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 office_waaagh wrote:

 Dr.Duck wrote:

Also how is your math working on the meganobz with the lascannon?

Meganobz have a 2+ and 3 wounds, a lascannon has AP -3 and does D6 damage. So it needs to roll a 3+ (a 2/3 chance) to do enough wounds to kill a meganob, and then he gets a 5+ save (a 2/3 chance of failing), so 2/3*2/3 = 4/9 chance of killing a meganob.

Counting the chance to hit (at 3+ BS) and to wound too it only comes to about a 25% chance to lose one from a single shot.

 koooaei wrote:
What's the point of a blitza bomber? Does anyone other than orks use vehicle squads that often?

I believe it deals mortal wounds to any type of model, now, not just vehicles. But yeah, last edition it was pretty meh.

doktor_g wrote:I still dont know how allies work... or do they?

Apparently they don't, unless you are the Imperium, Chaos or Eldar.

koooaei wrote:What's the point of a blitza bomber? Does anyone other than orks use vehicle squads that often?

It actually seems to be as good at killing infantry as the burna bomma.

gungo wrote:
Any space marine unit with storm shields and an apothecary or Thunderwolves will be 3++, 6+ fnp, and t5 multi wound. They are expensive and no where near as durable as last ed but still hard to deal with without mortal wounds.

Kinda dissapointed with ork selection in the forgeworld index. No mega dread, no halftrak, no gunwagon. But we do have zhardsnark, buzzgrob, both squiggoths, killtank, chinork. Hopefully the big Mek stompa options exist.

can you link the FW index stuff? honestly i dont see why they couldn't have ported over most of it. i mean there are even models for the meka-dred etc. As jidmah pointed out, its mostly just a formula followed with any 'flavour' tweaks they want to add. hopefully in the future they may, but i suppose its unlikely if they havent already.

i was really hoping the custom stompa stuff was still available. i mean there are so many flavour of knights and such, yet the stompa is all predefined. ive magnetised mine in the hopes the custom options become available.

SAG could be good for shooting expensive 3++, 6+ Fnp units. its what, 2d6 hits, ~str7, so wounding on 3s mostly, ap-5, oh no wait the mortal wounds are only if its str 11 above. Hmm.
5x lobbas, 150 points for 5d6 hits. so whats that on average 17.5 hits, at str5, so 4+ to wound, thats like 8 wounds, 2.5 after saves.
so considering you can fire from out of LOS from basically the first turn, you have a chance of doing considerable number of wounds with the 5d6 and all for 150 points. lobbas in general seem pretty good. they will likely wound most units on a 4+ or a 3+ at str 5 and as they did before, they simply win through weight of fire.

 Perfect Organism wrote:

koooaei wrote:What's the point of a blitza bomber? Does anyone other than orks use vehicle squads that often?

It actually seems to be as good at killing infantry as the burna bomma.

They both deal mortal wounds on 5+. Blitza bomber adds +1 vs vehicles, burna bomber vs infantry. The thing is it's not likely we'll meet vehicle squadrons for a blitza bomber to be effective.

Never liked the permutations of the DakkaJet anyhow.

 doktor_g wrote:
Does anyone think that command points are THAT great?

I still dont know how allies work... or do they?

Solar Shock wrote:

gungo wrote:
Any space marine unit with storm shields and an apothecary or Thunderwolves will be 3++, 6+ fnp, and t5 multi wound. They are expensive and no where near as durable as last ed but still hard to deal with without mortal wounds.

Kinda dissapointed with ork selection in the forgeworld index. No mega dread, no halftrak, no gunwagon. But we do have zhardsnark, buzzgrob, both squiggoths, killtank, chinork. Hopefully the big Mek stompa options exist.

can you link the FW index stuff? honestly i dont see why they couldn't have ported over most of it. i mean there are even models for the meka-dred etc. As jidmah pointed out, its mostly just a formula followed with any 'flavour' tweaks they want to add. hopefully in the future they may, but i suppose its unlikely if they havent already.

i was really hoping the custom stompa stuff was still available. i mean there are so many flavour of knights and such, yet the stompa is all predefined. ive magnetised mine in the hopes the custom options become available.

