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http://www.gamesradar.com/someones-worked-out-what-sansas-letter-said-in-this-weeks-game-of-thrones-spoilers/



[person says they can make out :

Won't that completely end her story though? If she ends her identity, her arc is over; she can't rejoin the Stark family as a Faceless, she can't take revenge, as the God of Many Faces forbids unsanctioned assassinations, etc.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Won't that completely end her story though? If she ends her identity, her arc is over; she can't rejoin the Stark family as a Faceless, she can't take revenge, as the God of Many Faces forbids unsanctioned assassinations, etc.

Not necessarily. We don't know enough about the Faceless Men to assume (either way) that a Faceless Man's original identity is permanently lost and cannot resurface again in the future. Perhaps a reunion with her family or Nymeria will help restore her Stark identity. Shes supposed to be a Warg after all. If she ever crosses paths with Nymeria again, perhaps warging will begin to undo the process.

I don't think they at all intend for Arya to become No One, though. I don't think it's in her to kill people on someone else's say so with no background. She wants very specific vengeance.

Also I thought the whole point of the last few episodes was to show that she has not and is not becoming a cold blooded killer?

Hopefully its not just delaying tactics by the writers GRM style or a dream or something similar.

Shes supposed to be a Warg after all. If she ever crosses paths with Nymeria again, perhaps warging will begin to undo the process.

Not sure any sign of that in the show in her or Sansa or any of the Starks apart from Bran?

I think they will just go with Bran having that power.

 Ouze wrote:
I don't think they at all intend for Arya to become No One, though. I don't think it's in her to kill people on someone else's say so with no background. She wants very specific vengeance.

Well, that's a divergence on the show.

In the books, she kills the Insurance Man with a poisoned coin. She has no problem with killing strangers under orders, its the personal revenge killings that she can't give up.

Maybe she'll simply master the FM abilities but retain her sense of self. It's been noted in the book and show that she's very talented, and perhaps her warging talents make her uniquely qualified to do this. When a warg transfers, he/she has to be strong enough to not lose himself/herself in the host animal, right? Maybe wargs are very skilled at holding onto their identity.

Although again those seem like "why" details we'd get in one of the books rather than the show, where it hasn't even been established that she's a warg.

Yes. They fethed up by not putting a Cat in the scene where she's duelling blind with the Waif, and wargs into the Cat to see through its eyes.

And I know that Lady Stoneheart has probably been cut entirely, so they couldn't do the scene when Nymeria finds Lady Stoneheart by the river, but they could have done a couple scenes (in first person POV to cut down on CGI expenses) when Arya wolf dreams / wargs into Nymeria and sees her leading the big pack of Wolves and attacking Frey soldiers. And then have a few characters make references to a huge pack of wolves lead by a great beast stalking the Riverlands, just to remind us of Nymeria's existence.

Those small additions would have established Arya as a Warg. The audience is already familiar with the concept thanks to Bran and Jon Snow, and should have been able to connect the dots.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
Yes. They fethed up by not putting a Cat in the scene where she's duelling blind with the Waif, and wargs into the Cat to see through its eyes.

And I know that Lady Stoneheart has probably been cut entirely, so they couldn't do the scene when Nymeria finds Lady Stoneheart by the river, but they could have done a couple scenes (in first person POV to cut down on CGI expenses) when Arya wolf dreams / wargs into Nymeria and sees her leading the big pack of Wolves and attacking Frey soldiers. And then have a few characters make references to a huge pack of wolves lead by a great beast stalking the Riverlands, just to remind us of Nymeria's existence.

Those small additions would have established Arya as a Warg. The audience is already familiar with the concept thanks to Bran and Jon Snow, and should have been able to connect the dots.

Or they don't want her to be a Warg - cos that's Brans thing in the Show. Has Jon actually done it in the Show? Its more likely to be a narrative choice for the Show than a "feth up["

Wolves are expensive CGI and time wise so they are cutting them - no need for more is likely to be the show line.

Arya has not killed on command in the Show that I recall.

They dont have to cut out the wolves to save costs on CGI all the time. They can do more POV scenes from the wolves perspective (first person) like when summer is prowling through winter fell and climbs up onto brans bed.

Just got caught up.

So...we're supposed to think at this point that the Night King (or whatever the White Walker HQ is) and the Mad King are one and the same, right?

No, there's no connection between the two as far as anyone is aware.

 gorgon wrote:
No, there's no connection between the two as far as anyone is aware.

