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 Dakka Flakka Flame wrote:
So the Mekaniak ability to repair does not work if the Mek is embarked upon a transport, right? That makes repairing a Battle Wagon or Stompa a little more challenging.

Wow it does seem that way, dang.

Normally I would be hopeful that the FAQ would fix this but the FAQs from seventh didn't fix obvious RAW failures.

We probably have to wait a year for this fix at least...

SemperMortis wrote:

 office_waaagh wrote:

SemperMortis wrote:
Yeah im wondering if Reece is getting paid by GW to push that out. A 900pt Stompa whose blast weapons now suck considerably more...yeah nope.

This reminds me of anti-vaxxer conspiracy theory logic. "The person with evidence who disagrees with the opinion for which I have no evidence is clearly being paid off by the company."

Nobz and Flash Gitz look incredibly good with ammo runts to take wounds for them, I can see nobz with lots of buffs stacked on them absolutely wrecking things in assaults. Access to "power stabbas" (*eyeroll*) for cheap AP-2 will be absolutely ferocious to a lot of things.

Well lets take a look then shall we?

Stompa Rose in cost to 900. So right off the bat its 130pts more expensive. It is T8 with 40wounds and a 3+ save so its tougher to kill but lets take a look at the dakka aspect of it.

Deff Kannon went from S10 AP1 Primary weapon 7' blast to S10 -4AP D D6 and heres the kicker D6 shots, 2D6 when shooting at units of 10+. At BS2 that D6 will hit a grand total of 1 time on average.....on 2D6 against big units you will likely hit 2 times Whoopee.

Supa Rokkitz went from S8 AP3 Heavy 1 Large blast to S8 -2AP D D6 and again the kicker D3 shots. Which will average .6 hits a turn Utter trash.

And finally the cherry on top. the Stompa CANT STOMP.

But yeah, going up in price and losing what little dakka the thing had is great and im sure Reece knows what he is talking about.

If your gonna gak on someone who HAS played the game, at least get your own maths right man.... You made at least two mistakes in your example there and you didn't even write out any actual maths

SemperMortis wrote:

 office_waaagh wrote:

SemperMortis wrote:
Yeah im wondering if Reece is getting paid by GW to push that out. A 900pt Stompa whose blast weapons now suck considerably more...yeah nope.

This reminds me of anti-vaxxer conspiracy theory logic. "The person with evidence who disagrees with the opinion for which I have no evidence is clearly being paid off by the company."

Nobz and Flash Gitz look incredibly good with ammo runts to take wounds for them, I can see nobz with lots of buffs stacked on them absolutely wrecking things in assaults. Access to "power stabbas" (*eyeroll*) for cheap AP-2 will be absolutely ferocious to a lot of things.

Well lets take a look then shall we?

Stompa Rose in cost to 900. So right off the bat its 130pts more expensive. It is T8 with 40wounds and a 3+ save so its tougher to kill but lets take a look at the dakka aspect of it.

Deff Kannon went from S10 AP1 Primary weapon 7' blast to S10 -4AP D D6 and heres the kicker D6 shots, 2D6 when shooting at units of 10+. At BS2 that D6 will hit a grand total of 1 time on average.....on 2D6 against big units you will likely hit 2 times Whoopee.

Supa Rokkitz went from S8 AP3 Heavy 1 Large blast to S8 -2AP D D6 and again the kicker D3 shots. Which will average .6 hits a turn Utter trash.

And finally the cherry on top. the Stompa CANT STOMP.

But yeah, going up in price and losing what little dakka the thing had is great and im sure Reece knows what he is talking about.

You really have to stop comparing things to previous edition. You're wasting your time. It's a new game.

 davou wrote:

SemperMortis wrote:

 office_waaagh wrote:

SemperMortis wrote:
Yeah im wondering if Reece is getting paid by GW to push that out. A 900pt Stompa whose blast weapons now suck considerably more...yeah nope.

D6 shots, 2D6 when shooting at units of 10+. At BS2 that D6 will hit a grand total of 1 time on average.....on 2D6 against big units you will likely hit 2 times Whoopee.

