Making Orks Competitive- Gather the Council, Prepare to Waaagh!

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**docdoom77**

Frozocrone wrote:
Good to see Shootas being used

20 man squads are the way to go? I was thinking of running 10 man squads with 'eavy armour' to mitigate being fired at, maybe even another squad of 10 shootas over the 'eavy armour.

Also unsure about Boss Poles these days, I frequently roll 4-6 (i guess 50% chance does play a part) so it's really not playing a part. How mandatory are Boss Poles for you all?

I find bosspoles to be mandatory. Best 5 points you can spend in the codex, imo. There are several bad results (especially if you are below 10 models and outside combat) so a re-roll is very usefull. Mob rule sucks, but it's usually better than running away.

**Frozocrone**

So would a squad of shootas x16 with a boss nob and pole be a good load out? Finding it hard to make points for 20, unless I cut my solo bikerboss and have 2:1 units of shootas and sluggas to make points work

**The Imperial Answer**

So looking at the Waaagh! Ghazghkull Dreadmob for a moment in a 2000 point game I notice one could have a separate 537 point detachment of:

1 x Big Mek (no upgrades).

2 x Gretchin (no upgrades).

2 x Burna Bommers (no upgrades)

3 x Looted Wagons (all with Kill Kannons).

Would this be an acceptable level of support for the Walkers ?

**Solar Shock**

Frozocrone wrote:So would a squad of shootas x16 with a boss nob and pole be a good load out? Finding it hard to make points for 20, unless I cut my solo bikerboss and have 2:1 units of shootas and sluggas to make points work

16 shootas would work

They going to be footslogging or in a wagon?

The Imperial Answer wrote:So looking at the Waaagh! Ghazghkull Dreadmob for a moment in a 2000 point game I notice one could have a separate 537 point detachment of:

1 x Big Mek (no upgrades).

2 x Gretchin (no upgrades).

2 x Burna Bommers (no upgrades)

3 x Looted Wagons (all with Kill Kannons).

Would this be an acceptable level of support for the Walkers ?

Hmm interesting idea, you manage to keep the AV saturation going with the looted wagons, what loadout are you going on your walkers? I assume grotzookas on kanz? I think this could potentially be a great list to play, first turn you'd be rushing forward to get as much in range as possible, then you'd simply unleash all your templates. The burna bomba's will help with anything infantry sat in cover, or backfield.

As a note; you can technically take a mini-mek as the mandatory HQ, as he's only slotless when another HQ is present. That would free up 20 pts, you could then take a blitza bommer instead of 1 burna, to give you a little diversity in weapons. The burna has your ignores cover, whereas the blitza can hit parking lots, invis units and anything with a good save.

**koooaei**

A thing of note is that nobs in smaller squads don't always need a PK. I don't always take pk even in 20-strong squads of shootas. But don't avoid bosspoles. They're lifesavers.

**Frozocrone**

Solar Shock wrote:
Frozocrone wrote:So would a squad of shootas x16 with a boss nob and pole be a good load out? Finding it hard to make points for 20, unless I cut my solo bikerboss and have 2:1 units of shootas and sluggas to make points work

16 shootas would work They going to be footslogging or in a wagon?

The Imperial Answer wrote:So looking at the Waaagh! Ghazghkull Dreadmob for a moment in a 2000 point game I notice one could have a separate 537 point detachment of:

1 x Big Mek (no upgrades).

2 x Gretchin (no upgrades).

2 x Burna Bommers (no upgrades)

3 x Looted Wagons (all with Kill Kannons).

Would this be an acceptable level of support for the Walkers ?

Hmm interesting idea, you manage to keep the AV saturation going with the looted wagons, what loadout are you going on your walkers? I assume grotzookas on kanz? I think this could potentially be a great list to play, first turn you'd be rushing forward to get as much in range as possible, then you'd simply unleash all your templates. The burna bomba's will help with anything infantry sat in cover, or backfield.

As a note; you can technically take a mini-mek as the mandatory HQ, as he's only slotless when another HQ is present. That would free up 20 pts, you could then take a blitza bommer instead of 1 burna, to give you a little diversity in weapons. The burna has your ignores cover, whereas the blitza can hit parking lots, invis units and anything with a good save.

They would be footslogging it - not a huge fan of battlewagons and they'd die in Trukks (also have no HS left so there's that too xD)

**Solar Shock**

16 footslogging would be a good size if its all you can fit in. Whats their role? screening something? or just moving up to take an objective?

Like Koooaei said, bosspole is a lifesaver, PK's are great but not always needed. You can save yourself 20 points right there if you go with a BigChoppa instead, you could then add another 3 boyz instead for a 19 man unit?

**Frozocrone**

Moving up to take objectives, shooting from cover, assaulting if need be (I2 sucks but hey, 3 attacks on the charge ain't bad) and for each squad I've got a Weirdboy attached, maybe get Hammerhand or Warpath for more CC potential.

