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I play a lot of apoc so thats not a dealbreaker. Whats it called?

 koooaei wrote:
Yep, grots are a thing.
Last game i was playing against csm with a large cultist squad with Kharn.
It happened so that i outmaneuvred them and got a charge off. First, grots ate overwatch and than charged the way Kharn could only hit them. So that boyz went almost without losses. And Kharn killed 6 grots. What's even better is that choppaboyz wiped all the front rows of cultists so that even after the pile in-s they went out of combat and Kharn + sorc + a few left cultists remained locked up with 2 grots.

Oh, and that time when THE grot blocked the way to an imperial knight so that it could not even shoot at anything. Cause if it shot, it'd have to also shoot at THE grot and even a couple stabber shots killing it off on a 2+ would mean he'd have nothing to charge. And if he shot at other stuff, he'd not be able to charge THE grot at all. So...a single crazy grot stalled an imperial knight.

Anywayz, people i'm playing against have allready learned to not underestimate lil gobbos.

Can you explain the bit about the pile in allowing you to break combat? I've seen it come up a couple times, but have no real clue as to how it occurs (and if its something you can plan for?) I assume its simply because you are still further than 3" after a pile in or something? thus you don't count as being in combat?

Frozo,
Care to give a little more info on how you thought the multiple bike setup faired? How long did they last? what was your general tactic? do you feel they would have worked as well (or better?) as a larger blob?

Minimal tax would be 105 points (3 min units) of grots for 3 weirdboyz in the Ork detatchment.
Not too bad tbh.

Solar Shock wrote:

Can you explain the bit about the pile in allowing you to break combat? I've seen it come up a couple times, but have no real clue as to how it occurs (and if its something you can plan for?) I assume its simply because you are still further than 3" after a pile in or something? thus you don't count as being in combat?

If after all the pile ins are done none of the squad's models are in b2b with the enemy, combat ends and they're free to consolidate. And yep, you can plan on it in some situations. It might be a lifesaver. But it's random a bit ofc. Just like charging in the way you avoid challenges but still strike after the pile ins.

so an example would be;

By using say some grots and charging, creating a cone shape left for another unit to charge (IE so you can get say 4 boyz, into b2b, then 6 into b2b with the 4 boyz behind, then another 8 etc..). So that when you swing you kill most of the unit and then you've got like 6+" to the nearest enemy. Thus when its their turn and you both pile in 3" you cant physically get into B2B?

Solar Shock wrote:
Frozo,
Care to give a little more info on how you thought the multiple bike setup faired? How long did they last? what was your general tactic? do you feel they would have worked as well (or better?) as a larger blob?

I'm yet to try a large blob with a painboy but I've heard good things. I love MSU armies though, particularly for objectives so multiple bike squads will probably be my main army.

The bikes themselves worked really well and I've just got some more bought to assemble to make either 5x6 or 6x5 units, I might change this to three Deffkoptas though. I lost about 15 bikes overall per game but in each game my opponent had been penned back in their edge of the board (aside Deathwing who DS), giving linebreaker is both games and keeping lootas safe. The main weakness is lack of AP2, particulary when the Nob gets challenged and dies. That said, T5 really, really helps to keep him alive. That's why I'm going to get some MANz and zip them up too, just for more threats and AP2.

I deployed my Lootas on one side of the board and Bikes near them, with Zhadsnark on the furthest unit out. Essentially a refused flank technique and force your opponent to deploy on one side of the board (side with Lootas because it is easier to beat them). Scout up with Zhadsnarks unit, then move and flatout the rest of the units, or shoot depending on dangerous units.

Not sure how I'd beat DA now there Decurion lets them fire on full overwatch :( give me my new Codex now.

 Frozocrone wrote:


I'm yet to try a large blob with a painboy but I've heard good things. I love MSU armies though, particularly for objectives so multiple bike squads will probably be my main army.

