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DrRansom wrote:
About the game, do the designers have an idea about how to balance army building with the desire of people to put whatever they own in a battle? For, as much as 40K Unbound seems ridiculous, I must admit that any 40K army I ever build will abuse Unbound to its fullest, as I'll go for model design as much as rules. Do you have a plan to balance the need for an equal game with the desire of players to play with what they have / want?

IMHO, giving players limitations when constructing their forces for a game is part of the fun. I don't really understand the concept of 'unbound' as an actual rule ever needs to be put into a rulebook as it is always the case that players can choose to play with whatever models they want. I guess the argument is that 'unbound' legitimizes one player bringing an 'unbound' army against another player who built his force via the standard force building rules...but the truth is, both players *always* have to agree to play a game or it doesn't happen, so if one guy doesn't want to play a game against an 'unbound' army then he's not going to.

So there are no plans to specifically allow players to use everything that have however they want. We will have force building rules that are hopefully flexible enough to make people happy, but still restrictive enough to force you to make tough (yet exciting) choices when designing your force for battle.

But this post has reminded me that it can't hurt to put a little blurb in the rules that 'it is always okay to ignore the force construction rules and play a game with whatever models you want, so long as both players are open to it.'

Long as you have a decent priced delivery to the UK, im interested. guessing as some of the Dakka "staff" for lack of a better word are globally positioned so probably saves some problems having people on the ground close to both Europe and USA.

just don't fall to the darkside and cover things in skulls lol

Another question:

I assume your goal on this is to have a tight ruleset that will support competitive play. Will you be actively supporting future competitive play with this game? Similar to how PP does with Warmachine?

Apologies if this was already asked.

 jhe90 wrote:
Long as you have a decent priced delivery to the UK, im interested. guessing as some of the Dakka "staff" for lack of a better word are globally positioned so probably saves some problems having people on the ground close to both Europe and USA.

just don't fall to the darkside and cover things in skulls lol

We are joint UK / US based so no worries about delivery!

Agh, so sounds like a very effective model, saves those pesky transatlantic costs :-)

Good luck with the project, though at this point it a seems you already have got pretty far already!

Really liking the clean, crisp, looking models for your first showing.

Since it is a lower model count game, I might be able to afford it.

Stormphoenix wrote:

 jhe90 wrote:
Long as you have a decent priced delivery to the UK, im interested. guessing as some of the Dakka "staff" for lack of a better word are globally positioned so probably saves some problems having people on the ground close to both Europe and USA.

just don't fall to the darkside and cover things in skulls lol

We are joint UK / US based so no worries about delivery!

I know this might be a longshot (and a bit premature), but what are the chances you guys will go through the bother of getting VAT-refunds from the UK and passing them on to lovely onomatopoeia in Norway? I really like the look of Maelstrom's Edge, but I am significantly less excited about paying 25% VAT plus a £16 customs fee on every order I make on top of full UK price including UK VAT.

Im really excited to see the kickstarter and more to come when its all ready to be released. This is looking like a great game/world/mini's.

 yakface wrote:

DrRansom wrote:
About the game, do the designers have an idea about how to balance army building with the desire of people to put whatever they own in a battle? For, as much as 40K Unbound seems ridiculous, I must admit that any 40K army I ever build will abuse Unbound to its fullest, as I'll go for model design as much as rules. Do you have a plan to balance the need for an equal game with the desire of players to play with what they have / want?

IMHO, giving players limitations when constructing their forces for a game is part of the fun. I don't really understand the concept of 'unbound' as an actual rule ever needs to be put into a rulebook as it is always the case that players can choose to play with whatever models they want. I guess the argument is that 'unbound' legitimizes one player bringing an 'unbound' army against another player who built his force via the standard force building rules...but the truth is, both players *always* have to agree to play a game or it doesn't happen, so if one guy doesn't want to play a game against an 'unbound' army then he's not going to.

So there are no plans to specifically allow players to use everything that have however they want. We will have force building rules that are hopefully flexible enough to make people happy, but still restrictive enough to force you to make tough (yet exciting) choices when designing your force for battle.

