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i was hoping Kommandos would have options for Tankbusta bombs (like the models show) and shootas for versatility since they are supposed to be Ork elites. They used to have those options back in 3rd edition. As it stands, marine scouts as troops are much more versatile that our elites. But their new deployment rules should make them a bit more useful than last edition.

The best new rules are chargers striking first and the (fairly low) probability of consolidating into combat. Although that is pretty much countered out by the fact that our enemies can voluntarily fall back. I worry I will slog all the way across the table getting shot, then finally charge in only to get a single round of attacks before my enemy breaks off combat and shoots me up with his other units. I think there should have been some sort of morale check associated with falling back so there was at least a risk of taking casualties! (Like attacks of opportunity in RPGs.)

The loss of our ability to field swarms of 25-35 pt fast single-model units will hurt my ability to win Maelstorm games. Usually, I was getting krumped in combat against my brother's marines, but I had a few buggies zooming around the table grabbing objectives to keep me in the game.

Shoota Boyz seem better all around this edition with -1M, +1S and -1pt cost and the ability to run and shoot generally more than offsetting the loss of movement.

Slugga boyz should also be slightly better since the choppa makes up for the lost attack from 2CC in last edition, extra S and Green Tide rule together are broadly similar to getting +1S and A on the charge (new rules are better for big mobs and slightly worse for small, probably). Being able to shoot in melee should be a plus, but against marines, we will be on the worse end of a trade of pistol fire so the pistol rule is a net negative vs our most common enemies, but a buff against armies like Tyranids.

I'm guessing that 75 pts for big mek with KFF doesnt pay out when just protecting boyz, even with two units under the bubble; probably better for walkers and big guns as others have said.

I think vehicle melee will be fun and give us an excuse to use death rollers again.

I'm a bit worried about my bikes with no junk saves. The extra W mostly counters this but against anything that does more than 1 damage.our foes know these are high priority targets and will take them out quickly, with morale really hurting (being expensive, low-durability models in units too small to benefit from Mob Rule after losing a few and too fast to get a buff from a nearby boyz blob without giving up their speed).

Winners: warboss on bike, Tankbustas, regular boyz, Kommandos, maybe battle wagons, maybe orkanauts.

Overall, I still feel like Orks have to be better in this edition (does anyone think we could be worse against marines and Eldar?). I say if you are in doubt, just take lots of barebones shoota boys and warbosses with klaws (mix of some on bikes and on foot). They seem like good value.

And I'm really hoping for that new buggy kit that's been rumored!

I've been slowly accumulating ork kits over the last couple months to get ready for 8th. So far, I've been planning on tankbustas and burnas in trukks, stormboys, deff dreads, and lootas, but I can't figure out what to do with the regular boyz.

Any input on whether shoota boyz or sluggas and choppas will be the better way to run them up the field? Should I be looking at getting more trukks for them too?

I'd like to start assembling and painting things soon, but I don't want to build them all up a way I'll regret later.

General consensus has typically been slugga boyz in trukks and shoota boyz if walking and I think that still holds true in 8th.

I'd go with specialists in trukks. Don't think that boyz are worth the point investment in a ~80 pt transport. When the squad of boyz with a pk nob are ~100.

Am I completely missing the listing for the 'Ard Case, even as a 0 cost option?

 lessthanjeff wrote:
I've been slowly accumulating ork kits over the last couple months to get ready for 8th. So far, I've been planning on tankbustas and burnas in trukks, stormboys, deff dreads, and lootas, but I can't figure out what to do with the regular boyz.

Any input on whether shoota boyz or sluggas and choppas will be the better way to run them up the field? Should I be looking at getting more trukks for them too?

I'd like to start assembling and painting things soon, but I don't want to build them all up a way I'll regret later.