If your gonna gak on someone who HAS played the game, at least get your own maths right man.... You made at least two mistakes in your example there and you didn't even write out any actual maths

d6 * 1/3 = 1.16 hits
2d6 * 1/3 = 2.33 hits

So yea, it's accurate enough

NamelessBard wrote:


You really have to stop comparing things to previous edition. You're wasting your time. It's a new game.

Yup its a new game and I am pointing out how a unit from the last edition got NERFED and still went up in price drastically. You guys sitting here saying "its a new edition you cant compare the two" or "wait until you play a few times" Mathhammer still functions just as well as before and guess what? it shows a Stompa sucks.

SemperMortis wrote:

Well lets take a look then shall we?

Stompa Rose in cost to 900. So right off the bat its 130pts more expensive. It is T8 with 40wounds and a 3+ save so its tougher to kill but lets take a look at the dakka aspect of it.

Deff Kannon went from S10 AP1 Primary weapon 7' blast to S10 -4AP D D6 and heres the kicker D6 shots, 2D6 when shooting at units of 10+. At BS2 that D6 will hit a grand total of 1 time on average.....on 2D6 against big units you will likely hit 2 times Whoopee.

Supa Rokkitz went from S8 AP3 Heavy 1 Large blast to S8 -2AP D D6 and again the kicker D3 shots. Which will average .6 hits a turn Utter trash.

And finally the cherry on top. the Stompa CANT STOMP.

But yeah, going up in price and losing what little dakka the thing had is great and im sure Reece knows what he is talking about.

Well, yeah, I mean, it's probably reasonable to assume that Reece Robbins knows what he's talking about over any of us, since he's playtested the game and the units pretty extensively and none of us have.

Obviously, it's meaningless to say it "went up in points", that's like coming to Canada and saying something "went up in price" when you crossed the border because it costs more Canadian dollars than it does American dollars. The rules have changed, it would be strange if points hadn't changed. I mean, the Stompa "went up", what...20% when you include all its weapons? That's hardly the biggest increase in the army list, battlewagons "went up" almost 50% and trukks "went up" more than 100%. But sure, let's compare them just for kicks.

It's T8 W40 Sv3+ and there are no longer D weapons in the game, so it's gained a great deal of survivability.

The demise of access points means it can deposit a unit of twenty models 3" directly in front of it which can then move and assault.

Sure, the deff kannon will hit on average 2.333 times, but it does D6 damage per wound, so it's actually dealing an average of 6-7 wounds per turn against big multi-wound units (admittedly unlikely) or ~3 wounds on smaller units.

Supa rokkits are less effective, but they're also 0 points, so by your logic they "went down" and are now infinitely points efficient. And before you counter that their cost is already included in the Stompa's cost, you can take two more of them as 0 point upgrades.

It lost stomps but so did pretty well everyone else, and instead it gets to make 12 S10 AP-2 D3 damage attacks hitting on 3+.

Now, I'm not saying that it'll be fantastic. I'm trying to suggest, as gently as possible, that your pessimism may not be objectively justified, and that your impugning of the morals and motives of those who disagree with you is misguided and unhelpful. Everything has a new points cost now to account for its effectiveness under the new rules (including both survivability and expected damage output against various targets) relative to everything else. Your argument is not vacuous or specious by any means, but it is not as airtight or mathematically sound as you seem to think it is and certainly not enough to justify discounting the opinion of the playtesters who have actual experience with the unit and rules.

SemperMortis wrote:

NamelessBard wrote:


You really have to stop comparing things to previous edition. You're wasting your time. It's a new game.

Yup its a new game and I am pointing out how a unit from the last edition got NERFED and still went up in price drastically. You guys sitting here saying "its a new edition you cant compare the two" or "wait until you play a few times" Mathhammer still functions just as well as before and guess what? it shows a Stompa sucks.

Have to agree. All AOEs got hit pretty hard and the stompa probably crutched pretty hard on it. Ya its a pain in the ass to remove from the table but at that price point: it doesnt have a prayer to earn its points back by killing stuff (maybe in compbat if yo opponent is all in on CC), It also takes up half the list so whats gonna be worth transporting in it?