SAG could be good for shooting expensive 3++, 6+ Fnp units. its what, 2d6 hits, ~str7, so wounding on 3s mostly, ap-5, oh no wait the mortal wounds are only if its str 11 above. Hmm.
5x lobbas, 150 points for 5d6 hits. so whats that on average 17.5 hits, at str5, so 4+ to wound, thats like 8 wounds, 2.5 after saves.
so considering you can fire from out of LOS from basically the first turn, you have a chance of doing considerable number of wounds with the 5d6 and all for 150 points. lobbas in general seem pretty good. they will likely wound most units on a 4+ or a 3+ at str 5 and as they did before, they simply win through weight of fire.

https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-NO/Imperial-Armour-Index-xenos-2017
Some of the stuff you are worried about is there and some is not. The meka dread and kustom stompa are listed but I can't tell you which weapon options still exist. It's just odd cause the mega dread is still sold.... unless they just combined the 2 dreads into one in the book.

Surprised Zhadsnark is still there. Wonder if they'll change the generic biker boss to be his model.

 JohnU wrote:
Surprised Zhadsnark is still there. Wonder if they'll change the generic biker boss to be his model.

The warboss on bike w powerklaw was always his model. They did the same with some other named FW figures.

 doktor_g wrote:
Does anyone think that command points are THAT great?

I still dont know how allies work... or do they?

Your entire army must share a faction keyword in matched play (both basic and advanced)...so basically allies are out, except for "imperium" and "chaos". Each detachment must also share a keyword, but they do not need to be the same keyword as the army (such as an "imperium" army hosing "salamanders" and "guard" detachments.)

Orks are on their own, even more so than before.

Some are complaining that "imperium" allies are to synergistic, but I'm not sure in practice it will make that much of a difference. Perhaps IG artillery with marines...we'll know soon enough.

Today I played my first 8th edition game against a quite standard, infantry heavy Ultramarine army.
Not a battle report, but just some first impressions:

- Killa Kans were surprisingly good. They could not do really much harm, but all of them survived the game. That would never have happened before. 3+ save and 5 woulds seemed decent.
- Boyz were cool. Quite the same as before, but change of assault weapons rule seemed a good benefit. We can move, advance, snap shot because of the assault weapon rule, then charge if there is a warboss nearby in any turn. Therefore I did not feel any problems with the 5" basic movement stat. Don't forget that now advancement (running) happens in the movement phase. I teleported them further in the psychic phase with 'da jump' but they could not charge because of the previous advancement (lame mistake, there was no warboss nearby behind enemy lines).
- Meganobz were just evil. Hitting first after the charge seemed a great advantage. Disembark from the trukk, move (7" total) then charge with a reroll is fine.
- even gretchin could survive well in cover against ap0 fire with 5+ save. However their LD 4 could be the lowest in the whole game I guess.
- started with 2 trukks and both survived (2-3 wounds left), despite the opponent having about 3-4 lascannons on the field. Their 4+ save is absoultely not enough as it attract high AP fire, but the ramshackle rule once came in handy (on a 6 you can turn a D6 wound 1 - much better then the 7th version)
- started lootas in the trukk, that seemed an usable mobile fortress strategy.
- watch out for scout snipers. My KFF mek suffered from their 'can target characters' shots.
- our basic shooting weapons are junk as they used to be (which is fine for orks) because of their AP being 0. Shot a lot on scout snipers, who have a default save of 4+, becoming 3+ in cover, then camo cloaks making it 2+. Some AP would have come in handy, I am not used to fire heavy weapons on scouts, but I needed to (expecting camo cloak sniper scouts to become an auto include unit in most marine armies).

I noticed that the Warbuggy and Wartrakk are slightly different units this time around. It used to be that a Wartrakk would allow you to reroll dangerous terrain tests to avoid becoming immobilized. Those mechanics no longer exist. Both now have the same weapons and abilities, however their base stats are slightly different: Wartrakks have M12" W6 @ 49pts ea, while Warbuggies have M14" W5 @ 44pts ea. So Wartrakks trade 2" of movement for another Wound, but they cost 5pts more. Huh. Now I'm imagining a squadron of cheap vehicles charging into melee, guns blazing. Sweet.

