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Requizen wrote:

 Purifier wrote:

Requizen wrote:
not spent time bitching that I can spend thinking about strategems and modeling.

...and make it clear to people that you will not be bitching.

Just as you're making it clear to people that you think bitching is the best and in fact only course of action in your mind.

Dat butt hurt though.

After this thread, and another on this forum, I'm starting to think the supporters of GW don't play in competitive meta's.

Yeah the butt hurt over Eldar is above 9000. It's hysterical imagining the agitation these people are putting themselves through though.

Akiasura wrote:

Requizen wrote:

 Purifier wrote:

Requizen wrote:
not spent time bitching that I can spend thinking about strategems and modeling.

...and make it clear to people that you will not be bitching.

Just as you're making it clear to people that you think bitching is the best and in fact only course of action in your mind.

Dat butt hurt though.

After this thread, and another on this forum, I'm starting to think the supporters of GW don't play in competitive meta's.

There's no butthurt. I don't play Eldar. I said frankly that the release is too powerful and that it shouldn't happen, and honestly I think GW did a stupid with this.

But the answer isn't turning to someone and telling them you won't play with their little plastic men because you're upset about it. And that's what this whole thread is.

Purifier has had a smartass reply to nearly every post on this page of the thread. Bitching and complaining isn't going to fix anything about this, GW is not concerned with your whining. Refusing to play against Eldar players isn't going to fix anything, it's just going to make you look like an elitist donkey-cave who acts like a child when confronted with something he/she doesn't like. I hope you don't attend tournaments, because your "I hate Eldar and refuse to play them" agenda is going to cause you to be wasting your entry fee. Eldar aren't going to be banned from tournaments, you're going to whine, waste $10 entering, you're going to get put up against an Eldar player and refuse to play them? I doubt that.

People that think like this are, and always have been, a cancer on the gaming community. gak is not going to be as bad as you're making it out to be, especially since you've not played against it or with it yet.

(P.S.: I do NOT like my expletives being changed into words like "donkey-cave", and "gak", these words aren't nearly as appealing as the expletives I've used.)

Akiasura wrote:

After this thread, and another on this forum, I'm starting to think the supporters of GW don't play in competitive meta's.

Maybe they don't? Not too farfetched to think a lot of people enjoy playing less competitive games, or avoiding LGS's all together. One group I play with meets at each others houses, has a few beers and rolls with some questionably effective lists.

It's possible to enjoy the hobby and never see a competitive list. I think that's what the "GW supporters" (really? are we not all talking about playing the same game, thus supporting GW?) might be enjoying.

There is a difference between refusing to play an Eldar player and refusing to play an Eldar player that is running 5 squads of 10x Scatter Laser jet bikes + 2 farseers on jet bikes. Just like there is a difference between refusing a game against an IG player that brought 1 Knight versus a player that brought 5 knights. In both cases, I'll gladly play the former, and will politely refuse the latter. I'll shake the man's hand and wish him good luck in his next game, but I won't play him.

I get to play once per month to once per two months. At most. I'm not going to throw away what could be my only chance to play for 6 weeks on some power gamer bologna.

I frequent a certain FB group that has one guy that thinks that same way, Clamclaw. He is ultra competitive and feels that all Warhammer players should see things this way. People have attempted explaining to him that competitive players are the minority of GWs customer base, which is why they don't take the worries of competitive players into account when designing things. People like this just won't accept this way of thinking, so this is really all pointless and I vote the thread be locked for troll.

 clamclaw wrote:

Akiasura wrote:

After this thread, and another on this forum, I'm starting to think the supporters of GW don't play in competitive meta's.

Maybe they don't? Not too farfetched to think a lot of people enjoy playing less competitive games, or avoiding LGS's all together. One group I play with meets at each others houses, has a few beers and rolls with some questionably effective lists.

It's possible to enjoy the hobby and never see a competitive list. I think that's what the "GW supporters" (really? are we not all talking about playing the same game, thus supporting GW?) might be enjoying.

If you play that way, it's fine. It just makes it very difficult to comment on why someone is upset about a very competitive book coming out in a very competitive meta.
So you get people who play casually commenting on people who have competitive metas, and getting very angry about it, when they don't understand the difference in the meta at all.

In this very thread, I had someone who said Eldar have never been a great army.
It turns out his/her meta has never run ANY competitive list from any edition, so they really don't know what they are talking about.