Im bit split on buggies atm. Loved them last edition cause they were AV10 2 wound twin linked rockets that moved 12 inches a turn FOR 25 POINTS. But now they are triple the points almost. Ya they are "harder to kill" and have 2 shots instead of 1 TW but meh....
Any thoughts?

SemperMortis wrote:

NamelessBard wrote:


You really have to stop comparing things to previous edition. You're wasting your time. It's a new game.

Yup its a new game and I am pointing out how a unit from the last edition got NERFED and still went up in price drastically. You guys sitting here saying "its a new edition you cant compare the two" or "wait until you play a few times" Mathhammer still functions just as well as before and guess what? it shows a Stompa sucks.

Except new stompa is never going to fight old stompa. Also new stompa is never going to fight old wraith knights, old imperial knights, old riptides or old assault terminators.

You are both right in a way. I agree that the new stompa is weaker due to the loss of its blast weapons, however you need to measure whether it's points are worth it in this edition, not in last edition.

It's basically the same fallacy as the guy crying over trukks being more expensive than the boyz inside them - almost every battle report coming in has trukks surviving up to turn three or more, while taking overwatch for the boyz and sometimes running over a couple of space marines while doing so - all of that unthinkable in last edition.

Personally, I'm not impressed by the stompa at all, it has mediocre shooting (with supa-gattler being the only good gun on it) and isn't much stronger in combat than Thrakka or a trio of deff dreads. Not worth 900 points to me, even if it is pretty much unkillable.

Well when you factor in that the community voted on the Stompa and the majority agreed it was between 200-250pts OVER priced then factor in the 130pts increase in price (without adding in weapon options) your looking at a pretty hefty bump in price. At the same time you are reducing the effectiveness of its only good weapons.

It did gain durability though which should count for something. But at the same time it can now be hurt by every weapon in the game and most notably S6 weapons and S5 weapons which are spammable by a number of armies.

Overall. its still hot garbage and if Reece really thinks its good then I do in fact question his character on the matter. Clearly whoever playtested the ork codex screwed us.

 Dr.Duck wrote:

Im bit split on buggies atm. Loved them last edition cause they were AV10 2 wound twin linked rockets that moved 12 inches a turn FOR 25 POINTS. But now they are triple the points almost. Ya they are "harder to kill" and have 2 shots instead of 1 TW but meh....
Any thoughts?

You forgot the most important part: They can now charge and fight in combat.
I'd probably use them like I used koptaz in previous editions, find some backfield unit that's not awesome in combat and tie them up. They will stop shooting and you have a decent chance of killing them over multiple round due to high toughness, attacks and wounds.

They are basically biker warbosses without PK.

Any word on Deff Dreads? I only own one from the Start Collecting set but I love the model.

Also to those that brought Trukks, what did you put in them? I've got 2 that I use right now (one for nobz and the other for meganobz) and one more still in its box. Were most of your army footslogging it?

New stompa wont die in a game... 40 wounds? Cmon... that said... its point increase seems drastic for its crummy gunz and lack of firepoints. I predict little matched play table time for it...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Trukks seem LOTS better. Deffdreads are something I will field fo sho. Especially since three count as 1 FOC slot andas seperste units in play. Really looking forward to a dread mob list



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Doubt the dread is competitive though.

void shield generator is 190 pts, 12 inch bubble for models (models wholly within 12in) and is 4++ vs shooting until it looses half of it's 18 points....

and it's T8

and it's <unaligned>

and the detachment for formations allows you to take 3 of them (anyone have three vsg models?) Could be fun to put them on your front lines and get 4++ for almost everything on turn 1.

SemperMortis wrote:
Well when you factor in that the community voted on the Stompa and the majority agreed it was between 200-250pts OVER priced then factor in the 130pts increase in price (without adding in weapon options) your looking at a pretty hefty bump in price. At the same time you are reducing the effectiveness of its only good weapons.

You are comparing points between old and new edition, which got massively reworked for all vehicles. You might as well compare them to army points in Warmachine or Recource costs in Starcraft. So stop.

It did gain durability though which should count for something. But at the same time it can now be hurt by every weapon in the game and most notably S6 weapons and S5 weapons which are spammable by a number of armies.