Killa Kanz look better than they were in 7th. And like Trukks, once they reach 0 wounds they explode on a roll of a 6, and cause mortal wounds to units within 3". Hilarious!

Big Gunz and Mek Gunz now have max unit size of 6. Gotta make some more.

I'm excited!

gungo wrote:

https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-NO/Imperial-Armour-Index-xenos-2017
Some of the stuff you are worried about is there and some is not. The meka dread and kustom stompa are listed but I can't tell you which weapon options still exist. It's just odd cause the mega dread is still sold.... unless they just combined the 2 dreads into one in the book.

so had a quick look, there are 13 on the list and in the description it says there are 19 datasheets for orks, so there are 6 extra not on that list. this makes me think they will have the other variants not in the contents list.
so gunwagon, junka, Buzzgob's stompa, what else? spanner boyz? cyborkz? i cant se those two falling under a catagory in the list. maybe the other dread.
But hey! with 19 datasheets thats a great start. phew.

yeh buggies could be great for harassment and overwatch eating! skorcha just rolls up and flames the unit, charges and the boyz can get stuck in.

another thing ive realised, now that we can choose where we take boyz away from.... taking from the front to prevent a charge would be hilarious.

Listening to the Frontline Gaming twitch stream. Reece is pretty high on Orks.

Took down some notes on his game play opinions.

any more details than that provided? Seems vague, even if I want him to be correct

 davou wrote:
any more details than that provided? Seems vague, even if I want him to be correct

I have a longer list of notes I'll post in their thread, but they're hitting every single army, plus the rule book so they're going fast.

He obviously wanted to take more about Orks though. He was pretty excited.

He said games against Tau were always close either way. Liked all the Ork stuff, didn't really have anything negative to say.

They stressed multiple times that buff auras are really important for all armies. Screening units are also really important.

Eldar got the nerf bat, but DE and Harlequins got major buffs (They were both raving about Harles) so I'd expect Ynnari with DE and Harlequins to be the army du jour.

 JohnU wrote:

 davou wrote:
any more details than that provided? Seems vague, even if I want him to be correct

I have a longer list of notes I'll post in their thread, but they're hitting every single army, plus the rule book so they're going fast.

He obviously wanted to take more about Orks though. He was pretty excited.

He said games against Tau were always close either way. Liked all the Ork stuff, didn't really have anything negative to say.

They stressed multiple times that buff auras are really important for all armies. Screening units are also really important.

Eldar got the nerf bat, but DE and Harlequins got major buffs (They were both raving about Harles) so I'd expect Ynnari with DE and Harlequins to be the army du jour.

Lol Eldar elitists get taken down a few pegs.

Glad to hear bout FW, this as always been a big window and opportunity for orks.

If I were to place models like big gunz and buggies on bases, what size would they be? Can I put lobbas on 40mm?

Both Frankie and Reece put Orks in their Top 5 single factions.

...and Eldar in the bottom 5

I just had a game of 8th ed with all the leaked rules with a friend through Vassal. The new mob rule really makes a difference with big blobz of boyz since not having a Ld cap anymore makes it so that even if half the squad is wiped out (which is easier said then done) you have a good chance of only a few booking it. Even less if you have a boss or Nobz squad hanging around. I had a very depleted squad of tankbustas stick in the fight because they were nearby an almost full strength boyz squad.

Nobz with WAAAGH! Banners are great, since hitting on 2's with so many attacks with big mobz of boyz (and negating the -1 to hit penalty from Nobz with Power Klawz) makes it so that when the Green Tide hits, its like a wrecking ball.

I can verify that vehicles are much more durable, even if other things can wound it. The fact you have a save at all makes it so that only really dedicated anti-tank weapons can reliably do wounds and even then it doesn't guarantee that they're out of the fight. My list had only 2 trukks and they lasted until T3 which is a huge difference compared to their one turn survival rate in the previous edition (especially since my list wasn't saturated with vehicles).

Tankbustas and rokkit launchas in general are really solid, doing a flat 3 damage with each wound makes rokkits truly something to fear and makes up for our low BS.