My meta is very competitive. A lot of us have played a video game competitively at some point in our lives, and a few of us used to play 40k competitively in the earlier editions. WMH is taking off here because of that. We only have a few people who are modelers (though one of them, the best one, is also the most competitive player out of all of us).
It makes getting into 40k difficult.


By GW supporter, I meant the people who feel to post angry insults at people who have anything negative to say about the game. I haven't supported GW in years, though I own over 20k worth of models. Most of my friends own over 10k and haven't bought anything in a while.

Edit,
And right after you clamclaw, we have someone who makes an assumption about my way of thinking and vaguely insults me. Case in point.

 Chosen of Malal wrote:
I frequent a certain FB group that has one guy that thinks that same way, Clamclaw. He is ultra competitive and feels that all Warhammer players should see things this way. People have attempted explaining to him that competitive players are the minority of GWs customer base, which is why they don't take the worries of competitive players into account when designing things. People like this just won't accept this way of thinking, so this is really all pointless and I vote the thread be locked for troll.

It's difficult to demonstrate that competitive players are a minority or not, since there's absolute no data on this issue.

It can however be demonstrated whether GW take the worries of an players into account: AFAIK there's no budget for any market research in their reports. As such, the only way they could be aware of what players think is if their emloyees lurk around 3rd party forums in their free time.

Requizen wrote:

 Purifier wrote:

Requizen wrote:
not spent time bitching that I can spend thinking about strategems and modeling.

...and make it clear to people that you will not be bitching.

Just as you're making it clear to people that you think bitching is the best and in fact only course of action in your mind.

I have nowhere said that my time is too good for it. You have. I'm just pointing out the irony of making out like my side must be doing nothing with our lives to have time to reply here, but you for some reason manage to both post on a forum *and* have a life.

 Chosen of Malal wrote:
GW is not concerned with your whining

And I'm not concerned with yours, yet you do it anyway. How are you any different?

 Chosen of Malal wrote:
I do NOT like my expletives being changed into words like "donkey-cave", and "gak", these words aren't nearly as appealing as the expletives I've used.

Not surprised in the least that you feel that.

If GW were concerned with competitive play they wouldn't have stepped away from hosting their own. That's all the data you need. They are simply unconcerned with the complains of competitive players.

Which is crazy. With their financials in decline they should be reaching out to anyone willing to give them money to turn things around.

 Chosen of Malal wrote:
If GW were concerned with competitive play they wouldn't have stepped away from hosting their own. That's all the data you need. They are simply unconcerned with the complains of competitive players.

I was under the impression that they stepped away from hosting their own because they weren't making a direct profit off of them any longer. Not a lot of people showed up the last few before they started to shut them down.

That's more of a chick or egg? argument though.



It's not really data. If GW gave a reason, we could say that it's most likely how they feel. They haven't.
However, their lack of playtesting and rule quality does suggest that they don't care about the competitive scene at all.
But one could make the argument that this is hurting their revenue. It'd be an inference rather then something that's right there in black and white, but you could certainly argue it.

 Purifier wrote:

Requizen wrote:

 Purifier wrote:

Requizen wrote:
not spent time bitching that I can spend thinking about strategems and modeling.

...and make it clear to people that you will not be bitching.

Just as you're making it clear to people that you think bitching is the best and in fact only course of action in your mind.

I have nowhere said that my time is too good for it. You have. I'm just pointing out the irony of making out like my side must be doing nothing with our lives to have time to reply here, but you for some reason manage to both post on a forum *and* have a life.

Where did I say you don't have a life? Don't put words into another person's mouth to try and play the victim card. We're both posting on a forum about a miniatures game and (presumably) spend a similar amount of time playing and doing the hobby. We have an equal amount of life/no life.

I'm just saying that you're choosing to use your time to be vitriolic and talk about how the only way to play the game is to remove all the things you don't like. I choose not to use my posting time like that. I've already posted for both my Daemon and Necron armies on what I think I can do to fight against Scatterbikes and Wraithknights, rather than using those posts to just say "ban it because I think it's too good".

 Chosen of Malal wrote:
GW is not concerned with your whining

And I'm not concerned with yours, yet you do it anyway. How are you any different?

This is the vitriol I'm talking about. This is a forum, everyone is allowed to post their opinions.

BUT, the truth of the matter is, posting online and saying that you won't play against Eldar because imba isn't going to make GW change anything. They don't care. They literally do not read your posts or this thread. And even if they did, they wouldn't care about it.

