Grey Knights picture where they're surrounded by daemon models.
In any case, I know they've been pointed out and posted before.
Well of course they have - how else would we know what they are? What I mean is we need to see the kit - what it's made out of, it's options, whether it's one of those limited polystone thingies, a real plastic modular kit, or a more standard 'fortress walls' kit that doesn't have a lot of options.
Given Gw's status as a UK company, I propose it as Wallethammer: The Pounding
We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
H.B.M.C. wrote: Ah, if we're now at the point where we're basing unit effectiveness on how much the models cost, we really have reached Wallethammer: Age of Dollars.
Also...
Thems be some mighty big crossbows the Sigmarines are packing...
And I don't give a damn if he's on a 40mm base, but AUD$55 for a mono-pose clam-pack character us bat-gak insane.
The crossbow men look fine, between the Age of Sigmar starter and those I'll have a KoW basilean force over 5K points
2015/07/11 02:55:04
Subject: Re:Age of Sigmar - Slaanesh Replaced? plus big book, stormcast archers, dismounted celestan
So far, she's only posted pics of actual upcoming stuff, so I imagine these are legit.
It says right on there that they are unofficial. They were made by a store that is running a tournament.
They look like someone just wanted some of the stuff back from 8th. I actually don't like them.
-Heroes suddenly are hard to kill if they hang in the back. One thing we've seen after about 30 games is that you have to be a bit careful with heroes and wizards. Warmachines can do a good job of ruining their day. With this set up, having vizards in your backfield are much more protected.
-I actually don't see the need for pulling out the closest models in a unit. It's been working fine without that and just takes more time.
-I've actually come to like not having to worry about shooting into combat, and just worrying about line of site. Large monsters are much easier to kill and not as dominant. Because of that players aren't minding when people bring big models, and they add a lot to the game. You can't hid a bloodthirster in combat.
I think you are right. This game is very different from Warhammer Fantasy, and I think people are trying to change things that seem like they wouldn't work in Warhammer Fantasy, or are just too different. People should probably try playing several games to get used to how different everything is, before trying to change the rules. Some of the ones that seem odd actually work well in combination with everything else. As you point out, it is hard to have good line of sight to shoot at things locked in combat, unless they are really big. Having said that, I think it might have been good to have a rule that said you couldn't shoot if you were within 1/2" of an enemy (or in base contact, if we weren't pretending there were no bases). It is a little hard to imagine how those empire handgunners manage to reload while someone is actively trying to stab them.
2015/07/11 03:17:16
Subject: Re:Age of Sigmar - Slaanesh Replaced? plus big book, stormcast archers, dismounted celestan
I think GW will "balance" forces, as others pointed out, by doing formations. Take these units, get this bonus. Forces people to buy more models, including units they wouldn't normally buy.
2015/07/11 03:37:15
Subject: Re:Age of Sigmar - Slaanesh Replaced? plus big book, stormcast archers, dismounted celestan
So far, she's only posted pics of actual upcoming stuff, so I imagine these are legit.
It says right on there that they are unofficial. They were made by a store that is running a tournament.
They look like someone just wanted some of the stuff back from 8th. I actually don't like them.
-Heroes suddenly are hard to kill if they hang in the back. One thing we've seen after about 30 games is that you have to be a bit careful with heroes and wizards. Warmachines can do a good job of ruining their day. With this set up, having vizards in your backfield are much more protected.
-I actually don't see the need for pulling out the closest models in a unit. It's been working fine without that and just takes more time.
-I've actually come to like not having to worry about shooting into combat, and just worrying about line of site. Large monsters are much easier to kill and not as dominant. Because of that players aren't minding when people bring big models, and they add a lot to the game. You can't hid a bloodthirster in combat.
I think you are right. This game is very different from Warhammer Fantasy, and I think people are trying to change things that seem like they wouldn't work in Warhammer Fantasy, or are just too different. People should probably try playing several games to get used to how different everything is, before trying to change the rules. Some of the ones that seem odd actually work well in combination with everything else. As you point out, it is hard to have good line of sight to shoot at things locked in combat, unless they are really big. Having said that, I think it might have been good to have a rule that said you couldn't shoot if you were within 1/2" of an enemy (or in base contact, if we weren't pretending there were no bases). It is a little hard to imagine how those empire handgunners manage to reload while someone is actively trying to stab them.