It works great. I find the blob becomes a focus item for the enemy if thats the case. So it becomes a giant 30 wound monster with a fnp roll. Considering boys are still pretty cheap, you can dump a squad of 30 with a painboy and push the points into a faster portion of the army. They can either focus on the giant blob, or the fast moving bits. It's a tough choice for the opponent. If you kill the fast units (like deffkoptas, bikers, warboss bikes, trukks, bwagons), you have a 30 man blob ready to trounce you round 2 or 3. If they're shoota boys, you're looking at 60 shots of Str 4. Can drown out small enemy MSU's

I only stopped playing it because I was trying different lists.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Pie plates are the chief enemy of blobs though. It hurts a little on the inside when your models are coming off in large clumps.

Just fought my first game with Orks since 4ed.

It was a tough fight against Tyranids but I slogged out to win on points.

A couple of highlights/thoughts

Outflanking rokkit buggy squad killed the last warrior on an objective allowing me to grab it. Next turn they squadron went on to strip 3 wounds off a carnifex in a single volley.

Kannons are awesome! Cheap as heck and flexible in what the can shoot plus BS 3 and T7 makes these a real winner in my books. Plus they help an objective for me the whole game.

Lootas as awesome as always.

Big bike squads can be used for AA fire in a pinch.

My boyz were itching for a fight after 10 years on the shelf it seemed as I rolled a 6 for almost every run roll in the game

Solar Shock wrote:]Frozo,
Care to give a little more info on how you thought the multiple bike setup faired? How long did they last? what was your general tactic? do you feel they would have worked as well (or better?) as a larger blob?.

I've finally built a list that I'm happy with for a large blob of bikes



If there is ever a time where I need to take just two detachments, would just take Ork Horde and make the Warboss the Warlord. Probably roll on Strategic for Nightfighting (turn one Jink without flatout), Infiltrate for MANz, Pinning just because lol, reserves to manipulate gretchin coming on board, move through cover for MANz, really any would work.

Should be extremely fun to play for me, just need to get the MANz and Trukk No AA but you know just break the wings off of Flyers (and have a large enough ground force to not even care).

MrFlutterPie wrote:Just fought my first game with Orks since 4ed.

It was a tough fight against Tyranids but I slogged out to win on points.

A couple of highlights/thoughts

Outflanking rokkit buggy squad killed the last warrior on an objective allowing me to grab it. Next turn they squadron went on to strip 3 wounds off a carnifex in a single volley.

Kannons are awesome! Cheap as heck and flexible in what the can shoot plus BS 3 and T7 makes these a real winner in my books. Plus they help an objective for me the whole game.

Lootas as awesome as always.

Big bike squads can be used for AA fire in a pinch.

My boyz were itching for a fight after 10 years on the shelf it seemed as I rolled a 6 for almost every run roll in the game

Awesome stuff

Frozo,
A variant I am itching to try is this;
Mogrok's boss boyz (simply for the number of HQs, but could be done another way.)

Basically; (6 bikes, nob, BP, BC, Warboss) x 4

The aim being that you have MSU units who have a cheap challenge eater, with a warboss absolutely smashing face. Every unit you have is pretty deadly, but also when units start to take heat, you can simply move the warboss onto another unit, not only giving that unit 2 warbosses, but basically conserving your power.

As for lack of AP2, I must admit the dex lacks AP2 in a form thats mobile, mobile shooting I mean. Mek gunz sure, but you have Zhand. IMO you have to counter this with volume of fire, lootas as you used seemed perfect.

So there are ALOT of imperial knights (and other super heavies in general) in my meta. I have been running 3 units of 10 Tank Bustas, each in a gun wagon, to deal with this issue. I have been very successful (I won our last local tournament in fact) with this anti-super heavy list but to be honest it is getting a little boring. Is there any other reliable way to deal with knights other than Tank Bustas that could also be entertaining to play? I have multiples of EVERY unit in the ork codex (been playing them since 2008), and if I try to play without tank bustas I usually lose (but it's close). Is this just a trend for the orks? Go boring or go home? (Not very orky of me to be bored with blowing up super heavies).

Just had a particularly nasty experience vs Crimson Gists with Pedro Kantor so the entire army had pe orks...any tips to beat them with a bike list?

Give me PE Space Marines!