There was a scene where they kept flashing from blurry pictures of the Night King with the White Walkers to blurry pictures of a King running around yelling "Burn them all!", which is what the Mad King used to run around yelling.

 jasper76 wrote:

 gorgon wrote:
No, there's no connection between the two as far as anyone is aware.

There was a scene where they kept flashing from blurry pictures of the Night King with the White Walkers to blurry pictures of a King running around yelling "Burn them all!", which is what the Mad King used to run around yelling.

I think that this was less to try to make them one and the same, and more to illustrate the fact that Bran was in the process of becoming the Three Eyed Raven and gaining all the knowledge of those events.

 jasper76 wrote:
Just got caught up.

So...we're supposed to think at this point that the Night King (or whatever the White Walker HQ is) and the Mad King are one and the same, right?

What? No.

 d-usa wrote:

 jasper76 wrote:

 gorgon wrote:
No, there's no connection between the two as far as anyone is aware.

There was a scene where they kept flashing from blurry pictures of the Night King with the White Walkers to blurry pictures of a King running around yelling "Burn them all!", which is what the Mad King used to run around yelling.

I think that this was less to try to make them one and the same, and more to illustrate the fact that Bran was in the process of becoming the Three Eyed Raven and gaining all the knowledge of those events.

What I took out of it was that Bran was actually seeing that they are the same person. They even looked alike in the scenes.

Certainly, I could be wrong on this, but that's how I read the scene. I guess we'll find out eventually, in like 7 more seasons...

 jasper76 wrote:

 gorgon wrote:
No, there's no connection between the two as far as anyone is aware.

There was a scene where they kept flashing from blurry pictures of the Night King with the White Walkers to blurry pictures of a King running around yelling "Burn them all!", which is what the Mad King used to run around yelling.

Which is likely the result of Bran whispering to or warging into the Mad King trying to warn him of the White Walkers. It may be what originally set off his madness.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

 jasper76 wrote:

 gorgon wrote:
No, there's no connection between the two as far as anyone is aware.

There was a scene where they kept flashing from blurry pictures of the Night King with the White Walkers to blurry pictures of a King running around yelling "Burn them all!", which is what the Mad King used to run around yelling.

Which is likely the result of Bran whispering to or warging into the Mad King trying to warn him of the White Walkers. It may be what originally set off his madness.

40 years of watching flashback/dream montages leads me to believe the Mad King and the Night King are the same!

Although I can also buy your explanation, as well, especially with the "Hold the Door" revelation.

Still, the two looked very similar...

 jasper76 wrote:

 d-usa wrote:

 jasper76 wrote:

 gorgon wrote:
No, there's no connection between the two as far as anyone is aware.

There was a scene where they kept flashing from blurry pictures of the Night King with the White Walkers to blurry pictures of a King running around yelling "Burn them all!", which is what the Mad King used to run around yelling.

I think that this was less to try to make them one and the same, and more to illustrate the fact that Bran was in the process of becoming the Three Eyed Raven and gaining all the knowledge of those events.

What I took out of it was that Bran was actually seeing that they are the same person. They even looked alike in the scenes.

Surprised I am the only one who picked up on this...

Aerys died in Kings Landing decades ago. We know this because Jaime said so, and Bran saw Jaime killing him in a vision. The show's version of the Night King was a First Man who was captured by the Children of the Forest thousands of years ago before the Long Night and was turned into the first White Walker.

The only possible connection between them is that at some point in the future, Bran may have shown Aerys a vision of the Night King and the army of the dead, and like Hodor, it may be what made him go mad.

No.

The mad king is the mad king.

The Night King was created by the Children. THOUSANDS of years ago.

Yes, agreed - and we did learn that...what?...two episodes ago?

 jasper76 wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

 jasper76 wrote:

 gorgon wrote:
No, there's no connection between the two as far as anyone is aware.

There was a scene where they kept flashing from blurry pictures of the Night King with the White Walkers to blurry pictures of a King running around yelling "Burn them all!", which is what the Mad King used to run around yelling.

Which is likely the result of Bran whispering to or warging into the Mad King trying to warn him of the White Walkers. It may be what originally set off his madness.

40 years of watching flashback/dream montages leads me to believe the Mad King and the Night King are the same!

Although I can also buy your explanation, as well, especially with the "Hold the Door" revelation.

Still, the two looked very similar...

No they don't...

The Mad King.