Nobz squads are really dead killy with the buffs and with WAAAGH! Banner support can murderate other elite units and others besides. The cheapest thing is having a 10 wound buffer for having an ammo runt for each nob, making them viable footsloggers. The fact that you can also give them all Kombi-skorchas makes them extremely nasty do deal with outside of shooting them at range (I wiped out 5 CSM termies through overwatch).

Overall, I'm pretty damn impressed with Orks and 8th ed so far.

 JohnU wrote:
Listening to the Frontline Gaming twitch stream. Reece is pretty high on Orks.

Took down some notes on his game play opinions.

Spoiler:

Orks good stuff: Jumping Shoota Boys, Meganobz or Gitz, Bosses, Big Meks, Nauts, Burnas, Tankbustas, Big Choppas, Stormboyz, Rokkits.
Boyz do a lot more damage. Trukks and sloggers both work. Nob squads way better
Dakkajet one of the best flyers.
Stompa is worth the points.
Buggies/Skorchas way better.
Wagon w/ rolla good in combat, hard to kill even w/o 'ard case.
Put skorchas on your walkers. Put wrecking balls on your trukks.

Yeah im wondering if Reece is getting paid by GW to push that out. A 900pt Stompa whose blast weapons now suck considerably more...yeah nope.

SemperMortis wrote:


Yeah im wondering if Reece is getting paid by GW to push that out. A 900pt Stompa whose blast weapons now suck considerably more...yeah nope.

The dude above you who posted that ork trukks work well and boys are good, is he being paid by GW too?

 JohnU wrote:
Both Frankie and Reece put Orks in their Top 5 single factions.

...and Eldar in the bottom 5

Link to this podcast or whatever it is?

 Dr.Duck wrote:

 JohnU wrote:
Both Frankie and Reece put Orks in their Top 5 single factions.

...and Eldar in the bottom 5

Link to this podcast or whatever it is?

https://www.twitch.tv/frontlinegaming_tv

There should be a replay up later.

It's coming up to 6 hours runtime at this point though, FYI.

Notes I took on their gameplay opinions are up here: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/725340.page

They said Orks were Top 5, but they had a lot of trouble coming up with a Top 10 list, most armies seem fairly close

Reece said Orks and Nids were the two armies he played with the most during testing.

 koooaei wrote:

 Perfect Organism wrote:

koooaei wrote:What's the point of a blitza bomber? Does anyone other than orks use vehicle squads that often?

It actually seems to be as good at killing infantry as the burna bomma.

They both deal mortal wounds on 5+. Blitza bomber adds +1 vs vehicles, burna bomber vs infantry. The thing is it's not likely we'll meet vehicle squadrons for a blitza bomber to be effective.

The Boom Bomb does mortal wounds on a 4+, regardless if it's infantry, vehicles or monsters. The Burna Bomb does mortal wound on a 5+ and adds 1 to the roll if it is targeting infantry. So, effectively they are the same against infantry.

The Boomb Bomb gets to roll three dice instead of one against vehicles and monsters. This could make it extremely effective against units of vehicles, but like you said they don't seem to be that common outside of Orks. Really, I think the purpose is to make it so a Boom Bomb can be dropped on a single model and still more than likely do a mortal wound. That might not be worth it compared to bombing infantry most of the time, but in edge cases it could be used to drop a degrading Vehicle or Monster below a certain threshold or to kill off a non-degrading monster like a Carnifex before it can charge and strike first.

Right now a lot of armies can buy "squadrons" of vehicles or monsters but unfortunately for the Blitza-Bommer they almost always get to split up after initial deployment. I did a quick run-through looking for units of vehicles or monsters, but I might have missed some stuff:
Imperial Guard: Sentinels & Armored Sentinels
Gensetealer Cults: Sentinels & Armored Sentinels
Eldar: Vypers, War Walkers
Dark Eldar: Talos, Cronos
Harlequins: Voidweavers
Necrons: Canoptek Spyders
AdMech: Sydonian Dragoons, Ironstrider Ballistarii, Kastelan Robots
Sisters of Battle: Penitent Engines
Space Marines: Land Speeders
Orks: Deffkoptas, Wartrakks, Skorchas, Warbuggies, Big Gunz, Mek Gunz, Killa Kans
Tau: TX4 Pirhanas

So Blitza-Bommers will probably have some juicy vehicle units when facing AdMech or other Orks, no such luck against Chaos or Tyranids and *sometimes* against everyone else. I'm guessing when Forgeworld comes out with their Renegades and DKoK rules their artillery will be in units like ours is. Kind of surpirising that the armies most assosciated with big monsters, Tyranids and Chaos, heave no units of them as far as I can tell. Also, if they ever decide to give the smaller Battlesuits the Vehicle keyword Blitza-Bommers will really make them miserable.