 Chosen Praetorian wrote:
So there are ALOT of imperial knights (and other super heavies in general) in my meta. I have been running 3 units of 10 Tank Bustas, each in a gun wagon, to deal with this issue. I have been very successful (I won our last local tournament in fact) with this anti-super heavy list but to be honest it is getting a little boring. Is there any other reliable way to deal with knights other than Tank Bustas that could also be entertaining to play? I have multiples of EVERY unit in the ork codex (been playing them since 2008), and if I try to play without tank bustas I usually lose (but it's close). Is this just a trend for the orks? Go boring or go home? (Not very orky of me to be bored with blowing up super heavies).

Mega Nobz with at least one kill saw can do it most of the time. You can also ram them with Zhardsnark, that works sometime aswell .

Out of curiosity do you run Nobz in your Tank Busta units??

 Geemoney wrote:

 Chosen Praetorian wrote:
So there are ALOT of imperial knights (and other super heavies in general) in my meta. I have been running 3 units of 10 Tank Bustas, each in a gun wagon, to deal with this issue. I have been very successful (I won our last local tournament in fact) with this anti-super heavy list but to be honest it is getting a little boring. Is there any other reliable way to deal with knights other than Tank Bustas that could also be entertaining to play? I have multiples of EVERY unit in the ork codex (been playing them since 2008), and if I try to play without tank bustas I usually lose (but it's close). Is this just a trend for the orks? Go boring or go home? (Not very orky of me to be bored with blowing up super heavies).

Mega Nobz with at least one kill saw can do it most of the time. You can also ram them with Zhardsnark, that works sometime aswell .

Out of curiosity do you run Nobz in your Tank Busta units??

If I run them in Battlewagons I do, because I feel I have a bigger investment to protect with them being 15 models (I also run a Painboy with them at 15 models), but when I run 10 man units in Gun Wagons I do not take the Nob as I'm trying to spam cheap, effective knight hunters. It really ruins a knight player's day when 130pts explodes almost 400pts.

Try a Big Mek with a bike and KFF/MFF riding along with a squad of deffkoptas or Warbuggies equipped with TL Rokkit Launchas to mix things up.

So I now have 3 Ork fliers and im adding the last two for my 5 flier formation, I am going to run this alongside the warband formation for the infinite waaagh!, however, how should I equip my fliers knowing that I can leave the board and regain all my 1-use weapons.

Limits being;

I can only shoot 4 weapons at full BS when zooming (correct?) so the burna bomba can fire 4 missiles and then snap shoot its other weapons?

How many missiles should I take in this case then? all 6? use 3 a turn, alongside 1 burna bomb and the super shoota?

Should I take flyboss on all 3 dakkajets? BS3 against jetbikes and skimmers sounds pretty nasty

Aim for; Arrive turn 2, bomb and missile and dakka, turn 3 repeat, leave turn 4? return turn 5 for a final salvo?

You'll want some serious reserve manipulation in that list with that many flyers. Maybe some Lootas behind an ADL w/ Comms - Big Mek/Warboss to tank wounds.

Would probably fire as many as possible since you'll just gain them all again.

Flyboss on your guys if you're looking at facing a lot of targets for it.

I'd probably not go overboard with skorcha missiles. They're pretty bad for the price. Don't forget, they're small blasts. Even if you plan on shooting them all 3 times - that's the max you'd get, it's probably still not worth it. The max i'd get is 2.

I'd definitely invest in comms relay. It's a must have.

Frozocrone wrote:You'll want some serious reserve manipulation in that list with that many flyers. Maybe some Lootas behind an ADL w/ Comms - Big Mek/Warboss to tank wounds.
Would probably fire as many as possible since you'll just gain them all again.
Flyboss on your guys if you're looking at facing a lot of targets for it.

Your definitely right, Initially I had thought this;
Warband formation - Aim to get 2x WL trait on strat using DFK - aim for getting infiltrate. Then I push up and coat the board as close as possible to the enemy in an attempt to pin them in their DZ (giving me best chances with hitting with the boom bombs and the burna bombs.)

However; I now think I probably want the enemy spread out and coming towards me, as this increases the likelihood that I can get a bombing run off as I enter the board, followed by a pivot and a second bombing run (having done a google - it appears technically I can bomb as I leave the board too, as they are done during movement, then for wound allocation you use the random selection - as you no longer have a model to compare closest model to.)

koooaei wrote:I'd probably not go overboard with skorcha missiles. They're pretty bad for the price. Don't forget, they're small blasts. Even if you plan on shooting them all 3 times - that's the max you'd get, it's probably still not worth it. The max i'd get is 2.
I'd definitely invest in comms relay. It's a must have.