So what? You average S5 and S6 weapon (heavy bolters, scatter lasers) are going to need 8-10 hits to take a wound off. That's a wave serpent shooting everything it has per wound, so it takes just 8 wave serpents (over ~1100 points of eldar, depending on vehicle upgrades) to kill it in 5 turns.

Overall. its still hot garbage and if Reece really thinks its good then I do in fact question his character on the matter. Clearly whoever playtested the ork codex screwed us.

Your arguments are "it was better last edition" and "there is a very slight chance that something might hurt it that couldn't hurt it before". He played it, so I'm inclined to take his word over yours



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 JimOnMars wrote:
void shield generator is 190 pts, 12 inch bubble for models (models wholly within 12in) and is 4++ vs shooting until it looses half of it's 18 points....

and it's T8

and it's <unaligned>

and the detachment for formations allows you to take 3 of them (anyone have three vsg models?) Could be fun to put them on your front lines and get 4++ for almost everything on turn 1.

It says Units fully within 12". They are also 190 points a piece, I and it's not a lot better at protecting your units than just buying a KFF mek (75) and a pain boy (65) instead (44.44% chance to save).

I also tried to fit the aegis defense line in, but with our units being 6+, it just improves them to 5+ at 75 points - it's exactly the same as just sitting a KFF mek next to your lootaz or big gunz, but the KFF is not reduced by AP.

 GreatGranpapy wrote:
Any word on Deff Dreads? I only own one from the Start Collecting set but I love the model.

Also to those that brought Trukks, what did you put in them? I've got 2 that I use right now (one for nobz and the other for meganobz) and one more still in its box. Were most of your army footslogging it?

Deff Dredds are 131 minimum (so two arms and 2 Big Shootas) Big Shootas suck so its gonna cost more in actuality, but there it is.


The Stompa costs 977 (49 of which are wasted on useless small arms) and its not worth it. I mean, it can get 12 S10 AP -2 D d3 attacks, but we can do that with Nobs for a tiny fraction of that price and the Supa Gattler doesnt justify bringing it to the party. Hell the Necron Tesseract Vault has W28 and a metric crapton of firepower and its just over 400 points. The Stompa should (realistically) be like 550

Also, why the does our Battlewagon have a 4+ save when it has better armor than the Naughts, who have a 3+?

 Jidmah wrote:

It says Units fully within 12". They are also 190 points a piece, I and it's not a lot better at protecting your units than just buying a KFF mek (75) and a pain boy (65) instead (44.44% chance to save).

I also tried to fit the aegis defense line in, but with our units being 6+, it just improves them to 5+ at 75 points - it's exactly the same as just sitting a KFF mek next to your lootaz or big gunz, but the KFF is not reduced by AP.

The advantage the Generato has over a KFF is the fact that its easier to fit 30 boyz into 12" than it is into the 9" of the KFF.

Ya, cover doesnt do jack for Orks this edition as the entire unit has to be in it to get the benefit.

 Grimmor wrote:

 GreatGranpapy wrote:
Any word on Deff Dreads? I only own one from the Start Collecting set but I love the model.


The Stompa costs 977 (49 of which are wasted on useless small arms) and its not worth it. I mean, it can get 12 S10 AP -2 D d3 attacks, but we can do that with Nobs for a tiny fraction of that price and the Supa Gattler doesnt justify bringing it to the party. Hell the Necron Tesseract Vault has W28 and a metric crapton of firepower and its just over 400 points. The Stompa should (realistically) be like 550

Also, why the does our Battlewagon have a 4+ save when it has better armor than the Naughts, who have a 3+?

 Jidmah wrote:

It says Units fully within 12". They are also 190 points a piece, I and it's not a lot better at protecting your units than just buying a KFF mek (75) and a pain boy (65) instead (44.44% chance to save).

I also tried to fit the aegis defense line in, but with our units being 6+, it just improves them to 5+ at 75 points - it's exactly the same as just sitting a KFF mek next to your lootaz or big gunz, but the KFF is not reduced by AP.

The advantage the Generato has over a KFF is the fact that its easier to fit 30 boyz into 12" than it is into the 9" of the KFF.

Ya, cover doesnt do jack for Orks this edition as the entire unit has to be in it to get the benefit.