But this post has reminded me that it can't hurt to put a little blurb in the rules that 'it is always okay to ignore the force construction rules and play a game with whatever models you want, so long as both players are open to it.'

Glad to hear that, and some common sense being applied.

jhe90 wrote:Agh, so sounds like a very effective model, saves those pesky transatlantic costs :-)

Good luck with the project, though at this point it a seems you already have got pretty far already!

ProtoClone wrote:Really liking the clean, crisp, looking models for your first showing.

Since it is a lower model count game, I might be able to afford it.

flukezor wrote:Im really excited to see the kickstarter and more to come when its all ready to be released. This is looking like a great game/world/mini's.

Thank you!

In case people think we're only responding to questions, we really appreciate everyone's feedback and well wishes! Our core team of eight people have been volunteering their time on the project for the last three and a half years, working for free on the rules, background design and fiction so that the seed money we had could be spent on bringing in the best artists and sculptors to bring our universe to life.

We are all gamers and scifi fans like you and we're aiming to create the game and world that we always wanted to see and play ourselves. We've tried our hardest to make it the best game we possibly could and it's really amazing to get so much positive feedback from such a wonderful community.

The more I read about this, the more I can't wait to get involved. The ruleset sounds unique; I particularly like the whole suppression idea. It seems like you're trying to recreate "real-time" elements in a turn based game.

Yakface yeah I agree limiting the player is a good thing it forces creativity in players to think about the systems and apply them. Its the same way that when you give a few players in say a game like puzzle games, they like finding things to do and figure out ways to enjoy the game.

Limiting the players to certain things encourages more controlled games and more interesting games.
IF limits are not placed on certain cards there would be optimal strategies.

Wow, im a HUGE longtime fan of DakkaDakka (im constantly directly folks here) but im more then a little concerned with the 'apparent' list of similarities between the new game you're working on "Maelstrom's edge" and my game "VOR: The Maelstrom". Its obviously still quite early and details are still sparse but yikes guys! I was fully expecting to see growlers and shard as I scrolled thru the images you posted.

- Squad based sci-fi 28mm wargame
- Primarily features a planet consuming space anomaly called the Maelstrom
- Players play remnants of said doomed planets fighting to survive against eachother
- Alternating unit activation
- Custom force rules

It looks to be using a D6 instead of a D10 so there's one difference at least.

Is it just my imagination or is this game ripping heavily from VOR? Obviously many of those bits listed above are present individually in various other games (especially post 2000) but having them all together makes it seem pretty blatant.

Not even trying to flame here folks so no need to attack, im just asking an honest question.

- Mike

Skuzzy wrote:
Wow, im a HUGE longtime fan of DakkaDakka (im constantly directly folks here) but im more then a little concerned with the 'apparent' list of similarities between the new game you're working on "Maelstrom's edge" and my game "VOR: The Maelstrom". Its obviously still quite early and details are still sparse but yikes guys! I was fully expecting to see growlers and shard as I scrolled thru the images you posted.

- Squad based sci-fi 28mm wargame
- Primarily features a planet consuming space anomaly called the Maelstrom
- Players play remnants of said doomed planets fighting to survive against eachother
- Alternating unit activation
- Custom force rules

It looks to be using a D6 instead of a D10 so there's one difference at least.

Is it just my imagination or is this game ripping heavily from VOR? Obviously many of those bits listed above are present individually in various other games (especially post 2000) but having them all together makes it seem pretty blatant.

Not even trying to flame here folks so no need to attack, im just asking an honest question.

- Mike

Honestly, other than the use of the word Maelstrom, I can't say that we've done many things at all similar to VOR, although I'm not familiar with much about that game. 28mm is the standard size model for this kind of game, alternating unit activation is a very common mechanic, and without custom force rules, how would you choose a side to play a game? I certainly feel that we've made a game that stands all on its own and I think as we reveal more about the rules and background we'll show that other than that one word in the name, there's very little similarities between the two games.

Yeah, aside from the use of the word ' Maelstrom ' there is really no comparison between the two settings.