So something more like;
-----------------------------------------------------
Flyer formation; 2x flyboss, 1 non-flyboss, 1 burna with 2 missiles (as now zooming I can fire all its weapons - if I have points I may take 3), 1 blitzbomba.

CAD
The IA8 Warboss who makes lootas troops (so that I can put a large objsec loota squad on a objective), he then also gives me Waaagh! (I think waaagh! is useful in almost every situation).
15 lootas
ADL - comms
Maybe 30 shoota boyz with grotsnik to make them fearless and have FNP - these dudes can be used to move to the midtable and make enemy movement difficult, leaving space behind (so between my DZ lootas and the boyz is room for fliers to come in), I can then come on, shoots some stuff, pivot and make a bombing run next turn.
-----------------------------------------------------

Im not sure? what would you guys use to build an ork fire base? Objective wise, I will clump the objectives in a diamond formation, then if I get that table edge I can hold it while my flyers make bombing runs over the midtable, if I don't get that table side, I have the chance he will clump up and I can get some good bombing runs off.

Hey what do you guys think of this combo?

Mogrok's Boss Boyz
Mogrok: Finkin Kap, Shokk Attack Gun, Git Finda, 3 Ammo Runts
Big Mek: Shokk Attack Gun, Git Finda, 3 Ammo Runts
Big Mek: Shokk Attack Gun, Git Finda, 3 Ammo Runts

...

KMK's x5, 5 Ammo Runts

All on a Sky Shield Landing Pad. I would probally back it up with lootaz, tankbustaz, and big units of boyz.

HAHA! SAG mayhem!

How would you distribute the Bmeks? Personally I would put 1 with the KMK's, 1 with the lootas and maybe simply add some grots to the last one for ablative wounds. I feel like you want to have them hit different targets as even with scatter your likely to hit plenty of various units etc. All grouped as one you might find that either your terribly overkilling or that you make that 1 unit such a huge target.

But I like the idea of being on a skyshield, the 4++ is very nice. Although I would assume you need to make sure there is no room left on the pad for enemy DSer's, (as they pinpoint when lading on the pad right?)

I was going to do it as one big unit, maybe even add a painboy to it to be annoying. T7 with 3+ armor, 4++ and FNP seems good. I like 1 unit only because it mitigates LD checks from causalities. Although I do see the benefit of splitting of the Big Meks; like you said.

I think with all those models on there the Landing Pad is going to be packed tight.

 Geemoney wrote:
I was going to do it as one big unit, maybe even add a painboy to it to be annoying. T7 with 3+ armor, 4++ and FNP seems good. I like 1 unit only because it mitigates LD checks from causalities. Although I do see the benefit of splitting of the Big Meks; like you said.

I think with all those models on there the Landing Pad is going to be packed tight.

well luckily I didn't realise the pad only has pinpoint DS when the sides are down.... and your not going to be taking the sides down
However, all your talk of fortifications has had me thinking;

Imperial stronghold - 2 bastions, 1 aegis defense line and a skyshield (300 points maybe)
Build the bastions with the 4 heavy bolters facing forward, place one either side of the skyshield, and the aegis in front of that.

2 units of grots, 1 in each bastion, they man the 4 heavy bolters at BS3.
KMK's on the battlements of the bastions for a coversave alongside the 3+
Then lootas on the skyshield (as the skyshield is 4++ and as far as I can tell it cant be targeted, with all the D around a building would go boom and you'd lose quite a few lootas if they were on the bastions).
Then just a blob in front of the skyshield behind the aegis to act as a meatshield and ready to take the charge from assault units.

Place objectives to try and force them to come to you and hopefully you'll output some serious firepower, you'd need some more AT in the list, but the list above shouldn't be too points heavy yet. The grots put out 12 S5, shots a turn from the bastions and the KMK's have an excellent position. The lootas have a 4++ and also can pump out some serious dakka.

Got another game in with the boyz and scored another victory.

This time it was a Blood Angel army. I managed to size the initiative which screwed up my opponents plans pretty bad. I also rolled conqueror of cities for my WL trait and the table was just littered with ruins.