Durability of a vehicle is now dictated by 3 stats. BW has higher toughness and more wounds. Ya stompas are pretty bad, buts its ok, cause Nauts got better and are more practical to put in a bag than stompas.

So I had my 1st game of 8th edition tonight. This will be part opinion piece and waaagh word vomit.
So we played 1000pt lists mainly to get used to the rules for a shorter game.
I ran a spearhead dreddmob
He ran abatalion of deathwatch
-barebones bigmek with oiler (he was destroyed turn 3 when the dw darkstar flanked and I had let him be exposed, but his repair roles were great at keeping my defdredds and killkans at staying in the game a little longer)(if I had to make a diff choice, I would do a bigmek in bike, he loses the oiler but he is way more mobile to hit other vehicles)(we played 4by4 so a bike wouldn’t be that more useful, but a bike mek would be great on a normal sized board and bigger game).
-morkanaut with kff (the deathwatch didn’t have the ap to ever make use of my kff , all my saves never got lower then 5, but 20pts realy didn’t dent my list, so no harm in having it (and it helped the bigmek when he was being shot at, though he still died to weight of fire))) (I didn’t get a chance to use the crush variant of the claw, but the smash version of the claw is amazing at wiping out 5 man squads of marines, a mork gets 12 attacks on the combat with that, very little could stand before it)
-2x defdredds with 2 bigshootas each, (with more points I would probably suggest skorchas, negating the por bs, and I was usually running toward my enemies so the bigshootas didn’t do much at all, if I had the points I would go for skochas and maybe extra claws (we don’t have to worry about immobilized so we can take more claws and skorchas without fear of premature game over for them) (more defdredds per hvy slot and splitting after deploy was nice, as they soon became individual powerhouses hunting down the enemy without having to be stuck together)
-killkan x2 with roket launchers, rokets are much more deadly, and in the hands of a grot just hurts marines or transports even better
-killkan with bigshoota (weight of fire still has its place for killkans since we can hurt more with new wounding chart, and it is the cheapest option and can get early game killakan shots due to range)
-killkan with grotzooka (this was a mix bag, being heavy hurts our to hit chances if we move, but planted on the ground when theyre close enough the zooka can really lay down the shots, on average I was doing 4shots with a 2d3 shots).
(final note on killkans, I still ended up getting into combat with my kans, and now I had hoped to at least had brought them in squads of at least 3 to possibly get an extra attack. (with kans being tougher overall and a bigmek doing repairs a squad of 3 could reliably be still 3 when they get into combat)(Having a nob with banner nearby could be another great option for making our kans better in melee)
He had 1 rihno, 1 covus blackstar, 4x5man squads of kil teams I think, didn’t remember who his warlord was, but he had a librarian, whose psychic powers didn’t always work, but did some major damage to a defdredd with smite. He started the battle with all his units in his transports, and dropped them, around objectives. We played eternal war because we didn’t have any of the new taco cards. He won barely by having more objective then I before the end (but another turn and I would’ve kicked them off if it didn’t end at 6. He got warlord kill with the death of my bigmek, but I got 1st blood, something I think orks will be getting more often, with how our vehicles wont pop are turn 1 anymore).
My opponent didn’t have any real anti vehicle weapons, so he pretty much ignored my morkanaut. Its hilarious because I did more damage to myself with the gets hot from the kmk and the kmb but if my bgmek had survived that long he would’ve negated that drawback, but even after 5 rounds hurting myself it still kept him within my 1st wound profile, making sure I hit at full efficiency in melee) but the big bonus was the faster speed of the mork, often I didn’t even need to advance to get around (I know we only played a 4by4 but faster gmrkanauts can only be beneficial)
Despite our forces being mismatched (him not having dedicated anti armor, my lack of weight of attacks verses his 1wound numbers ) it didn’t seem a hopeless cause for either of us, there was a fighting chance for either of us, it was a white knuckle experience all the way to the end where clever movement and mistakes saw him taking home the win, but another round could’ve had me wipe him off the board,
I love my walkers now, while more expensive, they felt durable for that cost, and had punch where it counted.
The covus Blackstar flyer transport seemed a little op, not costing him much points, having a lot of dakka, and being able to stay on the board all the time made it a thorn in my side (ill bring stomboyz or tractors in the future for games to what I think is a coming flyer metta )(hopefully they get a points increase next chapter approved book), (also it wasn’t too hard to wittle it down, since it was only -1 to my hits to shoot it (impacts orks more than other factions, so prepare to counter with proper units and not through just dakka alone).
As far as how the game played it was fast (when we got a handle of the rules). I enjoyed the simplicity, and yes the cover rules and facing seemed a little jarring, but Later the fun of this game against deathwatch made me excited to drop all I learned from 7th, I can’t wait to play more games (I haven’t been this excited to play 40k since I first started playing (a relative short time I guess since I started at the very end of 6th),
Command points weren’t overpowered, but weren’t useless, we used them to help get that charge, good random hit roll, and other important things we needed done in the moment.
Explodes results are just fun to do, they actually hurt everything!, not just low armor boyz! much more entertaining)
Sorry for the very bad word vomit, didn’t have much time to put together good word structure and paragraphs.
TLDR: I loved it, down with 7th, usher in 8th, its so good, im gonna,…im gonna… gona ….WAAAAAAAAAAGH!!!!!

