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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/05/28 18:45:05
Subject: Making Orks Competitive- Gather the Council, Prepare to Waaagh!
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Dakka Veteran
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whoops ! I totally missed that some how.
carry on =)
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- Neva trust a Deff Skull , gitz just wanna take yur lootz
- Only good Deff Skull iz a Ded one ! |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/05/28 18:59:07
Subject: Making Orks Competitive- Gather the Council, Prepare to Waaagh!
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Stealthy Grot Snipa
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Sounded like some interesting games, some questions if you dont mind
How did the MANz hold up under all the scat fire? I assume he had no Shrei bikes? As I think the rending would have probably been worse. I like the idea of using the BW's to create extra walls once wrecked  sounds like a solid plan.
Do you feel the first couple games could have gone worse? had the players you been up against played decently? Also you mentioned the kannonz messed up the guardians, i am assuming you were using the blast shots, would you have swapped to lobbas given the chance?
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Favourite Game: When your Warboss on bike wrecks 3 vehicles simply by HoW - especially when his bike is a custom monowheel.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/05/28 21:20:06
Subject: Making Orks Competitive- Gather the Council, Prepare to Waaagh!
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Dr. Delorean wrote:The first game was actually pretty easy - I was expecting to have trouble with the Wraithknight, but a unit of Meganobz tore it apart in CC with little difficulty. Things might've been different if I hadn't gotten the charge, but he jumped it forward in his first turn rather aggressively, so I took my chance.
MANZ vs WraithKnight is iffy. Probably the best call for your situation, but you performed above average.
A Wraithknight is S10, AP:2 with WS:4. He swings at I:5 with 4 attacks base.
So generally he will kill 2 MANZ before they swing (1.66). Then the remaining MANZ will swing and do 3.5 unsaved wounds. Though Bullyboyz helps alot, and getting the charge helps alot. 5 normal MANZ getting charged by a wraith Knight will only do 1.5 wounds.
That isn't just theory hammer. The other day I took 2 MANZ missiles (3 MANZ in each), and charged them both into a Wraith Knight. It didn't end well. One group failed a fear test, and the Wraith Knight killed 2 from the other group. I only did 1 wound on the 1st round of combat and 1 more in subsequent rounds before eventually getting swept.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/05/28 23:01:08
Subject: Re:Making Orks Competitive- Gather the Council, Prepare to Waaagh!
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Dakka Veteran
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So how would 3 Deff Dreads each with 3 Power Klaws and Rokkit fair against a Wraith Knight on the charge ?
Or more correctly how long would they last is probably a better question ? Automatically Appended Next Post: koooaei wrote:
What do you mean keep up with the walkers? They're the same speed as a footslogging mek.
Noone's forcing you to spread out when it's not needed. Besides, you can keep your front row tight to cover more with kff and back rows spread out to mitigate blast damage.
Anywayz, from my experience, ork infantry is way more durable than ork vehicles. The only exception is when your enemy spams dedicated anti-infantry weaponry like so many wiverns, you can't reliably shut down enough of them to make it matter. But that'd be list tailoring. Haven't seen a lot of lists fully dedicated to anti-infantry. Have seen lots of lists fully dedicated to anti-vehicle and anti- mc.
With Orks I find its the exact opposite in a lot of cases.
They usually plan for infantry heavy Orks and the Green Tide in a lot of cases
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/05/29 00:38:05
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/05/29 01:35:38
Subject: Making Orks Competitive- Gather the Council, Prepare to Waaagh!
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Irked Necron Immortal
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koooaei wrote: Dr. Delorean wrote:I also limited the Wraithguard's Overwatch effectiveness via cunning positioning of Battlewagons to limit the number of Wraithguard that could see (and thus shoot) my meganobz
if those were scithe guards, wall of death doesn't need los or range to kill stuff.
Anywayz, good to hear you did great! I believe orks can be fine if you play to the mission and utilise our strong sides like numerical advantage, and decent threat rate up close.
Luckily they weren't, the guy didn't like the fact they received -1 to the D table, so he only took Wraithcannons.
To answer other questions: the Scatbike guy only took Scatterlasers on his bikes, no shuricans or anything else. I don't know why he did this, and in fact mentioned to him after the game that a wider variety would've helped in a lot of places, but he seems to like their RoF.