I fail to see how shootaboys on foot are useful.
shootaboys (depending on how you read the rules) lose the choppa which is 1 less atk, cant fire the pistol in combat, and have a bs of 6+ while advancing. They only have 18in range so you have to be really close (almost charge range to use them). At str 4 you are wounding most things on a 4+ or 5+. So hoping your orks stay in that sweet spot just for a 6+ to hit and 4+/5+ to wound is really poor chances. You want your boys to be in combat and keep consolidating into more combats and not stay in a firefight. Your best case scenario is your opponent falls back and keeps trying to shoot your boys and you get to keep charging them every turn.
Whereas the pistol is 1 less shot in range but still 12in range, usable in combat, and the choppa gives 1 more atk. The only way the shoota is better is if you can have a shoota and choppa at the same time which means you cant fire in combat but you gain 6in more range and a double shots, but the loss of the choppa is to big of a loss imho just for a small range increase and another poor shot.

The thing everyone keeps pointing out is that Ork Boyz didn't lose that +1 attack because the choppa gives it.

WHO THE HELL WERE YOU ATTACKING WITH BOYZ!

I mean seriously, Boyz don't do well against CC units, pretty much across the board, so what units were you assaulting that had 2 CC Weapons?

A Standard Space Marine Had 1 attack, now with this change he has....1 attack

Your standard Ork boy had 3 attacks he now has....3 attacks. This isnt a buff but it is a nerf overall. It woul have been wicked to keep that rule so ork boyz could have 5 attacks on the charge.

 JohnU wrote:
Am I completely missing the listing for the 'Ard Case, even as a 0 cost option?

I don't think you're missing it, I think its just a binary on the model itself for free

 koooaei wrote:
I'd go with specialists in trukks. Don't think that boyz are worth the point investment in a ~80 pt transport. When the squad of boyz with a pk nob are ~100.

This
I think tankbustas in trukks is one of our BEST options.

5-6 tankbustas, 1 nob with tankhammer, 2 bomb squigs, in trukk with wrecking ball and rokkit launcha.
this means you need to take 3 casualties before you even take a morale test and then your nob allows you to roll for every model that flees in a failed morale test.
You have decent shooting even in a moving transport when targeting vehicles.
You are fast and threaten every unit in game with a cheap spammable suicide unit.

Your best case scenario is getting the transport into charge range, disembarking, move and charge the transpoirt into an opponents unit, hoping it survives overwatch.
If it gets into combat you prevent your opponents units from overwatching your trukk boys
and if they destroy the trukk it does some damage with the wrecking ball before it has a chance to explode and do even more mortal wounds to your opponent.
Your tankbustas can then shoot and then charge without overwatch and then wreck whatever target your after with your nob doing a heroic sacrifice with its extra atk to do d3 more mortal wounds to your target.
there isn't much in game that can survive that many str8 ap-2 dam3 hits and mortal wounds.
I wouldn't even go for rokkit pistols because I don't expect the tankbusta suicide unit to survive 2 full turns of combat before you get to your next shooting phase.

I think stormboyz is one of our best options as well
they are one of our best anti flyer options as they can assault flyers and do a ton of wounds
They are fast, they benefit from cover, they are great unit to claim objectives
They are cheaper then last edition and a unit of 30 with nob with big choppa will pretty much ignores morale for a while. If you want a unit of 10-15 boss zagstruk is almost required because he makes them virtually fearless and is a beast in combat.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 The Riddle of Steel wrote:
i was hoping Kommandos would have options for Tankbusta bombs (like the models show) and shootas for versatility since they are supposed to be Ork elites. They used to have those options back in 3rd edition. As it stands, marine scouts as troops are much more versatile that our elites. But their new deployment rules should make them a bit more useful than last edition.

The best new rules are chargers striking first and the (fairly low) probability of consolidating into combat. Although that is pretty much countered out by the fact that our enemies can voluntarily fall back. I worry I will slog all the way across the table getting shot, then finally charge in only to get a single round of attacks before my enemy breaks off combat and shoots me up with his other units. I think there should have been some sort of morale check associated with falling back so there was at least a risk of taking casualties! (Like attacks of opportunity in RPGs.)

The loss of our ability to field swarms of 25-35 pt fast single-model units will hurt my ability to win Maelstorm games. Usually, I was getting krumped in combat against my brother's marines, but I had a few buggies zooming around the table grabbing objectives to keep me in the game.

Shoota Boyz seem better all around this edition with -1M, +1S and -1pt cost and the ability to run and shoot generally more than offsetting the loss of movement.