You can not care about Chosen's post. That doesn't make it any less true.

 Chosen of Malal wrote:
If GW were concerned with competitive play they wouldn't have stepped away from hosting their own. That's all the data you need. They are simply unconcerned with the complains of competitive players.

they just want profit, if this means to overpower eldar so every 1 buy em? fine by them and congratz on goal, next gonna be random Tau (for example) and same ordeal will happen and they just win win, for those who rage and cry and quit game there will be several more to fill their spot, its like killing tyranids, you take 1 out 10 are ready to fill the spot.

Requizen wrote:

 Purifier wrote:

Requizen wrote:

 Purifier wrote:

Requizen wrote:
not spent time bitching that I can spend thinking about strategems and modeling.

...and make it clear to people that you will not be bitching.

Just as you're making it clear to people that you think bitching is the best and in fact only course of action in your mind.

I have nowhere said that my time is too good for it. You have. I'm just pointing out the irony of making out like my side must be doing nothing with our lives to have time to reply here, but you for some reason manage to both post on a forum *and* have a life.

Where did I say you don't have a life? Don't put words into another person's mouth to try and play the victim card. We're both posting on a forum about a miniatures game and (presumably) spend a similar amount of time playing and doing the hobby. We have an equal amount of life/no life.

I'm just saying that you're choosing to use your time to be vitriolic and talk about how the only way to play the game is to remove all the things you don't like. I choose not to use my posting time like that. I've already posted for both my Daemon and Necron armies on what I think I can do to fight against Scatterbikes and Wraithknights, rather than using those posts to just say "ban it because I think it's too good".

 Chosen of Malal wrote:
GW is not concerned with your whining

And I'm not concerned with yours, yet you do it anyway. How are you any different?

This is the vitriol I'm talking about. This is a forum, everyone is allowed to post their opinions.

BUT, the truth of the matter is, posting online and saying that you won't play against Eldar because imba isn't going to make GW change anything. They don't care. They literally do not read your posts or this thread. And even if they did, they wouldn't care about it.

You can not care about Chosen's post. That doesn't make it any less true.

Oh the irony.

Nowhere have I said that I won't play against Eldar for any reason.
Nowhere have I said that I "think bitching is the best and in fact only course of action"
You said I was "spending time bitching that I could use thinking up strategems" while you quoted a post defending Galanur's stance, who said "simply they dont have nothing else in life to keep em busy enough and have to sign these pathetic topic subjects."

I don't think it's completely unreasonable to assume that when defending his post you agree with it?

I don't think I'm being vitriolic in the least. The first comment from Chosen atleast in the past few pages is a direct attack on me. And I'm vitriolic in responding to it? Get off me.

My statement was not in a whining context, it was informative. GW doesn't care about you whining. You can not care about my 'whining' all you like. It won't change the fact that that GW still doesn't care.

 Purifier wrote:

Requizen wrote:

 Purifier wrote:

Requizen wrote:

 Purifier wrote:

Requizen wrote:
not spent time bitching that I can spend thinking about strategems and modeling.

...and make it clear to people that you will not be bitching.

Just as you're making it clear to people that you think bitching is the best and in fact only course of action in your mind.

I have nowhere said that my time is too good for it. You have. I'm just pointing out the irony of making out like my side must be doing nothing with our lives to have time to reply here, but you for some reason manage to both post on a forum *and* have a life.

Where did I say you don't have a life? Don't put words into another person's mouth to try and play the victim card. We're both posting on a forum about a miniatures game and (presumably) spend a similar amount of time playing and doing the hobby. We have an equal amount of life/no life.

I'm just saying that you're choosing to use your time to be vitriolic and talk about how the only way to play the game is to remove all the things you don't like. I choose not to use my posting time like that. I've already posted for both my Daemon and Necron armies on what I think I can do to fight against Scatterbikes and Wraithknights, rather than using those posts to just say "ban it because I think it's too good".

 Chosen of Malal wrote:
GW is not concerned with your whining

And I'm not concerned with yours, yet you do it anyway. How are you any different?

This is the vitriol I'm talking about. This is a forum, everyone is allowed to post their opinions.

BUT, the truth of the matter is, posting online and saying that you won't play against Eldar because imba isn't going to make GW change anything. They don't care. They literally do not read your posts or this thread. And even if they did, they wouldn't care about it.

You can not care about Chosen's post. That doesn't make it any less true.