"""Honestly, other than the use of the word Maelstrom, I can't say that we've done many things at all similar to them, although I'm not familiar with much about that game. 28mm is the standard size model for this kind of game, alternating unit activation is a very common mechanic, and without custom force rules, how would you choose a side to play a game? I certainly feel that we've made a game that stands all on its own and I think as we reveal more about the rules and background we'll show that other than that one word in the name, there's very little similarities between the two games."""

Well that's good to hear and I appreciate the reply. As I mentioned previously, im a huge fan of this site and what its done for the wargame community so please don't take my post the wrong way, I'm just a concerned parent of sorts looking out for my creation. Im sure you guys can appreciate that point of view. I'll keep my fingers crossed that "Maelstroms edge" is as original a package as you are saying and will certainly keep an eye on this as it progresses.

Best of luck to you and the team!

- Mike

Wait, didn't I post after that Maelstrom guy?

Ish.

But your question appeared to be about the new Eldar codex so didn't really have any relevance to this thread.

If there was a point you were trying to make that we missed apologies.

I am hoping that stretch goals add more things you already have produced to the box (free sprues) rather than funding new production which would drive the delivery timeline out a couple of years. It would be a shame to have worked on this so long only to have to wait another year or two before anybody gets to play it. I'm guessing ks funds will go towards printing rulebooks/boxes/counters/cards, buying dice, and paying back seed money. I think with your brand recognition and plastic ready to go you could pull in a million. Now that I think of it, hopefully you use some ks money to hire a professional packing house or help.

You may also consider linking more stretch goals to backer count than dollar count, but that would be more of a long term play for the health of the game.

I can't wait to see the drones. I am also really glad that the pauldrons on the Karists are separate. They unbalance the mini a bit to my eyes.

 Gallahad wrote:

I am hoping that stretch goals add more things you already have produced to the box (free sprues) rather than funding new production which would drive the delivery timeline out a couple of years.

It would be a shame to have worked on this so long only to have to wait another year or two before anybody gets to play it. I'm guessing ks funds will go towards printing rulebooks/boxes/counters/cards, buying dice, and paying back seed money.

From Legoburner on the very first post on the very first page:

We started this project before Kickstarter took off in the wargaming world and based on the strength of the team alone we were able to secure enough funding to create an entire starter box set in real plastic. As we saw kickstarter deliver huge audiences and secured funding to other wargaming companies out there, we adjusted our release plan to start work on additional plastic models beyond the initial box set contents with a view to running a Kickstarter to raise the funds for the physical production, shipping and marketing elements of the plan. It is safe to say that this will be an incredibly low risk Kickstarter for anyone who wants to get first dibs on the game as the project is largely complete at the moment and should ship well before the end of the year. Our only major projected delay will be the beta testing and printing of the rulebook and related shipping. The models are close to completion and have very little work left to be retail ready, with production moving at a great and stable pace.

Skuzzy wrote:
"""Honestly, other than the use of the word Maelstrom, I can't say that we've done many things at all similar to them, although I'm not familiar with much about that game. 28mm is the standard size model for this kind of game, alternating unit activation is a very common mechanic, and without custom force rules, how would you choose a side to play a game? I certainly feel that we've made a game that stands all on its own and I think as we reveal more about the rules and background we'll show that other than that one word in the name, there's very little similarities between the two games."""

Well that's good to hear and I appreciate the reply. As I mentioned previously, im a huge fan of this site and what its done for the wargame community so please don't take my post the wrong way, I'm just a concerned parent of sorts looking out for my creation. Im sure you guys can appreciate that point of view. I'll keep my fingers crossed that "Maelstroms edge" is as original a package as you are saying and will certainly keep an eye on this as it progresses.

Best of luck to you and the team!

- Mike

Thank you for the good wishes! As a writer myself I can totally understand your initial reaction however I think hopefully I can illustrate a few key differences in our background (although I don't know much about VOR so you'll have to excuse me if I say anything incorrectly!).