Referring to my luck with the Wraithknight, I did get a bit lucky, but the Bully Boyz formation mitigates a lot of the problems like hitting on 4s and Fear. It took them 2 rounds of combat to kill the wraithknight, but getting the charge meant wounding on 3s instead of 4s, which I think made all the difference. That and the extra attack.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/05/29 12:10:34
Subject: Re:Making Orks Competitive- Gather the Council, Prepare to Waaagh!
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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The Imperial Answer wrote:So how would 3 Deff Dreads each with 3 Power Klaws and Rokkit fair against a Wraith Knight on the charge ?
Or more correctly how long would they last is probably a better question ?
There would be a very high variance. It depends on how the WK rolls on the pen table. That being said, it isn't a terribly realistic scenario because Deff Dreads are pretty slow, and the Wraith Knight is one of the fastest things in the game, so the Wraith Knight will be getting the change, and will fairly reliably kill 1 deff dread before it swings on the charge. Also if shooting the D, it can target 2 a turn with a D shot.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/05/29 16:54:54
Subject: Re:Making Orks Competitive- Gather the Council, Prepare to Waaagh!
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Dakka Veteran
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tag8833 wrote:The Imperial Answer wrote:So how would 3 Deff Dreads each with 3 Power Klaws and Rokkit fair against a Wraith Knight on the charge ?
Or more correctly how long would they last is probably a better question ?
There would be a very high variance. It depends on how the WK rolls on the pen table. That being said, it isn't a terribly realistic scenario because Deff Dreads are pretty slow, and the Wraith Knight is one of the fastest things in the game, so the Wraith Knight will be getting the change, and will fairly reliably kill 1 deff dread before it swings on the charge. Also if shooting the D, it can target 2 a turn with a D shot.
I meant the melee variant of the Wraith Knight.
The other variant with the D-Cannons isn't all that intimidating to me.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/05/29 17:34:00
Subject: Re:Making Orks Competitive- Gather the Council, Prepare to Waaagh!
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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The Imperial Answer wrote:tag8833 wrote:The Imperial Answer wrote:So how would 3 Deff Dreads each with 3 Power Klaws and Rokkit fair against a Wraith Knight on the charge ?
Or more correctly how long would they last is probably a better question ?
There would be a very high variance. It depends on how the WK rolls on the pen table. That being said, it isn't a terribly realistic scenario because Deff Dreads are pretty slow, and the Wraith Knight is one of the fastest things in the game, so the Wraith Knight will be getting the change, and will fairly reliably kill 1 deff dread before it swings on the charge. Also if shooting the D, it can target 2 a turn with a D shot.
I meant the melee variant of the Wraith Knight.
The other variant with the D-Cannons isn't all that intimidating to me.
Knight will probably get the charge off, given the 12" move versus 6" move of the deff dredz.
The biggest problem in the math is that the deff dredz if they do not get the charge off(which chances are they wont) will have 1 of them charged first. The WK will instakill the one charged without the dred being able to retaliate, it will average 3 hits of which it will average at least 4 HP of damage which will kill a dred off the bat, leaving 2.
The dreds then charge the knight, the knight will still strike first, hitting on average 3 times(melee knight glaive has a MC reroll IIRC) The four base attacks will have to be directed since the dreds are sepeate units but on average you will now be down to 1 dred. The dred will attack back averaging 3 hits, and 2 wounds. The Knight has an INV save and FNP and will on average take 1 wound, then stomp. Stomp is unlikely to do anything. The following round the knight will on average rolling do 4-5 HP to the remaining dred.
deff dreds getting in melee with a WK is just a counter to deff dreadz not WKs
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/05/29 18:11:36
Subject: Re:Making Orks Competitive- Gather the Council, Prepare to Waaagh!
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!!Goffik Rocker!!
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Also, if you keep dreads closer together, you have a chance of loosing them to stomps from the first dread that ha charges. BTW, he has s10 HOW.
And with all above said, i'd be more afraid of d-cannon variant cause with a mellee knight you'll at least have a chance to strike if he's not lucky.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/05/29 18:13:45
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/05/29 19:09:04
Subject: Re:Making Orks Competitive- Gather the Council, Prepare to Waaagh!