The Night King.


We already know the origins of the Night King on the show. He is thousands of years old. He is not King Aerys, who died ~20 years prior to the show. We even saw his death at the hands of Jaime Lannister in Bran's vision.

Are you sure you're not confusing the Night King for the Three Eyed Raven?

Three Eyed Raven.


The Three Eyed Raven was a Targaryen bastard called Brynden Rivers. He was a relative of King Aerys, and he served as the Hand of the King prior to Aerys reign before he was convicted of murder and sent to the Wall. Unlike the Night King, He does look like the Mad King, and thats because he's a Targaryen (by blood if not name).

 cincydooley wrote:
No.

The mad king is the mad king.

The Night King was created by the Children. THOUSANDS of years ago.

Reincarnation? Time travel? Magic?

OK, I give up. Looks like I took the wrong message from that scene.

It is interesting to think that the Mad Kings madness may have been caused by Bran, just like Hodor's was.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

 jasper76 wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

 jasper76 wrote:

 gorgon wrote:
No, there's no connection between the two as far as anyone is aware.

There was a scene where they kept flashing from blurry pictures of the Night King with the White Walkers to blurry pictures of a King running around yelling "Burn them all!", which is what the Mad King used to run around yelling.

Which is likely the result of Bran whispering to or warging into the Mad King trying to warn him of the White Walkers. It may be what originally set off his madness.

40 years of watching flashback/dream montages leads me to believe the Mad King and the Night King are the same!

Although I can also buy your explanation, as well, especially with the "Hold the Door" revelation.

Still, the two looked very similar...

No they don't...

The Mad King.

Spoiler:

The Night King.

Spoiler:

We already know the origins of the Night King on the show. He is thousands of years old. He is not King Aerys, who died ~20 years prior to the show. We even saw his death at the hands of Jaime Lannister in Bran's vision.

Seriously? Look pretty similar to me. If that king was transformed into that zombie, I wouldn't bat an eyebrow.

But your other points regarding the timeline are well taken. I clearly drew the wrong conclusion from the scene.

You're jumping through convoluted hoops and ignoring entire episodes of the show.

We know who the Night King is. He is not King Aerys.

We saw King Aerys' death in Bran's vision, far south of the Wall.
We saw the Night King's "birth" (when he was made into a White Walker), which happened thousands of years ago north of the Wall.

This was the Night King, when he was still human.

As stated in the previous post, I clearly drew the wrong conclusion from the scene.

But the Mad King and the Night King do look alike

I don't know about Bran, but I could believe that the previous Raven caused the madness when he tried to warn the king, and that is how he knew that you cannot interfere with the past.

 jasper76 wrote:
As stated in the previous post, I clearly drew the wrong conclusion from the scene.

But the Mad King and the Night King do look alike

Yes you must have posted that whilst I was still typing.

To those who are speculating that the Mad King's madness was caused by Bran/the Three Eyed Raven - its an elegant theory.

However, my partner pointed out to me that its overlooking the fact that the mad king ordered for thousands of pots of wildfire to be scattered at key points around King's Landing (really far from the dead, but in a perfect place to blow up his own city) before he started running around openly shouting 'Burn them All.'

 jasper76 wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

 jasper76 wrote:

 gorgon wrote:
No, there's no connection between the two as far as anyone is aware.

There was a scene where they kept flashing from blurry pictures of the Night King with the White Walkers to blurry pictures of a King running around yelling "Burn them all!", which is what the Mad King used to run around yelling.

Which is likely the result of Bran whispering to or warging into the Mad King trying to warn him of the White Walkers. It may be what originally set off his madness.

40 years of watching flashback/dream montages leads me to believe the Mad King and the Night King are the same!

Although I can also buy your explanation, as well, especially with the "Hold the Door" revelation.

Still, the two looked very similar...

The Night's King was the 13th Night's Watch Commander
Aerys the Mad was the King when Robert Rebelled
One died 18 years ago when Jaime stabbed him in the back
The other died so long ago his existence isn't a guarantee & was alleged killed by a coalition between the King in the North & Joramund the King Beyond the Wall



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also the "Arya" we see get stabbed didn't have Needle & had completely changed her hair & clothes & even passed a very Arya looking person on the street right before the stabbing

 d-usa wrote:
I don't know about Bran, but I could believe that the previous Raven caused the madness when he tried to warn the king, and that is how he knew that you cannot interfere with the past.

I was thinking something similar.