* VOR is set in the 22nd century. In Maelstrom's Edge, we're tens of thousands of years in the future, where Earth has long since been lost to the sands of time.
* Several of VOR's factions originated on Earth, whilst our factions have been travelling through space for millennia via the cybel networks that connect the stars, and control any number of planets.
* In VOR planets are sucked in to an alternate dimension like the warp where everyone fights, whereas in Maelstrom's Edge, the entire galaxy is being destroyed by a gigantic, expanding explosion of energy which forces everyone to compete for a dwindling amount of resources and space all while fleeing in the same direction towards the outer rim of the galaxy. In VOR, the alternate dimension is the beginning of the story, whereas in Maelstrom's Edge, the Maelstrom is the end for those unfortunate enough to encounter it.
*We are going for a fairly hard science fiction setting, which from my limited understanding of VOR, is quite a different feel. The Maelstrom is a physical catastrophe, spilling out destructive dark energy into realspace like a galactic tidal wave, destroying everything in its path.

If you want to know more so that you feel comfortable about the many other differences between the settings, if you send me your email by private message I am happy to send you complimentary copies of our first two novels.

OH MAN! Hey Skuzzy! VOR is awesome! It never got the support that it needed from FASA.

Skuzzy wrote:
- Squad based sci-fi 28mm wargame
- Alternating unit activation
- Custom force rules

These concepts are a bit ubiquitous to cite as evidence of "heavy" plagiarism. I'm not quite sure what you mean by "custom force rules", but if you mean a template to create your own faction then the developers have explicitly stated there will not (and likely never) be an option for that.

I understand and appreciate your concern but I felt like the statement "Ill keep my fingers crossed that your story is different than mine" was kind of a passive aggressive jab at the writers.

Science fiction table top war games are bound to share some kind of attributes, thus anyone only semi-familiar with settings will easily recognize similarities.

For example (and I'm pulling this from the VOR wiki page so stop me if I'm wrong):

The Growlers are "a strong and adaptable race directed by the pack's collective hivemind"....Tyranids.
The Zykhee are "vaguely humanoid creatures with advanced technology".....Tau
Shard: "The Shard are a race of life forms who have transcended physical form and have become pure energy. Upon entering the Maelstrom they found the need to encase said energy/essence in crystalline forms"...C'Tan?
Pharon: "The Pharon are a dead race. Formerly mummified, similar to the mummies of Ancient Egypt the strange energies of the Maelstrom have reanimated them".....Necrons

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VOR:_The_Maelstrom

Quick mod note: Skuzzy raised his concern very politely and some of the Maelstrom's Edge staff are discussing it with him (and I believe sharing the novels to show how different the world really is).

So, no need to pile on further about VOR here, and if we could return to talking about Maelstrom's Edge / the topic of this thread, that would be great

How many of the factions will be using robots, and will we be able to field entire forces of robots? Will there be bipedal and quadrupedal robots? So far, those sound like the plastics with the most potential to me.







PS: Since there's a mod warning, I won't point out how similar both games are to my own game, Voracious Maelstrom Hedge, in the hopes of acquiring free books.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Voracious Maelstrom Hedge,

excuse me,
Vorpal's Maelstrom : The Edge Miniatures Game
which I wrote in 1987
and is based entirely upon playing squads of The Edge from U2 slaying Maelstrom Press music critics with his Vorpal Guitar

 Gallahad wrote:
I am hoping that stretch goals add more things you already have produced to the box (free sprues) rather than funding new production which would drive the delivery timeline out a couple of years. It would be a shame to have worked on this so long only to have to wait another year or two before anybody gets to play it. I'm guessing ks funds will go towards printing rulebooks/boxes/counters/cards, buying dice, and paying back seed money. I think with your brand recognition and plastic ready to go you could pull in a million. Now that I think of it, hopefully you use some ks money to hire a professional packing house or help.

You may also consider linking more stretch goals to backer count than dollar count, but that would be more of a long term play for the health of the game.

I can't wait to see the drones. I am also really glad that the pauldrons on the Karists are separate. They unbalance the mini a bit to my eyes.

Thanks for copying in my earlier comments on the matter monders. This question is a good one and does deserve a more specific answer too.