He had some bad luck though such as when his death company failed a 5" charge on a unit of boyz..

Love outflanking rokkit buggies. They came on blew up a baal pred, grabbed an objective and then next turn finished off the lone survivor of a scout squad and finally scored me line breaker.

He drop podded a death company dred on a objective that I had my grots sitting on. He assaulted next turn and the grots took heavy casualties. I then rolled for my leadership. Insane heroism for the grotz

Since they were objsec they still held onto the objective.

 Geemoney wrote:
Hey what do you guys think of this combo?

Mogrok's Boss Boyz
Mogrok: Finkin Kap, Shokk Attack Gun, Git Finda, 3 Ammo Runts
Big Mek: Shokk Attack Gun, Git Finda, 3 Ammo Runts
Big Mek: Shokk Attack Gun, Git Finda, 3 Ammo Runts

...

KMK's x5, 5 Ammo Runts

All on a Sky Shield Landing Pad. I would probally back it up with lootaz, tankbustaz, and big units of boyz.

I run a mogroks boss boyz deffdakkastar to some success.

I give all the big-meks shokk attack guns, gitfindas, 2 ammo runts per mek, the warboss has MA and lukky stick all in one unit. Mogrok has finkin cap. This gives the unit slow and purposeful and a model to tank wounds. They have two 35pt grot screens to give cover/bubblewrap. The formation+ grots costs a little under 600pts. I go for master of ambush, if I do not get it sometimes I make this unit one of the outfanking units from very kunnin. With acute senses they can move on from a table edge, usually opponents and drop 3 pie templates. I usually also take a blitz bommer, often that gets the outfflank from acute senses too to come in from enemies table and drop bombs on artillery/etc.

blaktoof wrote:

 Geemoney wrote:
Hey what do you guys think of this combo?

Mogrok's Boss Boyz
Mogrok: Finkin Kap, Shokk Attack Gun, Git Finda, 3 Ammo Runts
Big Mek: Shokk Attack Gun, Git Finda, 3 Ammo Runts
Big Mek: Shokk Attack Gun, Git Finda, 3 Ammo Runts

...

KMK's x5, 5 Ammo Runts

All on a Sky Shield Landing Pad. I would probally back it up with lootaz, tankbustaz, and big units of boyz.

I run a mogroks boss boyz deffdakkastar to some success.

I give all the big-meks shokk attack guns, gitfindas, 2 ammo runts per mek, the warboss has MA and lukky stick all in one unit. Mogrok has finkin cap. This gives the unit slow and purposeful and a model to tank wounds. They have two 35pt grot screens to give cover/bubblewrap. The formation+ grots costs a little under 600pts. I go for master of ambush, if I do not get it sometimes I make this unit one of the outfanking units from very kunnin. With acute senses they can move on from a table edge, usually opponents and drop 3 pie templates. I usually also take a blitz bommer, often that gets the outfflank from acute senses too to come in from enemies table and drop bombs on artillery/etc.

How does one get the legal copy of this formation's Dataslate?

Its in the red WAAAGH sanctus reach book iirc. Love buying a book for 2-3 formations. IIRC there is a gorkanaut formation in there that gives gorkanauts assault bonuses past certain turns. But you must run 3 of them. dont remember if there is another formation for orks in there, it has the ad lance formation. I paid some guy 10 bucks to tear out the ork formations from the book, he wanted it just for the ad lance dataslate.
I dont advocate piracy but the cost of the book just for this dataslate would encourage me to find other means to procure a copy of the dataslate, maybe a .ru site or a mega.nz server.

the mogroks boss boyz formation is great, it+ an ork horde gives a lot of HQ options- just forces your warlord to be a big mek. If you take the ork horde hqs as painboys you can get a warboss, weirdboy, 3 big meks, and 3 painboys into a two source list. That's a lot of hq

And of course I have the other Sanctus Reach book with all the useless formations. I went halvsies just to get a copy of the 7th Ed rules.

The only real bad thing with mogrok formation is you don't get waagh since a big Mek has to be your warlord. However one usually overlooked feature of this formation is that big mek always has the kunnin but brutal trait granting rerolls on failed saves. I give mogrok MA and the watboss with lucky stikk MA and have two durable meat shields.