Slugga boyz should also be slightly better since the choppa makes up for the lost attack from 2CC in last edition, extra S and Green Tide rule together are broadly similar to getting +1S and A on the charge (new rules are better for big mobs and slightly worse for small, probably). Being able to shoot in melee should be a plus, but against marines, we will be on the worse end of a trade of pistol fire so the pistol rule is a net negative vs our most common enemies, but a buff against armies like Tyranids.

I'm guessing that 75 pts for big mek with KFF doesnt pay out when just protecting boyz, even with two units under the bubble; probably better for walkers and big guns as others have said.

I think vehicle melee will be fun and give us an excuse to use death rollers again.

I'm a bit worried about my bikes with no junk saves. The extra W mostly counters this but against anything that does more than 1 damage.our foes know these are high priority targets and will take them out quickly, with morale really hurting (being expensive, low-durability models in units too small to benefit from Mob Rule after losing a few and too fast to get a buff from a nearby boyz blob without giving up their speed).

Winners: warboss on bike, Tankbustas, regular boyz, Kommandos, maybe battle wagons, maybe orkanauts.

Overall, I still feel like Orks have to be better in this edition (does anyone think we could be worse against marines and Eldar?). I say if you are in doubt, just take lots of barebones shoota boys and warbosses with klaws (mix of some on bikes and on foot). They seem like good value.

And I'm really hoping for that new buggy kit that's been rumored!

just an fyi single model deffkoptas or buggies are awful for holding objectives this edition as holding objective is simply whomever has the most models near the objective. Our best objective grabbers this edition is Stormboyz. They are cheap, fast, and benefit from cover and you can take a unit of 30 or a small unit of 10-15 with boss zagstruk and be virtually fearless and out number most 10 man units. The fact they can advance and charge without being within 6in of a warboss makes them extremely independent units..

The kff requiring the entire unit within 9in means the only decent kff is on the morkanaut as the model is so huge it will cover most of your deployment zone. (just make sure you place a mek with grot inside to keep repairing 2 wounds a turn.)

Warboss on bike is the best option imho, they are cheap, fast and even more durable than a regular warboss. and the larger model means getting more units within 6in of the waagh is slightly easier.
mega armour is extremely slow, however the good thing is a mega armor warboss will always be within 6in of the waagh to advance d6 each turn to mostly offset the reduced movement.

What I need to know is what FW rules will be for zhardsnark that is the model I expect to really improve orks for this edition. cheap warbikers w nob with a big choppa are even better then last edition, if they can be troops again god help people facing ork lists. It means a unit of 3 warbikers with nob is mostly immune to morale. They would need to lose 2 models and roll a 6 for the nob to fail morale and even then he gets a roll for a chance to not flee.

gungo wrote:

 koooaei wrote:
I'd go with specialists in trukks. Don't think that boyz are worth the point investment in a ~80 pt transport. When the squad of boyz with a pk nob are ~100.

This
I think tankbustas in trukks is one of our BEST options.

5-6 tankbustas, 1 nob with tankhammer, 2 bomb squigs, in trukk with wrecking ball and rokkit launcha.
this means you need to take 3 casualties before you even take a morale test and then your nob allows you to roll for every model that flees in a failed morale test.
You have decent shooting even in a moving transport when targeting vehicles.
You are fast and threaten every unit in game with a cheap spammable suicide unit.

Your best case scenario is getting the transport into charge range, disembarking, move and charge the transpoirt into an opponents unit, hoping it survives overwatch.
If it gets into combat you prevent your opponents units from overwatching your trukk boys
and if they destroy the trukk it does some damage with the wrecking ball before it has a chance to explode and do even more mortal wounds to your opponent.
Your tankbustas can then shoot and then charge without overwatch and then wreck whatever target your after with your nob doing a heroic sacrifice with its extra atk to do d3 more mortal wounds to your target.
there isn't much in game that can survive that many str8 ap-2 dam3 hits and mortal wounds.
I wouldn't even go for rokkit pistols because I don't expect the tankbusta suicide unit to survive 2 full turns of combat before you get to your next shooting phase.

You only make 1 attack with a tankhammer, and the bearer dies, so give it to a normal tankbusta, not the nob.

Also, boss nobz don't have the Keepin' Order rule, so a boss nob won't "save" fleeing boyz from his unit.