Oh the irony.

Nowhere have I said that I won't play against Eldar for any reason.
Nowhere have I said that I "think bitching is the best and in fact only course of action"
You said I was "spending time bitching that I could use thinking up strategems" while you quoted a post defending Galanur's stance, who said "simply they dont have nothing else in life to keep em busy enough and have to sign these pathetic topic subjects."

I don't think it's completely unreasonable to assume that when defending his post you agree with it?

I don't think I'm being vitriolic in the least. The first comment from Chosen atleast in the past few pages is a direct attack on me. And I'm vitriolic in responding to it? Get off me.

I don't think it's completely unreasonable to assume that when defending a thread named "Ban Eldar from All Competitive Play" that you agree with it? Your posts in this thread have only been lambasting people who aren't complaining about Eldar/GW and painting yourself a victim for doing so. I don't know how else to see you other than what your posts have been..

Requizen wrote:

 Purifier wrote:

Requizen wrote:

 Purifier wrote:

Requizen wrote:

 Purifier wrote:

Requizen wrote:
not spent time bitching that I can spend thinking about strategems and modeling.

...and make it clear to people that you will not be bitching.

Just as you're making it clear to people that you think bitching is the best and in fact only course of action in your mind.

I have nowhere said that my time is too good for it. You have. I'm just pointing out the irony of making out like my side must be doing nothing with our lives to have time to reply here, but you for some reason manage to both post on a forum *and* have a life.

Where did I say you don't have a life? Don't put words into another person's mouth to try and play the victim card. We're both posting on a forum about a miniatures game and (presumably) spend a similar amount of time playing and doing the hobby. We have an equal amount of life/no life.

I'm just saying that you're choosing to use your time to be vitriolic and talk about how the only way to play the game is to remove all the things you don't like. I choose not to use my posting time like that. I've already posted for both my Daemon and Necron armies on what I think I can do to fight against Scatterbikes and Wraithknights, rather than using those posts to just say "ban it because I think it's too good".

 Chosen of Malal wrote:
GW is not concerned with your whining

And I'm not concerned with yours, yet you do it anyway. How are you any different?

This is the vitriol I'm talking about. This is a forum, everyone is allowed to post their opinions.

BUT, the truth of the matter is, posting online and saying that you won't play against Eldar because imba isn't going to make GW change anything. They don't care. They literally do not read your posts or this thread. And even if they did, they wouldn't care about it.

You can not care about Chosen's post. That doesn't make it any less true.

Oh the irony.

Nowhere have I said that I won't play against Eldar for any reason.
Nowhere have I said that I "think bitching is the best and in fact only course of action"
You said I was "spending time bitching that I could use thinking up strategems" while you quoted a post defending Galanur's stance, who said "simply they dont have nothing else in life to keep em busy enough and have to sign these pathetic topic subjects."

I don't think it's completely unreasonable to assume that when defending his post you agree with it?

I don't think I'm being vitriolic in the least. The first comment from Chosen atleast in the past few pages is a direct attack on me. And I'm vitriolic in responding to it? Get off me.

I don't think it's completely unreasonable to assume that when defending a thread named "Ban Eldar from All Competitive Play" that you agree with it? Your posts in this thread have only been lambasting people who aren't complaining about Eldar/GW and painting yourself a victim for doing so. I don't know how else to see you other than what your posts have been..

Just ignore the troll, we got plenty of em out even on our gaming lists and this 1 tries to come out as a victim " as always"
I for one despite I dont like some eldar entry I did enjoyed alot that special touch they gave to those banshees. last edition and current one I´ve used them regardless and now they gonna get even better, im fine with it as finally they gonna get something usefull...
Scatterbikes and such...all I care is that I know my oponent got enough weapons ap3 ignore cover or powers to do so that will blow these ones fast if they want to.
Wraith D weapons... handle it, D weapons on these have limited use, or its shoots without blasts like the big creep wraithknight, or very short range on the guard.

Im quite surprised on this as we´ve been eating our fill up with shadowswords, imperial knights, revenant titans and void grenades and people are just handling them fine.

Has anyone made a hitler downfall video talking about the new elder codex? I know he was depressed about the tyranid codex a few years back.

Requizen wrote:

I don't think it's completely unreasonable to assume that when defending a thread named "Ban Eldar from All Competitive Play" that you agree with it? Your posts in this thread have only been lambasting people who aren't complaining about Eldar/GW and painting yourself a victim for doing so. I don't know how else to see you other than what your posts have been..