I've currently got Boss Poles attached, no CC upgrade though xD

I'm contemplating switching my Troops to 2x20 squads - would be enough in my list to change Mek Gunz to 2x3 traktors and 5 KMKs, as well as either a Dakkajet or Warbiker squad (which could have a Power Klaw).

That said, I do like the 'MSU' approach (despite Mob rule) so smaller squads that function efficiently are more my thing (not a huge fan of GreenTide despite it's competitiveness and I've run Zhadsnark for so long I wanted to try something different).

**koooaei**

I often run nobs in such throwaway squads with just choppas+sluggas. 5 s5 attacks on the charge is allready enough most of the time. Bigchoppa does add to versatility a bit but i'm more a fan of a rokkit, to be honest. It rarely does anything but it can be annoying to your opponent when it does. You can never have enough rokkits for orkses nowadays. Bigchoppa is there to more reliably down vehicles and have at least something against walkers. But most of the time, regular choppa is enough.

If you take a bigchoppa, bother to get a shoota attached. It's free as a slugga swap and you don't loose anything. Same applies to PK nobs.

**Solar Shock**

Frozocrone wrote:Moving up to take objectives, shooting from cover, assaulting if need be (I2 sucks but hey, 3 attacks on the charge ain't bad) and for each squad I've got a Weirdboy attached, maybe get Hammerhand or Warpath for more CC potential.
I've currently got Boss Poles attached, no CC upgrade though xD
I'm contemplating switching my Troops to 2x20 squads - would be enough in my list to change Mek Gunz to 2x3 traktors and 5 KMKs, as well as either a Dakkajet or Warbiker squad (which could have a Power Klaw).
That said, I do like the 'MSU' approach (despite Mob rule) so smaller squads that function efficiently are more my thing (not a huge fan of GreenTide despite it's competitiveness and I've run Zhadsnark for so long I wanted to try something different).

Well if you've got a weirdboy in there; then unless you have a Slotless challenge mek in there I would leave the nob without a PK. As if you get into CC and get challenged by someone who IS going to kill you first you have to pick between losing the weirdboy or the PK - which can be a hard choice as the PK will often help win combat, but the weirdboy adds all the psychic phase stuff. So without a PK you can happily throw the nob into the challenge, However do note weirdboyz don't have a BP, so no mob rule re-roll. Personally I would stick a mek in there anyway, at 15 pts (=5 for a KMB or rokkit) he's a steal.

koooaei wrote:I often run nobs in such throwaway squads with just choppas+sluggas. 5 s5 attacks on the charge is allready enough most of the time. Bigchoppa does add to versatility a bit but i'm more a fan of a rokkit, to be honest. It rarely does anything but it can be annoying to your opponent when it does. You can never have enough rokkits for orkses nowadays. Bigchoppa is there to more reliably down vehicles and have at least something against walkers. But most of the time, regular choppa is enough.

If you take a bigchoppa, bother to get a shoota attached. It's free as a slugga swap and you don't loose anything. Same applies to PK nobs.

I often forget the shoota replaces only the slugga. Does that mean;
Nob - shoota, choppa who buys a Bigchoppa gains +1 attack for having 2 CC weapons? ahh no its 2 handed nvm.

**PipeAlley**

Solar Shock wrote:
Frozocrone wrote:Good to see Shootas being used

20 man squads are the way to go? I was thinking of running 10 man squads with 'eavy armour' to mitigate being fired at, maybe even another squad of 10 shootas over the 'eavy armour.

Also unsure about Boss Poles these days, I frequently roll 4-6 (i guess 50% chance does play a part) so it's really not playing a part. How mandatory are Boss Poles for you all?

10 probably isn't a great size to pick. As noted 4-6 requires that you have 10 plus models to pass, with 10 models a loss in 3 models is a test, but at 7 models you need a 2-3 to pass or to be in combat with a 1. therefore a size that is more suitable is either 12 or 11 in a trukk (11 for space for a mek), footslogging a size of 13 means you need 4 models lost for a test, but thats still less than 9 when you do test. So a size of 14 is most effective; as 4 is a test and your still at 10 models. However 20 is obviously better for the same sort of reasons.

Boss poles; at 5 points, if 1 boss pole stops 1 unit running then its more than likely paid off all the boss poles in your list. They are very useful when needed

PipeAlley wrote:

I forgot to mention he also has DLS if he ever gets into CC. He can see more than a Grot and if he's sitting around doing nothing he might as well be firing a Big Gun. I'd rather have a Gorkanaut next to the BM I decsribed. Much better Counter Assault unit with rampage and more guns.
I don't plan on moving my Mek Gunz, the MA is there to be able to counter-assault anything that gets close. I also have KMB Meks in the squad for Mid range shooting and more ablative wounds especially challenges. Really the only thing that threatens this unit is Super Heavies stomp Attack.