Gallahad, you are very correct - if we were to add any new models or sprues as stretch goals, we'd knock the delivery timeline back by years. We know that given past kickstarters people will be shouting from the rooftops asking for additional model designs, complementary sprues, etc. but it is not something we will be doing for the very reasons you give. We want this in people's hand by the end of the year and plastic development is far too volatile to add anything outside our initial scope to accomplish that goal.

We currently have the core boxed set models and a few extra models planned, which in a retail sales model are intended to be sold as additional supplementary units. As more funds come in through the kickstarter, our carefully calculated margins will allow us to both increase the volume of content in the boxed set and merge in some of those additional models. As such, while we will only have a handful of stretch goals, the majority of them should really drive the content of the boxed set up to a point where the value makes it a complete no-brainer for any fence sitters.

We'll be revealing stretch goals throughout the project so as not to flood everything up front and then have a boring middle, but if we see funding surpass the needs for the stretch goals that we have lined up, we'll switch to revealing them (already unlocked) on a calendar basis to keep the anticipation building.

Thanks for the kind words!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
How many of the factions will be using robots, and will we be able to field entire forces of robots? Will there be bipedal and quadrupedal robots? So far, those sound like the plastics with the most potential to me.

Just the Epirians have robots at this time, as they have some pretty key synergies both on and off the battlefield with their robotic charges. There will be bipedal, quadrupedal and airborne robots (we aren't joking when we say they are the robot faction!)

Awww, my single attempt at an assless chaps comment is gone. Oh well, got another question for ya'll:

Not sure whether the books will cover this, but I'm assuming the rulebook for the initial game might, but do we have any hints as to the actual origin of the Maelstrom? Personally, I'm a huge fan of blaming bad science experiments gone awry when angry animal rights activists let the monkey out of the cage ala '28 Days Later', but I assume something as catastrophic as the Maelstrom probably can't be blamed on one single monkey.

So what will we get to know? Will we have any indication as to any specific race being responsible for it's unleashing? Is it a natural phenom? Is it potentially a weapon unleashed upon the galaxy to cleanse it from a race of extra-galaxy beings? Maybe they need to make room for a new fast food chain? A little extreme perhaps, but removing all the beings likely to be potential critics and supplanting them with real home grown customers... profit. My silliness aside, I'm super curious. I'm assuming the various Maelstrom races have entire scientific stations, bases and systems devoted to finding answers and potentially saving the rest of the galaxy. I'm very interested in delving into that particular fluff, I love stuff like that.

I'm also curious about the cybel network. You may not be able to discuss any details here without revealing too much about it fluffwise, so I totally understand if it's not something you can answer without me going and getting the books atm (I don't have an ereader that's working, so until I get a new one, I get to wait), but is it a physically engineered network? A naturally occurring thing where it's only really a network in the description name, and more of a discovery that allowed beings to begin expansion in new ways? I'm not looking for actual science mind, just more descriptions for detail as I'm interested in how the galaxy was expanded into and the potential the network has for it's causal affect of the maelstrom since the maelstrom is described as advancing through the cybel network. Ohh, could a system potentially disconnect themselves from the network if it's been created in a physical/mechanical sense?

I'm happy and excited guys, hope some of this is actually discussable, I'm not sure what fluff is "too much" without getting into what will be available in the rulebook, novels, or just be too 'spoiler-ish'.

 yakface wrote:


But this post has reminded me that it can't hurt to put a little blurb in the rules that 'it is always okay to ignore the force construction rules and play a game with whatever models you want, so long as both players are open to it.'

Please, please do not put any ambiguity or wiggle room the rules to allow for the finger pointing of players at one another for not playing the game "the way it should be played". I left 40k for many reasons including the allowance of player split of "WAAC" or "cheese". I have full faith in your rules writing ability, just please save alternative game play modes for expansion releases or narrative campaigns.

My interest is piqued and I must say approaching Kickstarter the right way is going a long way to have me open my wallet. Thank you for showing such consideration towards your future player base.

I would say the initial model release isn't wowing me to a display level quality but making functional, customizable game pieces like this is an amazing first attempt. Price will always play into buy in, but I imagine that too will be on point.

Some rules questions (if answerable):

Based on my skimming, I'm assuming no true line of sight nonsense, yes?