 Jidmah wrote:

 Dr.Duck wrote:

Im bit split on buggies atm. Loved them last edition cause they were AV10 2 wound twin linked rockets that moved 12 inches a turn FOR 25 POINTS. But now they are triple the points almost. Ya they are "harder to kill" and have 2 shots instead of 1 TW but meh....
Any thoughts?

You forgot the most important part: They can now charge and fight in combat.
I'd probably use them like I used koptaz in previous editions, find some backfield unit that's not awesome in combat and tie them up. They will stop shooting and you have a decent chance of killing them over multiple round due to high toughness, attacks and wounds.

They are basically biker warbosses without PK.

The WS of Buggies/Trakks/Skorchas is so good it almost makes me wonder if it was a misprint.

Deffkoptas also have a surprising amount of close combat attacks with their spinning blades.

Hi guys, this threads been a nice read

Having an 8e Orks v Marines game with my son in short bursts. Deffkoptas seem awesome now. Wasn't too bothered by the price hike considering the buffs they got. My unit of 3 just wiped a 3 man Ravenwing bike squad with bombs before obliterating a 5 man assault squad with rokkits and blades in 1 turn
Did think blasts would be poor now but they've been doing OK. My SAG has been rolling well and slowly popping Terminators all game (making his points back easily). Kinda miss the lolrandom but do appreciate him not blowing himself up or taking chunks out of my own units for a change. The 3 Lobbas alongside him have been pretty effective as well. Grot BS and no scatter on out-of-LOS shots is a big improvement.
Can't wait to get the Grot Tank datasheet...

Dr.Duck wrote:

If I were to place models like big gunz and buggies on bases, what size would they be? Can I put lobbas on 40mm?

yep thats what i put mine on, never had a complaint.

as for the stompa, well considering i just spent all weekend building a conversion.... i will make sure it sees plenty of playtime.
thoughts:
the blasts took a big hit. but that was across the board.
it has 40 wounds, at a 3+ and almost no negative effects (even the damage table isnt going to do much imo).
For 900 points it will regularly be half your army or more. But the fact it has so many wounds means either two things. Either they focus it and 'try' to destroy it, which is going to take almost all game, with absolutely no guarantee that they will manage it. Or they will ignore it for the rest of your list.

if they focus it, not only can it move over models, fall back and continue to shoot and charge, but it will take everything they have that has an AP modifier. meaning whatever else is in your list is going to mostly take AP0 stuff. shooting wise it wont always do loads. but it will do it every turn for the whole game. so for 900 points you get a bullet magnet that it is almost a waste to shoot at; no more lucky bs with penetrations etc.

if they dont focus it, then every turn its going to not only shoot, but its going to charge, wreck face, force fall backs....

yeh its 900 points, but i have a feeling it is going to be one hell of a pain in the ass for any list that isnt equipped for a superheavy.
anyway il be taking mine for loads of games! so il keep you posted.

 Dakka Flakka Flame wrote:
The WS of Buggies/Trakks/Skorchas is so good it almost makes me wonder if it was a misprint.