Ah i see, so you used the BM's as more of a CC deterrent, I wasn't planning on equipping them so heavily, just BM, MA, thats like 75 points. Did they see combat much?

Yes and no. Depends on the enemy really. I'm still tweaking the list but to me, 15 points for Killsaw and Gitfinda is cheap. We almost always play Malestrom and I don't like giving up Slay The Warlord points.

**Frozocrone**

It's funny you say that as I've just made points for my 1500 list for it. Have two sets of 3 Traktors and 1 unit of three KMK for my Heavy Support now, while also having two Warbosses on Bikes, DLS (one has attack squig to make up for relic), 2 Weirdboyz and 2x20 man shoota squads, with a PK so the Mek can challenge (barebones mek as no points for upgrades, but hey, at least I can save my Psyker + BP now)!

**The Imperial Answer**

Solar Shock wrote:

The Imperial Answer wrote:So looking at the Waaagh! Ghazghkull Dreadmob for a moment in a 2000 point game I notice one could have a separate 537 point detachment of:

1 x Big Mek (no upgrades).

2 x Gretchin (no upgrades).

2 x Burna Bommers (no upgrades)

3 x Looted Wagons (all with Kill Kannons).

Would this be an acceptable level of support for the Walkers ?

Hmm interesting idea, you manage to keep the AV saturation going with the looted wagons, what loadout are you going on your walkers? I assume grotzookas on kanz? I think this could potentially be a great list to play, first turn you'd be rushing forward to get as much in range as possible, then you'd simply unleash all your templates. The burna bomba's will help with anything infantry sat in cover, or backfield.

As a note; you can technically take a mini-mek as the mandatory HQ, as he's only slotless when another HQ is present. That would free up 20 pts, you could then take a blitza bommer instead of 1 burna, to give you a little diversity in weapons. The burna has your ignores cover, whereas the blitza can hit parking lots, invis units and anything with a good save.

For the Walkers it would probably be:

9 x Killa Kans with Rokkits

3 x Deff Dreads with Skorchas

2 x Gorkanauts with Grot Riggers

**Dakkamite**

What do you guys think of Grot Megatanks?

Have some toy tank chassis' I was going to use for Grot Tanks until I saw that Grot Tanks are like 2" long lol, so started turning them into Megatanks

Was looking at 3x Grotzooka and 2x TL Grotzooka until I realized that

a) with random movement getting close is a mission
b) for considerably cheaper I can take all big shootas and have something like half the firepower but from all the way across the table

The other option is rockets. An average of 3 S8AP3 hits per turn, that can be spread freely across multiple targets... is it worth it?

**The Imperial Answer**

Dakkamite wrote:
What do you guys think of Grot Megatanks?

Have some toy tank chassis' I was going to use for Grot Tanks until I saw that Grot Tanks are like 2" long lol, so started turning them into Megatanks

Was looking at 3x Grotzooka and 2x TL Grotzooka until I realized that

a) with random movement getting close is a mission
b) for considerably cheaper I can take all big shootas and have something like half the firepower but from all the way across the table

The other option is rockets. An average of 3 S8AP3 hits per turn, that can be spread freely across multiple targets... is it worth it?

Well given you have to take Grot Tanks to have a Mega Tank in a regular Ork army, any weapons you don't select for the Mega-Tank you can place on the Grot Tanks.

Also the Grot Mega-Tank has a 5++ Invulnerable from all attacks that aren't Destroyer or Ordinance. This makes them somewhat more survivable.

**Solar Shock**

Does the Mega tank have the ability to re-roll the move distance? like the grot commanda does in the grot tank squad. You do raise an interesting point about all BS, it would help mitigate any range issues, MAGNETS! MAGNETS! MAGNETS!

I say try both;

5 grotzookas.... well that's just exactly how it sounds! like its going to open up some serious holes in infantry. Can shoot multiple targets too.

5 BS not quite as AI as grotzookas but your still going to pour out a tremendous amount of fire. Rokkits are a good option, but personally i'd take KMB's over rokkits, are they the same cost? I know KMB's overheat but your orks!

**The Imperial Answer**

Solar Shock wrote:
Does the Mega tank have the ability to re-roll the move distance? like the grot commanda does in the grot tank squad. You do raise an interesting point about all BS, it would help mitigate any range issues, MAGNETS! MAGNETS! MAGNETS! I say try both;

5 grotzookas.... well that's just exactly how it sounds! like its going to open up some serious holes in infantry. Can shoot multiple targets too.

5 BS not quite as AI as grotzookas but your still going to pour out a tremendous amount of fire. Rokkits are a good option, but personally i'd take KMB's over rokkits, are they the same cost? I know KMB's overheat but your orks!

I don't believe Grot Mega Tanks can re-roll their distance.