Regarding tankbusta bombs, the grenade rule doesn't say we can use them in close combat, so, I guess we can't... right?

EDIT: Up to two tankbustas can replace their rokkit launcha for a tankhammer... the nob doesn't even have the option.

Also, anyone noticed the flash gitz' kaptin has Ld6, unlike all the boss nobz that have Ld7?

Thanks guys! Looks like slugga and choppa is what I should do for my boyz and just run them up the board supported by the other elements I listed. Looking forward to assembling and yelling waagh!

One last request for advice. On my deff dreads, I'm thinking the extra attacks from more claws will be better than a few more missile shots. Not much more expensive and it will let me advance more in the first couple turns to get them in combat faster and then have them do even more damage there. Seems to be the way to go, right? Especially since I want at least two units of tankbustas in trukks so I should have enough rokkits.

gungo wrote:

 lessthanjeff wrote:
I've been slowly accumulating ork kits over the last couple months to get ready for 8th. So far, I've been planning on tankbustas and burnas in trukks, stormboys, deff dreads, and lootas, but I can't figure out what to do with the regular boyz.

Any input on whether shoota boyz or sluggas and choppas will be the better way to run them up the field? Should I be looking at getting more trukks for them too?

I'd like to start assembling and painting things soon, but I don't want to build them all up a way I'll regret later.

I fail to see how shootaboys on foot are useful.
shootaboys (depending on how you read the rules) lose the choppa which is 1 less atk, cant fire the pistol in combat, and have a bs of 6+ while advancing. They only have 18in range so you have to be really close (almost charge range to use them). At str 4 you are wounding most things on a 4+ or 5+. So hoping your orks stay in that sweet spot just for a 6+ to hit and 4+/5+ to wound is really poor chances. You want your boys to be in combat and keep consolidating into more combats and not stay in a firefight. Your best case scenario is your opponent falls back and keeps trying to shoot your boys and you get to keep charging them every turn.
Whereas the pistol is 1 less shot in range but still 12in range, usable in combat, and the choppa gives 1 more atk. The only way the shoota is better is if you can have a shoota and choppa at the same time which means you cant fire in combat but you gain 6in more range and a double shots, but the loss of the choppa is to big of a loss imho just for a small range increase and another poor shot.

I think shoota boyz have gotten better in this edition. They can still walk (1" slower) and shoot and charge, same as last edition. They only get the +1A on the charge if there are 20+. 'Ere We Go is about the same. They have +1S all the time instead of only when charging. But now they also have the option to run and still fire snap shots, an option they didn't have last game. Advancing into shoota range and shooting and hitting on 6's is better than not being able to shoot at all. They are still fairly dangerous to charge due to their 2 shots of Overwatch, 2A and S4 (we hit last when getting charged, just like before). And now they get to save against bolters. Also, their cost went down by 1 point and the new Mob Rule is better, at least with large units. So a big blob of shoota boyz with a Painboy is still an all-around useful unit, in my opinion, to hold objectives, clog up the middle, control the board, absorb enemy shooting and maybe bring down a few enemies through sheer weight of fire.

Only playing some games will us if shoota boyz are any good in the new edition, but they seem indisputably better in this edition than last edition.

Ive never liked Shoota boyz. 30 boyz = 60 shots at only 18in range in an edition where getting that charge is the #1 priority this is just dangerous.

those 60 shots will hit 20times and against T4 wound 10 times and against 3+ armor that 3.33 casualties.

But I would love to see you get all 30 boyz in range at the same time, not going to happen.

Realistically your better off just giving them a choppa and a pistol and letting them get stuck in. But this won't be a boyz edition I think. GW nerfed most of the good stuff for taking boyz, our movement should have gone up since we are a CC army, it went down. Our CC abilities should have gone UP, instead they normalized S4 which is great and all but we lost Furious charge and they changed the 2 CCW rule so we get hosed out of that extra attack (would have been 5attacks on the charge, this ironically benefits Marines more then orks since they can fire those pistols in CC Now)

Im going to be getting some Kommandos and I am wicked happy I have 45 Storm Boyz ready to go.