To me Boom Bombs seem like a far more versatile choice than Burna Bombs. After paying for required weapons the Burna-Bommer is 116 and the Blitza-Bommer is 114. It's worth noting that the Burna-Bommer has a Twin Big Shoota while the Blitza-Bommer only has a single Big Shoota. Since they have Grot Gunners for their Big Shootas this actually matters a bit. The Burna-Bommer can take Skorcha Missiles (no limit to the number as far as I can see) but they're 20 points each. Since they're expensive and suffer from Orky BS they don't seem worth the points, but I could be wrong about that. The Burna Bommer is also more likely to explode when shot down. Maybe the Burna-Bommer will be good as some sort of crazy anti-infantry Alpha Strike kamikaze jet?

SemperMortis wrote:
Yeah im wondering if Reece is getting paid by GW to push that out. A 900pt Stompa whose blast weapons now suck considerably more...yeah nope.

This reminds me of anti-vaxxer conspiracy theory logic. "The person with evidence who disagrees with the opinion for which I have no evidence is clearly being paid off by the company."

Nobz and Flash Gitz look incredibly good with ammo runts to take wounds for them, I can see nobz with lots of buffs stacked on them absolutely wrecking things in assaults. Access to "power stabbas" (*eyeroll*) for cheap AP-2 will be absolutely ferocious to a lot of things.

 JohnU wrote:
Both Frankie and Reece put Orks in their Top 5 single factions.

...and Eldar in the bottom 5

This made my day.

If only Tau would join Eldar...

 JimOnMars wrote:

 JohnU wrote:
Both Frankie and Reece put Orks in their Top 5 single factions.

...and Eldar in the bottom 5

This made my day.

If only Tau would join Eldar...

It's funny they said Eldar right off the bat when asked that question, but then had to think it a bit about the others (and I think they only named 4), but honestly it sounds like there isn't a lot of spread between armies as far as power level goes.

The main issue they seemed to have with Craftworld was that they strong, but expensive and fragile.

Harlequins, Dark Eldar, Nids, and Crons sound like they'll be a handful.

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/149230276

Orks start at 3 hours 8 mins 45 seconds

 office_waaagh wrote:

SemperMortis wrote:
Yeah im wondering if Reece is getting paid by GW to push that out. A 900pt Stompa whose blast weapons now suck considerably more...yeah nope.

This reminds me of anti-vaxxer conspiracy theory logic. "The person with evidence who disagrees with the opinion for which I have no evidence is clearly being paid off by the company."

Nobz and Flash Gitz look incredibly good with ammo runts to take wounds for them, I can see nobz with lots of buffs stacked on them absolutely wrecking things in assaults. Access to "power stabbas" (*eyeroll*) for cheap AP-2 will be absolutely ferocious to a lot of things.

Well lets take a look then shall we?

Stompa Rose in cost to 900. So right off the bat its 130pts more expensive. It is T8 with 40wounds and a 3+ save so its tougher to kill but lets take a look at the dakka aspect of it.

Deff Kannon went from S10 AP1 Primary weapon 7' blast to S10 -4AP D D6 and heres the kicker D6 shots, 2D6 when shooting at units of 10+. At BS2 that D6 will hit a grand total of 1 time on average.....on 2D6 against big units you will likely hit 2 times Whoopee.

Supa Rokkitz went from S8 AP3 Heavy 1 Large blast to S8 -2AP D D6 and again the kicker D3 shots. Which will average .6 hits a turn Utter trash.

And finally the cherry on top. the Stompa CANT STOMP.

But yeah, going up in price and losing what little dakka the thing had is great and im sure Reece knows what he is talking about.

So the Mekaniak ability to repair does not work if the Mek is embarked upon a transport, right? That makes repairing a Battle Wagon or Stompa a little more challenging.