It's my favorite formation until fw redoes IA8 and gives us a proper 7th edition dredmob.
I'm just hoping for a ramshackle type formation rule on all walkers that ignores glances and downgrades pens to glances on a 5+.
And a mega charga type rule on all walkers that gives them fleet once a game without immobilize on 1.
A few points adjustments and a walker army is competitive again.

Google them and print out


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Pipe, but in all seriousness, I would recommend simply printing out the formations, or writing them down, generally they don't include a huge amount of rules, I mean some are simply grouped units with added Specials. Certainly not something worth shelling out huge cash for, I mean there is what? 3-4 books with formations, GW need to get over themselves if they think we are all going to just buy 3 books just to have the option to run one formation.

gungo wrote:
The only real bad thing with mogrok formation is you don't get waagh since a big Mek has to be your warlord. However one usually overlooked feature of this formation is that big mek always has the kunnin but brutal trait granting rerolls on failed saves. I give mogrok MA and the watboss with lucky stikk MA and have two durable meat shields.

It's my favorite formation until fw redoes IA8 and gives us a proper 7th edition dredmob.
I'm just hoping for a ramshackle type formation rule on all walkers that ignores glances and downgrades pens to glances on a 5+.
And a mega charga type rule on all walkers that gives them fleet once a game without immobilize on 1.
A few points adjustments and a walker army is competitive again.

Yeh the formation does lack a waaagh!, hence why I think its best used for its acute senses and loading up on non-combat units. I mean even lootas arriving from a table edge with a MA mek (from the formation) is going to be deadly, Or a wagon with tankbustas and badrukk, side armour with ArmourPen re-rolls on badrukk with his 3 shot weapon is nasty. Or as someone mentioned, blitza bombas coming on from enemy table edges! ouch.

Mogrok, MA, DFK - roll 2 on strat for hopeful infiltrate?
Warboss, MA DLS
Weirdboy with bustas in an outflanking or infiltrating if you get the trait and first turn (AT re-rolls with some of those psychic powers? ouch), Outflanking flash gitz? I really like the formation, its a great HQ boost and in general I think our HQ's are one of our strongest points in the codex.

-----------------------------
How about;
Mogrok boss boyz
Bully boyz
+ flyer formation?

Roll for infiltrate; if you get it, you infiltrate the bully boyz in a DT, So your fliers (blitza bomba and 2 dakkajets) can use the acute senses, arrive from any table edge, they can go into reserves to restock weapons (does acute senses apply when they return back onto the board?). You have huge zone denial while you can arrive and annihilate the forces stuck in their DZ/attempting to kite the bullyboyz.

If you don't get infiltrate, you can outflank 2 bullyboyz and 1 blitza bomba (probably gets most use out of acute senses and outflank) and using the reserves create hopefully a 3 point crush (1 unit of bullyboyz from each direction - except the rear, maybe and snikrot formation? ).

blaktoof wrote:
I run a mogroks boss boyz deffdakkastar to some success.

I give all the big-meks shokk attack guns, gitfindas, 2 ammo runts per mek, the warboss has MA and lukky stick all in one unit. Mogrok has finkin cap. This gives the unit slow and purposeful and a model to tank wounds. They have two 35pt grot screens to give cover/bubblewrap. The formation+ grots costs a little under 600pts. I go for master of ambush, if I do not get it sometimes I make this unit one of the outfanking units from very kunnin. With acute senses they can move on from a table edge, usually opponents and drop 3 pie templates. I usually also take a blitz bommer, often that gets the outfflank from acute senses too to come in from enemies table and drop bombs on artillery/etc.

New to the game, so I might be missing something... but how does Acute Senses / Outflank let you deploy from the opponent's table edge? In my book it says Outflank has you roll D6 and on 1-2 it's the edge to your left, 3-4 the one on the right, and 5-6 you get to choose left or right. Acute Senses lets you re-roll that. Master of Ambush gives Infiltrate, which gives Outflank when deploying. Very Kunnin' gives Acute Senses and Outlank (and a +1 to seize the initiative).

Were you able to do opponent's edge in an older edition? Or am I missing some other rule?