Getting 30 Boyz in range isn't nearly as hard as used to be now that there's no penalty for bunching up - 9 wide and 3 deep (+3) should do the trick in most cases. Just base-to-base 'em and go home happy.

 Fenris-77 wrote:
Getting 30 Boyz in range isn't nearly as hard as used to be now that there's no penalty for bunching up - 9 wide and 3 deep (+3) should do the trick in most cases. Just base-to-base 'em and go home happy.

With a 5in movement LMAO! good luck. Against a gunline army who isn't deploying on the line its goign to take you 2-3 turns to even get in range to fire.

Meh. Move, advance,Waagh, Psychic jump - you'll get there. I was mostly talking about getting the unit as a whole into range at the same time, which was an issue when they needed to all be 2" apart to avoid pie shells.

I'm a Slugga/Chppa guy at heart anyway. I don't see me investing in a lot of Shoota boys. I was pitching in on the range question, and it is worth noting that big squads of HtH boys have similar issues against gun lines.

so having looked at a few bits;

is it me or has Badrukk become what could be a shooting beast. he's 6 wounds 3+/5++ with 3 ablative wounds. hes got 3 re-rolls a turn, and his gun can be overcharged pretty reliably when you know you can flat out kill 3 wound models. otherwise hes still doing 2 dmg standard.

stick him with a unit of flashgitz in a BW and stick say a shoota boy squad for wounds, and a mek. got a pretty potent shooting platform which is pretty much impervious until the BW pops.

Big mek, kff seems wasted, better on the morka.
SAG - does anyone else think this looks a little nerfed. does it auto hit its d6 shots? otherwise its going to do nothing useful. is that right? surely it autohits d6 yeh?

Zagstrukk seems potent in a blob of stormboyz.

as does snikrot
in fact im starting to think a HQ heavy list with corresponding elite units.
having snikrot basically dsing in with a unit of commandos ready to kill specific targets. or simply to focus fire a certain board side. add in badrukk in a BW with some gitz, who can racce across the board to back up snikrot.

im even really liking the idea of dedicating points to a weirdboy and three grot units that you can teleport right down as tarpits. At bs 4+ (does the adding 1 to hit rolls work in shooting too? for 20+ units) , they will still put out a whole load of shooting, can charge, can shooting in combat, add 1 to hit in combat. for almost no points hikes and have the auto morale squig.

good times to be an Ork

Ashkayel wrote:

gungo wrote:

 koooaei wrote:
I'd go with specialists in trukks. Don't think that boyz are worth the point investment in a ~80 pt transport. When the squad of boyz with a pk nob are ~100.

This
I think tankbustas in trukks is one of our BEST options.

5-6 tankbustas, 1 nob with tankhammer, 2 bomb squigs, in trukk with wrecking ball and rokkit launcha.
this means you need to take 3 casualties before you even take a morale test and then your nob allows you to roll for every model that flees in a failed morale test.
You have decent shooting even in a moving transport when targeting vehicles.
You are fast and threaten every unit in game with a cheap spammable suicide unit.

Your best case scenario is getting the transport into charge range, disembarking, move and charge the transpoirt into an opponents unit, hoping it survives overwatch.
If it gets into combat you prevent your opponents units from overwatching your trukk boys
and if they destroy the trukk it does some damage with the wrecking ball before it has a chance to explode and do even more mortal wounds to your opponent.
Your tankbustas can then shoot and then charge without overwatch and then wreck whatever target your after with your nob doing a heroic sacrifice with its extra atk to do d3 more mortal wounds to your target.
there isn't much in game that can survive that many str8 ap-2 dam3 hits and mortal wounds.
I wouldn't even go for rokkit pistols because I don't expect the tankbusta suicide unit to survive 2 full turns of combat before you get to your next shooting phase.

You only make 1 attack with a tankhammer, and the bearer dies, so give it to a normal tankbusta, not the nob.

Also, boss nobz don't have the Keepin' Order rule, so a boss nob won't "save" fleeing boyz from his unit.

Regarding tankbusta bombs, the grenade rule doesn't say we can use them in close combat, so, I guess we can't... right?

EDIT: Up to two tankbustas can replace their rokkit launcha for a tankhammer... the nob doesn't even have the option.

Also, anyone noticed the flash gitz' kaptin has Ld6, unlike all the boss nobz that have Ld7?