I just imagine a swirling melee, not poor models with feet glued to the ground. Something like the Warg vs Rohan scenes in two towers.
But from the games I've played so far, it is so nice that people can play with all these big stompy monsters. And better that those monsters cant "hide" by being in combat, and they can still get shot up by archers and warmachines. Games are very bloody and quite fun. I just did played monster heavy Lizardmen vs my woodaelfs led by Durthu and Orion. I eventually conceded around Round 9 when it got down to 5 Kroxigor vs 6 waywatchers. Very fun game.
....and lo!.....The Age of Sigmar came to an end when Saint Veetock and his hamster legions smote the false Sigmar and destroyed the bubbleverse and lead the true believers back to the Old World.
2015/07/11 03:44:06
Subject: Age of Sigmar - Slaanesh Replaced? plus big book, stormcast archers, dismounted celestan
So far, she's only posted pics of actual upcoming stuff, so I imagine these are legit.
It says right on there that they are unofficial. They were made by a store that is running a tournament.
They look like someone just wanted some of the stuff back from 8th. I actually don't like them.
-Heroes suddenly are hard to kill if they hang in the back. One thing we've seen after about 30 games is that you have to be a bit careful with heroes and wizards. Warmachines can do a good job of ruining their day. With this set up, having vizards in your backfield are much more protected.
-I actually don't see the need for pulling out the closest models in a unit. It's been working fine without that and just takes more time.
-I've actually come to like not having to worry about shooting into combat, and just worrying about line of site. Large monsters are much easier to kill and not as dominant. Because of that players aren't minding when people bring big models, and they add a lot to the game. You can't hid a bloodthirster in combat.
I think you are right. This game is very different from Warhammer Fantasy, and I think people are trying to change things that seem like they wouldn't work in Warhammer Fantasy, or are just too different. People should probably try playing several games to get used to how different everything is, before trying to change the rules. Some of the ones that seem odd actually work well in combination with everything else. As you point out, it is hard to have good line of sight to shoot at things locked in combat, unless they are really big. Having said that, I think it might have been good to have a rule that said you couldn't shoot if you were within 1/2" of an enemy (or in base contact, if we weren't pretending there were no bases). It is a little hard to imagine how those empire handgunners manage to reload while someone is actively trying to stab them.
It's a completely different game, an not one for everybody. It's a bold move by GW and if they are correct, could solidify their position in tabletop gaming.
It is not and never will be ranked fantasy wargaming, though, which is my baileywick. I'll just take my models and move on. Others will find a home in AoS. It's all good. There's no such thing as badwrongfun.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/07/11 03:44:45
2015/07/11 04:30:20
Subject: Age of Sigmar - Slaanesh Replaced? plus big book, stormcast archers, dismounted celestan
With the skaven units, if the cheaper to amass clan rats were exactly the same power level as the more expensive (and better equipped) storm vermin, there would be no reason to BUY storm vermin. Now you have the option of more weaker models for a monetary cost versus more capable models for more $. They both have a position on a table, they just have different chances of being there in force.
When you talk about how big the units need to be to get their bonuses, you get 40 clan rats for the price of 30 vermin. That's a pretty big footprint difference.
HairySticks wrote: Dunno if im just late to the party with htis, but just seen it and its making me crease myself ~
This guy, is so upset by GW that he's actually set fire to his warhammer collection.
I've been umming and arring about how I feel on AoS... but this...
This is the single best thing GW has ever done... cus its driven asshats like that out of the community I dunno about everyone else, but I've never once stepped into a hobby shop and not been met by 'that guy'.... the regular customer who's always there with an attitude so stinky that its driving away anyone potentially new to the group. Its the same guy who has nothing better to do with his time too.
They probably dont mean to be repulsive with their attitudes, but really, they were terrible for it. Pushing them away by changing the game this way may or may not have been intentional, but its a godsend Never been so happy to see people rage quit!
This is just silly. I'm not paying any attention to Age of Sigmar and neither is anyone else I know. They're just playing Fantasy like nothing ever happened. You don't have to destroy your own mini's over it.
My Armies:
5,500pts 2,700pts 2,000pts
2015/07/11 05:14:39
Subject: Age of Sigmar - Slaanesh Replaced? plus big book, stormcast archers, dismounted celestan
HairySticks wrote: Dunno if im just late to the party with htis, but just seen it and its making me crease myself ~
This guy, is so upset by GW that he's actually set fire to his warhammer collection.
