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Sunhero wrote:
Necrons and Demons and Imperial Knights the sky is eternally falling with you scrubs.

thunderfire cannons, drop pods, flying hive tyrants will all do well point for point against jest bikes

av 13 tanks Sicaran things like that
wolf star, plague drones ,screamer star ,grav star
half the things necrons have
any thing with a 2+ cover and any ability in close combat will wreck face.

Bike spam will do very well against bad players with bad lists but so what their are loads of lists that table non-competitive players by turn 4 this will be one of them.
any one of the above things will do well Against lists with majority of points in bikes.
Against tournament players with tournament lists it will just be one of the competitive options.

Drop pods can't beat Eldar as they are now.

I don't know if someone pointed this out already, but the new kit comes with the parts to make all 3 scatter lasers (or shuriken cannons, or w/e).



Just flipping through my WD64 and noticed that (on the side-bar that I didn't snap a photo of, it specifically says that you can upgrade each bike to scatter lasers or shuriken cannons, so there is zero ambiguity).

I feel sorry for orks =( They didn't get any OP toys

 TheKbob wrote:
Not to sound aged, but we should wait to see the full codex.

Worst case scenario, you don't play against Eldar and then it's nacho problem. However, then poor Eldar players are forever provolone.

It's a real Saga of pain, that's Cerneytain. Still, not a lot to Do-olin spillig our guts here. Guess people may be overestimating the Graviera of the situation though

 Talys wrote:
I don't know if someone pointed this out already, but the new kit comes with the parts to make all 3 scatter lasers (or shuriken cannons, or w/e).

Spoiler:

Just flipping through my WD64 and noticed that (on the side-bar that I didn't snap a photo of, it specifically says that you can upgrade each bike to scatter lasers or shuriken cannons, so there is zero ambiguity).

So GW finally gets around to giving us weapon options in a kit which are actually useful (hello crisis suits, one of each weapon type on sprue) and reflect how units are run (hello crisis suits and two of same weapon type on model) and they start with the crazy overpowered troop choice that is going to seriously dent any remaining semblance of balance first

So you definitely can give every guy a scatter laser. It being a typo was the last hope and that's been dashed.

I'm more surprised they give you enough scatter lasers in the box...

So it would seem the only counter to this would be blast markers and getting into assault for the jetbikes, a feat easier said than done

They really have outdone themselves this time.

 Great White wrote:
So it would seem the only counter to this would be blast markers and getting into assault for the jetbikes, a feat easier said than done

Same way people dealt with bikes before.

Lots of ignore cover and jink denying tactics ahoy.

Also did the 3+ armor save thing roll over to the new bikes?

Ugg, this makes the bug side of my brain hurt. Man I cannot wait for the new nid book...

Honestly though, if this is the trend, then as a Tau player I FEAR what buffs may be given to them

 Desubot wrote:

 Great White wrote:
So it would seem the only counter to this would be blast markers and getting into assault for the jetbikes, a feat easier said than done

Same way people dealt with bikes before.

Lots of ignore cover and jink denying tactics ahoy.

Also did the 3+ armor save thing roll over to the new bikes?

Yep, still 3+

 Talys wrote:
I don't know if someone pointed this out already, but the new kit comes with the parts to make all 3 scatter lasers (or shuriken cannons, or w/e).



Just flipping through my WD64 and noticed that (on the side-bar that I didn't snap a photo of, it specifically says that you can upgrade each bike to scatter lasers or shuriken cannons, so there is zero ambiguity).

Those muensters.

 ImAGeek wrote:

 Desubot wrote:

 Great White wrote:
So it would seem the only counter to this would be blast markers and getting into assault for the jetbikes, a feat easier said than done

Same way people dealt with bikes before.

Lots of ignore cover and jink denying tactics ahoy.

Also did the 3+ armor save thing roll over to the new bikes?

Yep, still 3+

Man that never made sense to me.

Why both a +1 t and 3+ save :/

O well. Prepare Thy Basilisk artillery carriage with orders and the hell turkeys STAT!

Have bikes ever had such devastating firepower, at such range? I mean, Grav-Bikes need to be within 18", at 33% more expensive per model. Plasma and Multi-Meltas top out at 24", and can even then only flat-out another 12".

JB have way more range, way more shots, comparable ability to harm all but Termies [who are never going to catch them anyhow...] and they can move twice as far in a single turn as Marine bikes can. Further, they can make a move in the assault phase to play peek-a-boo, so you can't even realistically rely on return firepower... at that 36" range.

Yes. There are units that can burn them down. Helldrakes, for example. Drakes that can keep them in firing range for exactly 1 turn before they can't keep them in their fire arc. Really, they're good-to-amazing against 90% of units, while maybe 10% of units are even capable of potentially harming them back. What few units they aren't good at, will likely be sorted out quickly by Wraith Units or Dragons, or Serpents. It's one unit out of the Dex, but does anyone really think the rest of the dex will be total garbage?