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Dakka Veteran
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I probably should have specified a Deff Dread squadron like the one from the Dredmob List. Also the D-Cannon variant isn't all that intimidating to me at times. Its weapons don't Ignore Cover, aren't a Blast weapons and it doesn't have an Invulnerable if it takes the D-Cannons. They also don't ignore the Kustom Force Field or Mega Force Field.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/05/29 19:09:23
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/05/29 19:57:30
Subject: Re:Making Orks Competitive- Gather the Council, Prepare to Waaagh!
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!!Goffik Rocker!!
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They do on a roll of 6. Also, if i get it right, he hits against a squadron and you allocate pens one at a time, so he has more chance to kill > than one dread in one go.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/05/29 20:06:43
Subject: Re:Making Orks Competitive- Gather the Council, Prepare to Waaagh!
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Dakka Veteran
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I do not see how as the Kustom Force Field or Mega Force Field Invulnerable is taken against the shooting attack itself before the Destroyer result is rolled for unless I am missing something.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/05/29 20:07:09
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/05/29 20:22:35
Subject: Re:Making Orks Competitive- Gather the Council, Prepare to Waaagh!
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!!Goffik Rocker!!
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D-weapon rolls on a table when it hits.
1- nothing happens
2-5 - the target suffers a pen/wound (that it can try to save) that causes d3 HP/Wounds loss
6 - the target suffers a pen/wound that ignores cover and invul and that causes 6+d6 HP/Wounds loss
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/05/29 20:24:50
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/05/29 20:27:50
Subject: Re:Making Orks Competitive- Gather the Council, Prepare to Waaagh!
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Dakka Veteran
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koooaei wrote:D-weapon rolls on a table when it hits.
1- nothing happens
2-5 - the target suffers a pen/wound (that it can try to save) that causes d3 HP/Wounds loss
6 - the target suffers a pen/wound that ignores cover and invul and that causes 6+ d6 HP/Wounds loss
If the Kustom Force Field or Mega Force Field saves the hit ( the shooting attack itself ) then you don't roll on the Detroyer Table afterword.
You only roll on the table when an unsaved hit has been scored.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/05/29 20:30:36
Subject: Re:Making Orks Competitive- Gather the Council, Prepare to Waaagh!
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Mutilatin' Mad Dok
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The Imperial Answer wrote: koooaei wrote:D-weapon rolls on a table when it hits.
1- nothing happens
2-5 - the target suffers a pen/wound (that it can try to save) that causes d3 HP/Wounds loss
6 - the target suffers a pen/wound that ignores cover and invul and that causes 6+ d6 HP/Wounds loss
If the Kustom Force Field or Mega Force Field saves the hit ( the shooting attack itself ) then you don't roll on the Detroyer Table afterword.
You only roll on the table when an unsaved hit has been scored.
Ahh, nope, sorry. That doesn't make a lick of sense. Why would they say in the d-weapon table that it ignores invulnerable saves... if you still get to take an invulnerable save?
More specifically:
Normal sequence is - hit, wound, saves
D-weapon table replaces the to-wound, before saves are rolled. Sequence is - hit, roll on d-table, saves
If the d-weapon rolls a 6 on it's chart, no saves allowed. Simple.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/05/29 20:56:01
Subject: Re:Making Orks Competitive- Gather the Council, Prepare to Waaagh!
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Dakka Veteran
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Jambles wrote:The Imperial Answer wrote: koooaei wrote:D-weapon rolls on a table when it hits. 1- nothing happens 2-5 - the target suffers a pen/wound (that it can try to save) that causes d3 HP/Wounds loss 6 - the target suffers a pen/wound that ignores cover and invul and that causes 6+ d6 HP/Wounds loss If the Kustom Force Field or Mega Force Field saves the hit ( the shooting attack itself ) then you don't roll on the Detroyer Table afterword. You only roll on the table when an unsaved hit has been scored. Ahh, nope, sorry. That doesn't make a lick of sense. Why would they say in the d-weapon table that it ignores invulnerable saves... if you still get to take an invulnerable save? More specifically: Normal sequence is - hit, wound, saves D-weapon table replaces the to-wound, before saves are rolled. Sequence is - hit, roll on d-table, saves If the d-weapon rolls a 6 on it's chart, no saves allowed. Simple. The Kustom Force Field and Mega Force Field rules state that they offer an Invulnerable against shooting attacks. The damage from the Destroyer Hit itself isn't the shooting attack itself.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/05/29 20:59:41
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/05/29 20:57:33
Subject: Making Orks Competitive- Gather the Council, Prepare to Waaagh!