No, you're right. If that had been the case then that wouldn't have been unreasonable. Except I haven't. I responded to a post saying the BRB being only half written or poorly written is fine even if the rules aren't any good.

So again your assumptions are simply wrong and you're putting words in my mouth. You yourself claimed that to be a great sin. And it's that irony I have been arguing since. The irony of everything you've been shouting.

Someone tells me I should "stop whining" and I tell him the same. You then argue I need to let him talk because it's a free forum. But what, his telling me to shut up is different... How?

 AnomanderRake wrote:

 koooaei wrote:

 Robisagg wrote:

 chazz huggins wrote:
I don't want Eldar gone I just want them all wimpy and soft like their supposed to be.

Except they're not. They have ancient, super powerful weaponry. They're a T3 army at its base, but their strength is in their mobility and weaponry.

I can't believe the kneejerk reactions to this codex. I for one am excited for the challenge.

On tabletop, they're t4, t6 and t8 army, however. With just a handful of t3 guyz in serpents.

Blame the game. So is everyone. When was the last time you saw non-vehicle models deployed on the table that weren't Artillery, Bikes, or Necrons?

I played against Tyranids and Jump BA recently. Does that count?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Akiasura wrote:
When people enter warmachine, we tell them it'll take 40-50 games before they start winning against anyone but a completely new player.

Yeah, because Warmachine has varying Objectives besides Caster Kill...

I don't think I'm being vitriolic in the least. The first comment from Chosen atleast in the past few pages is a direct attack on me. And I'm vitriolic in responding to it? Get off me.

Actually, my post was in response to the thread at large, you just made the assumption I was speaking directly to you. The only thing I said that made mention to you was that you had managed to come up with a smartass reply to nearly every post on said page.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:

 koooaei wrote:

 Robisagg wrote:

 chazz huggins wrote:
I don't want Eldar gone I just want them all wimpy and soft like their supposed to be.

Except they're not. They have ancient, super powerful weaponry. They're a T3 army at its base, but their strength is in their mobility and weaponry.

I can't believe the kneejerk reactions to this codex. I for one am excited for the challenge.

On tabletop, they're t4, t6 and t8 army, however. With just a handful of t3 guyz in serpents.

Blame the game. So is everyone. When was the last time you saw non-vehicle models deployed on the table that weren't Artillery, Bikes, or Necrons?

I played against Tyranids and Jump BA recently. Does that count?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Akiasura wrote:
When people enter warmachine, we tell them it'll take 40-50 games before they start winning against anyone but a completely new player.

Yeah, because Warmachine has varying Objectives besides Caster Kill...

They do, it is called scenario

In said scenario does killing the caster still result in instant victory?

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

Akiasura wrote:
When people enter warmachine, we tell them it'll take 40-50 games before they start winning against anyone but a completely new player.

Yeah, because Warmachine has varying Objectives besides Caster Kill...

What are you saying here? i love the different objectives and mission design in Warmachine.

 Chosen of Malal wrote:
In said scenario does killing the caster still result in instant victory?

Yes?
In maelstorm missions, does tabling your opponent result in victory?

I don't see your point here.

 Chosen of Malal wrote:

I don't think I'm being vitriolic in the least. The first comment from Chosen atleast in the past few pages is a direct attack on me. And I'm vitriolic in responding to it? Get off me.

Actually, my post was in response to the thread at large, you just made the assumption I was speaking directly to you. The only thing I said that made mention to you was that you had managed to come up with a smartass reply to nearly every post on said page.

Uh, yeah, that's what I was talking about. You called me out by name. You can't then say it's not for me. Stop being ridiculous.

Akiasura wrote:

 Chosen of Malal wrote:
In said scenario does killing the caster still result in instant victory?

Yes?
In maelstorm missions, does tabling your opponent result in victory?

I don't see your point here.

A better analogy would be Slay the Warlord resulting in victory.

 Morachi wrote:
To be fair, we've seen a number of armies have their few years in the past as well. At the current rate armies are getting new codex books released, others should come up to par in the near future - or at least the duration of power should cycle more frequently at the very least.

Maybe you missed it, but we already have several armies brought to "up to par" for 7th edition. Only Necrons and Eldar went over the top. But hey, let's wait for two years, then they will surely fix those armies! In the meanwhile we can just adapt and learn to play because it's all about skill.