I meant the extra atk means it gets abetter chance to hit in combat to do the d3 mortal wounds however the fact a nob cant take the tankhammer SUCKS.
Also I didn't notice all nobs don't have the Keepin order rules which sucks even more but still doesn't change to much since its farily ineffectual at preventing fleeing models. I guess it makes even more reason to take a nob w waggh banner near a blob of boys.
I didn't say you can use your tankbusta bombs in combat. I was charging in combat to use the tankhammer. Which is still useful BUT as you said not on the nob.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 The Riddle of Steel wrote:

gungo wrote:

 lessthanjeff wrote:
I've been slowly accumulating ork kits over the last couple months to get ready for 8th. So far, I've been planning on tankbustas and burnas in trukks, stormboys, deff dreads, and lootas, but I can't figure out what to do with the regular boyz.

Any input on whether shoota boyz or sluggas and choppas will be the better way to run them up the field? Should I be looking at getting more trukks for them too?

I'd like to start assembling and painting things soon, but I don't want to build them all up a way I'll regret later.

I fail to see how shootaboys on foot are useful.
shootaboys (depending on how you read the rules) lose the choppa which is 1 less atk, cant fire the pistol in combat, and have a bs of 6+ while advancing. They only have 18in range so you have to be really close (almost charge range to use them). At str 4 you are wounding most things on a 4+ or 5+. So hoping your orks stay in that sweet spot just for a 6+ to hit and 4+/5+ to wound is really poor chances. You want your boys to be in combat and keep consolidating into more combats and not stay in a firefight. Your best case scenario is your opponent falls back and keeps trying to shoot your boys and you get to keep charging them every turn.
Whereas the pistol is 1 less shot in range but still 12in range, usable in combat, and the choppa gives 1 more atk. The only way the shoota is better is if you can have a shoota and choppa at the same time which means you cant fire in combat but you gain 6in more range and a double shots, but the loss of the choppa is to big of a loss imho just for a small range increase and another poor shot.

I think shoota boyz have gotten better in this edition. They can still walk (1" slower) and shoot and charge, same as last edition. They only get the +1A on the charge if there are 20+. 'Ere We Go is about the same. They have +1S all the time instead of only when charging. But now they also have the option to run and still fire snap shots, an option they didn't have last game. Advancing into shoota range and shooting and hitting on 6's is better than not being able to shoot at all. They are still fairly dangerous to charge due to their 2 shots of Overwatch, 2A and S4 (we hit last when getting charged, just like before). And now they get to save against bolters. Also, their cost went down by 1 point and the new Mob Rule is better, at least with large units. So a big blob of shoota boyz with a Painboy is still an all-around useful unit, in my opinion, to hold objectives, clog up the middle, control the board, absorb enemy shooting and maybe bring down a few enemies through sheer weight of fire.

Only playing some games will us if shoota boyz are any good in the new edition, but they seem indisputably better in this edition than last edition.

Not saying shoota boys are not better this edition but choppa boys are better imho


Automatically Appended Next Post:

SemperMortis wrote:

 Fenris-77 wrote:
Getting 30 Boyz in range isn't nearly as hard as used to be now that there's no penalty for bunching up - 9 wide and 3 deep (+3) should do the trick in most cases. Just base-to-base 'em and go home happy.

With a 5in movement LMAO! good luck. Against a gunline army who isn't deploying on the line its goign to take you 2-3 turns to even get in range to fire.

remember boys are cheap and not a huge threat you give your opponent other things to worry about and when your boys are in range they will do enough damage to make up for their cheap cost......
Example list I think will work best for us.
Warboss on bike
Zhardsnark (depending on FW rules)
Painboy on bike (even though it has a movement restriction)
Weirdboy

3x manz (using da jump and slowly walking toward thier target at 4".) and honestly these and the weirdboy are optional.