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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So not really a tactics question more of a modelling question...
Do your Orks have the 32mm bases or the 25mm? Just got a batch of Orks that need gluing and I'm not a huge fan of spending £3 per ten models (unless it can be done cheaper).
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YMDC = nightmare |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/05/29 21:04:57
Subject: Re:Making Orks Competitive- Gather the Council, Prepare to Waaagh!
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!!Goffik Rocker!!
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The Imperial Answer wrote: Jambles wrote:The Imperial Answer wrote: koooaei wrote:D-weapon rolls on a table when it hits.
1- nothing happens
2-5 - the target suffers a pen/wound (that it can try to save) that causes d3 HP/Wounds loss
6 - the target suffers a pen/wound that ignores cover and invul and that causes 6+ d6 HP/Wounds loss
If the Kustom Force Field or Mega Force Field saves the hit ( the shooting attack itself ) then you don't roll on the Detroyer Table afterword.
You only roll on the table when an unsaved hit has been scored.
Ahh, nope, sorry. That doesn't make a lick of sense. Why would they say in the d-weapon table that it ignores invulnerable saves... if you still get to take an invulnerable save?
More specifically:
Normal sequence is - hit, wound, saves
D-weapon table replaces the to-wound, before saves are rolled. Sequence is - hit, roll on d-table, saves
If the d-weapon rolls a 6 on it's chart, no saves allowed. Simple.
The Kustom Force Field and Mega Force Field rules state that they offer an Invulnerable against shooting attacks.
The damage from the Destroyer Hit itself isn't a shooting attack.
You don't save the damage - you save the penetrating hit. Which you can't save if it's a 6. Plain and simple.
3 examples:
1. He shoots a d-cannon at you, hits and rolls a 3 which is a pen. You try to save the pen and roll a 5 which means the pen is saved - no further damage taken.
2. He shoots a d-cannon at you, hits and rolls a 3 which is a pen. You try to save a pen and roll a 3 which means you failed to save the pen. He rolls further d3 to determine how many HP you loose in addition to what damage you take from a damage table.
3. He shoots a d-cannon at you, hits and rolls a 6 which is a pen that ignores cover and invul. You can't save it. He rolls further d6 to determine how many HP (which is 6+ d6) you loose in addition to what damage you take from a damage table.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/05/29 21:07:26
Subject: Re:Making Orks Competitive- Gather the Council, Prepare to Waaagh!
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Mutilatin' Mad Dok
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The Imperial Answer wrote: Jambles wrote:The Imperial Answer wrote: koooaei wrote:D-weapon rolls on a table when it hits.
1- nothing happens
2-5 - the target suffers a pen/wound (that it can try to save) that causes d3 HP/Wounds loss
6 - the target suffers a pen/wound that ignores cover and invul and that causes 6+ d6 HP/Wounds loss
If the Kustom Force Field or Mega Force Field saves the hit ( the shooting attack itself ) then you don't roll on the Detroyer Table afterword.
You only roll on the table when an unsaved hit has been scored.
Ahh, nope, sorry. That doesn't make a lick of sense. Why would they say in the d-weapon table that it ignores invulnerable saves... if you still get to take an invulnerable save?
More specifically:
Normal sequence is - hit, wound, saves
D-weapon table replaces the to-wound, before saves are rolled. Sequence is - hit, roll on d-table, saves
If the d-weapon rolls a 6 on it's chart, no saves allowed. Simple.
The Kustom Force Field and Mega Force Field rules state that they offer an Invulnerable against shooting attacks.
The damage from the Destroyer Hit itself isn't the shooting attack itself.
So to be clear, your argument is that, unlike EVERY other invulnerable save in the game that you take after determining wounds, that in the case of the KFF and MFF that you get to save the HIT instead?
When it says you get an invulnerable save against shooting attacks, it means just that: you get an invulnerable save against shooting attacks. When do you take an invulnerable save? After determining the number of wounds. When do you determine the effects of a D-weapon attack? After the to-hit roll, instead of rolling to-wound.
I mean, am I crazy? Can anybody else back me up on this? I've never heard of anybody playing it that way. Mind you, this would make KFFs/MFFs a lot, a LOT, better.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/05/29 21:20:39
Subject: Re:Making Orks Competitive- Gather the Council, Prepare to Waaagh!