I've been umming and arring about how I feel on AoS... but this...
This is the single best thing GW has ever done... cus its driven asshats like that out of the community I dunno about everyone else, but I've never once stepped into a hobby shop and not been met by 'that guy'.... the regular customer who's always there with an attitude so stinky that its driving away anyone potentially new to the group. Its the same guy who has nothing better to do with his time too.
They probably dont mean to be repulsive with their attitudes, but really, they were terrible for it. Pushing them away by changing the game this way may or may not have been intentional, but its a godsend Never been so happy to see people rage quit!
This is just silly. I'm not paying any attention to Age of Sigmar and neither is anyone else I know. They're just playing Fantasy like nothing ever happened. You don't have to destroy your own mini's over it.
Anyone who does something like this is unhinged and has anger issues. I wouldn't want to play them. If they thought I was TFG, who knows what they might do, lol.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/07/11 05:16:33
2015/07/11 05:20:07
Subject: Age of Sigmar - Slaanesh Replaced? plus big book, stormcast archers, dismounted celestan
TwilightSparkles wrote: I think the idea of at least a blister a week is legit, think about it, what better way to counter internet discounters ? Average blister price is £15-20 , assuming max discount of 20%, thats £4 at best, then at least 2.50 of that is swallowed by postage, and you'll be lucky to get it by midweek of the week after release. Most people would just go into their FLGS or GW store and buy it at RRP.
The leaked WD77 cover suggests that week there is one figure out - the celestant guy with pet - so that backs that up initially.
Or, you know, wait a few weeks and order several at once, saving on postage and making the discount relevant again. The only way to stop that is to literally only sell each model for two weeks(one week of preorders, one week of release) which would be utterly mental; they think people burn out quickly now? Imagine a system where taking a holiday or getting ill could exclude you from your chosen army's new release.
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2015/07/11 05:20:59
Subject: Age of Sigmar - Slaanesh Replaced? plus big book, stormcast archers, dismounted celestan
H.B.M.C. wrote: Ah, if we're now at the point where we're basing unit effectiveness on how much the models cost, we really have reached Wallethammer: Age of Dollars.
Also...
Thems be some mighty big crossbows the Sigmarines are packing...
And I don't give a damn if he's on a 40mm base, but AUD$55 for a mono-pose clam-pack character us bat-gak insane.
If they just used a little more fog on their pictures, they could save a lot on sculpting, casting, and painting costs! Foghammer: Age of Vapor!
Also, for a game that seemingly is trying to lower the bar for startup costs, featuring a 'skirmish' battle with what, 15 Juggernauts, seems the wrong way to sell it.
"Hey, kids, for only $270 bucks you can have this 15 model warband! It's cheap at twice the price!"
2015/07/11 06:21:15
Subject: Age of Sigmar - Slaanesh Replaced? plus big book, stormcast archers, dismounted celestan
The painting guide is not great unless all you want is a\n exhaustive guide to exactly how the studio models were painted. There is very little fluff and no information about alternative paint schemes.
Manchu wrote: The painting guide is not great unless all you want is a\n exhaustive guide to exactly how the studio models were painted. There is very little fluff and no information about alternative paint schemes.
Indeed. I think the YouTube videos for the AoS starter stuff are much more helpful. Particularly with painting flesh which is something I frequently struggle with.
Da Butcha wrote: Also, for a game that seemingly is trying to lower the bar for startup costs, featuring a 'skirmish' battle with what, 15 Juggernauts, seems the wrong way to sell it.
Albino Squirrel wrote: This game is very different from Warhammer Fantasy, and I think people are trying to change things that seem like they wouldn't work in Warhammer Fantasy, or are just too different. People should probably try playing several games to get used to how different everything is, before trying to change the rules. Some of the ones that seem odd actually work well in combination with everything else. As you point out, it is hard to have good line of sight to shoot at things locked in combat, unless they are really big.
It's a completely different game, an not one for everybody. It's a bold move by GW and if they are correct, could solidify their position in tabletop gaming.
It is not and never will be ranked fantasy wargaming, though, which is my baileywick. I'll just take my models and move on. Others will find a home in AoS. It's all good. There's no such thing as badwrongfun.
I got in a game this evening, and I'm OK with how AoS works. It's not perfect, but it's a much better engine and concept compared to even 6E.
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