6-7 tankbustas in trukk w wrecking ball, 1 w tankhammer, 2 bomb squigs
X3 of the above (best unit in our dex)

Morkanaut w kff (and a Mek boy w grot inside because guaranteed 2 wounds a turn) (this huge kff covers most of your deployment zone)
30 choppa boy blob bubble wrapping morkanaut
Nob w Waaggh banner following the blob (adds keeping order and extra atk to blob)

3x warbikers with nob w big choppa (if zhardsnark allows warbikers troops for brigade FoC then Spam these x5)

3x deff koptas w bombs

15-20x stormboys w boss zagstruk (because they can assault flyers and our fastest obj grabbers and zags a beatstick that makes them Immune to morale)

Trakks w rokkit and skorchas to harass your enemy w cheap resilient fast and deadly spam.

Kustom mega kannon x4 w lots of gunners

3-4 x5 kommandos with 2x burnas each and boss snikrot

12 command points which you don't need to use for reroll charge. Add as many grots, squigs, ammo runts etc as you can to ignore casualties and morale.

Its very MSU-y but morale is almost no issue in most units and they all do a ton of damage and is very fast and can grab objectives fairly well With decent saves and a lot of bodies with fast characters who can give out multiple AOEs effects. There is not a lot of multi wounds in this list making all those lascannon type weapons all focused on your morkanaut, saving your trukks from being targeted. By the time most of your list gets into melee range meltas/plasma spam are pretty much pointless. Your morkanaut is expensive but provides some turn 1-2 resiliency from shooting but is going to get beat down fast. It is the biggest threat once it gets into shooting range and provides extra resiliency to your army. There are so many bigger priority targets that are quickly in your opponents deployment zone to shoot they will likely ignore your blob of 30 boyz move/advancing each turn that are inside a 5+ invul bubble that it will allow them to get into melee range where they can do a lot of damage. HOWEVER the morkanaut might be a trap because it covers so much of your deployment zone and the kff is only 9" the big problem is that if it explodes which is also 9" it can cause d6 mortal wounds to your entire army that is in range. The idea is to hope it survives at least 1-2 turns and gets the majority of your army away from it before it does a lot of damage. The Only issue I see in the above lise is the special characters all require a different clan to be effective and I need to read what the rules are for this or I may have to use at least 2 FOCS, but I am hoping to do a brigade.

gungo wrote:
I meant the extra atk means it gets abetter chance to hit in combat to do the d3 mortal wounds however the fact a nob cant take the tankhammer SUCKS.
Also I didn't notice all nobs don't have the Keepin order rules which sucks even more but still doesn't change to much since its farily ineffectual at preventing fleeing models. I guess it makes even more reason to take a nob w waggh banner near a blob of boys.
I didn't say you can use your tankbusta bombs in combat. I was charging in combat to use the tankhammer. Which is still useful BUT as you said not on the nob.

No I know you didn't say tankbusta could be used into combat. I just realized that they couldn't, which is a shame.

Now tankbustas NEED bombsquigs/tankhammers/PK or a combination of these to be effective in CC against vehicles. Barebone tankbustas do not get the job done anymore (even with 1 tankbusta bomb per unit they still had better chances in 7th than in 8th).

I'm starting to think that we're going to see less Lascannon equivalents than people were initially talking about. Much of the truly points efficient stuff coming up in the Tactica threads relies on weight of fire, not d6 wounds and S9+. Something to consider as we talk tactics anyway.

 Fenris-77 wrote:
I'm starting to think that we're going to see less Lascannon equivalents than people were initially talking about. Much of the truly points efficient stuff coming up in the Tactica threads relies on weight of fire, not d6 wounds and S9+. Something to consider as we talk tactics anyway.

Plasma spam lots and lots of plasma spam

gungo wrote:

 Fenris-77 wrote:
I'm starting to think that we're going to see less Lascannon equivalents than people were initially talking about. Much of the truly points efficient stuff coming up in the Tactica threads relies on weight of fire, not d6 wounds and S9+. Something to consider as we talk tactics anyway.

Plasma spam lots and lots of plasma spam

Anything that throws a lot of dice with reasonable range (for the points) fits the bill. And yeah, plasma. Autocannons will probably see a lot of table time in armies that can take them too, same with Assault Cannons. The new wound table and save mechanics mitigate for weight of dice in a lot of instances. Being able to ding 2+ saves and Av 14 isn't a problem any more and that, combines with the new vehicle price changes, really alters the playing field, efficiency-wise.