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Dakka Veteran
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Jambles wrote:The Imperial Answer wrote: Jambles wrote:The Imperial Answer wrote: koooaei wrote:D-weapon rolls on a table when it hits. 1- nothing happens 2-5 - the target suffers a pen/wound (that it can try to save) that causes d3 HP/Wounds loss 6 - the target suffers a pen/wound that ignores cover and invul and that causes 6+ d6 HP/Wounds loss If the Kustom Force Field or Mega Force Field saves the hit ( the shooting attack itself ) then you don't roll on the Detroyer Table afterword. You only roll on the table when an unsaved hit has been scored. Ahh, nope, sorry. That doesn't make a lick of sense. Why would they say in the d-weapon table that it ignores invulnerable saves... if you still get to take an invulnerable save? More specifically: Normal sequence is - hit, wound, saves D-weapon table replaces the to-wound, before saves are rolled. Sequence is - hit, roll on d-table, saves If the d-weapon rolls a 6 on it's chart, no saves allowed. Simple. The Kustom Force Field and Mega Force Field rules state that they offer an Invulnerable against shooting attacks. The damage from the Destroyer Hit itself isn't the shooting attack itself. So to be clear, your argument is that, unlike EVERY other invulnerable save in the game that you take after determining wounds, that in the case of the KFF and MFF that you get to save the HIT instead? When it says you get an invulnerable save against shooting attacks, it means just that: you get an invulnerable save against shooting attacks. When do you take an invulnerable save? After determining the number of wounds. When do you determine the effects of a D-weapon attack? After the to-hit roll, instead of rolling to-wound. I mean, am I crazy? Can anybody else back me up on this? I've never heard of anybody playing it that way. Mind you, this would make KFFs/MFFs a lot, a LOT, better. The way I've heard it argued by individuals is: "The Kustom Force Field is an Invulnerable against shooting attacks. If you are rolling for damage this implies immediately that the Kustom Force Field didn't intercept the shot and that the unit was hit. "Against shooting attacks" implies that the actual shot itself immediately hits the Kustom Force Field which you roll the Invulnerable for and resolve the results (damage) of the shot if the Invulnerable is failed." However in case I am interpreting things incorrectly or it has been explained in error I will email GW and see what their response on it is.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/05/29 21:26:01
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/05/29 21:30:19
Subject: Making Orks Competitive- Gather the Council, Prepare to Waaagh!
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Mutilatin' Mad Dok
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It's just that the interpretation you're presenting is in direct opposition to the way that the rules tell you to take invulnerable saves - which is to say, after rolling to wound. This is the same for ALL the other saves, too.
I think you're interpreting too much in the whole "gets an invulnerable save against shooting" part of it - this is just saying that the unit ONLY gets the save vs shooting, and not against melee attacks.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/05/29 21:48:07
Subject: Making Orks Competitive- Gather the Council, Prepare to Waaagh!
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Dakka Veteran
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Jambles wrote:It's just that the interpretation you're presenting is in direct opposition to the way that the rules tell you to take invulnerable saves - which is to say, after rolling to wound. This is the same for ALL the other saves, too. I think you're interpreting too much in the whole "gets an invulnerable save against shooting" part of it - this is just saying that the unit ONLY gets the save vs shooting, and not against melee attacks. Well to be sure I will email GW and see what they say about it. I'm uncertain about a lot of things in the Ork codex so. The fact that the codex allows you to use the Grabbin Klaw to prevent something the size of a Super-Heavy Walker (even a Warlord Titan) leaves me uncertain about many things in the codex.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/05/29 21:51:23
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/05/29 21:55:11
Subject: Making Orks Competitive- Gather the Council, Prepare to Waaagh!
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Mutilatin' Mad Dok
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The Imperial Answer wrote: Jambles wrote:It's just that the interpretation you're presenting is in direct opposition to the way that the rules tell you to take invulnerable saves - which is to say, after rolling to wound. This is the same for ALL the other saves, too.
I think you're interpreting too much in the whole "gets an invulnerable save against shooting" part of it - this is just saying that the unit ONLY gets the save vs shooting, and not against melee attacks.
Well to be sure I will email GW and see what they say about it.
I'm uncertain about a lot of things in the Ork codex so.
The fact that the codex allows you to use the Grabbin Klaw to prevent something the size of a Super-Heavy Walker (even a Warlord Titan) leaves me uncertain about many things in the codex.