I think they basically decided they were more like bikes than trukks, so they basically made them into double-bikes, similar to marine attack bikes. Compared to two bikers, a wartrakk has the same number of wounds but doesn't lose anything from taking half of them, has the same WS, BS, S, T and Save, costs almost exactly the same points with big shootas, gets half the shots at twice the range with big shootas, has a fancy deployment option, can be repaired by meks but not healed by painboys and has two thirds the attacks in close combat thanks to the bikers' choppas. Overall, I think the warbikers are a better deal because most enemy bike units outshoot both of them, but the bikers can win in close combat while the trakk can't.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
As for the stompa, I think the thing I'm going to miss most is packing it with meks and just repairing masses of damage. Three small units of burnas or lootas with three meks each plus a big mek and a couple more basic meks meant regenerating about 4 HP a turn. Now you can only use one mek, he has to stay outside and he only does D3 wounds at best (with each wound being roughly equal to 3 HP, that's better than the old rate per model but way less overall).

 doktor_g wrote:
New stompa wont die in a game... 40 wounds? Cmon... that said... its point increase seems drastic for its crummy gunz and lack of firepoints. I predict little matched play table time for it...

Err, what? Won't die in a game? It's laughably easy to kill point by point. An equal amounts of points in air dropping Plasma Scions on the supercharge kill it in one phase without getting any order or re-roll help. Sure, that's not a real battle scenario and they wouldn't all get to shoot like that, but 900-something points of Scions destroying your Stompa in one phase should wake you up to the world you're living in. You just made a statement that it wouldn't even die in a game of 5-7 shooting phases and fight phases, when it could definitely die in ONE (the army on the other side has 1100 points of other units too).

The Stompa is by far the worst unit in the game, point by point.

If it gives any comfort, a lot of the big and titanic models are right up there with him, but I'm afraid the Stompa stands alone at the pedestal of utter suckiness.

 Therion wrote:

The Stompa is by far the worst unit in the game, point by point.

Just out of curiosity, how many dozens of games of 8th ed did it take to come to this conclusion?

 davou wrote:

 Therion wrote:

The Stompa is by far the worst unit in the game, point by point.

Just out of curiosity, how many dozens of games of 8th ed did it take to come to this conclusion?

Don't fool yourself, the core rules and missions fit on a couple pages. Units shoot, and they're shot at. They move, and they can fight. They have guns, and they have wounds. The game can be played on a calculator to get the average result, and when you're done, you try to apply a modifier from all the special rules or bonuses or variables that might be involved that could swing the outcome to another direction. When something's really close, like a unit doing 80 points of damage vs MEQ per turn and another doing 85, and the other having 1 wound per 9.2 points and the other having 1 wound per 9.4 points, we're not going to make a call and declare the other better straight off the bat. But when a nearly 1000 point unit gets outshot against the common targets by 400 points of some much more efficient stuff, and has less than half the survivability in wounds and armor saves against all types of weaponry than the more efficient stuff, yeah, we'll make the call. There's nothing we don't know and nothing that we're missing.

Even then, the game is still a dice game, and if you're really lucky, and the other guy is really stupid, you could still win games with the Stompa. That doesn't have anything to do with the fact that it's a steaming pile of garbage.

 JimOnMars wrote:
void shield generator is 190 pts, 12 inch bubble for models (models wholly within 12in) and is 4++ vs shooting until it looses half of it's 18 points....

and it's T8

and it's <unaligned>

and the detachment for formations allows you to take 3 of them (anyone have three vsg models?) Could be fun to put them on your front lines and get 4++ for almost everything on turn 1.

I'll try it out with two VSG and a Firestorm Redoubt (manned by bomb squigs ) Lotta points though.

 Therion wrote:

 davou wrote:

 Therion wrote:

The Stompa is by far the worst unit in the game, point by point.

Just out of curiosity, how many dozens of games of 8th ed did it take to come to this conclusion?