Be sure to laugh really loud when those marine players who've never even heard of a brick of dice before start asking to borrow some of yours.

It's probably time to take regular nobz off the shelf now. With trukks going up in price and nobz effectively gaining 'eavy armor for no cost. In an edition where 4+ armor matters. They still hit extremely hard and can even pack some shooting.

Meganobz are very expensive indeed. A meganob with a klaw and a kombi-shoota is 54 pts. Yikes. And i have 15 manz bought at the end of 7-th. I need to playtest them but i've got a feeling it's regular nob'z time to occupy those trukks.

On the other hand, you can now take both. Anywayz, all i wanted to say is that nobz aren't terrible no more taking into consideration their price drop and the price increase of almost everything else. And their power stabbas are amazing. ap-2 for 3 pts. Yes, please. They'll obliterate armor all day long. They might even go without a power klaw. Leave tankhunting to tankbustas and mek gunz.

Oh, and bubblechukkas are hilarious.

Couple of things about meks:

Grot oiler only works once per game, but doesn't get removed when he does his thing, so he still acts as a bullet-catcher for the mek.

You have to be on the table to repair, so you need to disembark at the start of your movement phase, repair at the end of the movement phase and then climb back onboard in your next turn. This isn't too difficult, as you can climb out of the front, move the transport forward and then have two turns worth of movement to reach the back of the wagon. It does mean that you are only going to be able to shoot every other turn though.

What are people's thoughts on grots? Obviously a thirty point unit for objective camping is nice, but they also seem to be one of the few units where it's tempting to field the maximum number of models. That 'surprisingly dangerous' rule looks like it has potential and the bigger your unit the smaller the fraction you need to feed to the squighound.

These indexes hurt my brain, who thought it was a good idea to have points values 50 pages away from the options?

Truk boys might still be a think depending on how well you can deliver them. They create alot of chaos when they unpack and charge that is if the can get there. Needs playtesting.

sad bout buggies, bikers, and the min points cost of BW and MANz

 Dr.Duck wrote:
These indexes hurt my brain, who thought it was a good idea to have points values 50 pages away from the options?z

I think in theory it's for when you basically know the rules by heart and just want a simple page with all the points values on it for list building.

Still no reason to not also have points values on the units though.

 GreatGranpapy wrote:

 Dr.Duck wrote:
These indexes hurt my brain, who thought it was a good idea to have points values 50 pages away from the options?z

I think in theory it's for when you basically know the rules by heart and just want a simple page with all the points values on it for list building.

Still no reason to not also have points values on the units though.

Post its fix this but cant get rid of my headache till I get a hard copy

 Perfect Organism wrote:


What are people's thoughts on grots? Obviously a thirty point unit for objective camping is nice, but they also seem to be one of the few units where it's tempting to field the maximum number of models. That 'surprisingly dangerous' rule looks like it has potential and the bigger your unit the smaller the fraction you need to feed to the squighound.

Problem is if you're going for 30 grots, you're gonna want to shell out for a Runtherd and by then you're at 116 points or almost 20 Boyz or 15 Stormboyz. The former would be better for sitting on an objective on your side and the latter is better at going for objectives elsewhere. I don't see much need for anything besides the basic 10 grots for filling out Brigade slots or manning a fortification gun.

SemperMortis wrote:

A Standard Space Marine Had 1 attack, now with this change he has....1 attack

Your standard Ork boy had 3 attacks he now has....3 attacks. This isnt a buff but it is a nerf overall. It woul have been wicked to keep that rule so ork boyz could have 5 attacks on the charge.

Your "logic" is simply amazing, Orkish almost... Something stayed the same (which you have been arguing, in other threads probably this one too, that it went down)

Keep the rule... Hmmm, 5 attacks on charge, but really it was only three since you lost them "by the droves" (your quote) due to Beakers having higher Init.

Meanwhile, if you trigger Green Tide you get, <gasp> +1 Atk for every model, so that would be 4 Atk, and a WeirdBoy can give a unit +1 Atk per model, so that's 5 Atk for one unit for a turn. Da Jump same unit, enjoy... Don't want to Jump it, Warboss and Nob with Waaagh Banner charge after advance and enjoy your WS 2+, attacking first most the time, 100+ die...