Good luck with that one.
@Frozocrone I haven't seen any Orks with the larger bases yet. I can believe that they would move them up to the bigger ones eventually, but I don't think there's much onus on you to do that, especially until they start releasing them that way.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/05/29 23:13:54
Subject: Re:Making Orks Competitive- Gather the Council, Prepare to Waaagh!
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Dakka Veteran
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So now that the Belly Gun doesn't have to fire every other turn and can fire a 3D6 Blast, STR 7, AP3 how much utility could you get out of the weapon against bike spam of any kind ?
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/05/29 23:20:31
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/05/29 23:32:13
Subject: Making Orks Competitive- Gather the Council, Prepare to Waaagh!
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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The Imperial Answer wrote: Jambles wrote:It's just that the interpretation you're presenting is in direct opposition to the way that the rules tell you to take invulnerable saves - which is to say, after rolling to wound. This is the same for ALL the other saves, too.
I think you're interpreting too much in the whole "gets an invulnerable save against shooting" part of it - this is just saying that the unit ONLY gets the save vs shooting, and not against melee attacks.
Well to be sure I will email GW and see what they say about it.
In your interpretation, If you fail the KFF save, do you then get to take an Armor or Cover Save?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/05/30 01:03:55
Subject: Making Orks Competitive- Gather the Council, Prepare to Waaagh!
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Dakka Veteran
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tag8833 wrote:The Imperial Answer wrote: Jambles wrote:It's just that the interpretation you're presenting is in direct opposition to the way that the rules tell you to take invulnerable saves - which is to say, after rolling to wound. This is the same for ALL the other saves, too. I think you're interpreting too much in the whole "gets an invulnerable save against shooting" part of it - this is just saying that the unit ONLY gets the save vs shooting, and not against melee attacks. Well to be sure I will email GW and see what they say about it.
In your interpretation, If you fail the KFF save, do you then get to take an Armor or Cover Save? No as you can only make one saving throw on a model.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/05/30 01:12:41
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/05/30 01:14:44
Subject: Making Orks Competitive- Gather the Council, Prepare to Waaagh!
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Dakka Veteran
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A vehicles makes its saves vs glances and pens, not vs hits.
Just like you saves vs wounds not hits.
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- Neva trust a Deff Skull , gitz just wanna take yur lootz
- Only good Deff Skull iz a Ded one ! |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/05/30 01:26:13
Subject: Making Orks Competitive- Gather the Council, Prepare to Waaagh!
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Dakka Veteran
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Dakkafang Dreggrim wrote:A vehicles makes its saves vs glances and pens, not vs hits. Just like you saves vs wounds not hits. I see. Also on the note of the Kustom Force Field how does that affect Structures that you are embarked upon ?
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/05/30 01:36:18
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/05/30 03:52:43
Subject: Making Orks Competitive- Gather the Council, Prepare to Waaagh!
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Regular Dakkanaut
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A claimed building is a unit of your army, and follows vehicules rules except it can't move.
So yes, it gets an invulnerable save (against shooting) when within 6" of your big mek
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/05/30 03:56:02
Subject: Making Orks Competitive- Gather the Council, Prepare to Waaagh!
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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The Imperial Answer wrote:tag8833 wrote:The Imperial Answer wrote: Jambles wrote:It's just that the interpretation you're presenting is in direct opposition to the way that the rules tell you to take invulnerable saves - which is to say, after rolling to wound. This is the same for ALL the other saves, too.
I think you're interpreting too much in the whole "gets an invulnerable save against shooting" part of it - this is just saying that the unit ONLY gets the save vs shooting, and not against melee attacks.
Well to be sure I will email GW and see what they say about it.
In your interpretation, If you fail the KFF save, do you then get to take an Armor or Cover Save?
No as you can only make one saving throw on a model.
But the KFF saves against hits in your view where as the Armor Save is against wounds. So a model is only taking 1 save against each.
Plus, as I understand the flow of the game that you propose.
1) Enemy Rolls to Hit.
2) KFF saves.
3) Hits that weren't saved are rolled to wound.
4) Armor save.
There is a similar effect with Eldar Titan Holofields. That is why the Lynx is so good. It works like this.
1) Enemy Rolls to Hit.
2) Once they've hit they roll again to see if they actually hit (4+)
3) Roll to Glance / Pen.
4) Jink / Invul saves.
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