Basilisks, that might apply damage 40% of the time, of which half will be jinked / cover saved if they're in cover. Even then, spread out you'll likely only hit 2 or 3 per turn. And a Bassie isn't going to survive even one turn of being shot at by even 5 bikes, cover saves or no.

 ImAGeek wrote:
So you definitely can give every guy a scatter laser. It being a typo was the last hope and that's been dashed.

I'm more surprised they give you enough scatter lasers in the box...

I'm not, the sprues that they used to use were one for each bike, I imagine it would be pretty easy to shift things around to accommodate the new weapons.

 Frozocrone wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:
So you definitely can give every guy a scatter laser. It being a typo was the last hope and that's been dashed.

I'm more surprised they give you enough scatter lasers in the box...

I'm not, the sprues that they used to use were one for each bike, I imagine it would be pretty easy to shift things around to accommodate the new weapons.

They're whole new bikes, the old sprues have nothing to do with these. Not sure what you're saying... I'm not surprised there was room on the sprue for the weapons, but GW rarely give you every weapon to make every combination. You usually get like one of each (as with the Skitarii).

Honestly I'm not particularly worried. 27 points for a t4 3+ save model. Sure they will get a good volley and definitely kill something but then they will die just as quickly to any sort of return fire.

Greggy wrote:
Honestly I'm not particularly worried. 27 points for a t4 3+ save model. Sure they will get a good volley and definitely kill something but then they will die just as quickly to any sort of return fire.

You cannot underestimate there insane mobility and range though.
not to mention there jump shoot jump.

Greggy wrote:
Honestly I'm not particularly worried. 27 points for a t4 3+ save model. Sure they will get a good volley and definitely kill something but then they will die just as quickly to any sort of return fire.

Yeah, but with their movement and range and number of shots, they could devastate a large amount of your army, so you wouldn't have a lot of shots back

Greggy wrote:
Honestly I'm not particularly worried. 27 points for a t4 3+ save model. Sure they will get a good volley and definitely kill something but then they will die just as quickly to any sort of return fire.

Being able to sit 36" back, take advantage of Jink, and redeploy just about anywhere on the board in a single turn is going to make these pretty insane.

Also bear in mind they might have a bunch of models with strD weapons (or potentially strD) so you have to prioritise targets, it's not like they're just gonna have the Jetbikes.

 ImAGeek wrote:
Also bear in mind they might have a bunch of models with strD weapons (or potentially strD) so you have to prioritise targets, it's not like they're just gonna have the Jetbikes.

I really hope that's a typo, because if it's not then a list with both would have no counter

The few things that survive 160 S6 shots would have problems against a few D shots, yes.

 Great White wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:
Also bear in mind they might have a bunch of models with strD weapons (or potentially strD) so you have to prioritise targets, it's not like they're just gonna have the Jetbikes.

I really hope that's a typo, because if it's not then a list with both would have no counter

Yeah hopefully. Although look how that turned out with the JBs haha.

Greggy wrote:
Honestly I'm not particularly worried. 27 points for a t4 3+ save model. Sure they will get a good volley and definitely kill something but then they will die just as quickly to any sort of return fire.

Except it's a T4 3+ save model with 36" range and JSJ. Basic weapons are mostly limited to 24" range, so only your big guns can even attempt to shoot at them. All those bolters/plasma guns/etc might as well not exist except as meatshields for the heavy weapon. So the real comparison with MEQ troops is a 27 point jetbike with a heavy weapon vs. a ~100 point 5-wound marine with a heavy weapon.

Orks! Lets attack them with.....uh......Lootas?

Charge them..with.....?

Not that our HS slot was any more contested for use.

Looks like Eldar finally got a gun to fight that terribly OP Green Tide list.

I mean the only way to counter the jet bikes is armor, or drop pods with some shooty units in them

 Great White wrote:
I mean the only way to counter the jet bikes is armor, or drop pods with some shooty units in them

Or your own jetbikes

Then it's just down to who goes first.

 Great White wrote:
I mean the only way to counter the jet bikes is armor, or drop pods with some shooty units in them

There are a few other options. Tau with their ability to ignore cover should be able to kill them reasonably well, and IG artillery can hurt them if the table has enough LOS-blocking terrain to hide the big guns behind. Conventional tanks are probably the worst counter because D-weapon spam is the other half of the Eldar army and that turns AV 13-14 into a spectacular waste of points.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Great White wrote:
I mean the only way to counter the jet bikes is armor, or drop pods with some shooty units in them

There are a few other options. Tau with their ability to ignore cover should be able to kill them reasonably well, and IG artillery can hurt them if the table has enough LOS-blocking terrain to hide the big guns behind. Conventional tanks are probably the worst counter because D-weapon spam is the other half of the Eldar army and that turns AV 13-14 into a spectacular waste of points.

Well this is hoping that d weaponry is a typo