But at the same time they don't take a penetrating hit if they roll double 1s like the regular Grot Tanks.

They also move 3D6 instead of the Grot Tanks 2D6.

**Solar Shock**

Hmm ok well with 3D6 ofc you will occasionally get those crazy 1,1,1 rolls, but in general your looking at about 11-12 inches. Combined with the grotzooka's you've got a pretty good 30" threat range

what about a mix of BS and grotzookas? They will have similar targets generally. The BS's will also help when your shooting at light vehicles, as with a zooka you can only score 1 hit, whereas the BS is capable of 3.

**The Imperial Answer**

Solar Shock wrote:
Hmm ok well with 3D6 ofc you will occasionally get those crazy 1,1,1 rolls, but in general your looking at about 11-12 inches. Combined with the grotzooka's you've got a pretty good 30" threat range

what about a mix of BS and grotzookas? They will have similar targets generally. The BS's will also help when your shooting at light vehicles, as with a zooka you can only score 1 hit, whereas the BS is capable of 3.

Well given the Grot Mega Tank can fire each of its guns at a different target if it wishes a mix of Big Shootas and Grot Zookas would be an interesting combination.

Plus the main turret guns are twin-linked as well.

It may also be a good idea to have a mix of more than one as if the Grot Tank is shaken it can still snapfire the Big Shootas which aren't blasts (blasts cannot be snap fired I believe).

**Glitcha**

tag8833 wrote:
A weirdboy can use Da Jump to get out of close combat, right?

If he is embarked in a vehicle does the vehicle benefit from Da Jump? Would it make a difference if the vehicle were immobilized?

You can use da jump in close combat, but you can't in a vehicle. As per the BRB, only witchfire powers can be casted while in a vehicle.

**The Imperial Answer**

So looking at the Waaagh! Ghazghkull "Great Waaagh! Detachment" since it says all units must have the Orks faction could you use the Dredmob for that Force Organization as they are an Orks faction?

Or the Ork Hoard Detachment from the current Ork Codex ?

**Gruxz**

Does the entire unit benefit from the weirdboys 'da jump' in combat?

**tag8833**

Glitcha wrote:
tag8833 wrote:
A weirdboy can use Da Jump to get out of close combat, right?

If he is embarked in a vehicle does the vehicle benefit from Da Jump? Would it make a difference if the vehicle were immobilized?

You can use da jump in close combat, but you can't in a vehicle. As per the BRB, only witchfire powers can be casted while in a vehicle.

For some reason I thought you could target your own unit or your transport with blessings. Guess that was 6th edition.

**Dakkamite**

Grot Megatank is just 2d6 movement, going to 3d6 if it doesn't shoot (yeah right! grots love da boom).

Built my first one all big shootas, might make the second grotzookas - but thats what my grot tank mob will have. Probs better to have them on the mob due to that shaken/blasts thing.

Which means shootas or rokkets. Maybe rokkets this time since I used up a *lot* of gun bits for the seven big shootas on the first one...

**The Imperial Answer**

On the note of Grot Tanks, how good would those be for Outflanking ?

**Glitcha**

The Imperial Answer wrote:
So looking at the Waaagh! Ghazghkull "Great Waaagh! Detachment" since it says all units must have the Orks faction could you use the Dredmob for that Force Organization as they are an Orks faction?

Or the Ork Hoard Detachment from the current Ork Codex ?

Yes, Yes and Yes. Just remember that some selections from the Dreadmob does require you to take a compulsory choice. For example. To take Dreads as troops, you must have 1 Spanna boy mob.

**Frozocrone**

One day I might just try a Kustom Mega Stompa w/ Powerfields and an assortment of weapons to make him killy and load him up with Burnas w/ 3 Meks each and have 2 Big Meks w/ Meks from having 2 HQ's as well as a KFF.

Doable in 1000 points mind...for 1500 would take Zhadsnark and Bikes for fast Ob. Secured. Might not even need Boss Poles haha..

**The Imperial Answer**

Glitcha wrote:
The Imperial Answer wrote:
So looking at the Waaagh! Ghazghkull "Great Waaagh! Detachment" since it says all units must have the Orks faction could you use the Dredmob for that Force Organization as they are an Orks faction?

Or the Ork Hoard Detachment from the current Ork Codex ?

Yes, Yes and Yes. Just remember that some selections from the Dreadmob does require you to take a compulsory choice. For example. To take Dreads as troops, you must have 1 Spanna boy mob.

I've been wondering, where does it say the Spannaboyz are Compulsory at ?

Also does that mean I could have (possible) Deepstriking Spanna Boyz and Deff Dreads on the Waaagh! Ghazghkull Foc ?

**killerdou**

In the unit entry it states 1+ number of units

**The Imperial Answer**

Can someone inform me of why Cybork Slasherz are considered a lack luster unit ?