Don't fool yourself, the core rules and missions fit on a couple pages. Units shoot, and they're shot at. They move, and they can fight. They have guns, and they have wounds. The game can be played on a calculator to get the average result, and when you're done, you try to apply a modifier from all the special rules or bonuses or variables that might be involved that could swing the outcome to another direction. When something's really close, like a unit doing 80 points of damage vs MEQ per turn and another doing 85, and the other having 1 wound per 9.2 points and the other having 1 wound per 9.4 points, we're not going to make a call and declare the other better straight off the bat. But when a nearly 1000 point unit gets outshot against the common targets by 400 points of some much more efficient stuff, and has less than half the survivability in wounds and armor saves against all types of weaponry than the more efficient stuff, yeah, we'll make the call. There's nothing we don't know and nothing that we're missing.

Even then, the game is still a dice game, and if you're really lucky, and the other guy is really stupid, you could still win games with the Stompa. That doesn't have anything to do with the fact that it's a steaming pile of garbage.

So then the dozens upon dozens of games you've played to get such a profound sense of the game were played on a calculator?

 davou wrote:

 Therion wrote:

 davou wrote:

 Therion wrote:

The Stompa is by far the worst unit in the game, point by point.

Just out of curiosity, how many dozens of games of 8th ed did it take to come to this conclusion?

Don't fool yourself, the core rules and missions fit on a couple pages. Units shoot, and they're shot at. They move, and they can fight. They have guns, and they have wounds. The game can be played on a calculator to get the average result, and when you're done, you try to apply a modifier from all the special rules or bonuses or variables that might be involved that could swing the outcome to another direction. When something's really close, like a unit doing 80 points of damage vs MEQ per turn and another doing 85, and the other having 1 wound per 9.2 points and the other having 1 wound per 9.4 points, we're not going to make a call and declare the other better straight off the bat. But when a nearly 1000 point unit gets outshot against the common targets by 400 points of some much more efficient stuff, and has less than half the survivability in wounds and armor saves against all types of weaponry than the more efficient stuff, yeah, we'll make the call. There's nothing we don't know and nothing that we're missing.

Even then, the game is still a dice game, and if you're really lucky, and the other guy is really stupid, you could still win games with the Stompa. That doesn't have anything to do with the fact that it's a steaming pile of garbage.

So then the dozens upon dozens of games you've played to get such a profound sense of the game were played on a calculator?

I've played thousands of games. Not just this edition. This edition hasn't been released yet. Seems like you've been a bit out of the loop, but don't worry, I'm here to educate you. By the way, did you know the Queen is a valuable chess piece, and outperforms a Bishop very easily? Oh no wait, I'm not a chess world champion of 2017, so I'm not qualified to make that assessment.

The first tournament game I'm playing this edition has already started. It started when I begun comparing units and planning army lists. It continues on a day by day basis, getting new data and new information, and following the meta developments. It's a part of winning a game of 40K. When the army finally is selected and enters play, it'll be mathematically a lot stronger than my opponent's. It'll be like playing chess with four Queens, because the other guy thinks he has to test his Bishops first. He believes that if he tests them enough, they might outperform Queens. He's you. He's going to lose.

 Therion wrote:
By the way, did you know the Queen is a valuable chess piece, and outperforms a Bishop very easily?

Did you figure that out on a calculator?

Recceius has played thousands of games too, as well as having a good number of those in the new edition, using the new rules. So tell me, if I shouldn't dismiss what you're saying because you've had a good amount of games, then why do you do it to someone who HAS been playing the new edition?

I'm open to the possibility that the stompa isn't good, (I wish it were because I love mine) but you seem to be deadset on it.

I can agree that from the looks of it now, the stompa is not good. However it's tough to try to do point to point comparison with different roles for units. 900 points of scions would probably also die to 900 points of Boyz in a charge. I can't say they are useless because they have a different role. By the way don't criticize others for mathhammering or for waiting to playtest. Both have their merits in this game and all you are bringing is hate on the thread.

 Dr.Duck wrote:
Durability of a vehicle is now dictated by 3 stats. BW has higher toughness and more wounds. Ya stompas are pretty bad, buts its ok, cause Nauts got better and are more practical to put in a bag than stompas.

Yes, and Toughness is the least important of the 3, as everything can wound everything. The BW having a 3+ would be immensely helpful as then it would actually have a save against Lascannons