What's terrain density looking like, ranging from a Warmachine tournament table to an Infinity city board?

The model count seems really low for such a large play space (4'×6'), what are the engagement ranges like? 40k (36"+ guns) or like other skirmish games of hovering around 12" guns?

Is there a speed profile on units?

Is there any movement/move/major action dictated by a random distance roll (outside of gaming standards for random deviation on certain ranged actions/attacks)?

Will there be a specifically supported tournament rules set much like Steamroller or Infinity?

Will units come with rules sheets/cards?

Will competitive play be designed around a unique list format? (two list, specialists, scenario list tailoring, etc?) If not, how are you handling the concept of game balance and poor match ups?

What is the expected faction depth be like in terms of unique units? Or is this a "too soon to tell" target?

Are you expecting to grow the game in terms of codex like updates or models for each faction style updates?


Lots of specific questions, I hope it's not burdensome. I'm okay with "we're still working on that" style answers.

I'm loving the art and will flip through the books when I get some free time to do so. I'll put some pennies back for a starter box.

 Phyrekzhogos wrote:
Awww, my single attempt at an assless chaps comment is gone. Oh well, got another question for ya'll:

Not sure whether the books will cover this, but I'm assuming the rulebook for the initial game might, but do we have any hints as to the actual origin of the Maelstrom? Personally, I'm a huge fan of blaming bad science experiments gone awry when angry animal rights activists let the monkey out of the cage ala '28 Days Later', but I assume something as catastrophic as the Maelstrom probably can't be blamed on one single monkey.

So what will we get to know? Will we have any indication as to any specific race being responsible for it's unleashing? Is it a natural phenom? Is it potentially a weapon unleashed upon the galaxy to cleanse it from a race of extra-galaxy beings? Maybe they need to make room for a new fast food chain? A little extreme perhaps, but removing all the beings likely to be potential critics and supplanting them with real home grown customers... profit. My silliness aside, I'm super curious. I'm assuming the various Maelstrom races have entire scientific stations, bases and systems devoted to finding answers and potentially saving the rest of the galaxy. I'm very interested in delving into that particular fluff, I love stuff like that.

I'm also curious about the cybel network. You may not be able to discuss any details here without revealing too much about it fluffwise, so I totally understand if it's not something you can answer without me going and getting the books atm (I don't have an ereader that's working, so until I get a new one, I get to wait), but is it a physically engineered network? A naturally occurring thing where it's only really a network in the description name, and more of a discovery that allowed beings to begin expansion in new ways? I'm not looking for actual science mind, just more descriptions for detail as I'm interested in how the galaxy was expanded into and the potential the network has for it's causal affect of the maelstrom since the maelstrom is described as advancing through the cybel network. Ohh, could a system potentially disconnect themselves from the network if it's been created in a physical/mechanical sense?

I'm happy and excited guys, hope some of this is actually discussable, I'm not sure what fluff is "too much" without getting into what will be available in the rulebook, novels, or just be too 'spoiler-ish'.

We'll definitely be exploring a bit more about the universe in the next few days and weeks, including a bit more about the cybel network and the Maelstrom, although some of the excellent questions you ask we don't want to reveal just yet - maybe not for a long while. We've always found that some of our favourite universes have a few little mysteries that you can puzzle over and debate, and the origin and true nature of the Maelstrom is something we're keeping close to our chests right now.

For now though, I do have something exciting to show you all. Here's a bit more of the fiction from our universe - an excerpt from Chapter Five of the first novel, Maelstrom's Edge: Faith. Epirian Sheriff Kyle Wynn and his partner are out in the desert, investigating disappearing terraforming robots, when they stumble across a Karist patrol. This little sample from the novel gives you the first glimpses of the Karist Troopers and Tempest Elites in action, as well as one of the elements of the release you haven't seen yet - and that we're most proud of - the menacing aliens known as Angels.

You can read the excerpt from Maelstrom's Edge: Faith on my website at the following link:

http://tomaslmartin.com/darrkenium/2015/4/15/read-an-excerpt-from-maelstroms-edge-faith